PDA

View Full Version : Wanted: IBM 5160 bios



JoJo_ReloadeD
April 25th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I'm trying to resurrect a xt-clone board that is (I think) the same as the 5160 board.

Its bios eprom has died, so I need a bios image to program a eprom to make it work. Its a 27c64, so it'll be a 8kb image.

Does anybody has this bios and willing to help ? :)

Thanks ;)

modem7
April 25th, 2008, 03:00 PM
There are 5160 ROM images at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/bios.htm

You'll see that the images are larger than 8k.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?t=9693 shows the layout of the three revisions.

If an 8KB chip is all you can use in the motherboard then I suggest that you try the last 8K of U18 of the first BIOS revision.
You won't have BASIC but you wouldn't have had it in your faulty BIOS.

For this to work, the 8K BIOS in your motherboard must be addressed at FE00:0 I'm sure that must be the case because the power-on reset vector is always at FFFF:0

On power up, the BIOS will calculate the 8 bit checksum of the BIOS, and if not 00, will report a 'F800 ROM' error. The BIOS is programmed to read the 32K from F800:0 whereas you want it just to read the 8K from FE00:0. So this is a potential problem (which with effort can be overcome if needed).

For now, adjust the last byte in the 8K BIOS so that the 8 bit checksum becomes 00. If your motherboard is such that zeros are read from 24K block at address F800:0, then the overall 8 bit checksum (32K at F800:0) will be 00 and the BIOS will be 'happy'.

You may see a 'F600 ROM' error because the BIOS will be looking at the checksum of the 8K block at F600:0. Again, if your motherboard is such that zeros are read from that block of memory, the BIOS will be 'happy'.

Give it go and see what happens. If you see a ROM error, then I can doctor the BIOS for you so that it skips the checksum checks.

It may be far easier for someone else here to provide a copy of the 8K sized BIOS from their clone XT motherboard. I might have one, but it will take a bit of searching.

modem7
April 25th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Another possible problem in using the 5160 BIOS. The 5160 BIOS is designed for an XT running at 4.77 MHz. Parts of the 5160 BIOS may become unreliable on XT clones running at a higher speed.
Why? In the 5160 BIOS are bits of code like the following.

OUT CMD_PORT,AL ; send command
NOP ; short delay
IN AL,STATUS_PORT ; fetch status

The actual delay period resulting from the NOP might be adequate on a 4.77 MHz 5160, but not on a machine running at 8 MHz.

MikeS
April 25th, 2008, 04:04 PM
I'm trying to resurrect a xt-clone board that is (I think) the same as the 5160 board.

Its bios eprom has died, so I need a bios image to program a eprom to make it work. Its a 27c64, so it'll be a 8kb image.

Does anybody has this bios and willing to help ? :)

Thanks ;)
-------
Here's a Phoenix XT clone BIOS V2.51 dated 01/21/87, for a Micro Universe board V1.0B.

Put your name/model at 06B8H if you wish (and adjust the checksum accordingly).

Good luck,

mike

Plasma
April 26th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Here is the BIOS I am using in my XT: http://www.phatcode.net/downloads.php?id=101

It's a modification I made of the "generic" turbo XT BIOS floating around, with some more features and a nicer bootup screen.

Anonymous Coward
April 27th, 2008, 02:44 AM
Ha, that's great. I've been looking for the Phoenix 2.51 BIOS for a while. Thanks for posting. The Turbo XT 2.0 BIOS looks interesting too. I'll be sure to try both of them out. Do any of you guys have a very late copy of AWARD XT BIOS? I think the version I am looking for is 3.1.

JoJo_ReloadeD
May 2nd, 2008, 04:02 AM
Thanks to all, seeing the bios size of the 5160 I think my board is a 5150 clone (It uses a 27c64 to store the bios, 8k image). So I flashed the 5150 bios, and this happened:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8350/hpim3645ds6.jpg

Alive at last! But it's complaining about some missing roms, the basic ones, so I flashed it too...

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/732/hpim3647rh0.jpg

And got it working, but there's one issue. It can't boot.

I've connected it several floppy controllers and yes, the floppy led blinks, but it does not try to boot the disk, it goes directly to basic.

It only has one set of dip switch, that I've configured properly (I think), colour monitor 80x25, no coprocessor, more than 256k (I have 640k) and one floppy disk.

Here's some photos of the board, do you think it's a 5150 clone??

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2027/hpim3652mi2.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9752/hpim3650tv6.jpg

Later I'll test the phoenix bios, I'm short of 27c64's :) but I'd rather prefer using the 5150 one :cool:

P.S.

Everytime I turn it on it tells me a 131 error, that is a 'Cassette wrap test failed.', do you think this would be the reason of not booting ?

dongfeng
May 2nd, 2008, 05:17 AM
That's an XT Clone board! The 5150 had 5 ISA slots, whereas the XT had 6. I think I have one of the same boards :)

The errors are probably caused by the 5150 BIOS.

It probably has a 'turbo' mode, 4.77/8MHz if it is the same as mine. Going from memory I think mine has a Phoenix BIOS, but I'll be the end of the month until I can dig it out again (it's at my parents place). I'll try to dig out some pictures later, I am pretty sure I have some.

Here are the DIP switch settings for an XT:

http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vcf/xt/xtdips.gif

JoJo_ReloadeD
May 2nd, 2008, 05:40 AM
That's an XT Clone board! The 5150 had 5 ISA slots, whereas the XT had 6. I think I have one of the same boards :)

The errors are probably caused by the 5150 BIOS.

It probably has a 'turbo' mode, 4.77/8MHz if it is the same as mine. Going from memory I think mine has a Phoenix BIOS, but I'll be the end of the month until I can dig it out again (it's at my parents place). I'll try to dig out some pictures later, I am pretty sure I have some.

Here are the DIP switch settings for an XT:

http://www.howard81.co.uk/upload/vcf/xt/xtdips.gif

It has 8 isa slots, so it isn't a exact clone of a 5150 or 5160... it doesn't have turbo mode, only operates at 4,77, and its bios is the same size as the 5150, and yep, I've configured the dip switch following that info :)

dongfeng
May 2nd, 2008, 10:44 AM
Sorry, I mis-typed... XT is 8-slots!

MikeS
May 2nd, 2008, 11:09 AM
Since it has 8 normally-spaced slots and, more to the point, no cassette hardware, it's obviously an XT clone, so just exactly why do you insist on putting in a 5150 BIOS which is almost certain to be incompatible in some way?

Just curious: how many of you have ever seen a 5150 *clone*, i.e. complete with cassette hardware, non-standard slot spacing and BASIC?

m

modem7
May 2nd, 2008, 04:08 PM
Thanks to all, seeing the bios size of the 5160 I think my board is a 5150 clone (It uses a 27c64 to store the bios, 8k image).
Not necessarily. The Phoenix XT BIOS that was posted is 8K in size.


So I flashed the 5150 bios, and this happened:
The 5150 BIOS is expecting hardware found on the 5150 motherboard, such as a cassette port and a second set of switches. Your board has neither. That is why you are seeing the 'Cassette wrap test failed.' error.


Everytime I turn it on it tells me a 131 error, that is a 'Cassette wrap test failed.', do you think this would be the reason of not booting ?
No, that won't be why it is not booting.

If your board was a 5150 clone, I'm sure the engineers would have made it 100% compatible with the 5150 at the hardware level (as was the norm in those days). And so the lack of cassette port and lack of the second switch bank indicate to me that you have a clone 5160 board.

I suggest that use the posted Phoenix XT BIOS.

JoJo_ReloadeD
May 20th, 2008, 02:36 PM
I flashed the clone bios and worked like a charm! thanks to all! :D

lutiana
March 31st, 2009, 09:20 PM
Here is the BIOS I am using in my XT: http://www.phatcode.net/downloads.php?id=101

It's a modification I made of the "generic" turbo XT BIOS floating around, with some more features and a nicer bootup screen.

Would this BIOS work in an IBM 5160?

I read the instructions in the readme and I must admit I am clueless as to how one:
1. Backups the old BIOS (always a good thing to do)
2. Flashes the new BIOS onto the chip and
3. Which bios File to actually use.

Is there a place for step by step instructions on this?

Thanks in advance for the help.

modem7
March 31st, 2009, 10:42 PM
2. Flashes the new BIOS onto the chip
JoJo's use of "flashed" has mislead you.

For these old machines, the change of BIOS is done by removing the old BIOS chips (U18 and U19) and in their place putting in BIOS chips that contain the new BIOS code.
Where do you get new BIOS chips? eBay is a possibility, but quite a few forum members would create their own chips by using a device known as an 'EPROM burner' (or EPROM programmer).

lutiana
March 31st, 2009, 10:55 PM
JoJo's use of "flashed" has mislead you.

For these old machines, the change of BIOS is done by removing the old BIOS chips (U18 and U19) and in their place putting in BIOS chips that contain the new BIOS code.
Where do you get new BIOS chips? eBay is a possibility, but quite a few forum members would create their own chips by using a device known as an 'EPROM burner' (or EPROM programmer).

Ahh, had a feeling this was the case.

I don't know anyone with an EPROM burner, and based on what I remember that means I would need to get a blank chip to begin with, since there is only 1 E in that acronym.

The logical question becomes is it worth it? I guess as I get more into this I will find out.

lutiana
March 31st, 2009, 10:58 PM
...create their own chips by using a device known as an 'EPROM burner' (or EPROM programmer).


Would this do it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PCB5.0-Willem-EPROM-Programmer-PIC-BIOS,-Shipfrom-USA--_W0QQitemZ360111499741QQcmdZViewItem

Also, if I am asking this question should I be messing with this? I guess the worse that can happen here is I put the original BIOS chip back in the machine and go on my merry way.

modem7
March 31st, 2009, 11:41 PM
Would this do it?
Yes.
In the 'Device types supported' area of the description, you can see that the unit supports the 27256 (or 27C256) EPROMs required for the IBM 5160 motherboard. I have an earlier version of that burner.

For the IBM 5160 motherboard, the two blank 27256 EPROMs (or 27C256) you acquire will need to be rated at 200ns or faster. Most 27256 or 27C256 EPROMs rated at 200nS access time will have a "-20" at the end of the part number (e.g. M27C256B-20)

If you buy the EPROMs new or new-old-stock (NOS), they'll be in an erased state, however for future work, you may also want to consider the purchase of an EPROM eraser. I bought one of the EPROM erasers at eBay item 130269202777, mainly because of the low cost. Don't expect the timer to work perfectly. Because the unit contains a tube with filament (like a light bulb), there is a reasonably high risk of damage to the tube during transit. Mine survived the Hong Kong to Australia trip.

An alternative:

I'm sure that someone here in these forums (US based) will burn you a set of 27256 EPROMs for a low price.
Let us know if you want to try that.

Terry Yager
April 1st, 2009, 08:35 AM
I've got the chips and a burner. I'll just try burning 'em and (if successful), drop 'em in with the keyboard when I send it along. Just need someone to point me to the correct file(s) to put on 'em.

--T

lutiana
April 1st, 2009, 09:12 AM
...however for future work, you may also want to consider the purchase of an EPROM eraser.

Am I to understand that this EPROM programmer does not erase?


Because the unit contains a tube with filament (like a light bulb)

Am I correct in assuming that the eraser is using light to erase them?


Just need someone to point me to the correct file(s) to put on 'em.

I appreciate this, and will take you up on the offer. I am not sure if I want to try the modified bios in this post or the official IBM one, any suggestions?


There are 5160 ROM images at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/bios.htm and


Here is the BIOS I am using in my XT: http://www.phatcode.net/downloads.php?id=101

Ultimately I am eager to be able to do this myself, it would be fun to try to get right, and the programmer is not that pricey at all.

Terry Yager
April 1st, 2009, 09:46 AM
The EPROMs (Erasable Programmable ROM) are erased using UV (black) light. (The EEPROMs you alluded to before are Electrically Erasable PROMS, which can be reprogrammed in circuit).

The programmer is not expensive, and using it is not rocket science, so, by all means, grab one up to play around with (I just wanted to confirm that it works with the XT's chips before recommending purchasing it). Just practice a little before doing anything important, to familiarize yourself with the process. You'll be burning your own EPROMs in no time. I can send you a few blanked chips to practice on.

--T

lutiana
April 1st, 2009, 10:17 AM
The EPROMs (Erasable Programmable ROM) are erased using UV (black) light.

I thought I recalled something like this. Why would I buy an eraser from japan when I can get a UV light from the mall?



I can send you a few blanked chips to practice on.


I think I would prefer some pre-programmed chips to start. I can see myself using the EPROM programmer but not yet. I want to make sure that I can get the 5160 up and running with a 101-key keyboard first. So I'd want the latest BIOS programmed into them for now.

I can always erase them later and put something else on them, plus I found the chips online for a mere $4.50 each, so I'll buy some news ones at some point to mess with.

Plus as I go through the process of programming them later I will make a step by step wiki for our wiki (with photos etc).

Terry Yager
April 1st, 2009, 10:30 AM
I thought I recalled something like this. Why would I buy an eraser from japan when I can get a UV light from the mall?
The main argument for an eraser is that they have a timer that can be set for different chips. (the different types of chips take different amounts of exposure time to erase properly), and having the lamp pre-set for the correct distance from the chip for optimal performance. Using a homebrew setup will require some experimentation to get it right, and for the slight cost difference, you might as well go with the store-bought eraser.


Plus as I go through the process of programming them later I will make a step by step wiki for our wiki (with photos etc).

That'll work!

--T