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Erik
March 4th, 2005, 05:25 PM
It sounds like the guy that wrote the code that MS bought for PC-DOS is pissed at some folks. . .

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/03/msdos_paternity_dispute/

Erik

Terry Yager
March 4th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Ha! I was just reading that article myself.
I just recently read another article somewhere on daNet that had Gary in court somewhere doing some kinda voodoo on a PC running DOS and making a DR copyright notice pop up. I'll hafta see if I can locate that article again.

--T

Terry Yager
March 4th, 2005, 06:13 PM
Ah, yes...here it is: (look under 1982)

http://www.aaxnet.com/info/hist.html

The article also mentions a gag-order, which is why this story isn't more widely circulated.

--T

Terry Yager
March 4th, 2005, 07:12 PM
There's a little more detail in this article too:

http://dfarq.homeip.net/article.php?story=935

--T

joe sixpack
March 4th, 2005, 09:04 PM
1982: Digital Research sued Microsoft and IBM over copyright infringement. Gary Kildall sat down at a fresh IBM PC, typed a few keystrokes and poped up a Digital Research copyright notice. This impressed the Judge. DR won the case, monetary damages, and the right to clone MS-DOS. Microsoft won a gag oder to make sure the public never heard about this case.
:lol: :lol: :lol: LMFAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
everyone knows microsoft steals peoples ideas
some how we let them get so big that it's hard to fight them.
i hope he wins his case however.


http://dfarq.homeip.net/article.php?story=935
a very interesting article i will have to seek out this "GeoWorks" it sounds interesting


Microsoft started bunding Internet Explorer with Windows and offering it as a free download for those who already had Windows, or had an operating system other than Windows, such as Mac OS. In other industries, this is called tying or dumping, and it's illegal
Never heard of "tying or dumping" how can it be illegal if it's free?


"Microsoft Innovation" today means cartoon characters telling you how to indent paragraphs.
:lol: open office is near and dear to me. Clippy Must DIE! :twisted:

Terry Yager
March 4th, 2005, 09:26 PM
a very interesting article i will have to seek out this "GeoWorks" it sounds interesting

Nowadays it's known as New Deal, and should be available for download from thier website. Lookup Geoworks Ensemble also.

--T

joe sixpack
March 4th, 2005, 10:23 PM
a very interesting article i will have to seek out this "GeoWorks" it sounds interesting

Nowadays it's known as New Deal, and should be available for download from thier website. Lookup Geoworks Ensemble also.

--T

ya i found that out, i did'nt know it at the time but i seen "GEO's"
in a junk store but they wanted 5 bucks and i dont know if all the disk's
was there... did'nt now what it was at the time... pretty cool looking.

Terry Yager
March 5th, 2005, 08:04 AM
Yeah, it's pretty kewl. I've never tried the original GEOS on a C=64 or an Apple][, but I have run both GeoWorks Ensemble and New Deal on PC-type hardware. New Deal comes with a pretty complete office suite, including a web browser. Best thing is, it'll run on any kinda PC, even an 8088.

--T

Micom 2000
March 16th, 2005, 02:28 PM
Cool thread.

New Deal is a reworking of DR's GEM which was the pre-Windoze
Graphical Interface used by many MSDOS users. The Atari ST used it.
Apple sued DR and basicly crippled it (I think they made them remove the "Trash" feature and a few other things). Of course the Mac OS itself was a steal of the Xerox Palo Alto labs GUI. They also stole many of the Xerox employees who worked on it. Somehow the Atari ST escaped Apple's wrath.

Since I was an ST fan and loved GEM I tried the original version of Geosworks. At that time it was a free download. Later they change their name to New Deal and developed what I considered a rather pricey office
apps package.

I have and occasionally use the GEOS used on the Commodores. It was
developed by an independent programmer. Commies(C-64ers) vehemently deny that it has any relation to GEM, but it looks and functions almost identicaly to it, and the name itself speaks volumes.
"Looks like a duck, feels like a duck ............."

The article you linked was excellent, but I can feel little sympathy for
the companies Gates ravaged. With the exception of DR they were all
very predatory. Lotus 123 was almost a direct steal from a system
developed by 2 Ottawa Nortel employees. They sued and Lotus kept them
in court for almost 10 years until the suit was dismissed because of a
minor patent technicality. I had one of their work-stations years ago,
but alas, abandoned it on one of my moves. Can't recall the name but
it might have been Lanier. Had the URLs to court docs but they're
buried someplace on one the HDDs in one of my old machines.

Gaby's site (can't find the URL at this moment) has numerous DR GEM versions on his mirror of Tim Olmsteads "The Unofficial CPM site"

Lawrence



Yeah, it's pretty kewl. I've never tried the original GEOS on a C=64 or an Apple][, but I have run both GeoWorks Ensemble and New Deal on PC-type hardware. New Deal comes with a pretty complete office suite, including a web browser. Best thing is, it'll run on any kinda PC, even an 8088.

--T

Terry Yager
March 16th, 2005, 03:54 PM
I don't think GEOS resembles GEM that much -- at least no more so than any other early GUI, like IBM's TopView, Tandy's DeskMate, or even the earliest versions of M$'s Windose. They all have some features which are similar, but they have thier differences too. I don't consider GEOS a ripoff of GEM, but I do believe they share a common ancestor at Xerox. Besides the Atari ST, GEM also appeared as the interface in the Tandy Zoomer, the first PDA, which IIRC, was made by Casio. The early Sharp Wizzard had a similar look too, but I don't recall it's origin.
Gaby's site is located at:

www.gaby.de

But the bad news is that the NewDeal website seems to have disappeared, or been replaced by some kinda search engine's homepage. Mebbe a copy of New Deal Office can be d/l from your favorite abandonware site, or perhaps usenet groups such as alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.old.

--T

Micom 2000
March 16th, 2005, 05:19 PM
I beg to differ. The name itself gives a clue GE(M)OS. When I play with my Commodores I always use GEOS since it is so close to the ST GUI.
IIRC Topview was DR's further none too successful development of GEM.
Deskmate, while it might have some similarities to GEM is clearly different.
Amstrad also used a GEM GUI. I have a copy of Win 1.1 and while it does
show similarities to Palo Alto it is not GEM. I'm sure DR would have sued
MS$ ass off if it had, tho they were seemingly quite lenient to other less
threatning computers such as Atari and Amstrad.

I thought the Atari Portfolio was the first PDA. I have a Sharp PC3000 which I treasure and which was made by the UK co. DIP(?) who earlier
made the Portfolio. I've seen Wizards come up on E-Pay often but
wasn't aware of it's GUI. A new "want" :^} I'll have to check out.

That's unfortunateabout New Deal, but I often wondered if they would survive. I might still have it installed somewhere. I'll have to check out QNX to see if they're still around.

Lawrence



I don't think GEOS resembles GEM that much -- at least no more so than any other early GUI, like IBM's TopView, Tandy's DeskMate, or even the earliest versions of M$'s Windose. They all have some features which are similar, but they have thier differences too. I don't consider GEOS a ripoff of GEM, but I do believe they share a common ancestor at Xerox. Besides the Atari ST, GEM also appeared as the interface in the Tandy Zoomer, the first PDA, which IIRC, was made by Casio. The early Sharp Wizzard had a similar look too, but I don't recall it's origin.
Gaby's site is located at:

www.gaby.de

But the bad news is that the NewDeal website seems to have disappeared, or been replaced by some kinda search engine's homepage. Mebbe a copy of New Deal Office can be d/l from your favorite abandonware site, or perhaps usenet groups such as alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.old.

--T

Terry Yager
March 16th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Well, the best thing about GEOS, (IMHO), is that it runs on 8-bit equipment, something DR et.al. never even attempted. (Then again, there was a version of DeskMate for the Model 4, and another which ran on the CoCo II & III (under OS-9, IIRC)). DR's closest offering was the GSX graphics module which ran under CP/M-80.

--T

Terry Yager
March 16th, 2005, 07:07 PM
I thought the Atari Portfolio was the first PDA

I guess it depends on your definition of PDA. While the Portfolio is definitely earlier, the Zoomer was the first to call itself a PDA, or more precisely, a ZPDA. It was around a couple of years before the Apple Newton even.

http://www.8bit-micro.com/tandy-zoomer-z-pda.htm

I think the Zoomer is more along the lines of what most people think of as a PDA by today's standards. The Atari is more of a "hand-held" or "palm-top", at least by my definition.

--T

Terry Yager
March 16th, 2005, 07:12 PM
I just re-read the page above, and it says that the Zoomer used the GEOS OS, not GEM. My bad... (Of course, if you consider them the same thing, no harm, no foul, eh?)

--T

joe sixpack
March 16th, 2005, 08:56 PM
I thought the Atari Portfolio was the first PDA

I think the Zoomer is more along the lines of what most people think of as a PDA by today's standards. The Atari is more of a "hand-held" or "palm-top", at least by my definition.
I agree the portfolio is a handheld or palmtop as you said, hands down.
I've been wanting to get one of those as they are might intresting machines.
I found a nice one on ebay only to have my ebay fund tapped out for the
time being. Of course now days it's becoming harder to define them.

Terry Yager
March 17th, 2005, 04:45 PM
My g/f just picked up a (Palm OS) PDA with a built-in cellphone (or is it a phone with extra PDA features???)... Yeah, tough to define these days. Even my 2-year-old, obsolete phone has an organizer and even a couple of games built-in. OTOH, my latest "hand-held" is kinda pushing the sub-notebook envelope. It weighs 3.5 lbs. and measures 9.5 x 7 x 2.5", counting the handle. I guess I'll begin using the more generic term "mobile device".

--T

olddataman
March 19th, 2005, 05:21 AM
Hi,
As usual, I have a couple comments to make. First, when I first saw CP/M and got a copy of it and the manuals that went with it, I was not surprised that it looked a great deal like the disk operating system supplied by DEC with the PDP-8 way back in about 1968 or maybe earlier, including DDT and other nice stuff. I have always believed that Gary Killdal got the "blue print" for CP/M from DEC's system and wrote the 8080 code to accomplish the same things. I'm told that he wrote CP/M for Intel long before the Personal Computer era.
Now, about the 8086 Operating system wrtten by the guy from Seattle Computer Products. We used to do a fairly lively business with them in S-100 bus memory boards to install in the Alpha Microsystems computers we sold. The Seattle boards were bank switchable and very reliable. Many other boards on the market were simalarlly switchable but for one reason or another we liked the Seattle boards best. One evening I was talking to the lady that handled orders from dealers and she said that they had an 8086 S-100 bus board working and that one of their people was very close to completion of an operating system similar to CP/M, with some of the things that most annoyed people using CP/M fixed (an example of this is the fact that in CP/M one had to remember to list the destination first and the source last, as in" copy B,A one had to think "copy B FROM A") and things like that. Anyway, this lady I was talking to asked me if I knew of a good 8" disk system and other boards necessary for a complete computer. They were anxious to get their stuff to the market as early as possible. I told them to talk to Bill Godbout and George Morrow and maybe they could do a joint venture and be the frst on the market with a viable sixteen bit system.
That is the last time I heard anythng about the subject, exept that sometrime later I saw their product announcements.
The point is that it sure is a small world
Ray