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QuantumII
January 7th, 2009, 01:47 PM
Hi all

Just recently my luggable Philips Logic Analyzer PC (xt clone with extras)'s 256K ISA card stopped working.

It began with a memory error on boot, and on the next reboot it only counted up to 256k (wich is on-board)

The 8-bit ISA card does not seem to be alive at all, and I cannot find any documentation it..

However, if I move around on the DIP switches on the card the PC does not boot at all, so it does _something_

First I thought that is was just a bad connection between the motherboard and the ISA card, but moving it around in other slots makes no results. the machine still counts up to only 256k both with the card in the slot or without.

I think I may need to replace the card.

There are pictures of the card here: it has 4 large IBM branded chips, each at 64k (I believe) making up a total of 256K.

Front (http://home.online.no/~t-gutteb/256kcardf.jpg)

Back (http://home.online.no/~t-gutteb/256kcardb.jpg)

Have any of you seen this card before, or have any info on it? Is there any other cards of the same type you can recommend ?

Terry Yager
January 7th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Is the card the only memory in the machine?

--T

Druid6900
January 7th, 2009, 08:19 PM
He says the machine counts up to 256K with the expansion board in or out, so, it probably has 256K on board, T.

Get some non-lubricating component cleaner and spray the switches then slide them back and forth and set then up again.

Sounds like it's trying to map the RAM into the same place as the RAM on the MB.

Also, clean the edge connector with a pencil eraser.

If this doesn't work, you may have a bad decoding chip on the card.

Chuck(G)
January 7th, 2009, 08:32 PM
I've got the O&A chapter on that board. Pretty straightforward in spite of the IBM 64Kx9 modules.

You might want to look at the output of VR1 (LM317T). It should measure 8.5v.

The high side of C12 should measure 2.2v

If that checks out, try swapping the modules and see if the POST RAM test goes up higher.

QuantumII
January 7th, 2009, 11:12 PM
I've got the O&A chapter on that board. Pretty straightforward in spite of the IBM 64Kx9 modules.

You might want to look at the output of VR1 (LM317T). It should measure 8.5v.

The high side of C12 should measure 2.2v

If that checks out, try swapping the modules and see if the POST RAM test goes up higher.

Thanks, I'll look at this today. Do you have the Q&A chapter in some electronic sendable format ?

And yes, the machine has 256k onboard, and this extra card. it used to count up to 512k before the card died.

Chuck(G)
January 7th, 2009, 11:28 PM
Thanks, I'll look at this today. Do you have the Q&A chapter in some electronic sendable format ?

And yes, the machine has 256k onboard, and this extra card. it used to count up to 512k before the card died.

I can scan it, if you need it. Just PM me and I'll do the deed and send you a URL to download it.

QuantumII
January 8th, 2009, 06:06 AM
I can scan it, if you need it. Just PM me and I'll do the deed and send you a URL to download it.

PM sent :)

QuantumII
January 10th, 2009, 11:22 AM
I've measured the output from the voltage regulator. It's 10v 5v 10v

C12 is 2,19v

I tried to measure the pin B1 (8,5v) and J1 (GND) on the ram sockets. It's 3,05v (Supposed to be 8,5v.. so this is bad)

J1 and C1 reads 1,1v (Supposed to be -2,2v)

J1 and H1 reads 6,7v (Supposed to be 5v)

Something is screwed up royal here is seems..

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2009, 11:43 AM
Use the machine chassis as your ground reference (not J1) or the black leads on the main motherboard power connector. Redo the measurements. The values you've given don't make sense.

Check the resistance both ways across CR1 (with the card out of the machine). Should be infinity in one direction, but not the other.

per
January 10th, 2009, 11:43 AM
I've measured the output from the voltage regulator. It's 10v 5v 10v

C12 is 2,19v

I tried to measure the pin B1 (8,5v) and J1 (GND) on the ram sockets. It's 3,05v (Supposed to be 8,5v.. so this is bad)

J1 and C1 reads 1,1v (Supposed to be -2,2v)

J1 and H1 reads 6,7v (Supposed to be 5v)

Something is screwed up royal here is seems..

If you can't repair it, you should considering getting a RAM card that uses 4164s. This is because they use easy-to-find RAM IC's (I got over 100 spare just in cause of failure), and that they use the same voltage as the rest of the system so all of them can't fail at the same time, unless your PSU goes crazy.

Druid6900
January 10th, 2009, 01:34 PM
I've measured the output from the voltage regulator. It's 10v 5v 10v

C12 is 2,19v

I tried to measure the pin B1 (8,5v) and J1 (GND) on the ram sockets. It's 3,05v (Supposed to be 8,5v.. so this is bad)

J1 and C1 reads 1,1v (Supposed to be -2,2v)

J1 and H1 reads 6,7v (Supposed to be 5v)

Something is screwed up royal here is seems..

Umm, is this some sort of special regulator?

Shouldn't one one those pins be at ground?

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Umm, is this some sort of special regulator?

Shouldn't one one those pins be at ground?

No -- the LM317 (http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html) is an adjustable unit--the third terminal is connected to a voltage divider between 0v and the output of the regulator.

QuantumII
January 10th, 2009, 02:50 PM
Use the machine chassis as your ground reference (not J1) or the black leads on the main motherboard power connector. Redo the measurements. The values you've given don't make sense.

Check the resistance both ways across CR1 (with the card out of the machine). Should be infinity in one direction, but not the other.

Ok, will do it tomorrow, as the machine has been put back into it's storage space for the evening.

btw, the motherboard has many free rows for RAM IC's.. The problem is, I have no documentation whatsoever on that motherboard. The only manual I have is a Quick Reference guide (it's a program on the HDD) which says that the motherboard is a combined XT-turbo and FDD controller. What is a bit weird is that an XT has only one DIP bank. This MoBo has two... That leaves it to the imagination on how to correctly configure the board for more onboard RAM...

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2009, 04:04 PM
When you've got the system out tomorrow, why not grab a photo of the motherboard while you're at it? Maybe someone will recognize the configuration...

Druid6900
January 10th, 2009, 05:25 PM
No -- the LM317 (http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html) is an adjustable unit--the third terminal is connected to a voltage divider between 0v and the output of the regulator.

Ok, didn't see the LM317 reference. That makes sense now.

QuantumII
January 11th, 2009, 02:33 AM
When you've got the system out tomorrow, why not grab a photo of the motherboard while you're at it? Maybe someone will recognize the configuration...

Yes, I'll do that.

here's a picture of the MoBo:

http://home.online.no/~t-gutteb/mobo_s.jpg

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2009, 09:32 AM
The DRAM setup looks familiar. 2 rows of 256K (41256) DRAM, 4x 64Kx4 (4464) DRAM and 2 64Kx1 (4164) DRAMs.

Have you tried populating the second row of 256K? You should be able to get rid of the RAM card entirely.

QuantumII
January 11th, 2009, 11:12 AM
The DRAM setup looks familiar. 2 rows of 256K (41256) DRAM, 4x 64Kx4 (4464) DRAM and 2 64Kx1 (4164) DRAMs.

Have you tried populating the second row of 256K? You should be able to get rid of the RAM card entirely.

If only I had RAM chips, I could do that.

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2009, 02:37 PM
If only I had RAM chips, I could do that.

Lots of sellers of 256K DRAM chips around. Try eBay search:

"256K DRAM" and "41256".

patscc
January 11th, 2009, 04:23 PM
What's the Varta NiCad for ?
Does it have a RTC onboard ?

patscc

patscc
January 11th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Chuck(G) said...O&A chapter
What's O&A ?
patscc

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2009, 05:11 PM
IBM "Options and Adapters". The multi-volume big boy to the techref. Covers just about anything that IBM made that could be plugged into a PC slot.

You don't see them on eBay all that often.

patscc
January 11th, 2009, 05:35 PM
Chuck(G) said...big boy
Ooohhh...
You wouldn't happen to know if there exists a pdf of it, would you, much like the ones out there for the "Technical Reference" ?

On a similar note, do you happen to know where there's a .txt file of the BIOS listings therein ? I know I could just type in what I need, but I'm a lousy typist.

patscc

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2009, 05:54 PM
Ooohhh...
You wouldn't happen to know if there exists a pdf of it, would you, much like the ones out there for the "Technical Reference" ?

On a similar note, do you happen to know where there's a .txt file of the BIOS listings therein ? I know I could just type in what I need, but I'm a lousy typist.

I saw a set a couple of years ago on eBay--I don't know what it went for, though. Just keep an eye peeled...

QuantumII
January 11th, 2009, 11:17 PM
What's the Varta NiCad for ?
Does it have a RTC onboard ?

patscc

Yes, It's an onboard RTC. It requires a special TSR to work. (It manually updates the DOS clock on every boot)