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QuantumII
December 11th, 2008, 04:52 AM
Hi

When I got my XT it had an ST-225 in it. Problem is, this HDD spins up and then starts banging the head against the stop screw (at the far end of the platters).. (making a tick-tick-tick-tick noise), and the ST11 MFM controller reports NO DRIVES FOUND (or whatever the phrase is).

If I rotate the stepper all the way towards the center of the spindle, the drive will calibrate without making the ticking sounds. I have not tried this while the drive was connected to the MFM controller btw.

I assume that the ST-225 does not have a Track 0 interrupter optical switch, but some servo track embedded on one of the platters instead..

btw, I had a spare HDD for the xt, i just wonder if this HDD is possible to fix or if I should just keep it for spares..

per
December 11th, 2008, 04:59 AM
I'm not sure, but oooold HDD's for mainframes had a screw keeping the head parked. Only way to unpark them is to unscrew the screw. IDK if it is the same with your drive, problably not.

QuantumII
December 11th, 2008, 05:26 AM
no, the head can move allright. it just seems to be unable to sense track 0. Also, the noise the drive makes differes when the head is close to the center of the platters than when they are on the outer edge. Sounds almost like they touch the platters even when the drive is at full speed.

Maybe the platters got knocked out of aligment while being shipped (as in slightly bent casing). That's my guess

gerrydoire
December 11th, 2008, 06:48 AM
I bought used and new vintage mfm hard drives, all of them died after a short time of use.

My Vintage IBM PC and XT now have <<<<SCSI & IDE>>>>

:)

Do you like my photo, I'm Cute

10 print "insert barf icon here"
20 goto 10

error "out of memory"

MikeS
December 11th, 2008, 07:32 AM
Never mind the disgusting picture; tell us what cards you're using to run those SCSI and IDE drives in your PC/XT.

BG101
December 11th, 2008, 05:12 PM
I'd love to know what he did to those drives to kill them. Bloody sacrilege.

All these MFM drives need is a low-level format (and maybe spindle lubrication). Magnetism is bound to have decayed during years of storage so a LLF is needed to restore them.



BG

MikeS
December 11th, 2008, 06:08 PM
I'd love to know what he did to those drives to kill them. Bloody sacrilege.

All these MFM drives need is a low-level format (and maybe spindle lubrication). Magnetism is bound to have decayed during years of storage so a LLF is needed to restore them.

BG
----------
Well, many of them do ultimately die, beyond the powers of LLF & lube to revive.
I could send you a few...

QuantumII
December 11th, 2008, 11:25 PM
I know about the low-level format and everything. The drive does not even calibrate. It's a brick ;-)

Druid6900
December 12th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Sounds like the infamous custom IC failure on the logic board that plagued so many 225s even when they were new

QuantumII
December 14th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Sounds like the infamous custom IC failure on the logic board that plagued so many 225s even when they were new

Yeah, does that cause the behaviour I've described ? (head banging and not always calibrating)

What does that chip do ?

Druid6900
December 14th, 2008, 07:45 PM
It causes all kinds of strange things, depending on what part of it goes and, to tell you the truth, I never got a straight answer out of Seagate, at the time.

It was proprietary and I never saw any information released on it. May be some around now, but, it's kinda moot, since you can't get the chip anymore (not that they'd sell it to you then either).

If you flip the drive so the logic board is up and the front of the drive is facing you, and the green solder mask is golden brown about two inches to the right of the stepper motor, that's your problem.

The number on this chip is 11665-001 and the date code, on this one, is 8605.

Micom 2000
December 14th, 2008, 08:43 PM
I've got 2 S-225s not workng. I tried the spindle lubricating thing on them both to no avail.
What would I use for a LLF. I tried both DM and Spinrite with no luck.

Lawrence

Chuck(G)
December 14th, 2008, 08:50 PM
I've got 2 S-225s not workng. I tried the spindle lubricating thing on them both to no avail.
What would I use for a LLF. I tried both DM and Spinrite with no luck.

What are you using for a controller? Many controller option ROMs have an entry that will allow LLF.

QuantumII
December 14th, 2008, 11:21 PM
usually a debug G=C800:5 launches the built-in LLF routine

QuantumII
December 14th, 2008, 11:22 PM
It causes all kinds of strange things, depending on what part of it goes and, to tell you the truth, I never got a straight answer out of Seagate, at the time.

It was proprietary and I never saw any information released on it. May be some around now, but, it's kinda moot, since you can't get the chip anymore (not that they'd sell it to you then either).

If you flip the drive so the logic board is up and the front of the drive is facing you, and the green solder mask is golden brown about two inches to the right of the stepper motor, that's your problem.

The number on this chip is 11665-001 and the date code, on this one, is 8605.

Nah, It's healthy green..

Chuck(G)
December 15th, 2008, 08:18 AM
usually a debug G=C800:5 launches the built-in LLF routine

But not always. I've got at least 2 cards here that use G=C800:3, one that uses G=C800:8 and one that requires the formatter to be loaded from diskette. Some old BIOS setup routines could also do LLFs.

Druid6900
December 15th, 2008, 11:33 AM
Nah, It's healthy green..

Probably not finished cooking yet :)

BG101
December 15th, 2008, 05:45 PM
Sorry I didn't mean to sound quite so sharp in my above post. Forgot the roll-eyes smiley :blush:

I'd love to know if newer (non-bandstepper) drives can be revived!




BG

patscc
December 15th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried cementing a heatsink to the chip ? Or do they just burn through the epoxy (kinda like a blown TO92 or TO220 transistor )rather then just overheat ?
patscc

Druid6900
December 15th, 2008, 08:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried cementing a heatsink to the chip ? Or do they just burn through the epoxy (kinda like a blown TO92 or TO220 transistor )rather then just overheat ?
patscc

From what I remember, they don't overheat, they, suddenly, just do a cascade failure.

The PCB discolouration depends a lot on how much of the chip goes nova before the VCC to ground link is lost.

In extreme cases, I've seen boards with just the pins left where the IC USED to be.

The big problem, as I later discovered, was that there was no knowing which datecodes of the chips were more or less prone to failure.

ST-Freakz
January 6th, 2009, 01:13 PM
can anyone advise where best you can lube the spindle on one of these drives?

can't be done from the outside as it's sealed, can't even see the spindle with the lid off.....

Terry Yager
January 6th, 2009, 01:31 PM
That's the gotcha, ya gotta open 'er up (in your A-1000 Clean Room, of course).

--T

Druid6900
January 6th, 2009, 06:01 PM
No, if you remove the 3 screws holding the PCB on (one front center, two back sides when looking at the drive with the PCB up and the front away from you), you can lift the logic board enough to get at the spindle. If you need a bit more space, disconnect the ribbon cable plug (front left) BUT look at it first because one side will have a set of pins that don't go into the connector.

This will allow you to cant the board over to the left at a 90 degree angle.

I like using 3-in-1 oil to lube the spindle.

Ole Juul
January 6th, 2009, 06:15 PM
That's the gotcha, ya gotta open 'er up (in your A-1000 Clean Room, of course).
--T
I remember Scott Mueller of Repairing PC book fame, mentioned that he used to take drive with the lid off to his demonstrations. He said it worked just fine! My guess is it depends on the importance of the data just how clean you need to be. Remember that floppies work. Fatter tracks of course, but still, it's amazing that something that crude can work at all - thanks to error correction.

I've taken the top of an IDE drive for repair and it worked OK after that. I used the same techniques that biologists used to use for doing culture transfer before the fancy filters became affordable. The more modern way of sitting in front of a HEPA filter with the air flow moving towards you will keep out small particles even smaller that spores. It is also relatively cheap to set up, as many amateur mychologists know. :) Anyway, its fun to play around with stuff.

Terry Yager
January 6th, 2009, 07:49 PM
Not having a clean room never stopped me, but then, I'm me. As to lubing the spindle from the outside, what about the other end? I guess halfway is 50% better than nothing, but...

--T

Druid6900
January 7th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Not having a clean room never stopped me, but then, I'm me. As to lubing the spindle from the outside, what about the other end? I guess halfway is 50% better than nothing, but...

--T

3-in-1 is a penetrating oil and will work it's way down the spindle to the bearings, especially if you let it sit there (with the drive up-side-down) for an hour and then power it up.