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GregLi
February 19th, 2010, 01:51 PM
Great, thanks!

I went to the spreadsheet, but didn't see the column headings and couldn't decypher the columns. Upload to Google Apps issue?

And apparently there is also an AT-XT keyboard converter available? Another piece of hardware I would very much be interested in.

Thanks again!
Greg

barythrin
February 19th, 2010, 02:30 PM
From memory I don't know what the first column with numbers is and the other two were preassembled and kit (unassembled) .. not sure which was which I just know I ordered one of each.

The format is: Real name, Email/name on forums, number of additional atmel chips requested, number of cards prebuilt, number of cards desired kit form, zip code/country (for estimating shipping costs), international shipping (1 or 0). and column J for comments.

hargle
February 20th, 2010, 08:42 AM
i've added the headers back.
going through the revision history i am able to see what happened and restore them easily enough.

1st kit will be assembled shortly and tested, then my room mate and i will be starting the assembly process on as many cards as we can handle.
I know, I still owe final cost breakdowns, and I'll get to that soooooon.

MV75
May 9th, 2010, 12:26 AM
This is a bit of a late bump, but as you could gather from my first post, I've just stumbled upon this and would really like to know if there are any more of these kits? Thanks.

per
May 9th, 2010, 01:30 AM
This is a bit of a late bump, but as you could gather from my first post, I've just stumbled upon this and would really like to know if there are any more of these kits? Thanks.
Right now, you can still order a PCB from forum member lynchaj, but you'll have to get the parts yourself.

roj_matt
May 24th, 2010, 08:57 AM
I stumbled upon this forum looking for a relatively inexpensive IDE/SCSI card. I have a 5160, and I'd love to give it some more space.

Any chance I can still purchase one of these?

Thanks!

NobodyIsHere
May 24th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Hi! Yes, just send me an email at LYNCHAJ@YAHOO.COM The PCBs are $12 each with $2 shipping in the US and $5 elsewhere. I have plenty available. You buy the rest of the parts and assemble. Good luck!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

pearce_jj
June 15th, 2010, 04:59 AM
I've updated the wiki with a parts list for Fanrell UK which should be good for all of Europe, as shipping from Jameco makes it prohibitive.

Just a thought for any future versions of the board: a 4-pin power socket would be very helpful (to connect via a standard cable of some description to a flash-to-ide socket. Small issue I realise but it would be a bit neater than running cables from drive bays on the other side of the machine.

Anyway thanks again to the developers - am eagerly awaiting the delivery of the parts :)

Cheers

cauldron
July 2nd, 2010, 02:20 AM
Hello. I just finished assembling th pcb. I will post photos later. Now i am having a problem flashing the eeprom.
My system is
AMSTRAD PC 1512
RAM 640Kb
DOS 3.3
8086
Three 8 bit ISA slots
Drive A floppy 720kb
Drive B floppy 360Kb
config.bat
drivparm /d:0 /f:2
drivparm /d:1 /f:0

The configuring utility runs OK. I loaded xt_ide.bin. I get an instant "timeout error when polling eeprom" when i try to flash.
What may be wrong?

JP2 ON
JP1 ON
K1 L CSEL
SWITCH default setting:
1off
2on
3on
4on
5on
6off
7on
8on

hargle
July 2nd, 2010, 05:36 AM
you'll get that message when the flash part doesn't exist on the bus, or it's not where you're telling the idecfg program to find it.

either:
a) missing jumper on the eeprom enable pins
b) solder connections on the last 4 pins of the dip switch aren't quite right: one of them may be floating
c) solder connections on the EEPROM socket itself aren't all working
d) dipswitches themselves are perhaps set incorrectly or not making good contact
e) bad eeprom
f) bad dispswitch

e and f are unlikely.

The easiest thing to try is to just attempt to flash at all 16 possible addresses. The address table is on the back of the card, or here:
http://www.wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_project#Hardware_Settings
Don't change anything on the card, do it all in the software, changing the address one at a time. If the flash takes at one of the locations, then you have a dipswitch problem.

cauldron
July 2nd, 2010, 06:55 AM
Ok. I now tried 2 other adresses and it shows that that it writes with a progress bar and when finished it says "cannot verificate contents" or something like that. When i restart nothing happens. I will try all the possible adresses

hargle
July 2nd, 2010, 07:27 AM
I suspect you still have a bad solder joint, so this little experiment is not the final fix.
Especially if the pin is floating, the flash utility could have a very hard time writing and then reading back to verify the data.

You may also want to move this topic into the "xtide tech support thread" to get a broader audience on figuring out the problem.

wrljet
July 2nd, 2010, 07:37 AM
I suspect you still have a bad solder joint, so this little experiment is not the final fix.
Especially if the pin is floating, the flash utility could have a very hard time writing and then reading back to verify the data.

You may also want to move this topic into the "xtide tech support thread" to get a broader audience on figuring out the problem.

Maybe if Cauldron could post a very clear high res photo of the solder side of his board w/o any glare, it would help.

cauldron
July 3rd, 2010, 08:35 AM
OK I solved it. I had some very bad solder connections everywhere!!! Now my AMSTRAD boots from a HD!! Wow! I used a SEAGATE ST52520A - 2564 MB. Tell me where should i post my photos :D:D

wrljet
July 4th, 2010, 11:43 AM
Congrats on finding your bad solder joints and getting it playing!

What I normally do for pics it put up on the web someplace, and then link to them here. But I just attached this (off topic) pic to see how it's done using the forum's provided attachment space.

Click Reply to the post, then Go Advanced.

Then click on the Attachment icon, which looks like a paperclip.
From there an Upload Manager came up. I just clicked around in Upload Manager and it's straightforward enough.

Click the thumbnail here to see a larger image.
3862

Bill

wrljet
July 5th, 2010, 10:45 AM
Where is the correct place to post suggestions for hardware changes on the next rev of the board?

hargle
July 5th, 2010, 11:33 AM
i don't know if there is a correct place, so here will do.
you won't be the first to suggest changes in this uber thread, so go for it!

sombunall
July 6th, 2010, 07:58 PM
I have a suggestion. It seems the drill holes in the card are for 9202 keystone bracket holes... but where to get them? Jameco doesn't have them. Digikey has them but they are on back order and charge $8 more dollars while you wait. I guess I will have to get them from Newark Electronics?? http://www.newark.com/keystone/9202/mounting-bracket/dp/83F7659?Ntt=9202+bracket

About the drill holes... I tried looking for one on my MFM controller cards... the bottom hole lines up with the older cards but not the top hole. The newer cards don't seem to line up at all. I see from the board that there is no conflict to drill another hole nearby to X=7.35 Y=1.45 on XT-IDE.brd

wrljet
July 6th, 2010, 10:43 PM
I got some brackets from Mouser.

hargle
July 7th, 2010, 05:27 AM
Mouser likewise for me on this last order that I did. Even when not in stock, it seems they can get them from a wholesaler somewhere.

The 9202 was the only ISA slot cover that seemed to be available. I searched for weeks when originally sourcing a bracket, even going to some custom manufacturing shops, but the 9202 was the only thing that was coming up and the only thing we could find specs for. I eventually found a wholesaler and was able to buy 125 of them below mouser's price (but still about 3 bucks each!), and we've burned through all 125 of them now.

There just isn't anything else that is as common, and there is no specification as to what the most used hole position is.

The previous batch of prototype cards had no holes at all, so I had to drill my own, which you can of course do if you just want to steal a bracket from some other card in your scrap pile. Just put the card in an ISA slot, line up the bracket next to it, and mark the holes with a sharpie and go drill them out. At least if you steal a bracket from another card, you'll already have the screws for it! That's more than you get if you go with a mouser bracket.

wrljet
July 7th, 2010, 08:04 AM
Does the XT-IDE.zip (03/01/2010) file on


http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=KiCAD

contain the latest KiCAD layout files for the current board?

I'm playing with some mods (to be suggested) and would like to have the files that match my PCB.

Thanks, Bill

hargle
July 7th, 2010, 09:45 AM
hopefully andrew will verify, but the date looks about right there. the only changes made since early feb were to the silkscreen.

sombunall
July 7th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Ok thanks guys Mouser looks good so far... I swear I've spent all day yesterday trying to find the best place to buy these parts...

Now I'm looking to add a 16 pin socket from mouser and I looked at the specs for the 3M sockets and it says "Suitable for 'lead free' wave solder only. NOT FOR REFLOW SOLDER PROCESSES."

I looked at that video about "how to solder" and I'm not sure my solder is good enough since I want to do a professional job. I have 2 kinds. 1 is on an unmarked spindle, about 15 years old and the other is Cramco with rosin core and is twice as thick but is 30 years old.

Now does this mean they have lead in them and that's bad? What about solder wick for desoldering? Will anything do?

wrljet
July 7th, 2010, 12:04 PM
Ok thanks guys Mouser looks good so far... I swear I've spent all day yesterday trying to find the best place to buy these parts...

Now I'm looking to add a 16 pin socket from mouser and I looked at the specs for the 3M sockets and it says "Suitable for 'lead free' wave solder only. NOT FOR REFLOW SOLDER PROCESSES."

I looked at that video about "how to solder" and I'm not sure my solder is good enough since I want to do a professional job. I have 2 kinds. 1 is on an unmarked spindle, about 15 years old and the other is Cramco with rosin core and is twice as thick but is 30 years old.

Now does this mean they have lead in them and that's bad? What about solder wick for desoldering? Will anything do?

I'm guessing it means the plastic the socket is made from will melt during a reflow process. Not an issue for manual hand soldering. What's the Mouser part nr. for the socket in question?

In general, get parts that are -not- lead-free, when still available. They are a bit easier to solder if you're not experienced with it.

As for solder, you probably want standard 60/40 tin/lead solder, rosin core. Not all rosin flux is the same quality. Also it gets less active with age. Avoid cheap no-name solders. The fluxes tend to leave more of a mess and are harder to clean. I typically use Ersin, or Kester "44". You want something like .030" diameter for this project.

Bill

sombunall
July 7th, 2010, 04:02 PM
What's the Mouser part nr. for the socket in question?

In general, get parts that are -not- lead-free, when still available. They are a bit easier to solder if you're not experienced with it.

Bill

Almost every part is ROHS at mouser. I am experienced at soldering actually. I plan on using a Weller 30W (EDIT: NO! IT'S A 25W) pencil iron.

[EDIT: SEE THE NEXT POST FOR THE RED TEXT I MADE A MISTAKE]
Oh crap I just thought of something else. I use solder paste from 20 years ago I think and when I look in the electronics store I can't seem to find them anymore. I think they are too hard on the environment so they use something else to clean the contacts? I'm not sure what do you use?

Links:

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/3M-Electronic-Solutions-Division/4828-6000-CP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs%2fSh%2fkjph1tvt1%2fmEPT%2fXoFUUv0b vk4oI%3d

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtUMx_eNY_Bev7qe 17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--

sombunall
July 7th, 2010, 05:53 PM
[EDIT: SEE THE NEXT POST FOR THE RED TEXT I MADE A MISTAKE]
Oh crap I just thought of something else. I use solder paste from 20 years ago I think and when I look in the electronics store I can't seem to find them anymore. I think they are too hard on the environment so they use something else to clean the contacts? I'm not sure what do you use?

I am talking about acid solder flux. I just found out about it:


"Acid" flux is the stronger class of flux; it has something like hydrochloric acid in
it. (The paste form has zinc chloride.)
This is good for making difficult oxides dissolve so difficult metals like stainless
steel can be solder-wetted.
But the acid can hang around later trying to corrode the metal it just cleaned for you.
So for electronic stuff we mostly do not use it.[/COLOR]
If we do, we scrub it off with things like toothbrush, water, soap, alcohol, baking soda,
to minimize acid residues.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03278.htm

Sorry for the confusion!

wrljet
July 8th, 2010, 08:07 AM
hopefully andrew will verify, but the date looks about right there. the only changes made since early feb were to the silkscreen.

Thanks.

Is KiCad-2010-05-05-BZR2356-final (Windoze version) the right version?

cauldron
July 8th, 2010, 08:16 AM
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6931/0446b.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/0446b.jpg/) http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2581/0451m.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/0451m.jpg/)

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2254/0457v.jpg (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/0457v.jpg/) http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6408/0450.jpg (http://img375.imageshack.us/i/0450.jpg/)

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/9448/0456w.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/0456w.jpg/) http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/914/0458.jpg (http://img805.imageshack.us/i/0458.jpg/)
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3742/0439n.jpg (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/0439n.jpg/) http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2563/0460is.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/0460is.jpg/)
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/7523/user745pic1150812568917.jpg (http://img810.imageshack.us/i/user745pic1150812568917.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

sombunall
July 8th, 2010, 12:11 PM
I ordered some nice Kester "44" Rosin 60/40 24-6040-0027

http://ca.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/641/2148.pdf

The thing is do I need to use alcohol to clean the solder side of the board? Is 70% good enough?

wrljet
July 8th, 2010, 12:36 PM
I ordered some nice Kester "44" Rosin 60/40 24-6040-0027

http://ca.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/641/2148.pdf

The thing is do I need to use alcohol to clean the solder side of the board? Is 70% good enough?

Good show!

Those boards are well made and new enough they are not corroded and don't
really need cleaning.

One thing to keep in mind is some of the pins (grounds) are connected directly to the large foils and sink away the heat from your soldering iron. If you aren't paying attention you could get a cold joint. So you need the proper tip and iron.

Bill

sombunall
July 8th, 2010, 02:08 PM
One thing to keep in mind is some of the pins (grounds) are connected directly to the large foils and sink away the heat from your soldering iron. If you aren't paying attention you could get a cold joint. So you need the proper tip and iron.

Bill

I'm glad you mentioned this. Here's what I'm going to do. I have a Weller 25W pencil iron and a variac I made that can go up to 200W. I am going to mark the variac knob for 15-20W. So are you saying for the ground I need to increase the heat to 25W?

ALSO! I am going to buy new tips as I never replaced the tip in my iron and always relied on the terrible acid solder flux. I saw a video that said a flat tip is best. Is this true?

link to video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4

Agent Orange
July 8th, 2010, 06:30 PM
sombunall:

If your Variac is any thing like mine, you are varing the voltage not the power. You don't need a Variac to run a soldering iron. If you are concerned about too much heat, go to Radio Shack and pickup a 15 watt iron off the shelf. Your 25 watt Weller is okay for just about anything. Keep the tip clean and shiny with a damp sponge or old piece of terry cloth.

wrljet
July 9th, 2010, 04:12 AM
I'm glad you mentioned this. Here's what I'm going to do. I have a Weller 25W pencil iron and a variac I made that can go up to 200W. I am going to mark the variac knob for 15-20W. So are you saying for the ground I need to increase the heat to 25W?

<snip>


This issue is with thermal mass and delays from heating element to tip, more than wattage. A large foil area (or large component pin) can sink the heat off of a smaller tip.

Better/proper soldering irons (often called stations) have a feedback loop from tip temperature sensor to the heating element and tend to have higher power. (for example, the one I use for SMD work has a tiny 0.015" tip and is 65W) If the tip temp starts to drop, the controller can pour on the coals to maintain tip temperature.

But I guess I'm getting off the topic with all this.

wrljet
July 9th, 2010, 05:25 AM
<snip>
BTW: kicad is complaining about not having o_memory.lib and dips-s.lib when I try and open it. Can you put those in your next zip?
Thanks!

update: never mind. I found those libraries using this: http://per.launay.free.fr/kicad/kicad_php/composant.php

Could you send me o_memory.lib (zipped), please. Those links run into a dead end now, and I can't find it anywhere on google.

Thanks.../Bill

wrljet
July 9th, 2010, 05:27 AM
<snip>
BTW: kicad is complaining about not having o_memory.lib and dips-s.lib when I try and open it. Can you put those in your next zip?
Thanks!

update: never mind. I found those libraries using this: http://per.launay.free.fr/kicad/kicad_php/composant.php

Also, does anyone know why KiCad is triggering Windows Firewall asking to unblock it?

Thanks.../Bill

Agent Orange
July 9th, 2010, 11:17 AM
wrljet:

I understand what you are saying and you are 100% correct. However, I've been soldering this and that for over 50 years and have had formal training in the art of solding through a vast and varied career. The gentleman in question is just putting together a small pc board, with garden variety components, not something on the space station. Maybe he could check this URL out: http://www.elexp.com/t_solder.htm

sombunall
July 9th, 2010, 06:40 PM
Ok thanks for all the tips. I'll read that document Orange and get back to you. Maybe we should take solder questions to:

Soldering iron and tips
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?2497-Soldering-iron-and-tips&highlight=solder

This thread endorses using a variac which I already have built. I want to try to get by without automatic temperature control.

I am puzzled by what you said Orange. Decreasing the voltage does not decrease power? What about P=V^2/R ?

Agent Orange
July 10th, 2010, 04:07 AM
Your math is right but forget Ohm's Law on this one (I=E/R). Why not try the Variac on your electric range to just 'warm' that coffee pot? What I meant to convey is that a Variac primarily deals with voltage, not power, and is used mainly in troubleshooting potential excessive circuit loading. Yes, it will run junior's Lionel or make your bedstand lamp a very nice night light, but it just seems like a long way around the block for the sake of 10 watts. Personally, I wouldn't trust the voltage scale (or Ohm's Law) on that Variac to derive 15 watts out of a 25 watt iron. Maybe I've got this response in the wrong area - should have put in the Rants area. Good soldering techniques will more than compensate for the extra 10 watts. Oh what that heck - go ahead and use that Variac and lets us know how it works out for you.

P.S.

I once had to change a tire with a pair of water pump pliers when I was a little younger.

sombunall
July 10th, 2010, 10:08 AM
...What I meant to convey is that a Variac primarily deals with voltage, not power, and is used mainly in troubleshooting potential excessive circuit loading...

...Personally, I wouldn't trust the voltage scale (or Ohm's Law) on that Variac to derive 15 watts out of a 25 watt iron...

I used it to fix a vintage stereo. Pioneer SX-990 if you must know. It's a DIY. I intend to measure voltage and current with a meter and mark it off. Yes it's stupid but I already have it so why not? This is FUN! :frankenstein:

gurby
July 15th, 2010, 05:15 AM
Hi all,


As far as I can see, all vintage computer experts are here on this forum gathered :D

I have an old HeadStart Explorer XT computer (http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/explode/) with a broken harddisk in it.
At first, I'll try a low level format by using DEBUG.
When this does not work, I have one 8-bit ISA channel which is free for use.
Is there currently a IDE adapter card available? I know there are a few (ie the Acculogic sIDE) but they are very hard to find as you all know.

Are you guys able to create one yourself?

Agent Orange
July 15th, 2010, 06:51 AM
What you need to do is send a PM to LYNCHAJ. He has some unpopulated pcb's on hand from the XT-IDE Vintage Forum 8 bit IDE HD controller project. He can point you in the right direction as to where to obtain the required components.

MikeS
July 15th, 2010, 07:13 AM
...This thread endorses using a variac which I already have built. I want to try to get by without automatic temperature control.

I am puzzled by what you said Orange. Decreasing the voltage does not decrease power? What about P=V^2/R ?I'm not surprised that you're puzzled ;-)
Power is voltage times current, at least in a simple resistive circuit like this, so obviously reducing voltage reduces power.

Agent Orange
July 15th, 2010, 10:34 AM
MikeS:

It was never a question of power. I was refering to percent of actual regulation possible 'in the real world'.

wrljet
July 15th, 2010, 10:41 AM
I don't know if it applies to soldering iron heating elements, but many resistive things like that change with temperature. Like light bulbs. Hotter they get the higher the resistance and lower current. Which would make a constant-voltage control of iron temperature unrealistic.

Agent Orange
July 15th, 2010, 11:15 AM
I would like to apologzed to all out there who have taken part in this thread. I certainly didn't intend for this to turn into some sort of a engineering session. My take was that I thought it was an 'over kill' to have to use Variac on a simple 25 watt soldering iron to achieve the proper soldering temperature. A 15 watt soldering pencil from Radio Shack (Model: 64-2051) is still available for under 9 dollars. I have now changed my view. If you would like to use a Variac, by all means go for it. If you would like to drag your Honda generator into your work area and run it at 'idle' or so, to obtain the temperature(s) that you need, then please do that. Next time I'll try to keep my nose out of it as it seems that life long on the job practicle experience is not what counts, when one is seeking help on a small 'kitchen table' soldering project.

wrljet
July 16th, 2010, 06:36 AM
There's nothing wrong with an engineering session, is there? We're all just "bench racing" here over a beer.

geordy
July 30th, 2010, 03:58 PM
Hi all, I just posted a new blog entry on my building experience of the XT-IDE controller. Once I rounded up all the parts, I would say it only took an hour or so to actually build. Great job people. I have to thank anyone here who had a part in designing this pcb and firmware. It's really nice to be able to use a common hard drive in my old XT. Please give me some diggs too if you are on digg. :)

http://www.notanon.com/electronics/how-to-build-an-8-bit-ide-controller-for-a-pc-xt/2010/07/30/

sombunall
July 30th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Hey kids! Just a reminder not to plug your XTIDE in backwards like I just did!

ISA has no key. U6 and the Eprom got hot but no smoke. Left running for about a minute before I realized the folly. Have to try again tomorrow after changing all the chips just to be sure.

hargle
July 31st, 2010, 11:39 AM
http://www.notanon.com/electronics/how-to-build-an-8-bit-ide-controller-for-a-pc-xt/2010/07/30/

this is great! Nice pictures too.

Just a clarification:
I see that you're saying that 01110111 for the dipswitch is not what it says in the build instructions. With your settings, you've got it set to IO 300h and address E000h with the last 4 switches set to 0111. Our "normal" defaults is D000h, which is 1011, as it says on the instructions page.
If it works, excellent, but the build instructions are technically correct.

I think the fault is that the silkscreen * denoting the default address for the eeprom side is in the exact same spot as a thru hole, but it's actually right up there by the "D1FF"

geordy
August 1st, 2010, 10:19 PM
Yeah, I see what you mean about the astrisk being in a hole. Oddly, it works with the switches set to 01110111 for my friend James and me. He flashed the eeproms for both of our controllers with an external eeprom programmer so not with the utility. He tried the other dip setting first but it would not work until we set it to 01110111.

Whatever the case, it works great on both of our systems. I'm having a little trouble getting it to boot from a compact flash device but my friend's seems to work with no trouble.

Does the controller favor certain flash cards or flash-ide adapters over others?

hargle
August 2nd, 2010, 05:51 AM
Changing switches 5:8 should be harmless provided there isn't anything conflicting in memory at whatever address you land on. The memory address is simply where the ROM is placed in memory, and the mainboard BIOS will scan from C000 to F000 looking for ROMs to execute and does not effect the operation of the card. As long as there aren't any other devices using the memory you

The flash utility does expect the card to be at the default position, but you can change it easily enough in the menu settings.
You might check the XTIDE universal bios thread for more info on CF devices, and also check here in the test results section:
http://www.wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_TestResults

hargle
August 3rd, 2010, 05:23 AM
I see that we've made hackaday because of geordy's article.
http://hackaday.com/2010/07/31/xt-ide-controller/

roj_matt
December 7th, 2010, 09:02 AM
I just wanted to say thanks to all those who made this card possible! I just got my IDE card in my XT, and everything works great! I have it booting DOS 6.22 from an older SanDisk 256 MB CF card, and so far so good.

THANKS AGAIN!

gurby
December 7th, 2010, 09:23 PM
Who do I have to contact to see if I can purchase some of these cards?
I contacted Hargle by PM but no reply yet... is he the person to contact?

NobodyIsHere
December 8th, 2010, 02:17 AM
Hi! I just reordered additional XT-IDE PCBs for builders. You can contact me at LYNCHAJ@YAHOO.COM and I will set you up. The PCBs should arrive in late (~28) Dec 2010 or so.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

gurby
December 8th, 2010, 02:20 AM
Hi Andrew,
Is that the full set of components I need to assemble it? I don't know if I can do the assemblage myself.. can you do it for me?
I think I'd like to have 3 pieces...

NobodyIsHere
December 8th, 2010, 02:39 AM
Hi! All I offer is the PCBs for hobbyist builders to assemble for themselves. There is no way I can assemble boards in addition to all the other projects I am involved with.

Fortunately the board is very easy to assemble and was designed with amateur hobbyist assembly in mind. The parts list and detailed instructions are on the vintage-computer.com wiki plus there are many builders here who will answer questions, provide moral support, etc. As a starter project it doesn't get much better than XT-IDE!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

MV75
December 9th, 2010, 04:01 AM
Where do you live Gurby? I'd love to do this project again. Lots of repetitive soldering, I love it. :)

As for where to get parts, I got most of mine, pretty much all the logic and sockets and atmel eprom from futurlec.

gurby
December 9th, 2010, 04:04 AM
Where do you live Gurby?

Holland... and you?

MV75
December 9th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Bugger. I'm in Australia, so international postage probably won't make it worth it.

But seriously, all you need is even the most basic solder station you can buy that has temperature adjustment and a very basic knowledge of soldering and just go for it. It's a good practice kit as it's all pin through soldering. :)

Pepinno
December 15th, 2010, 02:58 PM
Hi! All I offer is the PCBs for hobbyist builders to assemble for themselves.

I am so late to the party, but I want my very own XTIDE card!

I can solder and assemble mine, but am I right in understanding that lynchaj's offer is only of the PCB, and not of the components? Or is lynchaj offering both the PCB **and** the components needed for the buyer to assemble his very own XTIDE?

hargle
December 16th, 2010, 05:56 AM
send me a PM and I'll get you in the queue.
I gather up the parts from mouser, jameco, and andrew, bundle it together and then sell kits and finished products.

I'm likely going to be ordering 10 more kits in the next few days (nothing will be done til after christmas though)

NobodyIsHere
December 17th, 2010, 04:03 AM
I am so late to the party, but I want my very own XTIDE card!

I can solder and assemble mine, but am I right in understanding that lynchaj's offer is only of the PCB, and not of the components? Or is lynchaj offering both the PCB **and** the components needed for the buyer to assemble his very own XTIDE?

Hi! PCBs only. You get the rest and assemble.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

NobodyIsHere
December 17th, 2010, 01:42 PM
Hi! Well, good news! I just received 20 new XT-IDE PCBs. They are $12 each plus $2 shipping in the US and $5 elsewhere. Please send a PayPal to LYNCHAJ@YAHOO.COM and I will send your PCBs right away!

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

Chuck(G)
January 4th, 2011, 03:10 PM
I've been looking at the XTIDE project Wiki and at the schematics and code. I now have a blank PCB and will assemble it when I get round tuit.

But the design had me wondering about something...

I note that the 16 bit IDE register is accessed with 2 I/O instructions. Why not enable it to be accessed with a single one? On an 8 bit bus, the 8088 executes a 16-bit IN our OUT in two bus cycles (low-order from port and then high-order from port+1). It would seem to me that you could clock a flip-flop off of I/O accesses and note when the access to the low-order port occurs, and if the next access was to the high-order byte, to read or write it from the bus.

This would let the read instruction loop look like this:


IN AX,DX
STOSW


Which, I think would be substantially faster than simple byte-oriented I/O. On those CPUs (e.g. V20) that can support the 286 instruction set, this would be a single INSW.

What do you think?

NobodyIsHere
January 4th, 2011, 03:51 PM
Hi Chuck! Thanks! We could do something similar by manipulating the IO address decoder and using the inverter to make sure the two IO ports are adjacent in memory.

Here are some *untested* instructions on how to convert the basic XT-IDE board to a configuration that is DMA compatible.

As I understand it, to use DMA the IO ports need to be adjacent in the Intel LOHI format (little endian) for 16 bit access. Remapping the IO ports would be fairly simple with just 4 cuts and 5 jumpers.

Just cut the traces A3, A2, A1, and A0 as they come onto the ISA board.

A0 to A1
A1 to A2
A2 to A3

A0 is a special case because it has to be inverted. Fortunately there is a spare inverter.

Connect A0 to pin 13 of the 74LS04 pin 13 (input)
Connect 74LS04 pin 12 (output) to A3.

Solder directly to the pins on the back of the board. Alternatively you can solder directly to the pins on the chip. Just pull them out of the socket and fold them out straight and reinsert the chip in the socket.

The bad news is the modified board will not be backwards compatible with the current XT-IDE so there are some side effects. The first order of business of the software is to verify the new IO port mapping is working. That will require some quality time with DEBUG.

I think it is best since you are writing software that you have the modified board closest to you. If you are not comfortable with making the modifications I can do this a send it to you. Really this should not be a problem for you since the cuts and jumpers are pretty minimal.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

Chuck(G)
January 4th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Hi Andrew,

Thanks--I'll check the mods out when I get a chance. Yes, the ports do need to be adjacent in little-endian organization.

As I see things, the big bottleneck in the XTIDE is getting data in and out of the drive. Ultimately bus-mastering DMA will do the most for that, but is also the most complicated from an implementation standpoint.

NobodyIsHere
January 10th, 2011, 05:35 AM
Hi! Any news on this?

This weekend we've made some substantial progress on an ECB version of the GIDE. It will be slightly different in that it is made without GALs and interfaces to the ECB bus. It will support two separate IDE channels (4 drives total) and the RTC chip Tilmann used in the original design. The schematic and PCB layout are firming up and I'll send them out for review probably tonight. How this applies to XT-IDE is that if N8VEM has a dual GIDE design it could probably be adapted to XT ISA bus fairly easily.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2011, 07:55 AM
No, no news and probably not for a month or so--other things take priority. But I'll get around to it eventually.

I've been watching advertisements and sales and note that PATA drives are getting to be thin on the ground--I've even seen Craigslist ads offering to swap SATA drives for PATA. Our neck of the woods has an aggressive recycling program, so that may be part of it. And it's been quite a while since I've seen a sale on a CF card, which makes me wonder if they're headed for obsolescence.

I'm not particularly concerned for myself--I still have MFM, ESDI and SCSI drives and controllers. But this might present a problem for some future hobbyist wanting to get his old iron going.

I'm just making an observation, not proposing anything.

Klee
January 12th, 2011, 06:10 PM
I just got my kit in and i'm really REALLY impressed with the quality of the board.:D

Pepinno
January 13th, 2011, 10:04 AM
Today I got in my snail mailbox the naked XTIDE PCB I bought from lynchaj.

It's beautiful, man!

Now, it's time to practice my soldering skills on some "collateral damage" boards...

hargle
January 13th, 2011, 10:59 AM
glad to see this round of cards is starting to hit their targets.
Good luck with the builds and let us know if you do anything interesting with them: PATA->SATA converters perhaps, or rigging one up in a non IBM or oddball clone. There is an "XTIDE tech support" thread on this forum just in case you run into troubles, and the main wiki page has build instructions.

dabone
January 13th, 2011, 12:22 PM
I got to mine today, and slapped it together. I had a junker 40GB pata drive laying around to test with and it sees it as an 8gb.
I made a 1GB partition and marked it active, but it failed at 4% into the format.
I'll bring in my compact flash drive tomorrow, (I forgot it) and try again. (It's only 512meg).

Thanks to everyone involved in this project!

Later,
dabone

hargle
January 13th, 2011, 12:58 PM
Just so there's no confusion, 8G is the expected behavior. (that's a DOS limitation, not the card, but c'mon, you don't really need more than 8G anyway!)
You could probably set up multiple partitions and try formatting different sections until you get one that works. By junker I'm assuming that you think the drive is not exactly reliable, so the failed format might also be expected?

dabone
January 13th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Probably a bad drive, I didn't have much time to test. I haven't been to work all week till today so I had a few things I needed to catch up on.

And I know 8gb is the limit, but I also wonder if it suffers to problem of corrupting drives because of the mapping. I'll check out the tech support thread to read up on the subject. The drive I tried was a Western Digital WD400JB and yes it was just laying around in all my junk on my bench.

My goal is a cf solution, I purchased the backplane ide/cf adaptor for this purpose.
You know, power off, yank the card, and load up new stuff on a modern pc.

Maybe this weekend I'll be able to sit down and play, my multi i/o with clock also came in today and I didn't even get around to opening it.
(Kinda sad to open it, it's still got the original shrinkwrap.)

Later,
dabone

dabone
January 14th, 2011, 06:25 AM
Ok, today I tried a sandisk 512meg cf card and adapter, and after reading the support thread I decided to change my 40 pin cable to an 80 pin. The card would see the card in the bios but when I tried to fdisk, it reported error reading fixed disk. Then when I did a warm reboot (Ctrl-alt-del or the reset button) the card would not show up in the bios. It required a power cycle to be seen by the bios again. (The bios was reporting the correct info for the card).

So I was bummed, and decided to try another hard drive, but got the same error. Then I stepped back and worked on something else for awhile and remembered, I changed the cable!. I put the 40 pin cable back on and now everything is working great. Fdisk, format, and now booting off the cf. The transfer rate according to coretest is 158k a sec which is about 100k slower than the hardcard I have. (But seek times are great!).

Thanks again. Great card at a really cheap price. Now where did I stick my old copy of dosmenu??


Later,
dabone

Chuck(G)
January 29th, 2011, 08:02 PM
Quick question, guys. (my apologies if this has been asked and answered, but there are 123 pages of postings here).

Why are the unused positions of RP1 and RP2 grounded? It would seem to be a waste of power and accomplish nothing? Why not leave them open (handy for wired patches)?

I know it's a nit, but I'm starting to solder mine up and this one made me scratch my head...

NobodyIsHere
January 30th, 2011, 06:03 AM
Hi Chuck! Those are a left over artifact from earlier design that should have been removed. They are harmless but waste power as you noted. You can cut the traces if you want or leave it as is. If/when there is another version of the XT-IDE, I'll clean that up.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

Chuck(G)
January 30th, 2011, 09:10 AM
Hi Andrew,

I thought it might have been an oversight. It's a bad habit I have--as I solder, I mentally work out how a PCB works and sometimes things grab your attention. A bad habit I picked up...

Chuck(G)
January 30th, 2011, 08:36 PM
Hi again, Andrew,

If you do decide to work on another version, a minor convenience might be to add a 4-pin header to the board to provide +12 and +5 for disk drive power on the board. I suspect that a fair number of people are using an IDE-to-CF adapter and a header for power might be appreciated.

Lord Moz
January 30th, 2011, 09:50 PM
Hi again, Andrew,

If you do decide to work on another version, a minor convenience might be to add a 4-pin header to the board to provide +12 and +5 for disk drive power on the board. I suspect that a fair number of people are using an IDE-to-CF adapter and a header for power might be appreciated.

Or, perhaps, in an IBM PS/2 Model 30 that has no power plug for a drive... ;)
__
Trevor

IBM Portable PC
February 16th, 2011, 04:08 AM
I was just wondering about throughput and looked at http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_TestResults where I found a figure of 85 Kilobytes per second which converts to 0.68 Mega bits per second unless I'm mistaken?

However even an old Future Domain TMC 850 8 bit SCSI card will give you around 5 Megabits per second whilst the ISA bus theoretical bandwidth is around 9.6 Mega bits per second!

I'm assuming 85KBs can't be right?

per
February 16th, 2011, 04:34 AM
I was just wondering about throughput and looked at http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_TestResults where I found a figure of 85 Kilobytes per second which converts to 0.68 Mega bits per second unless I'm mistaken?

However even an old Future Domain TMC 850 8 bit SCSI card will give you around 5 Megabits per second whilst the ISA bus theoretical bandwidth is around 9.6 Mega bits per second!

I'm assuming 85KBs can't be right?

It's not the bus speed that's the issue. While the ISA bus can do megabytes per second, the 8088 can't possibly work that fast. Under 4.77MHz, one byte takes 4 clock cycles of 210nS (a little less than 1uS) to complete, and in addition it will take from 2 to over 100 cycles to execute the instruction. The 8088 is able to buffer 4 bytes while an instruction executes.

An instruction can be from one to six bytes long, and this is the real bottleneck of the 8088; It spends most of the time fetching instructions, especially during loops or branches. This is the reason why todays computers has at least three levels of cache.

In the 8088's case, it can move memory with the rate of about 350KB/s under optimal coding. The old version of the XT-IDE needed quite a lot of instructions to fetch a word, like shifting of register/etc., and that's why you only get 85KB/s. With the mod, one word can be fetched using only two instructions. After some calculations on saved cycles, I have concluded that the modded design should be able to reach 247KB/s transfer rate (with minor modification of the BIOS), which is about a x2.9 increase in speed.

This is about 37.7 cycles per word on average, where the two instructions fetching the word takes 30 of these. The old routine used 109.4 cycles per word on average.

IBM Portable PC
February 21st, 2011, 03:19 AM
So throughput should exceed that of a TMC-850?

Zombie
April 22nd, 2011, 02:26 AM
I am trying to restore my Tandy 1000 TL in a similar method to the process shown here but the TL is a bit more flexible a machine than the HX. Currently my TL HAS a hard drive in it, but it is an ancient 21 MB MFM RLL hard drive that is failing. I have two such drives. I want to replacwe that hard drive with a 512 CF Card, but I need an XT IDE hard disk card made for the TL. Would anyone be willing to assist me?

Mike H
June 3rd, 2011, 02:31 AM
A few years back (2003, I think), a friend wanted to make an IDE controller for a PC. His dream was to make something like a SUPER PCjr. He was using either a Tandy 1000A or SX to do his testing, so as not to risk his PCjr. I got interested because my favorite PC has always been the Tandy 1000TX. I hoped if something turned up I could use it in my TX, also. He had some kind of rig in his Tandy that allowed him to use an IDE, but it only gave him around half of the rated capacity. As I recall, he had a 830mb hard drive that gave him about 400mb with his adapter.

Not too bad, I thought... much better than the 42mb I'd "shoehorned" into my TX! Just over a month later, John was dead. His family junked everything he'd worked on in an effort to assuage their grief.

Running across this thread brought my previous hopes back into focus. Unfortunately, my eyesight is no longer very good. I now run my TX with an 8-bit vga adapter card, and the biggest monitor I could find. I would dearly love to buy 2 or 3 of these XT class IDE cards (I've always believe in having spares of critical parts). They would have to be completely finished (soldered, flashed, etc) as I'd have trouble doing anything more than just installing it.

Sounds to me as though this would make a nearly perfect "hardcard" using a 2 1/2 inch IDE drive. I think the reduction in power consumption would help the longevity of any Tandy 1000-class machine.

thanks
Mike H

hargle
June 3rd, 2011, 05:46 AM
XTIDE cards work very, very well in all sorts of tandy machines, and give you approximately 8.4G of hard disk space, depending on what DOS version you are using.
There's not actually enough software written for this class of machine to fill up that much hard disk space, believe me, I tried.

we are sold out at the moment, but are working on the next generation of the card. send me a PM and i can get you into the queue for when the cards are available again.

We are also working on an actual PCjr version of the card, and that thread is here:
http://www.brutman.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=180

Mike H
June 3rd, 2011, 09:50 PM
Was there even 8GB of software made for XT-class PCs?

I have a few smallish (by today's standards) 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 hard drives. My thought was to limit myself to sub-512mb and hope XTree could deal with 4 128mb partitions.

I wonder just how many of my old floppies are still readable? Fortunately, there are several storage sites online for older XT-class software.

I suppose I'll have to start looking for one of the old keyboard adapters, but I haven't even seen one in 18 years, or so...

Thanks to everyone who's responded.
Mike H

cauldron_
July 20th, 2011, 01:36 AM
Hello, i have installed XT IDE on my AMSTRAD 1512 for two years now and works fine. I have posted again here. I used a 2.2GB Hard drive. Now i want to install a Sound Blaster Pro card. But i have an address conflict issue. During installation it lets me choose between 220h and 200h. In what base address should i set XTIDE in order to work?

Agent Orange
July 20th, 2011, 03:06 AM
Hello, i have installed XT IDE on my AMSTRAD 1512 for two years now and works fine. I have posted again here. I used a 2.2GB Hard drive. Now i want to install a Sound Blaster Pro card. But i have an address conflict issue. During installation it lets me choose between 220h and 200h. In what base address should i set XTIDE in order to work?
Do you have the Blaster installation/configuration software? If so, it will offer you choices. Also, if you have access to MS's 'MSD'EXE' it will show you where your IRQ's, etc. are.

hargle
July 20th, 2011, 05:47 AM
The default address for the XTIDE is 300h. If you haven't changed the settings (which requires a new BIOS upgrade to tell it where the IO space is) then you should not be conflicting with the SB card. Is it maybe the MIDI stuff that is conflicting?

Anyway, there are 16 possible IO settings for the XTIDE, you should be able to find one somewhere that doesn't conflict with the SB card at all. Again, just make sure you update the BIOS at the same time as you move the IO space setting. I'd suggest keeping the SB at its factory defaults for maximum compatibility.

cauldron_
July 20th, 2011, 09:01 AM
Thanks for the answers. My XTIDE is still at 300h. SB suggests 200h or 220h during installation. But both dont work. So i guess i have to try different settings in XTIDE. Which are these 16 possible settings?

tingo
July 20th, 2011, 09:10 AM
Check out the XTIDE project (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_project) on the Wiki.

Agent Orange
July 20th, 2011, 11:11 AM
Thanks for the answers. My XTIDE is still at 300h. SB suggests 200h or 220h during installation. But both don't work. So i guess i have to try different settings in XTIDE. Which are these 16 possible settings?
FWIW: Small tip - Start with a bar-bones system and pull all unnecessary peripherals out of your pc; i.e., sound card, etc. The sound card setup is fairly flexible. Use Microsoft's MSD.EXE to see where your assets are.

hargle
July 20th, 2011, 11:53 AM
Check out the XTIDE project (http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_project) on the Wiki.

Or look at the silkscreen printed on the back of the actual card! :)

cauldron_
July 22nd, 2011, 07:06 AM
I changed the base address to 320h. But it stills doesnt work. It seems that it cannot detect the sound card. I think there is no problem with XTIDE. The sound card setings are the factory defaults Maybe is a bad card or incompatible? (http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-multimedia/CREATIVE-LABS-INC-Sound-Card-SOUNDBLASTER-PRO-2-CT.html)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/0d824.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/0d825.jpg/

hargle
July 22nd, 2011, 09:42 AM
are there other cards in the machine? NIC card perhaps?
Take out everything you don't need to boot, including the XTIDE and boot to a floppy and run your tests. If it still doesn't work, then yea, it could be a bad sound card, but you really can't rule out some conflict with something else on the motherboard or even the floppy controller, whatever. You may have to try it on other machines just to verify it.

Mike Chambers
August 2nd, 2011, 06:21 PM
I changed the base address to 320h. But it stills doesnt work. It seems that it cannot detect the sound card. I think there is no problem with XTIDE. The sound card setings are the factory defaults Maybe is a bad card or incompatible? (http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-multimedia/CREATIVE-LABS-INC-Sound-Card-SOUNDBLASTER-PRO-2-CT.html)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/0d824.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/0d825.jpg/

i can say that i use the same CT1600 SB Pro 2 with the XT-IDE card, and it definitely works for me, in both a 5150 and a 5160.

pearce_jj
August 18th, 2011, 04:04 AM
Just for interest, there has been some exciting developments over on the 'dangerous prototypes' version of the board - discussion thread here (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2657). Basically there is a working prototype out there which used a programmable 'CPLD' chip to replace many of the 74-series ICs on the original version.

Chuck(G)
August 18th, 2011, 09:39 AM
If I had the luxury of a CPLD on board, I'd rework the read/write logic so that word I/O was transparently done to the drive without the loopy "Chuck mod", so that both reads and writes would be sped up.

pearce_jj
August 18th, 2011, 11:06 AM
Hi Chuck, is this something you could be persuaded to offer some input on over there? Sounds like a great idea!

Chuck(G)
August 18th, 2011, 12:47 PM
I think I have already in some prior life, but sure, I can offer my worthless opinion. :)

pearce_jj
August 18th, 2011, 11:07 PM
You seriously under-rate yourself!!

ian
August 19th, 2011, 04:28 AM
We have talked about the CPLD version on and off :) I posted some early work in a thread here. I would like to consider a second version with no discrete logic at all, only a large CPLD. That would essentially be a blank slate for you to design on. I'd really appreciate any input to the design process. There are a ton of great suggestions already, but I'm afraid I don't have enough background to address all of them.

I can make some of the easier changes like replacing logic with CPLD, header changes, interface/power pins/connections for CF cards, that kind of stuff. I'm lost when it comes to what extra pins you'd need if you wanted to toy with DMA.

eeguru
August 19th, 2011, 04:39 AM
I've already built a CPLD XT-IDE with no discrete logic for the PCjr - with Chuck's read optimization also applied in the write direction. Only problem is it's been sitting on my desk for a month without any time for me to test it. I've also layed out a board and written the code for an ISA version with literally only 2 ICs (CPLD & ROM). And everything is 5V through-hole - no SMT. I can provide the layout and the code to anyone who wants it.

I've finally moved into my new apartment closer to work this week. So more time is opening up without 2+ hours of commuting each day.

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 05:06 AM
Very interested in this... what size CPLD was needed to accomodate the lot?

eeguru
August 19th, 2011, 07:27 AM
It's really dependent on the I/O pin count needed. I used either an Atmel ATF1504AS or ATF1508AS in a 84 pin PLCC. The PCjr design needs the 128 cells for some additional logic to decode RAM, paged flash, and a secondary PLD for POST display and RTC. The ISA design fits into the 64 cell part. ATF150x's come in a 5V version with on-board reg to make core voltage. Though their future availability may become volatile. But PLCCs choices in general are becoming more and more end of life. And I was shooting for a SMT free / hobby assembly friendly approach. You can buy ByteBlaster II knock off cables on eBay for $16 shipped that work with the Atmel ISP software.

Using a 3.3V part is still an option with a through-hole LDO reg. The only requirement is the part must have independent I/O voltage supplies (@5V). A 3.3V part with 3.3V I/O won't work even if it's qualified as 5V tolerant. It's likely it can't supply enough drive current for IDE. And the clamping diodes used to make 3.3V inputs 5V tolerant typically require external current limiting resistance on each pin.

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Interesting, thanks. I'm not sure on the finer details but the dangerous prototypes board does seem to be working with a 3.3v CPLD.

eeguru
August 19th, 2011, 10:19 AM
I haven't looked at their schematic lately or part choice. Both problems may initially work. The low current drive problem may not work with all hard drives. Running 5V clamping 3V3 parts at 5V w/o limiting the sink current will also work, but it will burn the part out over a short time.

Chuck(G)
August 19th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Just from the standpoint of protecting a part that needs programming, I'd use some buffers between a 3 volt part and the drive. I wouldn't worry about modern IDE drives, but some crufty old IDE drive may not be as kind.

Of course, this raises the parts count, but it's also just good practice.

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 11:26 AM
On the XT the buses are fed through some 74 series TTL, so I'd assumed that there should be pretty wide tolerance. The address bus measured 3.4V on my scope, although the data bus was much closer to 5V admitedly.

Chuck(G)
August 19th, 2011, 12:41 PM
What's wrong with using a 5V CPLD? Have I missed something?

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Just that they're hard to find, apparently.

Chuck(G)
August 19th, 2011, 01:22 PM
Futurlec has the Altera MAX7000S chips in PLCC (http://www.futurlec.com/ICAltera.shtml)

And I can find the Xilinx XC95xx chips all over the place Here's some XC9572s (http://www.semiconductor-webstore.com/servlet/the-4091/XC9572XL-dsh-10PC44C/Detail) for example.

eeguru
August 19th, 2011, 01:32 PM
While MAX7000 and XC95xx series chips work, they are significantly more expensive than a ATF150x in a PLCC-84 package (2x to 4x the price). You can't get the IO pin count you need in a PLCC-44. Maybe a 68 if you can find them and keep things I/O space mapped. That's why I settled on the Atmel parts.

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 01:50 PM
Well either way, I'm pretty excited about the CPLD version and looking forward to getting one running :cool:

Chuck(G)
August 19th, 2011, 02:08 PM
While MAX7000 and XC95xx series chips work, they are significantly more expensive than a ATF150x in a PLCC-84 package (2x to 4x the price). You can't get the IO pin count you need in a PLCC-44. Maybe a 68 if you can find them and keep things I/O space mapped. That's why I settled on the Atmel parts.

My last project using 5V CPLDs used XC95108s in 84-pin PLCCs and it wasn't that long ago. Looks like the supply has dried up, however.

That's going to be a problem in the future for retro-fit boards--5V logic is rapidly getting scrapped. Oddly, this seems to be hitting the complex logic chips faster than the older SSI stuff.

pearce_jj
August 19th, 2011, 11:10 PM
Yes indeed, hence the CPLD board being stalled since last year and the subsequent gamble to run it on 3.3V (5V tolerant) logic. Hopefully we should have some more info soon on whether it's stable.

pearce_jj
August 20th, 2011, 01:08 PM
Quick update - some initial results posted on dangerousprototypes (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2657&p=26112&sid=6801bc23c33667b7f1f5739eb18a90d1#p26109) for 3.3v CPLD version... it's been tested with 4 HDDs and 2 CF cards, and worked with them all. Speed was 210KB/s write and 248KB/s read, measured in a 286/12MHz, rising to 780KB/s write and 1100KB/s read with the A0/A3 lines swapped (although the BIOS to support that only worked with one of the drives).

eeguru
August 22nd, 2011, 03:20 AM
Consult the data sheet carefully on "5V tolerant" parts. Usually they are 5V tolerant only because they have internal clamping diodes that need external current limiting resistance. If you don't add that resistance, the part will burn out well before it's expected operational life. Different PLD manufactures have different app notes and requirements to this effect. eg. RTFM.

Edit: I can't find any specific current/clamp information on this from Xilinx for the XC9500XL family (unlike their FPGA parts). I'm still a bit confused at the part choices though when there are 5V through hole versions of everything in their schematic.

pearce_jj
August 22nd, 2011, 03:45 AM
Thanks. Just looking at the datasheet for the Xlinx XC9572XL (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds057.pdf) - can't see anything about that mentioned, just recommended high-level input voltage of 2-5.5V. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place?

ian
August 22nd, 2011, 04:13 AM
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the feedback.

After looking at the 5volt options I gave up and went 3.3volts. It was just a personal preference, no offense intended if you prefer 5volt solutions. The older parts are rarer and rarer, and the sources more confusing. For example as far as I can tell the linked CPLD above is a 9572XL 3.3volt CPLD in PLCC, not a 5volt part, and I got tired of those gotchas. You can still get a few of the long-life 5volt parts at distributors like Digikey, but they are usually 4x more expensive than 3.3volt parts and in short supply.

I used SMD because I prefer to work with SMD, just a personal preference and what I stock in my workshop. It would be the best way to go if we ever manufacture a small batch.


Usually they are 5V tolerant only because they have internal clamping diodes that need external current limiting resistance.

I can't find the exact reference for the XC9572XL, but I do not believe it requires any external protection for 5volt interfacing. It does not depend on the ESD diodes and a series resistor, it has a actual 5.5volt tolerant input like you find in modern PICs, ARMs, etc. I can't find it, but there is a similar statement for XC95xxXL as this one for a previous-generation CPLD:


The XC4000XL I/O structures have been designed to tolerate a
constant input voltage of 5.5V using only the single 3.3V power
supply connected to the device. In fact, they are 5V tolerent
even without being powered up. This means that any 3.3 or 5
Volt (CMOS, TTL, Pullup, or Vcc) may be safely attached to an
XC4000XL input without the use of any current limiting
resistors or worries about power-up sequencing.

EDIT: link for above quote (http://www.xilinx.com/support/answers/2505.htm).

eeguru
August 22nd, 2011, 04:15 AM
Ah that answers that on 5V. Thanks for the info.

ian
August 22nd, 2011, 04:18 AM
eeguru - I'd love to see your pcjr board.

I am also keen to make an all-CPLD version using the vq-100 (144?) XC9572XL.

eeguru
August 22nd, 2011, 04:26 AM
hw files (http://retrotronics.org/wiki/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=2)

I'll update with the CPLD source tonight. I think I've actually managed to block out a few hours 4 days this week to start real testing. I'll keep posting as it comes along.

ian
August 22nd, 2011, 04:35 AM
Wow, thanks! That's a great looking piece of hardware.

pearce_jj
September 2nd, 2011, 12:40 PM
Quick update - I finally got the prototype board (with 3.3v CPLD) working and testing has gone very well indeed in a PC/XT 5160. Also works fine in much later Pentium 200MHz.

By the way re the through-hole vs SMD issue. As a complete SMD novice I found the assembly wasn't too challenging. Actually the 74xxx chips and the CPLD were a dodle. The 0603 components took some patience though, but I wouldn't be put off doing another SMD project. Where I struggled was in adding jumper wires (due to a couple of errors in the prototype) because my hands aren't particularly steady.

pearce_jj
September 14th, 2011, 04:54 AM
Quick update on progress on this as some more new (to me) info has come to light on the cross-voltage issue.

It turns out the ATA/100 spec is based on 5V tollerant, 3.3V signalling (confirmed on scope), so running an ATA/100 drive on 'the original' xt/ide board is already making use of the interoperability of such. Specifically, 3.3V logic is designed to be TTL friendly, i.e. push out >=2.4V high and <=0.7V low.

However with compact flash there is a potential complication as the cards can operate at 3.3 or 5V Vcc, but the spec states that with Vcc=5V, Vih is 4V, which is way above TTL specs - hence there are potential integrity issues. However running the CF cards with Vcc=3.3V bypasses that issue as it then uses TTL compatible voltages.

Anyway, that's about it for now.

eeguru
September 14th, 2011, 05:25 AM
Good find. However I'm not sure why at Vcc=3.3V, a high is not required to be 2.97V. I can't find the spec it's referring to in that note to understand why.

pearce_jj
September 14th, 2011, 05:35 AM
Over on DP Ian suggested 'I bet whatever levelshifter is on the card needs 3.7 of more volts to register highat 5v supply', and FoolDupleX later clarified, 'the official CompactFlash specification : "the CF shall operate at both 3.3V and 5V supply voltages. The current requirements shall not exceed 75 mA at 3.3V and 100 mA at 5V." Also, Vih on the I/Os is minimum 2.4V when VCC is 3.3V and 4V when VCC is 5V. Vil is respectively 0.6V and 0.8V'.

The prototype board is a mix of 5V and 3.3V signalling at the moment - so will be interesting to see how the full 3.3V CPLD implementation(s) run.

eeguru
September 14th, 2011, 06:09 AM
The current requirements shall not exceed 75 mA at 3.3V and 100 mA at 5V." Also, Vih on the I/Os is minimum 2.4V when VCC is 3.3V and 4V when VCC is 5V.'.

The CF spec isn't clear on that at all. If you read the note, it refers to providing a high voltage of 90% of min Vcc for 5V signaling. What I'm not clear about is why that doesn't apply to 3.3V signaling? It refers to another specification that I cannot find. But that's a spec'd limit. Most 5V signaling devices are LVTTL devices and do not require a 4V+ level to register a one.

pearce_jj
September 14th, 2011, 08:17 AM
I'll look in to this more as it seems to be something that we need to get right. If I'm reading it correctly, it actually looks that the levels should be TTL for true IDE mode.

Chuck(G)
September 14th, 2011, 12:21 PM
Generally, with CMOS, you're safe with Vih at 0.60 of Vcc. If you've got some doubts, adding some pullups to the outputs probably wouldn't hurt.

pearce_jj
September 15th, 2011, 09:01 AM
Thanks Chuck - will continue testing.

I've kindof continued this discussion of the DP forum to keep the content together:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2657&start=135#p27648

rangga
October 1st, 2011, 03:46 PM
I think someone breaking the rule... :(

Check it out guys...

hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-IDE-ISA-HDD-CONTROLLER-CONNECT-MODERN-IDE-DRIVES-XT-MACHINES-8088-80286-/320765191316?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item4aaf186494

CMIIWR

geneb
October 1st, 2011, 04:25 PM
I suspect it would be easy enough to get the auction pulled...

g.

Chuck(G)
October 1st, 2011, 04:37 PM
What rule?

It doesn't matter if someone wants to resell something on eBay or not. This isn't a private club--anyone can join.

If someone wants to build any of the devices that have been rolled out here and sell them, what rule would be broken?

pearce_jj
October 1st, 2011, 11:19 PM
Perhaps I should fix up my non-working board, looking at the price! (towards building the next design I mean)

Brian1234
November 5th, 2011, 06:52 PM
If anyone has a spare XT-IDE they might part with (in the US, preferably assembled & tested) I'd sure like to hear from you.

NobodyIsHere
November 6th, 2011, 04:33 AM
Hi
I continue to get requests for the original XT-IDE board but have none of the PCBs left. I thought the project (XT-IDE V1) was overcome by events since there are replacement projects underway such as the XT-IDE V2 (since shelved) and the CPLD XT-IDE project.

What is the status of the CPLD XT-IDE replacement project? Are you going to come out with a PCB? To be honest, I am not following the status all that closely. I think there is some work happening at Dangerous Prototypes and/or Mike Brutman's forum.

Is there a plan to release a new PCB? If so, when do you (whomever is leading the project) plan to release it? I don't want to push but I'd like to give builders who ask a reasonable answer on the way ahead.

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

eeguru
November 6th, 2011, 05:41 AM
As far as I can tell the DP effort is dead. There have been no new posts over there in a while. I stopped contributing when Ian rolled back the design changes and didn't want to route the signals that would at least allow for memory mapped operation in the future. I'd still like to see that effort succeed going forward.

JR-IDE boards (both side car and ISA versions) are in the hands or on their way to the first builders. That includes hargle and aiotait who both have been busy with other things lately. The P1 ISA hardware and P2 Jr hardware has been proven out at a low level. The code isn't a big deal to write. Brutman is workin on that as well from the PCjr side.

However ideally I'd like to swap the PLD from an Atmel to Xilinx due to recent increases in cost/decreases in availabily. That won't affect software compatibility but may delay a group buy till a P2 spin. But once there is BIOS support, nothing would be stopping someone from sending the currend board files through (eg) DorkBot PDX for a 3 board order and builing up a board before the group buy is ready to happen. People can do that now if they'd like to early adopt; it's an open project. There is the down side of needing to purchase or build a Altera Byteblaster cable where as in a group buy, the PLDs would be individually shipped pre-programmed (cables ar $16 on eBay including shipping).

I personnally haven't had time to get a support site up or there would be more information to redily share. My appologies on that.

mbbrutman
November 6th, 2011, 06:22 AM
While while I'm not actively hitting my head on the wall with it, the PCjr BIOS will be done sooner than later. (I plan on attacking it this week.) The changes will be easy enough for somebody to port back to the standard BIOS for use in an PC or XT.

(The memory mapping approach is really elegant ...)

NobodyIsHere
November 6th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Hi,
Is the JR-IDE a generic ISA board that anyone with an XT (or clone) can use or is it specific to the PCjr?

Thanks and have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

pearce_jj
November 6th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Hi Andrew, Ian (at DP) has produced a second spin of a 'hybrid' CPLD design (where the data bus is still fed with discrete 74xxx logic) of which I'm planning to make up a few for distribution amongst members here in the next few weeks. It's just a partial CPLD port of you excellent original design.

For a full CPLD build, Alan's JR-IDE port design has progressed faster than the DP variety. Stumbling blocks have been Compact Flash socket, since unless varients with a high enough stand-off can be sourced the board size will be bigger than what is economically feasible, and secondly replacing the 27Cxx series EEPROM with something more cost effective and widely available, which I believe Alan's design is trialling some other options.

Later BIOS wise I submitted some bugs a few weeks back, but haven't had chance to look at that since.

So basically, WIP at the moment :)

eeguru
November 6th, 2011, 10:58 AM
The ISA card is generic. Will work in any PC/XT clone. It is the IDE & ROM portion of the JR side car board lifted up and put on a 8-bit ISA form-factor card.

The PLD could actually be eliminated if someone were interested in turning it back into a 74xx series project. A PLD was a logical (and in hindsight a correct) choice for rapid prototyping memory mappings. There were a number of code changes to address unforeseen problems and oversights that would have required many respins before hardening the design in fixed logic. Many modern ASICs and full systems are developed in this way using reconfigurable logic as a rapid prototyping tool.

I don't have a real 4.77 MHz bus clone nearby to test with atm, however some preliminary raw benchmarks on the JR seems to indicate 300 KB/s or more is possible using a single rep movsw to transfer in a sector. The only changes needed to the existing 74xx IDE designs is the carving out of an area at the top of ROM space for a 512 byte sector transfer window, a normal IDE 2x8 byte wide register area, and some additional combinatorial changes for latch enables and IDE address generation. The final PLD code can be used as a logical reference for anyone wanting to attempt it.

Unfortunately there is no current estimate on software as everyone is heavily interrupted atm including myself. But as soon as new mile-stones are reached, I'll post them here. I think all those involved with the project atm are intent on unifying software support (at least with the ISA version) with existing XT-IDE BIOS code. There is a board somewhere over the Atlantic for Tomi (Universal BIOS maintainer) to test with.

NobodyIsHere
November 6th, 2011, 11:07 AM
Hi
Any estimate when you are going to release a PCB? Are you planning on offering it to the public?

Thanks!

Andrew Lynch

eeguru
November 6th, 2011, 11:16 AM
Yes it's a completely open project and I do plan on fronting the cost of a group buy in both PCB and possibly components

pearce_jj
November 6th, 2011, 11:38 AM
In case anyone is desperate for a board, the Dangerous Protypes v1b board is available at no or minimal cost, five left apparently: v1b board (http://dangerousprototypes.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=73)

eeguru
November 6th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Here's a rendering of the card:

7022

Here's a photo of P1: (ignore the vaporized trace on the left side!)

7020

The current pending change list includes:

- Change main CPLD from Atmel ATF1508ASL to Xilinx XC9572 and reassign pins
- Route IOW & IOR to extra pins on XC9572
- Eliminate configurable cable select / Make SW1-4 a ROM enable/disable select / Expand RN1 to 4 pullups to match
- Route +5V to through 1x2 .100" jumper to key pin (20) of IDE header for flash modules
- Plate through and unmask around screw holes for back-plate.
- Hard gold on fingers
- Update silkscreen with final URL

pearce_jj
November 7th, 2011, 02:01 AM
All looking absolutely great - as ever.

With the addition of an optional VRM, it would be able to take an XC9572XL as well.

eeguru
November 7th, 2011, 04:17 AM
No XC9572XL. I believe in having margin - especially in old electronics. I just don't believe the MOS 3.3V I/Os will be able to source enough drive current for every odd ball mismatched impedance ISA bus or IDE drive people try and plug in. If a mismatched line causes too much of a draw and the I/O sags even a little, it's possible the drive or bus may not register a one. I know you've done a lot of successful compatibility testing, but I just don't see the point in saving $4.5 when there is an equivalent part in plentiful supply with a built-in LDO and 5V buffers. And nothing on this board will be SMT. Again if both the TQFP-100 and the PLCC-84 packages in plentiful supply, I don't see the choice in the former. This board wont be fulfilled by Seeed but by end users with soldering irons. That's really where the design focus differs. Just my $.02.

pearce_jj
November 7th, 2011, 05:18 AM
That's fair enough; I wasn't meaning to cause any offense!

eeguru
November 7th, 2011, 05:48 AM
There's never any offense. :) There are a couple points where the DP design and mine diverged. Was just pointing them out :) I still think there is merit in having two options. I thought the progression was positive on the DP thread until Ian posted the rolled back design without any explanation of why it was reverted to such a old point.

nathan
November 19th, 2011, 07:38 AM
Wanted to come back here and make a quick post about a problem I solved on my XT-IDE kit which was from one of the original batch, in case someone has the same issue. Symptom was that the system wouldn't even boot with the XT-IDE card in any slot. Turns out that the culprit was a wonky EEPROM. I have heard mixed reviews on the SEEQ EEPROMS that were included in the kit, mine happened to have something bad on the D6 line (would not write any bit sent along this line). Anyway, got a more reliable brand of 28C64A from Mouser and everything looks A-OK. :)

archeocomp
May 27th, 2012, 11:02 AM
Is there anything new in ISA 8 bit IDE card development ? I would definitily be interested in buying/building one.

pearce_jj
May 27th, 2012, 01:35 PM
Feel up to soldering one of these (http://vintage-blog.peacon.co.uk/wiki/XT-CF)?

tingo
May 28th, 2012, 01:54 PM
Feel up to soldering one of these (http://vintage-blog.peacon.co.uk/wiki/XT-CF)?

Is it available with SMD components pre-soldered?

Chuck(G)
May 28th, 2012, 02:01 PM
Is it available with SMD components pre-soldered?

It really isn't hard to solder SMT packages. Have a look at this page (http://eprojects.ljcv.net/2011/10/yet-another-pic32-proto-board.html), for example, which solders a 100 pin 0.5mm pitch TQFP. You do need a decent magnifier to check your work, however. An inexpensive triplet jeweler's loupe will do. Dissection microscope is even better.

tingo
June 2nd, 2012, 08:46 AM
It really isn't hard to solder SMT packages. Have a look at this page (http://eprojects.ljcv.net/2011/10/yet-another-pic32-proto-board.html), for example, which solders a 100 pin 0.5mm pitch TQFP. You do need a decent magnifier to check your work, however. An inexpensive triplet jeweler's loupe will do. Dissection microscope is even better.

That may be, but currently I do not want to expose myself to the level of frustration required for me in order to succeed in that learning experience. YMMV.

pearce_jj
June 5th, 2012, 12:40 AM
Tricky at first, yes. Syringe flux makes it a lot easier. Once mastered though it opens up so many parts to DIY use.

Chuck(G)
June 5th, 2012, 08:08 AM
That may be, but currently I do not want to expose myself to the level of frustration required for me in order to succeed in that learning experience. YMMV.

I will almost guarantee that my eyes are worse and my hands are less steady than yours--and I can do it.

ibmapc
June 5th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I will almost guarantee that my eyes are worse and my hands are less steady than yours--and I can do it.
And my hands and eyes are probably worse than Chucks, and I'm thinking about tryin' to build one of these.

christr
August 21st, 2012, 08:19 PM
Feel up to soldering one of these (http://vintage-blog.peacon.co.uk/wiki/XT-CF)?

Oohh neat. :) I can handle SMT soldering (have a hot-air rework gun). Has someone already done up boards and are any available for purchase? Looks simple enough where I prolly won't even want a soldermask (unless for some reason I was making a bunch... but doubt it.. if that's the case tho my neighbor has an oven I can use).

--Chris

Chuck(G)
August 21st, 2012, 09:24 PM
All you need is a decent TC iron and some solder wick.

I prefer to tack the large ICs, particularly the TQFP fine-pitch ones down with a dot of clear nail polish between the bottom of the package and the PCB. Get them aligned perfectly and go away overnight. Perfect registration otherwise can be a real bear, particularly on the 100 and 200 lead packages. Tack all 4 corners, then add solder to all sides (a wide chisel tip works fine), then suck up the excess with solder wick. I've heard of people even doing it with a Soldapullt.

As far as the small SMD 2- and 3-lead devices, that's easy. Put a little solder on a pad, bring one lead of the component up to it, heat the solder, position the component, then remove heat. Do the other leads as normal.

Heck, I didn't even have to use my stereo microscope to do this one. If I can do it, anyone can.

gurby
September 23rd, 2012, 09:52 PM
Gents,

I now have an 8bit XT IDE card from Jeff (sent to me in working order) and installed it in my HeadStart Explorer PC.
But it doesn't boot, the headstart just boots as alway without the XI-IDE screen first.
In debug when I read out the adress, it shows the IT -IDE ROM information fine. But when trying to write it to a BIN file, that BIN file is empty.
Using DOS 3.31h.

Anyone tips and ideas?

Chuck(G)
September 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM
Some PCs don't support DMA access to the ROM areas. Try moving the ROM data to debug's RAM area and writing it.

Have you tried running the card in another ISA-bus equipped PC?

modem7
September 24th, 2012, 12:00 AM
In debug when I read out the adress, it shows the IT -IDE ROM information fine. But when trying to write it to a BIN file, that BIN file is empty.

Some PCs don't support DMA access to the ROM areas. Try moving the ROM data to debug's RAM area and writing it.
Quick example for gurby:


C:\> DEBUG

-N MYF600.BIN (file will be named MYF600.BIN)

-R CX
CX 0000
:2000 (set CX to 2000, used by following write command [quantity bytes to write])

-M F600:0 2000 0100 (copy 2000H bytes from F600:0 to offset 0100 in local segment)

-W 0100 (write from offset 0100 in local segment)
Writing 2000 bytes

-Q

gurby
September 24th, 2012, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the debug code, very helpful! I will try that soon.

I've also tried to execute the ROM directly from DEBUG, which made the PC to hang. Is it possible to move over to RAM and then try to run from RAM/local segment as a test?

gurby
September 24th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Sorry modem7 but I don't know how to enter your syntax in DEBUG.

This is the code I used before, to try to create a .bin file:

-rcs
CS 1266
:d000
-rcs
CX 0000
:2000
-n test6.bin
-w cs:0
Writing 2000 bytes
-q


What should I try in DEBUG now ? I guess at least your F600:0 should be different value?


By the way, I don't have another PC to test the card on ...

modem7
September 24th, 2012, 01:54 PM
Sorry modem7 but I don't know how to enter your syntax in DEBUG.
...
What should I try in DEBUG now ? I guess at least your F600:0 should be different value?
What I provided was an example of what Chuck(G) was writing of - inclusion of code to copy the ROM contents into the space used by DEBUG.

I can see by the code that you have just posted, that your intention is to dump the 8 KB at D000:0
DUBUG code to do that is:

-n test6.bin
-m D000:0 2000 0100
-r cx
CX 0000
:2000
-w 0100
Writing 2000 bytes
-q

SunDown79
October 2nd, 2012, 09:04 AM
Are there any ready assembled still for sale or "in the pipeline" ?
Would be nice for my Compaq Plus.

JihemB
October 10th, 2012, 04:08 AM
Hi,
I am interested too for an already assembled board in order to revive my old Amstrad PC1512 PC.

pearce_jj
October 10th, 2012, 06:13 AM
Yes! Please see here, post #255 (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?27152-Forthcoming-XT-IDE-Board-Cast-Your-Vote/page26).

NobodyIsHere
August 26th, 2013, 09:18 AM
I'm "upgrading" my old Tandy 1000SX and need a 8-Bit IDE controller. Something like or similar to an Acculogic sIDE-1/16. Any leads would be greatly appreciated. eBay proves negative at this time.

Thanx,

Agent Orange

Hi
It boggles my mind but the whole XT-IDE project started almost FIVE YEARS ago.

Wow.

Have a nice day!

Andrew Lynch

Agent Orange
August 26th, 2013, 10:37 AM
What a great job Hargle and his crew did! That board is now world-wide and it certainly breathed new life into a lot of old PC's that were destined to just plod along with floppy's and a clunky old MFM hard drive. Wouldn't a 8-bit combo HD-floppy controller/serial-parallel port/game port/RTC card be something to behold? Hargle: it's not open season in Minnesota is it? Well a guy can dream a little can't he? :hide:

LOOM
February 7th, 2014, 04:07 AM
I have a very old laptop with a drive controller card with XT-IDE pins on it. The problem is that this laptop does not have ISA slots. Is it possible to make an adapter that can attach to the XT-IDE pins on the controller board, and add a IDE slot on the other end? Just like this card, the only difference is that instead of ISA you hook it up directly to the XT pins.

Or does this adapter already exists ?

pearce_jj
February 7th, 2014, 12:22 PM
We need to understand which interface it has exactly as there are several possibilities, and there needs to be some way to get the XTIDE Universal BIOS into the machine. Does it have any custom expansion slots?

chjmartin2
September 12th, 2014, 06:30 PM
Hi,

Should I buy this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-CF-Lite-v4-8-Bit-IDE-Compact-Flash-Hard-Drive-ISA-Card-XT-IDE-for-Vintage-PCs-/151409269675?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accesso ries&hash=item2340b21bab)?

I want one and here it is, but, not sure if I am buying the right thing?

Chris

Al Hartman
September 12th, 2014, 07:12 PM
Hi,

Should I buy this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/XT-CF-Lite-v4-8-Bit-IDE-Compact-Flash-Hard-Drive-ISA-Card-XT-IDE-for-Vintage-PCs-/151409269675?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accesso ries&hash=item2340b21bab)?

I want one and here it is, but, not sure if I am buying the right thing?

Chris

You need to give us more information. What kind of computer do you want to put this in?

Are you asking about the XT-IDE v2, or one of the Lo-Tech boards?

I have the Lo-Tech Board that works great in an IBM 5150 PC.

chjmartin2
September 12th, 2014, 07:20 PM
You need to give us more information. What kind of computer do you want to put this in?

Are you asking about the XT-IDE v2, or one of the Lo-Tech boards?

I have the Lo-Tech Board that works great in an IBM 5150 PC.

Tandy 1000 TL.

chjmartin2
September 13th, 2014, 02:19 PM
Tandy 1000 TL.

I have now bought it. What size Compact Flash Drive should I buy?

dr.zeissler
September 18th, 2014, 12:15 AM
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?42935-TANDY-1000-RL-HD-with-Keyb-Mouse&p=339545#post339545

Some help needed too.

I already own an XT-IDE 8Bit Card, but I don't know how to get it working.

hargle
September 18th, 2014, 06:30 AM
trying to help over here:
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?19591-XTIDE-tech-support-thread&p=339575#post339575

this thread isn't tech support and is way to long to be useful anymore.

dr.zeissler
October 20th, 2014, 10:27 AM
Today I finally got my XTIDE-v2 working in my Tandy 1000RL/HD. This is fantastic!!
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?43104-Tandy-1000-SX-with-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-problems-flashing&p=343625#post343625

Agent Orange
October 20th, 2014, 11:29 AM
Today I finally got my XTIDE-v2 working in my Tandy 1000RL/HD. This is fantastic!!
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?43104-Tandy-1000-SX-with-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-problems-flashing&p=343625#post343625

How about a run down on what you did for posterity's sake. :D

dr.zeissler
October 21st, 2014, 10:01 AM
1. Deactivate the Onboard IDE Controller (setuprl /a)
2. Disconnect the Harddrive (IDE-cable and Powercable)
3. Put the XTIDE-V2 Controller in the 8Bit-Slot and connect the CF-Adapter
4. Boot from Disk and flash the XTIDE card with a special Bios http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/other/offr566.zip (flash offr566.bin c800)
5. Reboot and that's it.

Doc