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OverClockMyPentium
August 7th, 2008, 01:46 PM
"tandy 1000 TL/3" i have 18 years of work on this computer but today when i started it up i can view all of my files but i cannot access them and cannot view or even open my A:/ drive i think it may have died along with the program "pro file" which i use to open/create and view all my work, does anyone know or have a solution for my problem?

Trixter
August 7th, 2008, 02:16 PM
First of all, I sincerely hope you've made at least ONE backup during your 18 years of working on the machine.

Secondly, it's unlikely that the internal hard drive and the floppy drive would both die at the same time; the only thing I can think of that would do that is the power connector that goes to both.

Can you boot from a floppy disk?

What happens when you turn the machine on without a floppy disk in it? Do you get an error message? If so, what is the exact error message?

OverClockMyPentium
August 7th, 2008, 04:38 PM
I have never inserted a floppy disk into my computer untill about 5 minutes ago and it says the disk is invalid or curropt

Trixter
August 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Then most likely your hard drive has crashed or failed.

If you never inserted a floppy, I can only assume you have no backups then?

Boot DOS in another machine and then take a 3.5" DSDD (720K) disk and format it like this:

format a: /t:80 /n:9 /s

This will create a bootable disk that you can then use to type "dir c:" to see if the hard drive is still there. If it's still there, you have the opportunity to use floppies to copy your files off of there before it fails completely.

If this doesn't work, your only recourse is to send the machine to someone who can try to diagnose it and/or try to retrieve your data from it. I would be willing to do this for you if it comes to that, but you would have to pay for shipping both ways to USA zip code 60540 (or just one way if all you care about are the files and programs).

Druid6900
August 7th, 2008, 08:24 PM
I hate when you write a long post and the system times out and you lose it.

Bottom line is since he can view the files on C: it would seem that it is booting and working and perhaps re-installing this "pro file" program would correct the problem.

I don't see anything in what the OP says that would indicate a hardware problem, but, it COULD be some bad upper memory that's causing the program not to operate correctly. Maybe a stuck bit that's flipped in such a way that it still passes a quick memory chck.

OverClockMyPentium
August 8th, 2008, 10:50 AM
Then most likely your hard drive has crashed or failed.

If you never inserted a floppy, I can only assume you have no backups then?

Boot DOS in another machine and then take a 3.5" DSDD (720K) disk and format it like this:

format a: /t:80 /n:9 /s

This will create a bootable disk that you can then use to type "dir c:" to see if the hard drive is still there. If it's still there, you have the opportunity to use floppies to copy your files off of there before it fails completely.

If this doesn't work, your only recourse is to send the machine to someone who can try to diagnose it and/or try to retrieve your data from it. I would be willing to do this for you if it comes to that, but you would have to pay for shipping both ways to USA zip code 60540 (or just one way if all you care about are the files and programs).

Im currently useing windows vista and none of those options are available, also i dont seen to have any 720k disk just 1.44 MB disks lieing around, if thats a problem where can i find the right ones and is there a program or somthing i can use to format the disk properly

Trixter
August 8th, 2008, 11:16 AM
Im currently useing windows vista and none of those options are available, also i dont seen to have any 720k disk just 1.44 MB disks lieing around, if thats a problem where can i find the right ones and is there a program or somthing i can use to format the disk properly

I missed the part where you said you could see your files properly. So your hard drive is probably working.

Get some 720K DSDD disks (NOT 1.44mb HD), put one into your freshly-started Tandy (you should be at the C: prompt) and type "format A:". It should then format the disk. Then type "dir a:" and hopefully it will display an empty floppy disk and NOT report back an error. If it works, then you can use "dir" and "cd" commands to look at your hard disk and find your files, and then use "copy" to copy them to the floppy disk.

Use more than one floppy disk if it fills up. Repeat until you have backed up all of your files.

Troubleshooting beyond that isn't really possible since it's hard to troubleshoot without physically working with the machine. I gave you the above instructions so that you can get your work off of the machine before it fails completely. Once you have backups of your files, THEN you can start thinking about what to do next.

OverClockMyPentium
August 8th, 2008, 12:22 PM
Alright, so i backed up all my files but none of my computer's can detect the data on them but looking into the disk drive threw my tandy shows that there are infact there on all of my disks and even if i do get my computer to see the data will it be able to read any of these old documents?

Trixter
August 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM
Alright, so i backed up all my files but none of my computer's can detect the data on them

How did you back them up? Using a program, or just copying files? If a program, which one?


even if i do get my computer to see the data will it be able to read any of these old documents?

That's the easy part. If they're text documents, almost any word processor will have a converter (you may lose some formatting but you should at least get all of the words/letters back). If they're some other document, there might be converters out there for those as well. What program did you create your documents in? Wordperfect for example?

OverClockMyPentium
August 8th, 2008, 12:53 PM
How did you back them up? Using a program, or just copying files? If a program, which one?



That's the easy part. If they're text documents, almost any word processor will have a converter (you may lose some formatting but you should at least get all of the words/letters back). If they're some other document, there might be converters out there for those as well. What program did you create your documents in? Wordperfect for example?

I just copied them to a disk, no program used and half of them are formatted for the program "pro file" and the other half are just "text" files. I was thinking maby CompUSA could transfer the data to CD-rom DVD-rom Etc but im not sure i would trust a bunch of kids, who dont kno what a legacy drive is or a sata-2 port is (I'v asked) one kid also told me that DDR3 works with all the new boards

Terry Yager
August 8th, 2008, 01:13 PM
Does Vista even recognize a 720K disk?

I think the original poster needs help from a knowledgeable geek (not the asshole at the local computer shop) who is familiar with vintage as well as modern computer hardware & software. Converting proprietary-format files from an old program to anything that works with Vista is going to be no trivial task, and how to do so is something that cannot be gone into in enough detail here to be of any help to the poster.

My advice: Take Trixter (or someone else here) up on his offer to fix it for you, before you allow the local computer guy a chance to screw it up completely.

--T

OverClockMyPentium
August 10th, 2008, 06:32 AM
I think if someone could send me the program "pro file" i could just print everything out, i still have a working printer and ink ribbon.

kb2syd
August 10th, 2008, 08:31 AM
Where are you located, and what version of Pro File?
Are you talking about Pro File by the Small Comptuer Comapny, or the *other* pro-file?

I have profile for the 16/6000 running Xenix, The model II in TRS-DOS, the Model 4, and the PC line running Dos and Windows. The *other* profile I believe is a shareware database.

The Profile I have uses a menu for EVERYTHING. One option is Inquire/Update/Add. Another is Index Maintenance.

Does that sound familiar? Where on God's Great Earth are you located?

Terry Yager
August 10th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Then there's pfs:ProFile, which was commonly bundled with Tandy products, and sold at RS stores.

--T

kb2syd
August 10th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Then there's pfs ProFile, which was commonly bundled with Tandy products, and sold at RS stores.

--T

I didn't know about that one. I come from the Radio Shack OldeSchoole, and by the time they were hawking stuff like this I had moved on to SCO Unix on ALR boxes.

I do have Deskmate for Xenix around here somewhere...

Terry Yager
August 10th, 2008, 12:54 PM
Yeah, I think I still have a copy of the pfs program around here somewhere...for the Model 4. Never had a DOS version tho.

--T

Terry Yager
August 10th, 2008, 01:14 PM
Oops! A quick google suggests that I may be slightly mistaken about the name:

http://www.emsps.com/oldtools/spc.htm#pfsprofessionalfile10

(I think I'm combining the memories of the Tandy-badged pfs: product with that *other* ProFile:roll:).

--T

OverClockMyPentium
August 10th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Pfs pro file sounds familiar, its a database program where you can create multiple fields on one document and I assume its DOS it came preloaded on my computer when I bought it, as an upgrade at an extra cost of course and and I bought the computer in 1992 ( I believe ) and i am located in south Florida

Terry Yager
August 10th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Perhaps this will refresh your memory:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PFS-File-Write-Report-DOS-Software-Publishing-Corp_W0QQitemZ170247988367QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 170247988367&_trkparms=72%3A1016%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1318

...or these guys may help in recovering your data:

http://www.file-convert.com/fmn.htm

...or even contact Broderbund, who appear to be the current owners:

http://support.broderbund.com/brands.asp?webQueue=176

--T

kb2syd
August 10th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Pfs pro file sounds familiar, its a database program where you can create multiple fields on one document and I assume its DOS it came preloaded on my computer when I bought it, as an upgrade at an extra cost of course and and I bought the computer in 1992 ( I believe ) and i am located in south Florida

I just went through the 1991 catalog (that is the last one I have). It doesn't have the TL/3 in it, nor does it mention pro file anywhere that I saw. I checked the specs at:

http://support.radioshack.com/support_computer/1240.htm

and it came bundled with Deskmate and DOS. However, toward the end of the 1000 line, there were a lot of other "bundles" being offered. You need to find someone in your area familiar with these older machines. Don't trust the twits that are currently working in the "computer" stores.

Most of them weren't even sentient in 1992, many probably are still not.

Terry Yager
August 10th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Perhaps that other RadioShack techie here will shed some more light...

--T

Druid6900
August 10th, 2008, 07:47 PM
Perhaps that other RadioShack techie here will shed some more light...

--T

Sorry, I was strictly hardware and only used software to try and duplicate system problems, so, I didn't get into the packages very deeply.

Getting back to the original problem, what happens when you try and run the "pro file" program that you have on the hard drive?

OverClockMyPentium
August 11th, 2008, 10:17 AM
its not even there anymore and half the time when i start my tandy up it shows that all of my files are missing and the other half there all there but i cannot find the program pro file and the documents i used with it do not show a format and cannot be opened

Trixter
August 11th, 2008, 11:51 AM
If some files are there and some aren't any more, it sounds like the filesystem has become corrupted somehow.

If you can copy Norton Disk Doctor onto a 720K floppy and run it on the machine, you might have a decent chance at repairing it. However, NDD is mostly a glorified version of CHKDSK, which your system already has, so you could try typing the following at the DOS prompt:



chkdsk c: /f


This will attempt to repair any corruption found on the drive. If you have two hard drives, run it again with "D:".

If there are files that are "gone", they may show up again but as "FILE0001.CHK", "FILE0002.CHK", etc. which is irritating as you have to look inside each one to figure out what it is, but that's better than not having them at all!

If you can determine the *exact* name of the program, we can try to dig it up for you. I believe you had PFS:File Pro -- is that right? Was your program colored mostly "blue", including the screens where you defined databases and entered data?

Trixter
August 11th, 2008, 11:56 AM
If your software was PFS:First Choice or PFS:Professional File, you can try a conversion utility:

http://www.file-convert.com/fcdb.htm

...or you can try this little trick: Instead of sending your report to "print" you send it to disk. You have three options to send it to print, to the screen, or to disk. If you choose disk, you can then select ASCII format and nominate your field separators (I like to use the pipe symbol "|"). Then you can import those records into excel or access or any other database program that takes delimited ASCII input.

OverClockMyPentium
August 11th, 2008, 07:56 PM
another problem i have is that none of my "new" computer can read 720k disks both are running on vista so i cant write or read anything on them

Druid6900
August 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM
I think it's time to start thinking about getting someone with the right equipment and the expertise in Vintage stuff to take a look at it.

Terry Yager
August 11th, 2008, 09:14 PM
I think it's time to start thinking about getting someone with the right equipment and the expertise in Vintage stuff to take a look at it.

Amen! (I hope you haven't already done the chkdsk/f thing...)

--T

kb2syd
August 12th, 2008, 10:11 AM
Amen! (I hope you haven't already done the chkdsk/f thing...)

--T

Yeah, I saw that chkdsk comment and went into vapor lock :-0

OverClockMyPentium
August 12th, 2008, 10:27 AM
Amen! (I hope you haven't already done the chkdsk/f thing...)

--T

no i haven't

Trixter
August 12th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I saw that chkdsk comment and went into vapor lock :-0

The reason I suggested it is because he was not going to get Norton Disk Doctor or some other sane program onto the machine, so I suggested what he already had.

I've never had Chkdsk completely bork a hard drive that wasn't so borked NDD couldn't fix it either.

kb2syd
August 13th, 2008, 05:24 AM
True, but he is an obvious neophyte when it comes to repairing borked drives. I still think his best bet is locate a local like those that hang out here. If he were closer, I'd offer. NJ to FL is a LOOOOONG drive...

OverClockMyPentium
August 14th, 2008, 03:42 PM
I have a copy of the files i want on a disk if anyone thinks they could format them into something compatible with newer text/database programs

Trixter
August 14th, 2008, 06:54 PM
If you have a copy of the files, then look back a few posts in this thread for a link to a program that can convert them to a modern format (I regret I do not have a copy of PFS:Professional File)

Terry Yager
August 14th, 2008, 08:48 PM
The reason I suggested it is because he was not going to get Norton Disk Doctor or some other sane program onto the machine, so I suggested what he already had.

I've never had Chkdsk completely bork a hard drive that wasn't so borked NDD couldn't fix it either.

I meant no offense either, I just get the impression that the OP doesn't have enough experience to fix it himself. I'd much rather he take you up on your offer and send it to you before it's too late.

--T

OverClockMyPentium
August 15th, 2008, 03:48 PM
If you have a copy of the files, then look back a few posts in this thread for a link to a program that can convert them to a modern format (I regret I do not have a copy of PFS:Professional File)

none of my computers can read or even see that there's anything on the disks but my Tandy shows me that everything is there