PDA

View Full Version : Another Disasterous meeting with Mr Wabash



amouse
May 26th, 2008, 01:15 AM
I wish to receive everybody's sympathies ..

Sunday morning: 4 working floppy drives

Sunday evening, despite hard cleaning: 1 floppy drive.

The cause, the insertion of some Wabash floppies into my computers

A longer grumble may be read here (http://majzel.blogspot.com/2008/05/wabash-destroyer.html)


Regards marcus.

tezza
May 26th, 2008, 03:20 AM
Yep, had the same kind of thing with my System 80 about 6-7 months ago.

A few of those disks were Wabash too, come to think of it. I think the main problem was they had been left in a very hot environment (a loft under a tin roof) for years. They were very "sticky".

Tez

NobodyIsHere
May 26th, 2008, 04:11 AM
Marcus,
I have had nothing but bad luck with Wabash disks. They are notorious for exactly what you describe. Normally though I am able to recover the drives but it requires disassembly and manual cleaning of the head and rails. When the Wabash disks go bad, they tend to disintegrate and spread iron oxide all over the insides of the drive.

Condolences and best of luck in drive recovery.

Andrew Lynch

carlsson
May 26th, 2008, 04:20 AM
How ironic that the website you link to says the floppy disks are "tested to uncompromising quality", "superior durability" and "exceed industry standards".

By the way, what does "lifetime warranty" refer to? The floppy disk's or the user's lifetime? Perhaps you can sue them for damage on the floppy drives.

Dwight Elvey
May 26th, 2008, 06:32 AM
Hi
If it is the adhesive that has bled through the liner, you
might try cleaning with a little "GooGone". It is better
at cutting this goo than alcohol.
Be careful not to get the solvent near any glued parts.
and be careful to follow with a cleaning using alcohol.
I suspect that it would damage disk but I've not tried it.
For the disk, if you really need the info from them,
I've had good luck, removing the disk from the envelope,
placing it on a flat surface and cleaning with rubbing
alcohol and a swab. Use another cheap envelope without
liner to read later. If the drive is vertical, cut the top
of this envelope. If horizantal, cut the edge nearest
the latch. This will help to not accidentallly damage the
disk if it slips out.
Be vary careful handling the disk when it is out of the envelope.
It is easily bent or folded. That can't be fixed to easily.
Dwight

vwestlife
May 26th, 2008, 08:04 PM
Reminds me of my biggest mistake: accepting a shoebox full of Hewlett-Packard single-sided, single-density 3.5" disks as a gift, and attempting to format them as DS/DD 720 kB in DOS. I must've ruined at least three floppy drives doing that. These were very early 3.5" floppies, the kind where if you slide the shutter all the way open by hand, it locks open, and then you pinch the edge of the disk to snap it shut. This was for the first-generation 3.5" Sony floppy drives which did not have an automatic shutter open/close mechanism.

MikeS
May 26th, 2008, 09:05 PM
I wish to receive everybody's sympathies ..

Regards marcus.
---------
You've got mine!

m

tezza
June 21st, 2008, 12:14 AM
I just had another worrying encounter with old 5.25 inch floppies.

I booted up my IMB 5150 for a photo shoot for a project I'd been working through. I thought it would look nice showing Wordstar 3.3, so I dragged out an OLD WS disk (25 years old) and started to boot the disk. Yikes, the drive groaned, creaked and failed to load anything. Inspecting the disk there were two grooves (one each side) nicely carved in the media.

Oh Bugger!

Anyway, I dragged out my cleaning disk, and spun it for 20 seconds or so to clean the gunk I assumed was now clogging up the heads.

Then I tried to re-boot with a new disk. Nothing. Nothing AT ALL. Didn't even recognise the disk, just defaulted to cassette BASIC. Arrgg!! Had the gouging and crunching thrown the heads out of alignment??

Concern rapidy rising. No tools or skill available for a drive re-alignment.

Ok, let's not panic yet. Lets try the cleaning disk again. Another 20 seconds.

Ahh...hope!?

It now at least TRIES to read the disk but says bad sectors. One more go with the cleaning disk this time for about 40 seconds.

Now boots perfectly!

Whew!!

This is not the first time this has happed with old disks. I'm imaged them all. I should really toss them in case I get tempted again! It's not worth the hassel.

Tez

NobodyIsHere
June 21st, 2008, 05:06 AM
Hi,
I have had similar problems with old Tandon style drives. The only reliable method I've found to fix the problem is to remove the drive, pull up the controller PCB and clean the heads directly with isopropyl alcohol using a cotton swap. While you are in there use another cotton swab to lubricate the drive head rails using sewing machine oil.

Once the disk delaminates and spreads the oxide all over the insides of the drive it will lead to other failures and even more "screech of death" disk failures.

Remove any excess oil and let the heads dry out thoroughly for several minutes before using again.

Good luck with your project!

Andrew Lynch

mbbrutman
June 21st, 2008, 05:18 AM
I use the same technique, but I use a light machine oil with Teflon in it from Radio Shack. (It comes in a small dropper/tube that should last for ages.)

It is important to clean the rails thoroughly before lubricating them. After cleaning the rails and heads I've not had problems, and some of these drives were cleaned over 7 years ago.

Druid6900
June 21st, 2008, 11:57 AM
I just stick the small end of a double sided emery board into some liquid draino, shove it in between the heads and sand them suckers smooth.

Never have a problem with THAT drive again.






Ok, I'm just kidding. Don't try this.

On second thought, go ahead and try it. If you're THAT dumb, we deserve to get a laugh out of you :)

NobodyIsHere
June 21st, 2008, 01:03 PM
Somebody's been taking their evil pills again...

:-)

Andrew Lynch

mbbrutman
June 21st, 2008, 01:08 PM
Seems to be a pattern with him. Like he's bucking to be a moderator or something ... ;-0

MikeS
June 21st, 2008, 01:17 PM
Somebody's been taking their evil pills again...
:-)
Andrew Lynch
---
He IS evil, isn't he...

I mean, imagine suggesting an emery board (!!!) to clean the heads, when we all know that friction between head and disk is the real problem that destroys disks; The answer is a liberal application of heavy lithium grease (easily extracted from old LiIon batteries) on the head(s).

The caveat at the end of his message is valid though, and applies to this post as well.

m

NobodyIsHere
June 21st, 2008, 04:18 PM
Lithium grease... please...

Everyone knows you use chunky peanut butter.

:-)

Andrew Lynch

linemanduke
June 21st, 2008, 04:51 PM
no you clean the heads with spit on a piece of toilet pape

Druid6900
June 21st, 2008, 08:22 PM
Seems to be a pattern with him. Like he's bucking to be a moderator or something ... ;-0

Not even with gun to my head. Then I'd have to be responsible and not be any fun at all.

vwestlife
June 21st, 2008, 09:43 PM
I mean, imagine suggesting an emery board (!!!) to clean the heads, when we all know that friction between head and disk is the real problem that destroys disks; The answer is a liberal application of heavy lithium grease (easily extracted from old LiIon batteries) on the head(s).

The caveat at the end of his message is valid though, and applies to this post as well.
This reminds me of when I was reading the blog (before there was such a thing as a "blog") of a college-age kid who was restoring a 1967 Mercedes. The spark plugs were fouled due to the engine burning oil, and rather than replace the plugs, his solution was to grind the soot off the spark plugs with a bench grinder and then put them back in the engine. :eek:

Druid6900
June 22nd, 2008, 08:35 AM
Lithium grease... please...

Everyone knows you use chunky peanut butter.

:-)

Andrew Lynch

Come ON, guys, don't screw the newbies around.

You spray WD-40 inside the diskette cover and not only does it lubricate the diskette, it cleans the heads at the same time.

Jorg
June 22nd, 2008, 09:02 AM
I just tried the drive rail lubrication procedure for the first time on a drive that had issues, and I have to say it succeeded very well (now that I finally found out how to access those drive rails.. )
Not only seems it reading normally again, it is also much quieter.
Removed as much dust as I could, then applied some oil that came with a hair clipper (if thats the right word).

I'm back on getting my ZIP 250 to work with my 5150 (it works on my 5160, but still not on the 5150....) but thats an whole other story.

NobodyIsHere
June 22nd, 2008, 09:29 AM
I just tried the drive rail lubrication procedure for the first time on a drive that had issues, and I have to say it succeeded very well (now that I finally found out how to access those drive rails.. )
Not only seems it reading normally again, it is also much quieter.
Removed as much dust as I could, then applied some oil that came with a hair clipper (if thats the right word).

I'm back on getting my ZIP 250 to work with my 5150 (it works on my 5160, but still not on the 5150....) but thats an whole other story.

Good to hear that chunky peanut butter trick worked. :-)

Andrew Lynch

Jorg
June 22nd, 2008, 10:06 AM
Good to hear that chunky peanut butter trick worked. :-)

Andrew Lynch

No no! It was Brylcream, like I said

NobodyIsHere
June 22nd, 2008, 10:19 AM
Even better...

:-)

Andrew Lynch

Druid6900
June 22nd, 2008, 07:29 PM
Ok, but, remember, "A little dab'll do ya".

Too much and the heads will shoot right off the end of the rails.

jonaszoon
August 20th, 2008, 05:51 AM
I posted this on VOGONS earlier this month:



For this summer I had planned to make a final, complete backup of all my floppy disks collected over the years.

I started off with the 5 1/4" DD disks, which range from 16 to 22 years old, so initially I was quite pessimistic about their "survival". However, out of the 100 disks, only 5 had serious errors (excluding copy protection stuff), so I was very pleased with the result.

With the previous result in my mind, I enthustiastically began backupping the 3,5" DD/HD disks, 8-18 years old. However, my enthusiasm was soon tempered; 1 out of 3 disks had bad sectors (something I had expected earlier) and a pretty strange phenomenon emerged: Certain disks (mostly TDK branded) triggered a horrible grinding noise, as if the drive was in need of oil. It seemed like the drive motor couldn't keep up or something, so as soon as I heared the noise (it often began upon insertion of the disk), I broke off the backup process. After a while, I discovered that the contents of the "grinding" disks could be listed if tried multiple times. Unfortunately, this led me to reckless behaviour, like forcing the backup tool to retry and retry and retry. So obviously at one point, the floppy drive stopped responding, seemingly for good.

My question is: What is wrong with those disks? Is there any way to fix them? They have no remarkable visual differences and are not the oldest among the disks. Also they behave the same in every other floppy drive I tried and did not during an earlier (partial) backup in 1996 (I haven't used the disks since).

This seems to be the same phenomenon adressed in this thread, apart from the disks being 3,5" in my case. So if I understand it correctly, the sound is caused by particles from the magnetic disk, which end up in the floppy drive mechanism? So the "grinding" disks themselves are beyond any repair?

Trixter
August 20th, 2008, 06:14 AM
I'm back on getting my ZIP 250 to work with my 5150 (it works on my 5160, but still not on the 5150....) but thats an whole other story.

I can't get either my ZIP100 or ZIP250 to work on my 5160 -- what operating system and GUEST version are you running? When I run GUEST (either 5.2 or 5.4) it just hangs.

vwestlife
August 20th, 2008, 02:30 PM
I can't get either my ZIP100 or ZIP250 to work on my 5160 -- what operating system and GUEST version are you running? When I run GUEST (either 5.2 or 5.4) it just hangs.
Iomega's GUEST driver needs at least a NEC V20 or V30 processor to work. If you try it on a plain 8088 or 8086, it will hang. If you need 8088/8086 compatibility, try the shareware "PalmZip" driver.

I had a parallel ZIP100 drive working on my original IBM PC, using a swapped in NEC V20 chip, and an aftermarket parallel port card. I'm not sure if the original IBM parallel card (or the parallel port on the MDA card) would work; some don't support any kind of bidirectional communication, and thus won't let the ZIP driver work, not even in "nibble" mode. Unfortunately the built-in parallel port in my Tandy 1000RL is like that.