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Sharkonwheels
June 13th, 2008, 11:22 PM
I know it should be in the auctions section, but I'm linking it more for interest...I have never even SEEN one of these, and don;t remember seeing an auction, either....

Question of the day, though - is it REAL?


Linkage (http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTREMELY-RARE-Vintage-Apple-1-Computer-HOLY-GRAIL-I_W0QQitemZ220246191431QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4193QQss PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


T

chuckcmagee
June 14th, 2008, 12:12 AM
Major LOL. When I go to sell my Apple I, I don't thing I will hype it that much!! Geez. Way overboard. Especially with everyone trying to figure out how to buy gasoline and still eat.

I saw the gas price yesterday $4.179.... Thought I was in Europe for a second.

Floppies_only
June 14th, 2008, 06:01 AM
Major LOL. When I go to sell my Apple I, I don't thing I will hype it that much!! Geez. Way overboard. Especially with everyone trying to figure out how to buy gasoline and still eat.

I saw the gas price yesterday $4.179.... Thought I was in Europe for a second.

"...while the chip for the keyboard is pretty rare its not uncommon to find them on eBay here and there for a fair price"

$9999.99 starting price, "Reserve not met." $19999.99 Buy it now.

Oh man. My neihbors must think that I am mainlining laughing gas right now :)

My question is, which "Make scads of money on eBay" seminar did this seller attend?

Oh, and wondering how it got caked with dust inside a display case has got me wondering, too.

Sean

Dwight Elvey
June 14th, 2008, 06:57 AM
Hi
I've seen them on ebay twice before. The prices he is asking
are in line with what they have gone for before as well.
While they are rare, they mostly have value because they
are the first Apple product.
He'll surely get more than 10K$, just wonder how high it might
go.
Dwight

Floppies_only
June 14th, 2008, 07:45 AM
Hi
I've seen them on ebay twice before. The prices he is asking
are in line with what they have gone for before as well.
While they are rare, they mostly have value because they
are the first Apple product.
He'll surely get more than 10K$, just wonder how high it might
go.
Dwight

Fair enough. But, "Holy Grail"? This guy is so hyped up - it's over the top. For Forty dollars you can buy this item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Steve-Wozniak-SIGNED-Apple-1-Schematic-Diagram-RARE_W0QQitemZ320262526228QQihZ011QQcategoryZ51046 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and then for another $9,959.99 you could have an electrical engineer build an Apple I clone. Maybe several of them. Steve Jobs and Mr. Wozniac were very good at keeping the parts count very low - so it would be that much easier to build.

That parts count thing held for awhile with Macintoshes. You could compare a fifty pound IBM 286 (either XT/286 or AT - can't remember) to a Macintosh SE weighing about half as much. The motherboards were similarly of different sizes. I really like that light design philosophy.

Sean

P.S.: You could learn how to build it yourself and save the $9,000.

VintageComputerman
June 14th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Some people don't understand investment. In ten years, (if we are all still alive) think what that item might fetch then.

Unknown_K
June 14th, 2008, 09:26 AM
Some people don't understand investment. In ten years, (if we are all still alive) think what that item might fetch then.
In 10 years Apple will have a bad reputation for making shoddy DRM locked in products, so the thrill of owning their history will not be as high. Also less and less people will know Apple made anything but iPods and Iphones by then.

MikeS
June 14th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Some people don't understand investment. In ten years, (if we are all still alive) think what that item might fetch then.
--------
Maybe enough for a tank of gas or a bag of rice...

m

Druid6900
June 14th, 2008, 11:06 AM
In 10 years Apple will have a bad reputation for making shoddy DRM locked in products, so the thrill of owning their history will not be as high. Also less and less people will know Apple made anything but iPods and Iphones by then.

What do you mean "in ten years"? LOL

Thrill of owning their history, what a laugh. Macheads (present company excluded) never look back, just 6 months forward to when Apple is going to obsolete their hardware and/or software.

How do you think Apple has stayed in business all these years (neglecting the massive cash infusions from Microsoft)? They have a product lifecycle of 6 months and a software lifecycle about as long as it takes to install the lastest rendition of their software.

I've owned a pair of jeans longer than most Mac products were in production.

VintageComputerman
June 14th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Well, I see it got a bid.

Druid6900
June 14th, 2008, 11:54 AM
You know, I hate to be a Doubting Thomas, but, a) I don't think they had that sort of connectors when the Apple I was introduced (which could explain the custom built PSU) and, b) while it's great to have a cassette interface, I don't see any slot for the card.

I am not an expert on the Apple I, by any means, but, weren't the first few releases of the Replica Apple I without the fact etched into the artwork?

NobodyIsHere
June 14th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Hi,
Well the latest word on CCTALK is that this Apple I appears to be a modified Obtronix replica kit. Most likely it is counterfeit. Check the June CCTALK thread for details.

Buyer beware...

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

Dwight Elvey
June 14th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Hi
It would seem that it is a replica not a real one.
Compare pictures at ebay# 130227527390 with the one
at 220246191431. It would seem that someone removed
the markings and is selling the replica as an original.
Dwight

VintageComputerman
June 14th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Maybe someone should let ebay know so they can look into it.

apple2fan
June 14th, 2008, 03:54 PM
Now hes saying this:

"I've had some people make claims this is a replica, however... Some people (Apple Experts) insist up and down this is the genuine artifact. I've owned a clone and it looks nothing like this. The replica in question was made in 2005, so how it could have won an award in 2002 is byond me, bought at estate auction... I don't know more then what I have said above, so please inspect pictures"

.....right

TroyW
June 14th, 2008, 04:29 PM
Hmm, doesn't look like an original Apple I to me.

Also, if they're really worth that much, why set the initial bid so high? Would make more sense to get the bidders to fight amongst themselves and drive up the price in my opinion.

Finally, the whole keyboard thing seems a little sus to me, and if it comes with a display case, why don't we see pics of it?...

The whole thing seems just way too sus for my liking and I hope nobody gets ripped off...

Dwight Elvey
June 14th, 2008, 04:32 PM
Hi
One might check out the two cassette boards. It would seem that they
are one and the same board. His pictures are not clear enough to show
that they have the exact same date codes but they have the same
manufacture on at least the motorola one.
My guess is that someone has swapped boards on him. Possibly, one
of his "Apple Experts". I'd want to know who bought the other replica
from ebay. It seems that he has this same unit. From CCTALK, the
buyer was in the same area of the state.
It is possible that he isn't even aware yet that he has been dooped.
I know if I were bidding and won, I'd press charges if he didn't make
a full refund.
Dwight

apple2fan
June 14th, 2008, 06:38 PM
"BECAUSE OF LARGE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE ASSUMING ITS FAKE, I AM NOW PULLING THE AUCTION. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST AND CONCERN, I WILL BE RETURNING IT TO THE GUY WHO SOLD IT TO ME"

okay.....

TroyW
June 14th, 2008, 06:43 PM
"BECAUSE OF LARGE AMOUNTS OF PEOPLE ASSUMING ITS FAKE, I AM NOW PULLING THE AUCTION. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST AND CONCERN, I WILL BE RETURNING IT TO THE GUY WHO SOLD IT TO ME"

okay.....


Bought at computer collectors estate auction, the las owner "Robert Paterson" apparently died several years agoThe last owner, Robert Paterson, is going to get it back, despite having apparently died several years ago? Hmm...

Sharkonwheels
June 14th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Scammer - he got busted, is all.

I sent him a 'question' saying that it was a fake, everyone KNEW it was a fake, and to make sure to get a bunch of vaseline for prison.

Well, I did tell him I advised him to:
"End the auction, or get an attorney. Actually, I would highly recommend both"


T

Vlad
June 14th, 2008, 07:29 PM
He might have ment the auction company when he said return it since he didn't buy it from the late Mr. Paterson (assuming there even was one), he bought it from who ever sold his stuff. But if he's such an Apple collector, why give it back and not keep it?

Its always fun to watch people get caught in their web of lies. Also this is why we can't have nice things.

Sharkonwheels
June 14th, 2008, 08:01 PM
I don't know if I buy that.

That mainboard looks like the one sold on eBay on June 8th, to an eBay member in Indiana, which is the location of that one being sold, coincidentally.

June 8th listing:
Linkage to clone (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130227527390)

Listing we've been discussing:
Linkage to auction we've been discussing (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220246191431)

If you look at the cassette interface, the labels are IDENTICAL, and actually mis-cut!!! You can also see in the second link, where someone obviously did something to the cassette interface to remove the text on it.

3-4 days between first auction ending, and second listing, and both being in Indiana, and then ignoring 12 hours of people sending him messages, and the seller saying he's been advised it's a copy so bid at your risk AT $10000 DOLLARS, I do believe it was a scam attempt.


T

Vlad
June 14th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Woah, thats interesting. Why etch the writing off the cassette interface though? It didn't look like it said anything that would show its a clone.

Also, whats up with that monitor he was trying to sell with it? I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before.

Sharkonwheels
June 14th, 2008, 09:29 PM
This is the photo from the original auction of the clone:

http://www.marmonet.com/ebay/3.jpg


Here is the picture of the cassette adapter after someone "washed" it, and you can see how the upper right corner shows evidence of tampering: Alcohol, something similar - almost took the green completely off!

http://i11.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/f7/2f/f924_1.JPG

In the listing (not of the clone) the seller claims "limited knowledge," yet he just HAPPENS to have an "ACSII keyboard?"
Um, hello - I've been doing computers since about 1981, I have a collection, I LOVE CP/M machines.
Guess what? *I* don;t have a freaking ASCII keyboard - oh, but wait, the clone sold on June 8 happened to include a...
<drum roll>

Yup - ASCII keyboard.

Now, fine, he's selling it, has limited knowledge, so, then, um, why is the ASCII keyboard not included?
What plans has he got for it?



T

Dwight Elvey
June 15th, 2008, 12:15 PM
Hi
He has a story and it is the same machine. The claim is that a third party
bought the board and then sold it at an estate auction as an Apple I.
The seller states that he bought it, thinking to make a few bucks.
He later realized that it was the same unit that was purchased by his friend
that sold it to the middle fellow.
That is his story. He claims that a report has been filed. It would be
great if someone local could check out the story.
Dwight

Sharkonwheels
June 15th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Strange how ALL THAT STUFF happened, in just 96 hours!!!

Bought from eBay, then received, then sold in an estate sale, then listed on eBay?

Man - I find that REEEEEALLY hard to believe


T

Dwight Elvey
June 15th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Hi
It would make a great story for some local news paper.
Fraud of this sort usually only happens to art work. This
is most likely a first for a computer board.
There must be someone close that could get a local
news paper interested.
Dwight

mfortuna
June 15th, 2008, 09:04 PM
It's been relisted and now includes an ASCII Keyboard.

It is now listed as "what many experts believe to be a reproduction of which 150 were made" and the buy it now is $4995.

Anybody want to buy my Replica 1? I'll let it go for $666. :)

Mike

Sharkonwheels
June 15th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Hmm...

Got a link?

He told I think EvanK, that his "friend" gave him $1500 for it...

Story continues unfolding.....


T

david__schmidt
June 16th, 2008, 04:55 AM
Got a link?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220246863432
"NO RETURNS OR REFUNDS - NO EXCEPTIONS!"

TroyW
June 16th, 2008, 05:14 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220246863432
"NO RETURNS OR REFUNDS - NO EXCEPTIONS!"

I guess that guy just doesn't learn, lol

gmh
June 16th, 2008, 07:12 AM
There was a post on newtontalk.net back in 2006 that suggests that technologyrecycling (the account selling the 'Apple I') and maceffects (the account that bought the replica a few days ago) are the same person.

http://www.newtontalk.net/archive/newtontalk.2006-02/0072.html

But then I think we all knew that, didn't we?

RetroMacCast
June 16th, 2008, 10:15 AM
I've been in contact with the seller and he has agreed to be on our next episode to set the record straight. It should be up next week at www.retromaccast.com.

Druid6900
June 16th, 2008, 10:23 AM
I've been in contact with the seller and he has agreed to be on our next episode to set the record straight. It should be up next week at www.retromaccast.com.

Well, I sure hope he has his bulls**t together by then, since, so far, he hasn't been too good at keeping from contradicting himself left and right.

Sharkonwheels
June 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM
GMH: I suspected as such, although the folks on the CCTalk list brought the original listing to my attention to begine with...sharp group of guys over there :)


RMC: Man, you had better go visit Outdoor World / Bass Pro Shops, and get the TALLEST waders you can get, because it's going to be piled...

REALLY HIGH

At some point, he told someone (EvanK I think?) that his friend "Mike" was buying it from him at a "loss" for $1500, but in his current auction for the FreeStyle, he answers someone's question, and signs off with the name "Mike" as well.

Something is strange over there, and I would gamble good money that those two accounts are one and the same.


T

gmh
June 16th, 2008, 02:45 PM
...his friend "Mike" was buying it from him...

Actually, that was Mark, not Mike.

So let's see, if I follow the story he gave to Evan correctly, the replica was purchased for $927 by his buddy who owns the account Maceffects (which a little googling shows is owned by Mark xxxXXXxxx). It then went to an estate sale where he bought it tried to sell it under his account Technologyrecycling (which, as you point out, has comments signed by someone named "Mark"). When he realized it was not an original, he pulled the auction and then sold it to someone in town named "Mark" for $1500.

I think the only reasonable conclusion we can draw is that everyone in NW Indiana is named Mark.

Sharkonwheels
June 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Actually, that was Mark, not Mike.

So let's see, if I follow the story he gave to Evan correctly, the replica was purchased for $927 by his buddy who owns the account Maceffects (which a little googling shows is owned by Mark xxxXXXxxx). It then went to an estate sale where he bought it tried to sell it under his account Technologyrecycling (which, as you point out, has comments signed by someone named "Mark"). When he realized it was not an original, he pulled the auction and then sold it to someone in town named "Mark" for $1500.

I think the only reasonable conclusion we can draw is that everyone in NW Indiana is named Mark.

I stand corrected....

Hehe - all of which transpired in about 100 hours?

Oh, and don't forget, 'Mark' bought it from him for $1500 "at a loss," yet he now has it again, on sale on eBay.

:huh:


T

NobodyIsHere
June 16th, 2008, 04:02 PM
I think we can safely say his credibility is shot. The convoluted Apple I story just doesn't hold water.

Caveat Emptor.

Andrew Lynch

Dwight Elvey
June 16th, 2008, 09:04 PM
I stand corrected....

Hehe - all of which transpired in about 100 hours?

Oh, and don't forget, 'Mark' bought it from him for $1500 "at a loss," yet he now has it again, on sale on eBay.

:huh:


T

It should be noted that he needed some time to remove the marks on the boards
that indicated that it was not an original.
Dwight

barythrin
June 17th, 2008, 08:21 AM
Wow. Good sleuth work you guys. It's gonna be so difficult to get some of these older systems no adays because of these increasing issues. Atleast the replica's indicate they are such while still looking the same which is nice. (Thanks Grant and Andrew)

TroyW
June 17th, 2008, 08:33 AM
Someone should send him these pictures:

http://flabbergastedly.com/wp-content/uploads/chat%20billeder%202/bull%20shit%20CALLING.jpg
http://flabbergastedly.com/wp-content/uploads/Chatbilleder/jamie%20disapproves.jpg
http://flabbergastedly.com/wp-content/uploads/chat%20billeder%202/Not%20Fooling.jpg

Be interesting to see what happens now, this has turned into a bit of a soap opera :)

Dwight Elvey
June 17th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Hi
Finally ebay pulled the plug. Most of you guys missed his last
one. He put it back up and had some phony "computer expert"
claim it was a real Apple I. I would think there is now enough
evidence to start criminal fraud charges against him.
Dwight

Druid6900
June 17th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Wow. Good sleuth work you guys. It's gonna be so difficult to get some of these older systems no adays because of these increasing issues. Atleast the replica's indicate they are such while still looking the same which is nice. (Thanks Grant and Andrew)

Actually, I don't think the original replicas stated that they were replicas and they added it to the artwork just because of this sort of thing.

Dwight Elvey
June 17th, 2008, 02:47 PM
Actually, I don't think the original replicas stated that they were replicas and they added it to the artwork just because of this sort of thing.

Hi
I know the cassette board had something like " Home Brew " on the far
corner. Scraped of in the sellers picture.
By the way. He is back without the phony email testimonials. It still has incorrect statements.
I have an email from him stating that he'd found out that it was the one purchased
on Jun 8 08 and had not been sitting around for years. Of course, it was part of
his auction story which we know to be made up as well.
At least he admits that it is a reproduction. This must have really hurt him to
say that much.
Dwight

tezza
June 17th, 2008, 04:51 PM
I've been following this thread with interest.

Good work from the vintage computing community here. Someone could have been hugely ripped off if this scam hadn't been exposed.

Well done, you guys.

Tez

penguin86
June 18th, 2008, 03:35 AM
I was wondering how it could be worth... Now i know it :eek:

gmh
June 19th, 2008, 10:42 AM
I know everyone's thoroughly sick of this topic, but for the sake of possible future victims who might find this thread via google, and in case anyone still has any doubt that maceffects (the buyer of the clone) and technologyrecycling (who tried to pass the clone off as an original) are the same person, take a look at the completed eBay auction #270242951555 by maceffects and the current #220247965088 by technologyrecycling. Look at the style of the auctions, and especially look at the pictures and tell me that's not the same house and trees in the background.

Geoff.

im_an_alien
June 19th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Who cares about the style of the auction, that's definately the same house, trees, and... little shed/whatever-it-is thing in the background.

Mike Chambers
June 20th, 2008, 07:06 AM
Major LOL. When I go to sell my Apple I, I don't thing I will hype it that much!! Geez. Way overboard. Especially with everyone trying to figure out how to buy gasoline and still eat.

I saw the gas price yesterday $4.179.... Thought I was in Europe for a second.

that is pure insanity with those gas prices, yeah. i saw $3.999 for the first time ever. i've never seen it $4 before. wow.

apparently the guy with the Apple I thinks he has it all planned out on how to buy gas and eat for quite a while. :eek: