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Kabull
January 8th, 2009, 01:20 PM
Hi,
Some time ago I've made a decision to build another Hot Rod PC . I want to use as many modern and still available in shops components as possible. The choice isn't that big- 4 PCI slots on MB. The Mb is a Soyo SY-4SAW with 486DX4 120MHz CPU on board and 256MB of RAM in FPM sticks. Hard drive I plan to put into this machine is a 320GB Maxtor Maxline 2 (Bios supports only 8GB but Maxblast should do the job as it does on 386 with 20GB HDD). Now the main question- What should I put into the PCI slots.
Into the first one- Graphic Card- I'm thinking about GeForce 6200 or Radeon 9200 (the PCI ones). I'm a bit worried about the voltage as on the older PCI slots it is a 5V
Second slot- USB card
Third- LAN
Fourth- Sound Card. Which one should I choose?

Ole Juul
January 8th, 2009, 03:01 PM
I'm a bit confused here. How can one make any decisions about hardware without knowing the OS :confused:. The same would apply regarding what the machine is to be used for and the subsequent software you wish to run. :)

Unknown_K
January 8th, 2009, 03:07 PM
Seems you are going overboard, why bother with a fast 3D card on a 486? What OS do you expect to use with this and what kinds of apps or games?

My 486 PCI boards are on the shelf, I prefer to use VLB or EISA ones for more of a challenge. Don't think I bothered with more then 64MB of RAM because I use DOS, OS/2 and Windows for Workgroups that cannot use more then that anyway. For HDs I am stuck with 2GB partitions because of the OS so I stick with 1-4GB HDs and partition as needed (caching IDE controllers, caching SCSI controllers for speed).

I do have some nice early PCI video cards but they go into Pentium machines, where 3D video is actually usefull.

Kabull
January 8th, 2009, 03:37 PM
I plan to use this machine for a word processing, backup, old games (DOS) and audio library in a later stage (Windows 9x). First of all I want to have a "play" with embaded operating systems (Windows 9x/NT, Linux) . I know that it is a bit pointless to put 256MB of RAM and a graphic card with a GPU nearly 4 times faster than CPU when ordinary PCI card would do but the point is to build machine with the spec. set to the manufacturers limit and prove that it is possible.
I had no problems with my last project (386DX@40MHz 128MB RAM 20GB 2MB Mach 32) but this time just don't know what components to choose...

aaron7
February 1st, 2009, 12:24 PM
I've got an ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB in my P233MMX DOS gaming machine. Never saw Duke3d run so smooth :p

I think the 320gb drive is a waste tho.

Unknown_K
February 1st, 2009, 06:54 PM
I've got an ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB in my P233MMX DOS gaming machine. Never saw Duke3d run so smooth :p

I think the 320gb drive is a waste tho.


Duke Nuken is 2d isn't it?

Anonymous Coward
February 1st, 2009, 07:06 PM
How did you get 128mb on a 386? Did you use 16mb 30pin SIMMs, or did you use an old AST with CUPID memory?

I recommend TSENG ET6100 for your 486 if you can find one. 3D on the 486 is almost a waste of time. I have heard that the Voodoo3 2000 PCI has good VESA support, but as far as I know there are no video drivers for Windows 3.1.

aaron7
February 1st, 2009, 08:32 PM
Duke Nukem is 2d. Duke3d is 3d... a first person shooter by 3d Realms.

I have (4) 32mb 30pin SIMMS that I had in my 386. Not easy to come by!

Unknown_K
February 2nd, 2009, 05:14 AM
Duke Nukem is 2d. Duke3d is 3d... a first person shooter by 3d Realms.

I have (4) 32mb 30pin SIMMS that I had in my 386. Not easy to come by!


It is impossible to have 32MB 30 pin SIMMs, 16MB is it. Are you talking 72 pin?

aaron7
February 2nd, 2009, 05:19 AM
No, not impossible. I have 4 literally right in front of me.

computer_recovery
February 2nd, 2009, 05:40 AM
It is impossible to have 32MB 30 pin SIMMs, 16MB is it. Are you talking 72 pin?


Unknown K is correct !! there are no 30 pin 32mb simms!!!

30-pin SIMM: 256 KB, 1 MB, 4 MB, 16 MB

72-pin SIMM: 1 MB, 2 MB, 4 MB, 8 MB, 16 MB, 32 MB, 64 MB, 128 MB, 256 MB


Who manufactered those modules? maybe someone double stacked chips on a after market version or custom version!!1

aaron7
February 2nd, 2009, 05:51 AM
Sorry guys, you're wrong. I have FOUR 32mb 30 pin SIMMS, and I've tested them in my Mac SE and a 486.

I'll get the info for you later. They are not double stacked BTW.

frozenfire75i
February 2nd, 2009, 07:28 AM
I like to build, top of the line systems with the max at the time, Lets say 486 DX2 66Mhz with 32 MB of ram and a 1.7gb drive 2X CD Win 95, that would be enough system for anyone playing pre 3d games..

What you are doing is totaly insane, why in the world would you want to do that and go though all that, Whats the point?










Hi,
Some time ago I've made a decision to build another Hot Rod PC . I want to use as many modern and still available in shops components as possible. The choice isn't that big- 4 PCI slots on MB. The Mb is a Soyo SY-4SAW with 486DX4 120MHz CPU on board and 256MB of RAM in FPM sticks. Hard drive I plan to put into this machine is a 320GB Maxtor Maxline 2 (Bios supports only 8GB but Maxblast should do the job as it does on 386 with 20GB HDD). Now the main question- What should I put into the PCI slots.
Into the first one- Graphic Card- I'm thinking about GeForce 6200 or Radeon 9200 (the PCI ones). I'm a bit worried about the voltage as on the older PCI slots it is a 5V
Second slot- USB card
Third- LAN
Fourth- Sound Card. Which one should I choose?

Unknown_K
February 2nd, 2009, 10:54 AM
Sorry guys, you're wrong. I have FOUR 32mb 30 pin SIMMS, and I've tested them in my Mac SE and a 486.

I'll get the info for you later. They are not double stacked BTW.
Considering the address lines cannot do more then 16MB on a 30 pin SIMM I would like to see how you get 32MB without photoshopping a screen.

A Mac SE is limited to 4MB RAM total. An SE/30 can do 128MB (8 x 16MB 30 pin SIMM).

There are 2MB 30 pin SIMMs I think, along with 8MB they are rare.

dpatten
February 2nd, 2009, 01:48 PM
I like to build, top of the line systems with the max at the time, Lets say 486 DX2 66Mhz with 32 MB of ram and a 1.7gb drive 2X CD Win 95, that would be enough system for anyone playing pre 3d games..

What you are doing is totaly insane, why in the world would you want to do that and go though all that, Whats the point?

I have to agree. I'm building a machine similar to this one using some of my old upgrade-ware including an Octek Hippo 15 Board. (Baby AT, UMC chipset 3 PCI 4 ISA 4 72 Pin SIMM) a Cyrix 5x86 chip and a 4 MB PCI Matrox Mystique 220. With a PCI Soundblaster, 24X CD-ROM and an 8GB hard drive It should perform identically to the hyper-specced one.

I'll dual boot DOS 6.22 and probably Win 98 so I can easily get online.

My one concession to modernity is 4 64 Meg SIMMS for the board max of 256. I may cut that back to 64 MB because the memory takes so damn long to count up.

A 320 GB drive and a 256 Mb video card is just waaay over the top.

computer_recovery
February 2nd, 2009, 03:19 PM
The board has four memory banks with each bank accepting 30 pin modules which will only support 16mb max per bank.

I have searched and found nothing on a 30 pin mod exceeding 16mb due to abbility of it address line..


Hey UNKNOWN_K what photoshopping a screen mean?

Unknown_K
February 2nd, 2009, 06:34 PM
The board has four memory banks with each bank accepting 30 pin modules which will only support 16mb max per bank.

I have searched and found nothing on a 30 pin mod exceeding 16mb due to abbility of it address line..


Hey UNKNOWN_K what photoshopping a screen mean?
It means using Photoshop paint program to fake a screen showing 128MB of RAM using 4 30 pin SIMMs.

Druid6900
February 2nd, 2009, 06:55 PM
If you do a search, you will see that there are still some 32MB {4 x 8} 30-pin SIMMs mentioned and I believe I have a set of 4 around here somewhere as well.

Unknown_K
February 2nd, 2009, 08:40 PM
If you do a search, you will see that there are still some 32MB {4 x 8} 30-pin SIMMs mentioned and I believe I have a set of 4 around here somewhere as well.

I mentioned 8MB sticks in a previous post, the original poster said he had 256MB of RAM using 32MB 30 pin SIMMs (8x 32MB). A 486 could not even cache most of that even if it did exist.

Terry Yager
February 2nd, 2009, 10:43 PM
It means using Photoshop paint program to fake a screen showing 128MB of RAM using 4 30 pin SIMMs.

You know...like when you put your head on Ahnold's body and post it on those dating sites...

--T

Anonymous Coward
February 3rd, 2009, 07:02 AM
I've never heard of 32mb 30-pin SIMMs before, and I can't say I've ever heard of an addressing limit either. At this point I couldn't flat out deny they exist, but I'd have to say finding a motherboard that would accept them would not be easy. Hell, even getting a board to take the 16mb modules can be a challenge. I think it would be interesting if you could show us photos of the SIMMs and motherboard you are using. Close-up shots of the chips would be nice.

Druid6900
February 3rd, 2009, 01:25 PM
I mentioned 8MB sticks in a previous post, the original poster said he had 256MB of RAM using 32MB 30 pin SIMMs (8x 32MB). A 486 could not even cache most of that even if it did exist.

No, 4M x 8 is the strip layout, not 4 strips of 8M

Here is a link for a place that has 32MB, 64MB and even 256MB 30-pin SIMMs

http://computershopper.com/best-prices/category/3038/editorsRating/1/Memory/500061/_500061-5116315_/(offset)/20

gerrydoire
February 3rd, 2009, 03:24 PM
I've got an ATI Radeon 9250 PCI 256MB in my P233MMX DOS gaming machine. Never saw Duke3d run so smooth :p

I think the 320gb drive is a waste tho.

That was a great game!! :-D

Anonymous Coward
February 3rd, 2009, 03:56 PM
I looked at the link you provided, but I think you are mistaken. "4M x 8" on that website does mean eight 4M sticks, or in the case of "8M x 4" four 8M sticks.

Druid6900
February 3rd, 2009, 07:06 PM
I looked at the link you provided, but I think you are mistaken. "4M x 8" on that website does mean eight 4M sticks, or in the case of "8M x 4" four 8M sticks.

You know, I believe you are right, now that I look at it again after you pointed it out and check the number of strips in the pictures with what they are selling.

Oh, NO, I have T-Timers !!!!!!

Terry Yager
February 3rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
I'd probably take offense if I could remember what that means...

--T

aaron7
February 8th, 2009, 05:42 AM
Snapped pics of them. Like I said, they worked fine in my Mac SE30 and my 486.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/aaron7/junk2sell/DSC02486.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/aaron7/junk2sell/DSC02487.jpg

Anonymous Coward
February 8th, 2009, 06:43 AM
Wow, thanks for the pics.

I tried looking up the chips used on those SIMMs, but I haven't found anything yet.

Does your computer actually count up to 256mb?

Where did you get these?

*update* Here's the spec sheet (no data sheet yet)

Specsheet from Mitsubishi Electric Semiconductor

M5M416100AJ7
General Purpose Dynamic RAM - Fst pg mode, Seperate I/O

Number of Words=16M
Bits Per Word=1
t(acc) Max. (S)=70n
tW Min (S)=130n
Output Config=3-State
P(D) Max.(W) Power Dissipation=1
Nom. Supp (V)=5
Package=SOJ
Pins=28
Military=N
Technology=CMOS

aaron7
February 8th, 2009, 09:22 AM
They came from one of those all in one Mac's... the SE/30 I believe.

The PC counts up 128mb, but I'm sure that's what you meant.

Unknown_K
February 8th, 2009, 09:49 AM
Hmm very odd memory, dont see what could use it.

Since I gutted an AT tower case (removed an AT p2-400 MB since I snagged a nice mint gateway p3-450) and I started stuffing a 486 PCI/ISA board in to see what I can do (486-160 currently).

Anonymous Coward
February 9th, 2009, 03:14 PM
According to that spec sheet I have, each chip is supposed to have 16M bits. If I'm doing my math right, with 8 chips you should have 16megabytes total. There must be an error in the spec sheet.

It's a pretty neat find. I doubt I'll ever see a 32mb 30-pin SIMM again.

trag
February 11th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Snapped pics of them. Like I said, they worked fine in my Mac SE30 and my 486.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/aaron7/junk2sell/DSC02486.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/aaron7/junk2sell/DSC02487.jpg


Those are bog standard 16MB SIMMs. The 16M X 8 makes it plain. 16M addresses by 8 bits, or 16 megabytes.

The label is misleading but refers to the manufacturer's part number. That part number is for a 32 MB kit which includes two 16 MB SIMMs.

It is not possible to make a 30 pin SIMM larger than 16 MB. There are only 12 address lines available. If you steal a pin (from the parity pins, e.g.) to add a 13th address line, then you don't have a JEDEC 30 pin SIMM any more, you just have a custom piece of hardware.

And, it wouldn't do you much good, because there are no memory chips with more than 12 address bits available--although you could use a Bus Switch to switch between memory banks.

Anonymous Coward
February 12th, 2009, 08:48 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. I suspected something was off, but I didn't know enough about the technical details to call it out.

But the big question that remains: The poster said his machine counts to 128mb with only 4 SIMMs installed....

trag
February 13th, 2009, 09:44 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I suspected something was off, but I didn't know enough about the technical details to call it out.

But the big question that remains: The poster said his machine counts to 128mb with only 4 SIMMs installed....

Yes, that part I can't help without more information.

But I have no doubts about the SIMMs. Twelve is pretty much the limit in address bits on SIMMs, both 8 bit and 32 bit (30 pin and 72 pin). However, 72 pin SIMMs cheat a bit by having multiple RAS and CAS pins per SIMM which are selectively connected to banks of chips. Without RAS/CAS games, the maximum capacity of a 72 pin SIMM is 16M X 4 bytes = 64 MBytes. However, using the multiple seperate CAS lines multiple banks of chips can be used on the SIMM to double or even quadruple its capacity (128 MB or 256 MB). The catch is that the SIMM and the motherboard must agree on how the CAS pins are grouped, and I've seen motherboard/SIMM combinations which use opposite groupings, resulting in incompatibly.

Okay, that's a big digression. Point is, 16 MB per 30 pin SIMM. 256 MB per 72 pin SIMM and then only if they split all four CAS lines to separate banks.