PDA

View Full Version : The esoteric art of LANS



Micom 2000
May 6th, 2005, 10:52 PM
I have been using computers for many years, but I must admit to an almost pathological fear of LANs, I've used modems, serial and parallel ports to transfer data to other computers using Laplink, Interlink and Lynx and even dabbled with transferring data to Commodores or Atari 8-bits using an X-- cable. I've used Teledisk and other similar programs to do a disk readable on other systems, and have unused Local Talk and other adaptors to perform compatible communication between disparate machines. I have various copies of Novell, Lantastic, PC Anywhere and many other programs to set up a LAN but somehow this esoteric art escapes me. Tho I DO RTFM.

I have a huge book called Windows NT server, a whole set of SCO, and somewhere here a book called LANs for Dummies, and a video included with WFW on LAN hookup with token ring cards in a "star" or "hub" set-up. My NEXT documents garble about NTSF. I even have an Ethernet Hub.

I usually freeze when the program calls for my NIC address and I don't proceed from there since the ethernet card gives very little indication of what my address should be, and since it's not on the INET, would it conflict with a proper INET address.

So I use sneakernet except at the moment I need a LAN to access a printer for certain reasons.

Anyone have a site to decipher this esoteric art ?

I never could understand how companies could become vast corporations like Novel just based on hooking computers together. Maybe I'm missing something, or its a psycholgical denial thing. A serial port supportive syndrome.

Or maybe an overdose of non-informative info.

Or a cabal of LINUX documentarianists tormenting me.

Aiieeee !

Lawrence

Terry Yager
May 6th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Lawrence,

There's really nothing to be afraid of these days. Networking is not the black art that it was a few years ago. (Trust me, if a technophobe like me can set up a LAN in the home, anybody can). Advances in hardware and software (especially net-aware OSs) have made it child's play. Come to think of it, d'ya know a child who can set up your LAN for ya?
I guess the real problem is networking vintage hardware using vintage software, especially if you're trying to get a bunch of dis-similar machines to talk to each other (Apples, Commies, CP/M boxes, etc). Those old machines just weren't intended to communicate with one another. They are broken by design (single-user). Sorry, I can't be of any help there, but don't be discouraged, it can be done to some degree or another.

--T

CP/M User
May 7th, 2005, 01:40 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> There's really nothing to be afraid of these days.

That's the problem these days, it's all too easy - which is why I'm all out in regards to new computers. Bill Gates has said we'll eventually catch up for the dumbo's, well not literally, though through his actions.

Anyway, Networks are borning too, so it doesn't help to add any interest! Old Computers are far more interesting & you get to poke around, learn command line & play around with some proper games, programming languages, etc.
Unfortuntately you don't get paid for using your Old Computer system - unless it's self employment, but you can't exactly sell software if there's no-one to sell it too. Perhaps the best thing would be to have a service which produced something everyone can use!

> Networking is not the black art that it was a few years ago. (Trust me,
> if a technophobe like me can set up a LAN in the home, anybody can).
> Advances in hardware and software (especially net-aware OSs) have
> made it child's play. Come to think of it, d'ya know a child who can set
> up your LAN for ya?

That's the other thing which bugs me about Kids, why employ some slightly older person to use a computer, when some Kid can come along & get paid half the price & do twice as much with a computer?

I think now that being stuck on a computer all day long, would be quite boring. Sure I used to think it'd be nice, but technology changes, users change, software changes & it's better to find something else anyway - since computers are used everywhere, any new job would involve using one at some stage. All of a sudden that Network Administrator sounds like a boring job to have! ;-)

CP/M User.

vbriel
May 7th, 2005, 02:39 AM
In someways CPM I agree with you. It is easy for a company to hire these "kids" to come in and set up your network to do the simple networking tasks on Windows machines for half the pay. The old saying does come to mind "you get what you pay for".

I work in the field and I'd love to see one of those "kids" walk in on a 30 server setup and work on it without reverting back to wearing diapers.

It's one thing to be able to set up a cute 3-5 PC network in your house with WiFi. It's another to set up and maintain 2-500 user systems.

I remember being one of those kids out there until the first time I crashed a 100+ user server. I grew up really fast after that.

It's actually nice to see a lot of networking becoming standardized. No more BNC, IPX thank god. Everything is autoconfiguring saving time and trouble to set up a box that way anyways, so why not autoconfig the network. This gives me more time to set up my serial connection to my apple II to transfer disk images :)

Vince

joe sixpack
May 7th, 2005, 12:05 PM
I have a huge book called Windows NT server, a whole set of SCO, and somewhere here a book called LANs for Dummies, and a video included with WFW on LAN hookup with token ring cards in a "star" or "hub" set-up. My NEXT documents garble about NTSF. I even have an Ethernet Hub.
Do you mean NTFS? instead of NTSF? NTFS OR (New Technology (NT) File System (FS))
Is used on windows NT, 2000 & XP
it's a pretty good file system much better then FAT12,16,32 however it's
a real pain to do anything with it under dos so it's best to use fat 16 for
anything you might need underdos & winnt - xp
however you run into problems with large disk's under dos.
it's best to keep dos on it's own computer.
NTFS is used for storing files on your hdd and has next to nothign to do
with networking.

im unsure what you are trying to do. there are all
kinds of different network hardware and protocols plus each OS is diff.
are you wanting to connect your atari , commodore , windows & linux pc's
all up to one network? well im sure it can be done but im also sure it would
be a pain.

windows for workgroups 3.11 -> xp is pretty simple dos can be networked
too with a little extra effort, linux is built for networking as well but with linux
if you have odd ball hardware it might be harder to find a working driver
as there is'nt as wide a support for devices on linux. It does not help that
manufactures wont release informatin about there cards so it takes longer
for someone too write one and even then it's not always 100% still it's not
as bad ad you would expect.

as far as networking hardware goes if i can't get ethernet working it dont
get networked i got rid of (small) collection of tokenring crap.

ethernet is simple, fast & flexable, not to mention affordable.
really hardware wise all you need to connect two computers is for each
to have there own cards & a single cable (crossover) if you need to
connect more then 2 computers you'll need a hub (you already have)
or a switch. Switch is just like a hub but better in every single way.
if you hook up to a hub make sure you use (straight through) cable (the most common).
here's a link that will illustrate what i mean (http://www.cabletron.com/support/techtips/tk0231-9.html)

the bigist problem is making sure your OS can handle the network
like i said windows, linux have no problem, dos can be done too.
atari & commodores im sure someone has done before but i have'nt a clue.

all the computers in the network will need to use the same protocol (language)
to talk to each other the most common is tcp/ip it's what you use on the
internet and it's very flexable. however older machines do not always have this newer protocol you
might have to settle on IPX. it's possible to have your windows & linux machine
run this as well and at the same time so they can talk to older machines
and still talk to the newer machines in tcp/ip


I usually freeze when the program calls for my NIC address and I don't proceed from there since the ethernet card gives very little indication of what my address should be, and since it's not on the INET, would it conflict with a proper INET address.

NIC address's if you are talking about hardware then that would be called your MAC address (Media Access Control)
the only thing you need to know is what it is.. write it down.
dont worry about conflicts because it rarly matters they are all unique.
if you are talking about your IP address then you can have this setup
by DHCP server but it's prob easier to just set them up your self in a small
lan. you can use several different blocks that are set a side for private use
private use is address you can use in your own lan that arent used on the
internet there for there will be no conflicts with routing and such.
the ranges are:
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255
i use the 10.x.x.x range however any will do. this really only matters
if your lan is at somepoint somehow connected to the internet
you can use what ever ip you want there is no law however it's good practice to use private ranges.

for a subnet i use a subnet of 255.255.255.0
subnet just tells your system how many computers it will try to contact
before routing it also does some other minor stuff too but you really dont need to
know unless you want to. with that subnet your machine will contact
255 hosts directly.. should be more then enough for any thing you might
throw at it.
here's a small page about ip's and subnet's (http://www.ralphb.net/IPSubnet/)

so for example the wired part of my lan i use 10.0.0.x with a subnet of 255.255.255.0
so i can access all computers on 10.0.0.x directly except 10.0.0.255 thats
a ip used for broadcasts (broadcast being all computers see this traffic even on a switch)
if i want to access the internet or anything beyond my subnet for that matter
it will need to be routed using a router/gateway.. router is just a middle man.
the router has a ip address on both networks 10.0.0.x and internet.
really the internet is nothing more then a very very very large collection
of networks linked together in fact just accessing this website my request
prob went though 15-30 routers not including my own



There's really nothing to be afraid of these days.
That's the problem these days, it's all too easy - which is why I'm all out in regards to new computers. Bill Gates has said we'll eventually catch up for the dumbo's, well not literally, though through his actions.
Hmm well i can understand where thats comming from i dont like fighting
with the computer but at the same time i dont like to be herassed by the machine
about stupid crap (Win XP). i like taking the short route but i also like to know
how to do it by hand if i need too.

That's the other thing which bugs me about Kids, why employ some slightly older person to use a computer, when some Kid can come along & get paid half the price & do twice as much with a computer?
Define kid's are you talking about high school students or kid's as in fresh out of ITT
or some other place? Or do you just mean kid's as in young? people have to start somewhere.
if the company is going to hire a "kid" as in little / no exp. as a full time or as the only administrator
then it is the companies fault when they have problems not the "kids"
The "kid" is prob just trying there best they ask for a job the company is
the one that gave them something over there heads.


I think now that being stuck on a computer all day long, would be quite boring. i agree somewhat you gotta break it up a little.
but i still would like having a job with lots of computer time, and oh god casual dress is a must.


Sure I used to think it'd be nice, but technology changes, users change, software changes & it's better to find something else anyway - since computers are used everywhere, any new job would involve using one at some stage. thchnology/software changes, users remain the same
oh ya gotta love them users always bugging you about dumb simple shit.
"i think i need a new computer my keyboard wont work" why dont you try pluging it in.

All of a sudden that Network Administrator sounds like a boring job to have! ;-) sounds like a stressfull existance if you ask me. all those users bugging you about dumb simple shit.
the boss breathing down your neck about crap that he wants done when he
snaps his fingiers. jump dog jump, sit, sit i say, fetch go fetch, Now grant me 3 wishes. lol


It's one thing to be able to set up a cute 3-5 PC network in your house with WiFi. It's another to set up and maintain 2-500 user systems.
lol i pitty the fool who uses wifi for network backbone

Terry Yager
May 7th, 2005, 02:16 PM
Now I feel old. I got to spend the afternoon digging thru the basement of my favorite computer store, and educating a "kid" (A+ & ghawd-knows-what-else certified tech) about the vintage computers found down there. He didn't have a clue. He was truly amazed at such wonders as 8" hard drives, etc. (He even had a couple of Toshiba T100s in a pile of "trash"...I rescued them).
Anyways, the good news is that all that stuff is going to be sold soon. All those people on this board who've been waiting for me to visit ComputerHell, this is finally happening. (I know someone was interested in Wang PCs, and someone else was waiting to hear about H/Z-89/90s). You all know who you are, get ahold of me, I'll see what I can do. Pictures available upon request (if I can figger out how to get 'em out of my camera & onto the 'pute).

--T

CP/M User
May 7th, 2005, 02:33 PM
"joe sixpack" wrote:

>> That's the problem these days, it's all too easy - which is why I'm all
>> out in regards to new computers. Bill Gates has said we'll eventually
>> catch up for the dumbo's, well not literally, though through his actions.

> Hmm well i can understand where thats comming from i dont like fighting
> with the computer but at the same time i dont like to be herassed by the
> machine about stupid crap (Win XP). i like taking the short route but i
> also like to know how to do it by hand if i need too.

Well it's a bit like what Jon Pertwee said when he was Doctor (in one of his stories - think it's Inferno) in Doctor Who. He didn't necessarily like Computers though & saw it as a tool, like all tools you use it to assist you.

>> That's the other thing which bugs me about Kids, why employ some
>> slightly older person to use a computer, when some Kid can come
>> along & get paid half the price & do twice as much with a computer?

> Define kid's are you talking about high school students or kid's as in
> fresh out of ITT or some other place? Or do you just mean kid's as in
> young? people have to start somewhere.

True, people do have to start somewhere, but their essentally getting them before they develop their reading skills, how early do you want a kid to start learning a computer? They're basically getting them when they start Kindergarden. Okay, I started out young, but I was about 7 when I started using a computer & I only did the really simple stuff (play games). I was 11 when I started using the one at School (which was an Apple IIe), moved onto a Mac when I was 12. When I was in my last year Primary school they were giving the Preps a go on a Mac - that was in 1990!!

Kids IMO as young as 4 shouldn't be using a computer, they should be doing all the things which make them a kid, which doesn't involve playing on a computer.

> if the company is going to hire a "kid" as in little / no exp. as a full time
> or as the only administrator then it is the companies fault when they
> have problems not the "kids"

This is why we have Teenagers, schools should be more focused on learning this stuff at that stage. But that doesn't mean Primary Schools should be fazed out from doing this, it's essentual to get the basics of computers in first to the young ones. This could include Graphics, a little Word Processing, Internet & basic Maths (in spreadsheets). Personally, I think it's a bit early starting them at 4 or 5, 7 or 8 is a better age - but it also depends on the kid, if I had some prick of an 8 year old, I wouldn't put them on a computer (to save it from damage).

Networking, Hardware are more or less things to do latter on. Also programming might be as well! ;-)

> The "kid" is prob just trying there best they ask for a job the company is
> the one that gave them something over there heads.

Personally, I think it's great some kid want's to start at some computer company - less competition in other fields!
Computerning doesn't just extend to some IT company! ;-)

>> I think now that being stuck on a computer all day long, would be quite
>> boring.

> i agree somewhat you gotta break it up a little.
> but i still would like having a job with lots of computer time, and oh god
> casual dress is a must.

Heh! Sounds more like Glare time at the computer!

>> Sure I used to think it'd be nice, but technology changes, users
>> change, software changes & it's better to find something else anyway -
>> since computers are used everywhere, any new job would involve
>> using one at some stage.

> thchnology/software changes, users remain the same
> oh ya gotta love them users always bugging you about dumb simple
> $h!t.

Yeah, some of my old work mates have actually gained knowledge from when I was working with them & showing them stuff on the computer. Quite remarkable they've moved onto being a more a computer user. I taken a step back & 'am probably better at doing the stuff I do all the time on a computer - I can still use one, but being learning in different fields - which use computers!

> "i think i need a new computer my keyboard wont work" why dont you
> try pluging it in.

This happened to me the other day, trouble was the keyboard was plugged in! ;-)

>> All of a sudden that Network Administrator sounds like a boring job to
>> have! ;-)

> sounds like a stressfull existance if you ask me. all those users bugging
> you about dumb simple $h!t.

> the boss breathing down your neck about crap that he wants done when
> he snaps his fingiers. jump dog jump, sit, sit i say, fetch go fetch, Now
> grant me 3 wishes. lol

The worse bosses always breath down your neck, why do they need to watch what I do? Are they trying to learn something? Or do they just want to be a nuisance?
I saw an interesting story the other night on a show based on Science called Catalyst which had a story about Corporate Psychopaths, seemed quite interesting. You can find out all about the story here:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst

In that story it went through a series of questions (you ask yourself) to try & find out if your boss is a Psychopath, the signs are quite there.

CP/M User.

joe sixpack
May 7th, 2005, 04:13 PM
"joe sixpack" wrote:
>> That's the other thing which bugs me about Kids, why employ some
>> slightly older person to use a computer, when some Kid can come
>> along & get paid half the price & do twice as much with a computer?

> Define kid's are you talking about high school students or kid's as in
> fresh out of ITT or some other place? Or do you just mean kid's as in
> young? people have to start somewhere.

True, people do have to start somewhere, but their essentally getting them before they develop their reading skills, how early do you want a kid to start learning a computer? They're basically getting them when they start Kindergarden. Okay, I started out young, but I was about 7 when I started using a computer & I only did the really simple stuff (play games). I was 11 when I started using the one at School (which was an Apple IIe), moved onto a Mac when I was 12. When I was in my last year Primary school they were giving the Preps a go on a Mac - that was in 1990!!

Kids IMO as young as 4 shouldn't be using a computer, they should be doing all the things which make them a kid, which doesn't involve playing on a computer.
oh so you mean kids in a literal sense. well kids that young arent even employable.

dont have kids and don't plan too anytime soon, but i will teach my kid
as much as possible as soon as possible. so they are not picking up computers at 15 or 16.
im not going to rely on the schools to provide that part of there education
reading a book is great but you need hands on hardware to play with.

the schools are not really doing a very good job beyond typing skills.
schools i went to had very few computers and even less that where
anywhere near current. by the time they had current systems they where
restrictive, every school & district is different however i sometimes look
at the schools in the more wealthy areas and see such well equipped computer labs
while other schools go with next to nothing. it's a real problem but thats another topic altogether.



> if the company is going to hire a "kid" as in little / no exp. as a full time
> or as the only administrator then it is the companies fault when they
> have problems not the "kids"

This is why we have Teenagers, schools should be more focused on learning this stuff at that stage. But that doesn't mean Primary Schools should be fazed out from doing this, it's essentual to get the basics of computers in first to the young ones. This could include Graphics, a little Word Processing, Internet & basic Maths (in spreadsheets). Personally, I think it's a bit early starting them at 4 or 5, 7 or 8 is a better age - but it also depends on the kid, if I had some prick of an 8 year old, I wouldn't put them on a computer (to save it from damage).

Networking, Hardware are more or less things to do latter on. Also programming might be as well! ;-)
i agree on the school's part however i say start them as young as possible
where they will learn quicker & retain information better.



>> I think now that being stuck on a computer all day long, would be quite
>> boring.

> i agree somewhat you gotta break it up a little.
> but i still would like having a job with lots of computer time, and oh god
> casual dress is a must.

Heh! Sounds more like Glare time at the computer!
lol, i guess so. i think hardware is more interesting. really a mix of the two would provide a good balance
and throw in some non technical work helps keep interest. if i dont have to deal with the customer all the better!



> "i think i need a new computer my keyboard wont work" why dont you
> try pluging it in.

This happened to me the other day, trouble was the keyboard was plugged in! ;-)
lol, that really happend i had to go all the way overthere to look at there
computer they did'nt tell me there keyboard was broken they just said
that IE would'nt let them type. it turns out thats why. they had WinME & had
there passwords stored so the only time they needed to use there keybaord
was for typing in URL's lol i did'nt ask them if it was pluged in because
i thought it was common knowledge that the keyboard had to be connected
and they said it was IE that would'nt let them type.
i've learned you have to be very specific about asking questions about a problem.

but really i get people all the time asking me about stuff and most times
it's just unpluged. and dont you just love these people that think oh windows
dont load there computers broke and need a new one? people ask me
this all the time and even when i tell them it's a software (windows) problem
they still continue to ask the same question over and over again.
thats really why i hate dealing with users is because they dont listen even
when im as clear cut and specific as possible about a question they continue to ask it.

btw what ended up being the problem?



>> All of a sudden that Network Administrator sounds like a boring job to
>> have! ;-)

> sounds like a stressfull existance if you ask me. all those users bugging
> you about dumb simple $h!t.

> the boss breathing down your neck about crap that he wants done when
> he snaps his fingiers. jump dog jump, sit, sit i say, fetch go fetch, Now
> grant me 3 wishes. lol

The worse bosses always breath down your neck, why do they need to watch what I do? Are they trying to learn something? Or do they just want to be a nuisance?
I saw an interesting story the other night on a show based on Science called Catalyst which had a story about Corporate Psychopaths, seemed quite interesting. You can find out all about the story here:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst

In that story it went through a series of questions (you ask yourself) to try & find out if your boss is a Psychopath, the signs are quite there.

CP/M User.

OMG i have never heard of this i've known a few people that show some
of those signs but i dont think i know anyone who is the total package.
it's like a self centered asshole + heartless bastard + back stabing bitch all rolled up in one lol

EDIT: Added all below

Now I feel old. I got to spend the afternoon digging thru the basement of my favorite computer store, oh how cool and interesting... would some snap shots be possible?

and educating a "kid" (A+ & ghawd-knows-what-else certified tech) about the vintage computers found down there. He didn't have a clue. He was truly amazed at such wonders as 8" hard drives, etc. you have got to be kidding me! thats sad man

(He even had a couple of Toshiba T100s in a pile of "trash"...I rescued them). Thank god you was where to save them, what is wrong with some people?

Terry Yager
May 7th, 2005, 04:29 PM
I haven't had a boss for many years, but I took the test based on the last boss I had, and he scored 50%. I then took it again based on myself as boss (a position I have been in a few times). I scored 4 out of 6, so I'm not a complete psychopath, but I have obvious issues.

--T

CP/M User
May 8th, 2005, 02:41 AM
"joe sixpack" wrote:

> oh so you mean kids in a literal sense. well kids that young arent even
> employable.

No they aren't employable, but this is preparning them for the outside world, unfortunately the outside world can only pick a minority - that's assuming that schools are sending kids (of all ages) to a path.
Hence, this is why once you finish school you still need to either find some dead-end job which would drive anyone up the wall - except for the incredibly don't care what I do people, just need the pay or go into further study. I think it shows nowadays that people are more picky as to what they want to do because if you enjoy doing something, the better you are at it.

> dont have kids and don't plan too anytime soon, but i will teach my kid
> as much as possible as soon as possible. so they are not picking up
> computers at 15 or 16.
> im not going to rely on the schools to provide that part of there
> education reading a book is great but you need hands on hardware to
> play with.

> the schools are not really doing a very good job beyond typing skills.
> schools i went to had very few computers and even less that where
> anywhere near current. by the time they had current systems they
> where restrictive, every school & district is different however i
> sometimes look at the schools in the more wealthy areas and see such
> well equipped computer labs
> while other schools go with next to nothing. it's a real problem but thats
> another topic altogether.

Interesting you said that about your schools. I've been doing some work at one of the poorer schools around the area. But they still seem to have a reasonable amount of computers in their classrooms!

> i agree on the school's part however i say start them as young as
> possible where they will learn quicker & retain information better.

Yes perhaps, but not too young I'd say! ;-)

> but really i get people all the time asking me about stuff and most times
> it's just unpluged. and dont you just love these people that think oh
> windows dont load there computers broke and need a new one? people
> ask me this all the time and even when i tell them it's a software
> (windows) problem

Er? Yeahhh! I'd just tell them the Windows ROM is broke, it'll cost more to replace it, then to buy a whole new, faster computer! ;-)
< Ching!, Ching! >

> they still continue to ask the same question over and over again.
> thats really why i hate dealing with users is because they dont listen
> even when im as clear cut and specific as possible about a question they
> continue to ask it.

Better to play their game IMO, yes the computer doesn't boot, it must be broke, even though it could be as simple as a non-bootable floppy in the disk drive! We used to have people put books into their floppy disk drives, based on little cartoonish pictures which suggested your computer can be your book (whatever that means).

> btw what ended up being the problem?

Computer decided it was time to do something else & while I had the application selected, it was merely a timing issue. This computer is due to be replaced! :-(

> The worse bosses always breath down your neck, why do they need to
> watch what I do? Are they trying to learn something? Or do they just
> want to be a nuisance?

> I saw an interesting story the other night on a show based on Science
> called Catalyst which had a story about Corporate Psychopaths, seemed
> quite interesting. You can find out all about the story here:

> http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst

> In that story it went through a series of questions (you ask yourself) to
> try & find out if your boss is a Psychopath, the signs are quite there.

> OMG i have never heard of this i've known a few people that show some
> of those signs but i dont think i know anyone who is the total package.
> it's like a self centered @$$ho!e + heartless !3@$t@rd + back stabing
> !3!tch all rolled up in one lol

They also have video report on file I noticed. I'll get it from school (they have broadband or something) & burn it on CD!

CP/M User.

Terry Yager
May 8th, 2005, 06:06 AM
EDIT: Added all below
Terry Yager wrote:
Now I feel old. I got to spend the afternoon digging thru the basement of my favorite computer store,
oh how cool and interesting... would some snap shots be possible?

I took a bunch of pix yesterday, but my crappy camera won't give 'em up. I figgered that the only thing to do is go back with a better camera and try again. After I get some snaps, I'll try and post 'em on my ftp page.

--T

joe sixpack
May 8th, 2005, 04:12 PM
"joe sixpack" wrote:

> oh so you mean kids in a literal sense. well kids that young arent even
> employable.

I think it shows nowadays that people are more picky as to what they want to do because if you enjoy doing something, the better you are at it.
that just makes sense i agree.


> dont have kids and don't plan too anytime soon, but i will teach my kid
> as much as possible as soon as possible. so they are not picking up
> computers at 15 or 16.
> im not going to rely on the schools to provide that part of there
> education reading a book is great but you need hands on hardware to
> play with.

> the schools are not really doing a very good job beyond typing skills.
> schools i went to had very few computers and even less that where
> anywhere near current. by the time they had current systems they
> where restrictive, every school & district is different however i
> sometimes look at the schools in the more wealthy areas and see such
> well equipped computer labs
> while other schools go with next to nothing. it's a real problem but thats
> another topic altogether.

Interesting you said that about your schools. I've been doing some work at one of the poorer schools around the area. But they still seem to have a reasonable amount of computers in their classrooms!
well i guess that might not be true any more i have not been in a school for 5 years.
to be fair they had just gotten a bunch of dell computers.

We use to go to other high schools and pick up there old systems
i would fix them up best i could and they would go to schools that had
even less then we did. oh i remember a real beauty a compaq portable III
oh i feel in love with that machine, but they would not let me keep it.
however on the flip side i heard it was still in perfect running order and
a teacher was using it for the kids to type things up on.

anyway it's the balance im talking about rich schools have a lot and poorer areas have much less. thats not right!
private schools i understand but public schools should all get equal funding.

things might have changed in the last five year's but i doubt much has.
i could really ramble on but it's a whole different topic.

EDIT: i forgot to mention that our public schools in my area was graded D-
in there yearly evaluation.. this is not on computers this is there over all grade.
the schools are in debt most of the time. prob them over spending
or the local government not giving them enough, maybe a little of both i guess.


> but really i get people all the time asking me about stuff and most times
> it's just unpluged. and dont you just love these people that think oh
> windows dont load there computers broke and need a new one? people
> ask me this all the time and even when i tell them it's a software
> (windows) problem

Er? Yeahhh! I'd just tell them the Windows ROM is broke, it'll cost more to replace it, then to buy a whole new, faster computer! ;-)
< Ching!, Ching! >
i offten get other peoples old systems however i dont want them to spend
more money then they need too. besides if i got spouting off about windows rom
and they repeat that we're both going to look like fools. anyhow saying windows & rom in the same sentence would just confuse them more.
besides a lot of people ask my advice but very few take it. it almost seems like
they go and do the exact things i tell them not too. forbidden fruit i guess.
anway even when i tell them they do not need a new computer there's at least a 50%
chance they will go right out and buy a computer with out even asking my advice
on the model most times getting taken in by marketing and 2bit sales men.
I wonder how many are ex used car salesmen? it's fun to go into stores and F0<k with the ones that act like they're experts.


> they still continue to ask the same question over and over again.
> thats really why i hate dealing with users is because they dont listen
> even when im as clear cut and specific as possible about a question they
> continue to ask it.

Better to play their game IMO, yes the computer doesn't boot, it must be broke, even though it could be as simple as a non-bootable floppy in the disk drive! We used to have people put books into their floppy disk drives, based on little cartoonish pictures which suggested your computer can be your book (whatever that means).

lol my friend tried sticking a cd in a 5.25 floppy drive lol
oh btw it did'nt work

Rick Ethridge
May 8th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Most of my network equipment is plug-n-play. Went to school for this stuff but much of it was superfluous. A+ tech with no knowledge of legacy equipment? Waiting to test for it and a lot still relies on the "basics". I never could've gotten as far as I have without the experience! I tell my son that he needs to know the "old stuff" too. Ever tried to fix a hard drive with a boot block virus? DOS is your friend! I still use floppies! RLE

Terry Yager
May 8th, 2005, 08:57 PM
When my kids were small, I used to take a couple of spare machines and set them up in thier classrooms. The teachers were always glad to have 'em, even though they knew nothing about them. For the most part, some of the kids knew what to do with them, and sometimes the teachers would learn from the students. Actually, I recieved my first computer lesson from a 6-year-old. My daughter's first grade teacher had a small network set up in the classroom (a TRS-80 Model 4 and 8x Model I "work stations" jacked-in to a Net 4 controller). The teacher's nephew was a RadioShack store manager and he set her up with the net, which had been removed from service somewhere, and the old obsolete stuff was given to him. (I ended up with that TRS-80 network the following year after the nephew came thru with a newer Tandy 1000 network for the classroom). I used to volunteer in the classrooms, and one day, the teacher asked me to help the children on the computers. DUH! I didn't even know how to turn the infernal contraption on. A little girl had to show me how to bring the network on line and load the programs from the floppy disk of the Mod4. After that year, I always made sure that my kid's classrooms always had at least a couple of XTs, but if not for people like myself and that teacher's nephew, there would not have been any computers in that school.
By contrast, last year when my niece was living with us, her SpecialEd teacher had only one computer for the whole class, and only one program on it -- ReaderRabbit. I offered to bring in a few '486 laptops, loaded with edu-ware, but the teacher said that it wasn't allowed for insurance reasons, in case something bad happened to them. I was willing to absolve the school of any liability, in writing, (the computers ain't worth much anyways) but still they refused. I didn't understand that policy, and still don't.

--T

Terry Yager
May 8th, 2005, 09:01 PM
Most of my network equipment is plug-n-play. Went to school for this stuff but much of it was superfluous. A+ tech with no knowledge of legacy equipment? Waiting to test for it and a lot still relies on the "basics". I never could've gotten as far as I have without the experience! I tell my son that he needs to know the "old stuff" too. Ever tried to fix a hard drive with a boot block virus? DOS is your friend! I still use floppies! RLE

Well, at least he recognized a TRS-80 (Model III) when he saw one, but kept calling them TSR-80s, much to my annoyance. I even tried to call his attention to it without being too obvious. I started cleaning the label of a Model 4 that was smudged. I asked for his help in reading the label, "Does that say Model 4, or 4D?", looking closely at it in the bad light. Even with his nose 6" away from it, he still insisted on calling it a TSR! I give up.

--T

CP/M User
May 9th, 2005, 01:37 AM
"joe sixpack" wrote:

>> Er? Yeahhh! I'd just tell them the Windows ROM is broke, it'll cost more
>> to replace it, then to buy a whole new, faster computer! ;-)
> < Ching!, Ching! >

> i offten get other peoples old systems however i dont want them to
> spend more money then they need too. besides if i got spouting off
> about windows rom and they repeat that we're both going to look like
> fools.

It's easy to say Windows ROMs do exist though, just search the web! It would only take one nut (with the guts to do something) who's fed up with having an OS on a Hard Disk to change that!

> anyhow saying windows & rom in the same sentence would just
> confuse them more.

Persisely!

> besides a lot of people ask my advice but very few take it. it almost
> seems like they go and do the exact things i tell them not too. forbidden
> fruit i guess.

So next time, do the opposite, tell them the Windows ROM is stuffed & while it'll cost just as much to fix the old system, there's a brand new one there for just about the same price! ;-)

> anway even when i tell them they do not need a new computer there's
> at least a 50% chance they will go right out and buy a computer with out
> even asking my advice on the model most times getting taken in by
> marketing and 2bit sales men.

Marketing & 2 bit sales men are a pain & when it's time to service the thing, they don't even want to know you - something you could tell your customers when they want to think about where to get their system.

> I wonder how many are ex used car salesmen? it's fun to go into stores
> and F0<k with the ones that act like they're experts.

I wonder too, I reckon they just want to sell a system so they can get their pay! A couple of years back, we had a con-computer artist, who was selling what they claimed were old reconditioned computers (486s). In fact it was a hoax & many people who thought they were getting a bargin, were ripped off & got a system in very poor condition - no reconditioning what so ever. You should have saw the advertisement - it was all a con artist's deal to have it sound too good to be true & it was. The icing on the cake was this free holiday you got when you brought one of their systems! ;-)

CP/M User.

carlsson
May 9th, 2005, 03:42 AM
Even with his nose 6" away from it, he still insisted on calling it a TSR!
Ah, one of those rare Terminate and Stay Resident-80 computers. Once you have installed in your home, you never get rid of it! At least not until you turn 80 years old, which is what the number means.

Terry Yager
May 9th, 2005, 05:52 AM
Even with his nose 6" away from it, he still insisted on calling it a TSR!
Ah, one of those rare Terminate and Stay Resident-80 computers. Once you have installed in your home, you never get rid of it! At least not until you turn 80 years old, which is what the number means.

Yeah, they terminated about 20 years ago, and have resided in the basement ever since.

--T