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Vint
April 24th, 2009, 09:12 PM
I'm at a loss when it comes to even rudimentary knowledge of Apple computers, so I'm looking for a little help. My history is TRS80 to Commodore and right into PC's with DOS then Windows. I'm at a total loss where Apples are concerned.
Here's what I need to know:
I'd like to have a MAC as part of my vintage collection. I've halfway decided on an Apple MAC LCII. If that is not a good choice, please somebody tell me, based on the things listed below that I'd like to do.
What I want to be able to do is to just fiddle around with the OS, learn a little about how the MAC operates, (probably OS7 in this case), and if possible I'd like to be able to run BASIC. I don't even know if a MAC can run a form of the BASIC language. (Like GWBASIC for PC's, or Q-BASIC.) I told you I'm stone dumb about MACs :)
If I can't run some form of BASIC under the MAC OS7 then I really won't bother with the LCII.
I've heard the LCII can run an APPLE IIe card also, if certain conditions are met. That would be a plus. I have an Apple IIe but it's such a big horse, I rarely dig it out and I only have cassette program access for it, no drives. I have a very nice Apple IIc that I'm very pleased with - but I just would like to also have a MAC. I really need color also. I guess the LCII and OS7 is color, duh on me again?
I've spent some Google time with this - but learning MAC's from the ground up is not a quick way to go - (I'm 'bout 20 years behind the game here :)

Next question:
I don't want to buy a monitor. I now run all my 8-bit machines into a video capture card thereby giving me a fine picture right on my modern day monitor. When I want to run my Commodore C-128 in 80 column mode I can go right into the inputs of my capture card. I have inputs for RF, composite, and S-Video which allows me to operate my Atari 600XL, Atari 800XL, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Commodore 128, TI99/4A, Tandy Color Computer 2, Apple IIe, and my Apple IIc.

I did a bit more Googling and it 'appears' all I need would be a DB15 to HD15 adapter and then plug the cord from my PC monitor right into the adapter and on into the MAC LCII.
Am I correct in this?

To summarize my long winded speal:
Is the MAC LCII a good choice for adding a nice vintage MAC to my collection?
or would a different model, for instance the LCIII be a better representation?
Can I find some form of the BASIC language to run on the LCII?
Is a DB15 to HD15 video adapter all that's needed to run the MAC LCII video into my PC monitor?

NeXT
April 24th, 2009, 10:24 PM
Is the MAC LCII a good choice for adding a nice vintage MAC to my collection?
or would a different model, for instance the LCIII be a better representation?
Can I find some form of the BASIC language to run on the LCII?
Is a DB15 to HD15 video adapter all that's needed to run the MAC LCII video into my PC monitor?

1- it's only a 16Mhz 030 and the LC III is only a little faster with no real other improvements. The only other thing you might like about it other than that it's small is that if you can locate one of the Apple IIe PDS cards you can emulate an Apple IIe as well as mount ProDos floppies on Mac OS.
Personally I would go for something on the Macintosh II / Quadra line because you get NuBus slots and a lot more expandability and you can choose between the 020, 030 or the 040.

2-Can't answer this one. I can't find programming software for macs at all.

3-Yes, I have one of those adapters and they work with any monitor I throw at it.

EDIT: Poke around here. (http://www.apple-history.com/) The specs are pretty complete and you can compare systems.

Unknown_K
April 25th, 2009, 12:51 AM
I guess it depends what you want to run on that LC. The LC I,II,III are small and easy to store if that means anything to you.

I prefer the big machines Mac II, IIx, IIfx and the Quadra 800, 840av, 900, 950. Mostly because I stuff them with cards.

tezza
April 25th, 2009, 05:20 AM
Hi Vint,

I'm not knowledgable about Macs either. However, I've got a few Baby Macs because I love their appearance. I consider it iconic.

If you want one of those I would go for the SE/30. it's fast. It's not colour though. I think the only baby mac that is is the Colour Classic II.

I think there was a version of BASIC for the very early Macs. As the Mac was designed to be a consumer item that you didn't need to learn, not a lot of effort went into languages

Tez

dorkbert
April 25th, 2009, 09:10 AM
Mac by and large is considered an appliance computer, so it really doesn't offer much in the way of BASIC and the likes for home users. MPW was the "Apple Sanctioned" environment for writing code for the platform in those days, and carried a stiff price.

Vint
April 25th, 2009, 03:16 PM
Next < Thanks, the ref. link was good and I spent some time looking around there. That gives me a much better overall view of the MAC over time. My needs with the MAC are simple so I'd be ok with the LCII specs. I've located what's referred to as Chipmunk BASIC that is usable on MAC's for BASIC programming.
So the DB15 to HD15 adapter will allow me to plug my PC monitor into the adapter and the adapter into the MAC LCII RGB video out connector. That seems too simple. I was thinking somebody would say that's wrong, but I guess it works! That's surprising.

UnknownK < Yes I do prefer a small footprint and I won't be needing any extra cards really, excepting for maybe the PDS Apple IIe emulator card.

Tez < I thought a while on the MAC SE but then decided that I don't want to have another monitor. A CRT tube that's well over 20 years old is shaky ground. I prefer just the pizza box style of the LCII sitting under my PC monitor. That will be convenient. Also, I want some color.

dorkbert< Well, that explains the lack of BASIC choices for programming. I didn't know Apple people were so 'different' from the rest. I enjoyed BASIC and it's many variations on the old 8-bits and then on into the DOS era.

I have plenty of food for thought now, and the LCII still is looking good to me. Thanks guys :)

niteshooter
April 28th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Hmm, the LC II is ok but it is rather limited. It also runs at pretty much the same speed as an LC with the 68020 cpu. Both can also only access 10mb of ram total even though the LC II has more onboard memory than the LC.

The LC III is faster and takes a single 72 pin simm instead of the two 30 pin simms found in the previous LC's. The LC 475/605 has a faster 68040 cpu and the single 72 pin simm slot will take up to a 128mb simm. They aren't too common but it can do this.

That Apple II card is supposed to work in all versions of LC.

But you might also want to look at an SE/30, no Apple card but it can run AU/X.

Kevin

Unknown_K
April 29th, 2009, 12:22 AM
I think the LC3 is the first model that has 32bit memory path (not castrated). If you want an LC a III,III+, 475 etc is the way to go.

Vint
May 4th, 2009, 03:22 PM
I think I've now got what I want, through some 'compromising' :)
Bought this MAC 1400cs off eBay for $20.
Now, this certainly isn't vintage classic MAC, but it's going to serve my purposes and make me happy - and isn't that enough?

I wanted to poke around in an older form of the MAC OS, just to learn something different from the Windows I've known for soooo many years. (This MAC came with OS 8.1)

It has a CD drive that swaps out with a floppy drive.
I will be able to install Chipmunk BASIC on here and play with that.
Small and compact, I think it will become a nice addition to my collection and will even become 'vintage' in another 10 years or so :)
Maybe down the road I'll get a classic MAC, but for now, this fills the bill.
So, my Macquest is done - for right now.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=310

Sometimes, with me anyhow, there's a need to combine my interest in fairly pure vintage gear (1977-1987) with what I actually want to do with this old stuff. If I were just 'collecting' then I'd concentrate strictly on those years - but, I need to play with the gear on a regular basis. I like being able to incorporate some of today's technobilities with yesterday's machines. I really enjoy my Commodore 1541 hooked through the XA1541 adapter to my PC. I like running my 8-bit machines through a capture card into my PC's monitor. I believe using modern gadgets to utilize vintage machines more fully, is really a fun part of the hobby of collecting vintage machines.

barythrin
May 4th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Figure that site will help you with collector intrigue atleast so glad someone posted a link to it. Other than that if you want your fun little vintage stepping stone between the Apple/Mac world the IIgs works well and can read the 720K disks and be a nice middle man between the two worlds.

The Apple II emulator card would be fun of course or if your wallet is from the thicker variety ;-) a Lisa of course is always worth it's weight.

cosam
May 4th, 2009, 03:41 PM
I believe using modern gadgets to utilize vintage machines more fully, is really a fun part of the hobby of collecting vintage machines.
Absolutely! One of the reasons I like these old machines is the insight it gives you into how things were done back in the day. But when it comes to actually getting things done, why limit yourself to vintage equipment when you can take advantage of the speed and convenience of modern kit?

NeXT
May 4th, 2009, 04:28 PM
The Apple II emulator card would be fun of course or if your wallet is from the thicker variety ;-).

Since when did they become expensive? I got mine for $25 two years ago.

barythrin
May 5th, 2009, 07:33 AM
Pretty good, I haven't tracked the prices of the II emulator cards but I love having emulation via hardware on any system. The thicker wallet comment was for the Lisa though ;-)