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linuxlove
May 5th, 2009, 12:41 PM
._. this is something that has been ticking me off for a good while. First: the router is not mine, it's my parents so don't say "DD-WRT THAT ROUTER NAO"; i don't want to brick it.

Using the stock firmware, you CANNOT use a static IP address when the router is set to DHCP. For some things, I NEED a static IP, like for *cough*bittorrent*cough* yet the router won't let me... :sneaky::mad:

Not much of a rant, but this is what i feel over a WRT54G :sneaky::sneaky:

barythrin
May 5th, 2009, 12:53 PM
You shouldn't need any specific IP for torrents to be honest. Most folks are sitting behind the same unit, all that occurs is it probably drops incoming requests to download the stuff from you which really just makes things more secure for you. Your system requesting the file from other folks and the returned request still works fine.

But I'm not sure why it wouldn't allow traffic out either, maybe it's being secure. You have your gateway set to the routers IP when you set your IP manually? Netmask, etc all correctly set?

Assuming you're on a 192.168.x.x network you'd set it similar to ip: 192.168.0.5 (we'll just pretend we're the 5th computer on the network and the router is probably .1). netmask/subnet: 255.255.255.0, gateway/route:192.168.0.1.

You should be able to ping the router still, then try an nslookup on a website (this may also be your problem since your system was probably using the router previously for looking up ip addresses for websites). If it fails you'll need to find out what your ISP uses for a nameserver and try hard coding those also.

- John

barythrin
May 5th, 2009, 12:58 PM
btw, I applaud your age and doing networking on that level :-) It wasn't common when I was that young and I played with dumber ..er.. "simpler" technology so I was connecting my systems via null modem connections and interlnk/intersrv in dos for my poor man's network before I finally had a job and shelved out some money for our first "SOHO" setup. My friend who worked at a tech shop of course we had all previously been doing a 10-baseT token ring set up as his house until we got some better non-ring gear and all finally forked out the money for network cards.

Either way, I remember trying to figure out all this networking lingo and how it was often frustrating and confusing. Now of course career wise it's essential so anyway.. rant aside that's great to be doing this stuff at your age!

- John

patscc
May 5th, 2009, 01:36 PM
So get your hands on another router. Set that router up for manual IP on your side, run the router WAN connection to your "official" line from your "official" parent's router, and you should be good to go. It's not really gonna matter how many routers you go through before you get the the outside. Then you can do what you want with your router. Basically what an ISP does, only on a smaller scale.
patscc

Vlad
May 5th, 2009, 03:28 PM
It doesn't let you do that for a reason. If you use a static IP that's within the range of the DHCP settings the DHCP server could assign that IP to something causing an IP Conflict. The WRT series are consumer routers so that's in place to prevent people from making a mess that Tech Support has to sort out. Enterprise class routers will let you do that since they usually have a small OS such as Cisco's IOS that knows better than to do that. The RTOS on a WRT though is ment to be small so it just won't let you to begin with.

Patscc, I've seen some ISP's detect more than one router running and redirect you to a page whining about it. I think AT&T and a few others do this. Its worth a shot though if you want to go that route.

Also I agree, knowing this stuff at your age is pretty cool. :cool:

Dreamcast270mhz
May 5th, 2009, 05:33 PM
if you reset the router, it will give out default passwords like: admin/admin, admin/password, etc. And you can static IP almost any system, i did it for my parent's old router, snuck on their pc's and gave them static IP's, then there was no issue. If you already have access into the software of the router, usually achieved by typing the default 192.168.1.1, i'm 15 so I am NO network specialist, then sometimes in some routers you can set the DHCP range. So you can then hopefully take the advice of the otehrs. Hey it works for me :)

patscc
May 5th, 2009, 05:54 PM
Vlad said...more than one router running
The setup OP has now doesn't sound that fussy, it sounds more like the ISP looks at the MAC of what's on the DSL line, and is happy. Although as Vlad pointed out, it's certainly something to be aware of, and might require a bit of fiddling with the MAC address cloning.


Dreamcast270mhz said...if you reset the router,
I wouldn't do that. If the router is set up to establish the DSL link with the user account info, and if it does any MAC address cloning, then all that's gone, and OP will have to deal with potentially aggravated parents.

So much knowledge at such a young age is dangerous, my friend. By the time you reach high school, you'll be able to talk to all your instructors and have their eyes glaze over in nothing flat. :)

patscc

Dreamcast270mhz
May 5th, 2009, 06:00 PM
I am in high school and what they teach is BS. I have a westell modem/wireless router on verizon DSL and I reset it all the time, then again i have never used a linksys router and done what I've, said on tahtbrand, but it caused no issues for me.

Vlad
May 5th, 2009, 06:15 PM
If he uses PPoE he'd have to use login information to get a connection. Besides blindly resetting a device like a router is a bad idea. A hard reset like that should only be done if necessary. Each ISP does things differently. Like mine just auto assigns everything but others require login credentials. Some even go as far as registering MAC addresses but that is rather rare anymore thankfully.

chuckcmagee
May 5th, 2009, 07:09 PM
Huh? When I had the normal firmware in there, I made my desktop 192.168.1.100, and started the DHCP in the router at 101. Worked fine then, works fine now with DD-WRT in there.

Ole Juul
May 5th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Perhaps I missed something (who me?) but my WRT54GL is set up to do both static and DHCP. I would guess the WRT54G would look much the same. The "basic setup" page allows you to chose the number of DHCP clients and a starting address. In my case:

DHCP server (enable)
Starting IP Address (192.168.1.50)
Max Number of DHCP users (10)

That gives me 192.168.1.50 to 192.168.1.59 as my DHCP range. Everything outside that range is available for static.
The max and min is calculated from the netmask. Use the default 255.255.255.0 and you can use 254 addresses. That's a "/24" and is easiest because you don't have to recalculate netmask and broadcast and it's a common default etc. However, I'm sure you can figure out how to do that anyway. Especially if you go here: http://jodies.de/ipcalc which is an online version of ipcalc. Note that in my case the range is 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254.

PS: "Static IP on a Linksys WRT54G network (http://www.patheticcockroach.com/mpam4/index.php?p=68)" might be a useful link.

patscc
May 5th, 2009, 09:20 PM
I concur, however, it kinda sounded like the owner(s) of the router didn't want OP mucking around with it.
patscc

Ole Juul
May 5th, 2009, 09:47 PM
Ya, I suppose you gotta be careful when you're living at home. :) However, this is pretty beneign. All you need to do is change the "Max Number of DHCP users" to something less than 254 and you have space for static.

Actually, in reality I believe the default is 50. Unless this a particularly large household (lol) that probably hasn't been changed. In a default install there are then 204 addresses available for static use. So ... he probably doesn't have to change anything in the router. That is what would be the case with my WRT54GL and from the information on the link I gave, also the case with the WRT54G.

BTW: Just to clarify, the router has an outlooking DHCP client and and inward looking DHCP server.

Dr_Acula
May 5th, 2009, 10:24 PM
I've recently made some changes to my home network as part of the experiments getting a vintage computer online and I had all the computers as dynamic and needed to change them all to static. The following is for windows, but while it is all fresh in my mind:
1) turn on every computer on your network
2) Go to each computer and in Run type cmd and then run ipconfig. Note the number that the router has dynamically assigned to this computer. If you are going to pick a static #, may as well make it the same.
3) Start/settings/control panel/network settings. Right click on the network connection, properties and click on internet properties TCP/IP and go to Properties. Make the IP address the same as the one ipconfig gave you (usually 192.168.1.x or in my case 192.168.2.x). Subnet mask 255.255.255.0. Default gateway is the router 192.168.1.1. Also go down to Use the following DNS server addresses and make that the same as the router setting.
4) You might need to double check firewalls, eg I set zonealarm to allow the range of addresses 192.168.n.0 to 192.168.n.255
5) Do this on all machines.
6) Turn everything off including the router and then turn it all on again but with the computers in a different order and run ipconfig just to check the numbers are as you set them.
7) If you are using "the program that must not be named", check out portforward and find out the port your program is using and open up that port in the router.

lutiana
May 5th, 2009, 11:30 PM
Using the stock firmware, you CANNOT use a static IP address when the router is set to DHCP. For some things, I NEED a static IP, like for *cough*bittorrent*cough* yet the router won't let me... :sneaky::mad:


I am confused. There are 2 ips on the router, one is the public IP and the other is the private IP.

The public IP is the one the ISP gives you, and is seldom static (unless you pay for it). This is done to stop you from running things like a web server or other service that may make you money from their connection. For Bit Torrent this would not need to be static.

The Private IP on the router itself is static, it has to be. The IPs it hands out via DHCP are not. But this is easy to fix. Simply set a static IP on the machine with network settings in Windows. Some routers allow you to setup static DHCP assignments based on MAC addresses, but I don't think the linksys routers do this out of the box.

Let your machine get an IP from the router, then do a
ipconfig /all
Write these settings up, then put them into your TCP/IP settings in windows, just change the last 3 digits of the IP to something high (like 220, but keep the rest the same).

Now, as far as bit torrent goes, there is no need to change settings on the router, BUT to speed up the transfers you can setup a port forward to your machines new static IP. This helps alot. My is set to port 42954 (not sure if this is standard).

I personally use a Linksys WRT54G as a wireless access point only, and have a home built Smoothwall (http://www.smoothwall.org/) router. Its free, very customizable and works on very low hardware requirements. Mine is running on a Celeron 300 w/ 256mb of Ram and a 6gb Hard drive.

Hope this helps ya in your networking endeavors.

lutiana
May 5th, 2009, 11:36 PM
3) Start/settings/control panel/network settings. Right click on the network connection, properties and click on internet properties TCP/IP and go to Properties. Make the IP address the same as the one ipconfig gave you (usually 192.168.1.x or in my case 192.168.2.x).


This could cause conflicts. If a computer is set to a static IP of 192.168.1.100, and that IP is in the DHCP Range then you will most likely end up with a conflict at some point (when the lease is up).

I'd add make the number at the end higher than 200 (but not higher than 250). Since the DHCP server assigns IPs from the pool in numeric order, the chances of a higher number being handed out is slim (unless you happen to have 200+ computers on your network, which I doubt).

I just realized that I have spent way too much time working on networks and not enough time on older machines.

Dr_Acula
May 5th, 2009, 11:46 PM
Good advice there. Start at 200 and work up?

I'm not an expert on networks, but I have a colleague who does this for a living and every time I ask him a question I make a note of the answer.

You don't need an external static IP for torrents as the torrent program "announces" your IP from time to time anyway. As an aside, you do need something static to allow others to telnet into your vintage computer, and I've gone for dyndns which is a little program that checks for changes. And I even found my router can do dyndns itself so I can have a static IP without having to leave a PC running. But that is another story.

I presume our original poster has full access to the router - password etc?

And I just noticed our original poster has a username that suggests linux may be the operating system of choice, so I hope all the above advice with ipconfig etc is still helpful.

lutiana
May 5th, 2009, 11:47 PM
As a refernce, here is how my network is setup:



Internet ------ Smoothwall ----- WRT54G -> <-Wireless clients
|
Wired Clients


I have a teenage daughter, she is not allowed to do certain things on the internet, so my smoothwall blocks almost all outgoing traffic by default, but I have an exception list (of IPs). My computer, my server, my wifes computer and our laptops all get a static IP assigned by DHCP (based on their MAC addresses).

This means my wife and I can do anything we want on the net, but as soon as my daughter tries to run something like, say AIM it is blocked. The Smoothwall also does active content filtering on websites she wants to go to. For instance all pornographic sites are blocked via a combination of blacklisting and content sensing (attempts are also logged and sent to me via email).

Its very effective, and its all runs at 1000Mbit :D

I intend to swap out my Smoothwall for an Untangle server (http://www.untangle.com/). Its a similar concept, but a little better on the content filtering and overall routing. Requires more power though. But it is also free.

lutiana
May 5th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Good advice there. Start at 200 and work up?


Well as I said it will lead to less problems, unless you know the static pool range, in which case pic a number outside of it. I think the Linksys default settings for DHCP is a pool of 50 IPs starting at .100.

In a large network, you would actually have a range of static IPs and one of DHCP addresses. For instance, my DHCP IPs are 192.168.1.100 - 192.168.1.200. My static ones are 192.168.1.1 - 192.168.1.50, and my staticly assigned IPs are 192.168.1.99 - 192.168.1.51 (working down from 100). So a simply IPConfig will tell me exactly where the IP came from.

I find that network printers run much better with static IPs, and so do other network attached devices (like a NAS), but in theory if your internal DNS server is working correctly with your internal DHCP server it should make no difference as all the host names would resolve correctly.



You don't need an external static IP for torrents. You do need something static to allow others to telnet into your vintage computer, and I've gone for dyndns which is a little program that checks for changes. And I even found my router can do dyndns itself so I can have a static IP without having to leave a PC running. But that is another story.


I use ZoneEdit, but dynamic DNS is easy to setup and maintain.




I presume our original poster has full access to the router - password etc?

He would not really need to make any changes on the router. But I got the impression that his parents don't want him to touch it.

patscc
May 5th, 2009, 11:55 PM
linuxlove complained...This is done to stop you from running things like a web server

You don't need a static IP, you just need something that maps your current IP to your domain.
Check this out:
http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/

patscc

Ole Juul
May 6th, 2009, 12:35 AM
lutiana: I think the Linksys default settings for DHCP is a pool of 50 IPs starting at .100.
That is correct for both the WRT54GL and the WRT54G. So that means 192.168.1.150 to .254 is clear as well as .2 to .99.

chuckcmagee
May 6th, 2009, 05:01 AM
That is correct for both the WRT54GL and the WRT54G. So that means 192.168.1.150 to .254 is clear as well as .2 to .99.

Yes, it does. I routinely pick some number out of that available range for a short term static IP address, like .37 or .44. The only reason I moved the DHCP default range in the router was because I had already setup the desktop with a static 192.168.1.100, so was easier to add one to the default range. I could have just as easily made the desktop .99 or .2 or.....

TandyMan100
May 6th, 2009, 05:39 AM
btw, I applaud your age and doing networking on that level :-) It wasn't common when I was that young and I played with dumber ..er.. "simpler" technology so I was connecting my systems via null modem connections and interlnk/intersrv in dos for my poor man's network before I finally had a job and shelved out some money for our first "SOHO" setup. My friend who worked at a tech shop of course we had all previously been doing a 10-baseT token ring set up as his house until we got some better non-ring gear and all finally forked out the money for network cards.

Either way, I remember trying to figure out all this networking lingo and how it was often frustrating and confusing. Now of course career wise it's essential so anyway.. rant aside that's great to be doing this stuff at your age!

- John
I might create a wired network in my house... not quite sure yet if RS has 10-foot Ethernet cables ;-p

Probably gonna use it to dock my workstation and soon-to-be-briefcase PC (sometime this year when my neighbors give me their old 98 machine, will use ubuntu).

barythrin
May 6th, 2009, 07:27 AM
I was under the assumption he was going to try and dmz his torrent system or port forward an external incoming port to his system and didn't want the IP to change.

Maybe a big assumption. Either way, it's not *really* necessary although yes sharing in mind you'd have an easier time and be able to seed all those linux iso downloads, etc to the other folks in that configuration.

linuxlove, still with us? ;-) Feel free to comment or ask questions as this thread may have run away or gotten a bit over complicated.

- John

lutiana
May 6th, 2009, 07:52 AM
I was under the assumption he was going to try and dmz his torrent system or port forward an external incoming port to his system and didn't want the IP to change.


Unless you a very solid software firewall system I would strongly caution against the use of a DMZ for any machine. This will essentially put what ever machine directly on the internet, and the last I read a computer on the net without protection will only last about 21 minutes before it is overrun with viruses/spy ware/bots.

Its much better and safer to simply open the individual ports to certain machines.

barythrin
May 6th, 2009, 08:00 AM
I would strongly caution against the use of a DMZ for any machine. This will essentially put what ever machine directly on the internet, and the last I read a computer on the net without protection will only last about 21 minutes before it is overrun with viruses/spy ware/bots.

Its much better and safer to simply open the individual ports to certain machines.

Yup. Agree 100% and that time frame is still pretty accurate from the latest stuff I've read.

Chuck(G)
May 6th, 2009, 12:03 PM
On a related subject, has anyone had any luck getting DDWRT onto an Actiontec MI424WR FIOS router? There's a wiki for it on the web, but not much anecdotal stuff.

Ole Juul
May 6th, 2009, 01:27 PM
TandyMan100: I might create a wired network in my house... not quite sure yet if RS has 10-foot Ethernet cables ;-p
I don't know about RS (usually outrageously expensive) but the dollar stores have 15 foot ones for CDN$2,50. Same quality.

patscc
May 6th, 2009, 03:40 PM
Ole Juul said...RS (usually outrageously expensive)
I don't think there's anything that's cheaper at RatShack then elsewhere, unless it's during a store-closing sale.
patscc