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Terry Yager
April 7th, 2005, 09:59 PM
Who says beggars can't be choosers?

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/donateArtifact/dnw.shtml

I wouldn't mind catching some of thier overflow...

--T

Erik
April 8th, 2005, 10:23 AM
They don't really have "overflow" but their store rooms are packed with goodies.

There are several machines not on the list that I expec should and will be eventually. . .

Erik

joe sixpack
April 8th, 2005, 06:30 PM
boy they got some balls rejecting stuff givin too them.
one thing i can't stand it's that.

i dont have anything they want but would'nt give it to them anyway

EvanK
April 26th, 2005, 08:34 PM
That's ridiculous, Joe. You need to understand how serious musuems work. They can't just accept everything. CHM has a small staff and insanely complicated tax / non-profit stuff (i.e., laws, paperwork, etc.) for every item in their collection. Mostly they accept large collections, not one-off items, so the result is that they get a lot of duplicates. In turn, they need to focus on the most historically significant items; the backlog of items they still need to document dwarfs what's in the visible storage area. So please do not take their policy to mean that they don't value your personal collection items. They simply are bound by reality and policy. (Have you visited the museum? If not, then you should, before making a comment like that...)

Terry Yager
April 26th, 2005, 09:08 PM
That's ok if they don't have room for anymore Altairs, etc. I can understand the problem. However, if anybody needs to donate anything on thier "not wanted" list, I'll be happy to give it a good home.

--T

joe sixpack
April 26th, 2005, 09:52 PM
So please do not take their policy to mean that they don't value your personal collection items. They simply are bound by reality and policy. (Have you visited the museum? If not, then you should, before making a comment like that...)

can't/won't visit. 2000 mile drive to CA. i can't say for sure but if they are like
any other musium then will discard one "artifact" once another one in better
shape or a better example comes along. I dont have any thing they would
want, HA i doubt i have anything anyone would want!

anyway i guess my mind works a little different then most other people here.
i do understand they can't take everything. but if i had a apple I (i do not have or want one)
i would'nt give it to them. i know that sounds unreasonable but it's my right to that opinion.
I guess as terry said beggars can't be choosers, i take very serious.

mryon
April 27th, 2005, 08:52 AM
sure, you certainly have every right to your opinion....

but you are angry with the CHM becuase they can no longer dispose of someone's Apple ][+ for them anymore...come on man.

Try taking something to the Salvation Army, they refuse all sorts of stuff because they have no use for it. They just don't have the resources to deal with stuff that no one wants anymore. They are not an alternative to recycling or the dump.

Nor is the Computer History Museum.

carlsson
April 27th, 2005, 08:54 AM
But if you had an Apple I and did not know their policy to say no to common items, would you consider to donate it?

Maybe the museum can collect a list of other collectors and want-havers so when someone turns up with already preserved stuff, they gently can redirect the donor to the list. Or eBay, whichever the donor finds more easy to handle. In the end some items may end up as landfill anyway, if no-one is willing to take it for free, i.e. first generation Pentium with small hard disks in bad condition.

mryon
April 27th, 2005, 08:57 AM
That's exactly what I was about to say.

I would love to give a home to any HP calc that someone tried to drop off.




Maybe the museum can collect a list of other collectors and want-havers so when someone turns up with already preserved stuff, they gently can redirect the donor to the list. Or eBay, whichever the donor finds more easy to handle. In the end some items may end up as landfill anyway, if no-one is willing to take it for free, i.e. first generation Pentium with small hard disks in bad condition.

Terry Yager
April 27th, 2005, 09:11 AM
If I had an Apple I, I'd sell it and buy a houseboat.
Seriously tho, that ain't a bad idea about keeping a list of folks who will adopt unneeded old computer stuff. I'd much rather see a list like that on the CHM's page than a list of stuff they no longer want. Mebbe someone could email them with the suggestion?

--T

joe sixpack
April 27th, 2005, 10:39 AM
sure, you certainly have every right to your opinion....

but you are angry with the CHM becuase they can no longer dispose of someone's Apple ][+ for them anymore...come on man.
angry is a stong word i have no feelings about CHM.
they can come & go, thrive & die for all i care.


Try taking something to the Salvation Army, they refuse all sorts of stuff because they have no use for it. They just don't have the resources to deal with stuff that no one wants anymore. They are not an alternative to recycling or the dump.

Nor is the Computer History Museum.
thats very true! i never really thought of dumping junk on a museum.
i was under the impressoin that most donations was from private collectors
looking for a little credit & hoping they will take good care of the machine always.


But if you had an Apple I and did not know their policy to say no to common items, would you consider to donate it?
i doubt it, if i had a apple I it would only be to hold onto it for future sale.
i have no desire in that machine i just used it as a rare example.
Still i get your meaning. my comments are comming directly from art/history museums.
You see they take donations and then when a better example comes along
they sell the piece off at auctions. i'd be pretty pissed if i gave them something rare or
not and they turn around and sell it. i'd rather sell/give it to someone who will take care of it.

if i had a truck load of apple I's they would take every last one of them
because they are rare. however they would'nt be rare if i had a truck load.
but my point is they dont mind keeping duplicates if they are rare. kinda a double standard.


Maybe the museum can collect a list of other collectors and want-havers so when someone turns up with already preserved stuff, they gently can redirect the donor to the list. Or eBay, whichever the donor finds more easy to handle. In the end some items may end up as landfill anyway, if no-one is willing to take it for free, i.e. first generation Pentium with small hard disks in bad condition.
thats a great idea! if that was there policy. they are not loaded down with crap
they dont want and they direct it to a good home assuming the person donating
is trying to offload junk other wise they prob just keep it.

EDIT: ment to squeeze in freecycle.
if a junkstore wont take a machine or anything for that matter.
why not give it away to someone on Freecycle (http://www.freecycle.org)
theres prob one in your area. i just picked up a box of cpu's yesterday.
and it's not just a good source of stuff it's also a great way to get rid of stuff too!

EvanK
April 27th, 2005, 11:52 AM
>>>> Maybe the museum can collect a list of other collectors and want-havers so when someone turns up with already preserved stuff, they gently can redirect the donor to the list.

Well, they do, in a way. The people are CHM are VERY aware of our hobby. For starters, they host the annual Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org). Also, VCF owner Sellam Ismail's day job is "software curator" at CHM. And no one (sorry, Erik) better represents our hobby than Sellam. Trust me, when something juicy shows up that CHM can't accept, Sellam will smell it a mile away and ping the right people.

CHM is connected to our hobby in other ways as well. Head curator Dag Spicer is a frequent classiccmp user, I often get stuff from their PR guy to include in Computer Collector Newsletter; and Executive Director/CEO John Toole gets involved with other museums and the university world too (such as the IEEE "Annals of the History of Computing" journal).

mryon
April 27th, 2005, 01:36 PM
you are quite right about freecycle.
I wish I always remembered to make better use of them.

Really good stuff that.



if a junkstore wont take a machine or anything for that matter.
why not give it away to someone on Freecycle (http://www.freecycle.org)
theres prob one in your area. i just picked up a box of cpu's yesterday.
and it's not just a good source of stuff it's also a great way to get rid of stuff too!

Erik
April 27th, 2005, 02:23 PM
Also, VCF owner Sellam Ismail's day job is "software curator" at CHM. And no one (sorry, Erik) better represents our hobby than Sellam.

Trust me, no apologies needed. I agree completely! :)


Trust me, when something juicy shows up that CHM can't accept, Sellam will smell it a mile away and ping the right people.

I wonder if he's under any restrictions as an employee. . . I know he has space issues of his own! :)

As for the list idea, there is a geographical/interest based list of collectors willing to accept donations (I don't have the link handy here at work) that could be linked to by the museum. . . not sure they'd want to, though.

Erik

carlsson
April 27th, 2005, 05:02 PM
It would not need to be a public email list, more like the coordinator at the museum picks a few or gives the whole list to the donor. Of course everyone who signed up on the list knows how it is used, but if Sellam already works in a similar way, maybe the list doesn't need to be done, only a way for new, serious enthusiasts to get onto the list.

Re: one Apple I or a truckload of Apple I, it reminds me of an episode with Donald Duck finding a rare coin or something. He gets it evaluated for a lot of money, and mentions to Uncle Scrooge who can find him a small tube of such coins. Donald feels rich and cash it all in. In the mean time, Uncle feels like donating and while cleaning out his vault, finds a whole sack of the rare coins which he sells cheaply or even gives to Donald. At the third time he goes to the antiques store, the owner pledges him to bury the sack in the back yard. One coin = rare, a tube = uncommon, a sack = more common than everyone and his dog.

OTOH, I'm not sure how many Apple I:s there ever was made, if the number of units not recycled to make Apple II:s (??) would be enough to fill a truckload.

EvanK
April 28th, 2005, 11:11 AM
I'm aware of the existing list Erik mentions -- but I can't recall the URL either -- and that is sort of the moral today: the same topic has come up before, especially at classiccmp.org, and it will come up again. Same goes for "what is vintage" and plenty of other topics.

The problem, I think, is that too many well-intended people start independent efforts to "save" the hobby, without doing their homework on what already exists and what's already been tried (or failed). Carlson, I'm singling you out, just saying that this happens all the time. :)

I hope I was clear in the previous message -- that CHM is plenty aware of our hobby and, trust me, they won't let good stuff go to waste just because of some red tape.

Another bit of good news is that several editors and columnists at the San Jose Mercury News are also well aware of our community. Same goes for BusinessWeek, CNET, Wired, eWeek, and others -- all of these mainstream publications write about our hobby sometimes, and all have a few specific people who are "in the loop" with some of the hobby's de facto leaders. (Think: Erik, Sellam, Bruce Damer, about a dozen other people who I'm probably forgetting right now, even -- dare I say -- myself.)

To be clear: I'm certainly NOT against new and independent efforts to create fresh hobby resources. In fact I'm all for that. The more people who get involved with popularizing our hobby, the better off we'll all be. (That's in spite of an anti-eBay minority who feel they have the right to say who is and isn't a legitimate collector.)

carlsson
April 28th, 2005, 03:05 PM
To clarify, my intention was not to find _the_ solution to an issue that already turns out to partially solved, but rather to sooth Joe Sixpack's apparently hurt feelings about CHM.

Micom 2000
April 28th, 2005, 09:50 PM
Also, VCF owner Sellam Ismail's day job is "software curator" at CHM. And no one (sorry, Erik) better represents our hobby than Sellam.

Trust me, no apologies needed. I agree completely! :)

I'm not sure that even Sellam would agree with that. He is irrascible and has many critics. I generally agree with him, but he is not exactly a peacemaker. He once was known as Sam and had wildly flaming encounters on the Apple newsgroup for years and the classiccmp maillist as well. I love him dearly but his old sig defined him and fits myself I must admit. "Occasional asshole". But no one can doubt his devotion to computer collecting and history.


Trust me, when something juicy shows up that CHM can't accept, Sellam will smell it a mile away and ping the right people.

I wonder if he's under any restrictions as an employee. . . I know he has space issues of his own! :)

As for the list idea, there is a geographical/interest based list of collectors willing to accept donations (I don't have the link handy here at work) that could be linked to by the museum. . . not sure they'd want to, though.

Erik

Sure, I can see it now:
" I don't have room at the moment for your Apple I, Imsai, or Altair, I'll get back to you".

I tried to find a link to them. I have it somewhere. It was the Classic Comp Rescue Group. To my knowledge they still exist and an URL to them could quickly be found, I'm sure, from Classiccmp.

Lawrence