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Raven
September 27th, 2009, 07:37 AM
I have a Mitsumi CD-ROM drive that I got from a friend. He has like 3 more of them, and gave me one because they are quite unique. They have a panel in the front that you press in, and when you release, it pops out. You then pull the thing that pops out, and then a lid can be opened to insert the CD into. You then close the lid, and push the drawer back in.

Very neat. My friend informs me, though, that he can't get them working. I haven't tried yet, but basically normal IDE controllers don't cut it. He had 16-bit I/O cards (16-bit ISA physical format) that are supposed to work with 'em, but again, he's had no luck. I was wondering if you guys have seen these.. Do they hook up to sound cards? Should these ISA cards work for 'em? Should normal IDE controllers work?

It's a 1993 Mitsumi CRMC-LU005S.

Thanks.

BTW - I know I've been gone for quite a while, I've been busy, but hey guys, I'm back. :D

Chuckster_in_Jax
September 27th, 2009, 08:13 AM
I have a Mitsumi CD-ROM drive that I got from a friend. He has like 3 more of them, and gave me one because they are quite unique. They have a panel in the front that you press in, and when you release, it pops out. You then pull the thing that pops out, and then a lid can be opened to insert the CD into. You then close the lid, and push the drawer back in.

Very neat. My friend informs me, though, that he can't get them working. I haven't tried yet, but basically normal IDE controllers don't cut it. He had 16-bit I/O cards (16-bit ISA physical format) that are supposed to work with 'em, but again, he's had no luck. I was wondering if you guys have seen these.. Do they hook up to sound cards? Should these ISA cards work for 'em? Should normal IDE controllers work?

It's a 1993 Mitsumi CRMC-LU005S.

Thanks.



OK, it seems that this is one of the very early CD-ROM drives. That thing that pops out with a lid is referred to as a caddy. This drive won't work just hooking it up to an standard IDE controller. It has to connect to a proprietary interface. Check out this link section 3.3:

http://tldp.org/HOWTO/CDROM-HOWTO/x97.html

Chuckster_in_Jax
September 27th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Did some more looking and found that this is a strange drive. One place had a user that said when you press on the front faceplate the entire drive assembly came out. Also, I found a reference that said the drive specs were in a file called mitsumi.txt. However I couldn't find the file it was talking about. Since it isn't standard IDE, you may want to read the warning from this user.

"I have a Matsushita-Kotobuki (Panasonic, correct?) CR-563-B CD-ROM drive, with the infamous CRE-BTB sticker on it, and the faceplate that says Creative SoundBlaster. It has a connector identical to ATA."


It has a 40 pin header that looks the same as for an IDE drive but the wiring of it is not compatible with IDE wiring. In fact, if you connect it to an IDE header, you can damage both the drive's and the ide controller's circuits in a short time. I once absent mindedly connected this or another similar "Panasonic" drive to an IDE data cable that also had a IDE hard drive attached - the IDE drive would not even spin up, and of course the CD drive was not recognized.

These drives were made to be used with headers/controllers for Matsushita-Kotobuki ("Panasonic") drives - many older ISA sound cards had headers for them you could connect them to - or much less often, there were dedicated drive controller cards, only available as ISA, you could use with them.
These drives were often bundled with a sound card, and somtimes had added labelling because of that, hence the Soundblaster labelling in your case.

If you don't have ISA slots on the mboard you want to use this on, there's probably no way you can use this drive.

Chuck(G)
September 27th, 2009, 08:54 AM
I may have one of the old ISA cards for this thing. There were a couple of non-IDE "IDE" standards in use. I think Sony had yet a different one.

My first CD-ROM drive was a SCSI Plextor that operated with caddies. Good and bad--the caddies cost money, but you could leave the CD-ROMs in them for storage.

Chuckster_in_Jax
September 27th, 2009, 08:57 AM
My first CD-ROM drive was a SCSI Plextor that operated with caddies. Good and bad--the caddies cost money, but you could leave the CD-ROMs in them for storage.

My first CD-ROM was a Plextor with caddies too. I paid premium $$ for it and it died about a week after the warranty ran out.

channelmaniac
September 27th, 2009, 09:03 AM
The older sound cards had connectors for CD-ROM drives. These plug into one of those non-IDE connections on one of those cards.

kishy
September 27th, 2009, 10:17 AM
"I have a Matsushita-Kotobuki (Panasonic, correct?) CR-563-B CD-ROM drive, with the infamous CRE-BTB sticker on it, and the faceplate that says Creative SoundBlaster. It has a connector identical to ATA."


That's my quote from computing.net :) It refers to a proprietary Panasonic drive which I'm still in the process of getting the sound card for (many more sound cards supporting these exist than dedicated controllers).

I also have one of these push-in then pop-out types the OP mentioned. It needs a Mitsumi controller card, which I believe I have...I'll document it with some decent photos for you shortly.

Edit:

Just as an aside, this is not a "CD Caddy" drive. Very different - I suspect this is one of the earliest non-caddy drives.

I am positive I have the software for this (it's basically a driver for the card combined with a version of MSCDEX) buried on my 320GB external. I will look for you at some point.

This card IS in TH99, I believe the brand is marked as unknown though. Look carefully, I found it before. This doesn't help you much if you don't have the card, but it helps others identify it and maybe supply you with one. I'm not 100% sure this card goes with this drive, but they're both proprietary, and I got them out of the same box...

Edit: great success; the card I have is in fact correct as confirmed here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mitsumi_LU005S_with_accessories.jpg
Watch for the card I show you in the following attachments, this is what you need (or a sound card with a Mitsumi interface)

Photos - Part 1

The Card

kishy
September 27th, 2009, 10:34 AM
Photos - part 2 (too many to attach to one reply only, sorry for the double post)

The Drive

kishy
September 27th, 2009, 01:42 PM
The Software

Now, I realize this gets you no closer to finding the card you need...but this info will be useful later on, so I'll spit it out while I still have it handy.

Alrighty...did some digging. Found on my external the file I was looking for.

lu230.exe - a self extracting file, which extracts the following files:


MSCDEX.EXE - 25KB - Modified 10/03/1993 6:00AM
MTMCDE.SYS - 19KB - Modified 03/09/1993 2:30AM
MTMCDS.SYS - 11KB - Modified 03/09/1993 2:30AM
PLAYCD.EXE - 18KB - Modified 16/01/1992 1:30AM
SETUP.EXE - 43KB - Modified 07/09/1993 12:41AM


I also took a trip to DriverGuide and found a couple other matches, including the same files, but with earlier 'modified' dates. Looking back on it, lu005sver21.zip (contents of which the uploader claims came with the drive new) is probably a better match than lu230; that was probably a different but related model.

Details about the attachments to this thread:
-mitlu002.zip: Some sort of driver to get the LU005S working in OS/2 2.1
-lu005sver21.zip: The "earlier" file set, lacking documents, seemingly a disk copy
-readme.txt: notes from an owner and user of the drive - useful!

I/O port address setting:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8002/mitsumi1.png

Card layout:
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6848/mitsumi2.png

IRQ, DMA settings:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9105/mitsumi3.png

I also read this somewhere:


Under DOS 6.x, you 'll need to replace the MSCDEX.EXE by the more recent version from DOS itself. Read the readme files first.


I'd say do any testing once you get a card in DOS 5.

Now, to get you one of those controller cards...and to finally figure out if my own set works :)

eBay Listings for Possible Cards:
This one, very different card but it may still be the same interface:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mitsumi-16-Bit-ISA-CDROM-Controller-Model-MTM2183M-K3_W0QQitemZ350146752724QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item51865f70d4&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

This one is the same as mine:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mitsumi-74-1645A-16-Bit-ISA-CDROM-I-F-Controller-B2_W0QQitemZ390004035040QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item5ace0d4de0&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

MikeS
September 27th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Yeah, I don't think it's a caddy-type drive as suggested.

As Chuck says, there were three CD-ROM standards before ATAPI: Mitsumi, Sony and Panasonic, and many early sound cards had all three interfaces on them; there were also dedicated interface cards with very minimal circuitry, often supplied with the drive (in the days when 1x drives cost >$100)

I probably have some cards somewhere if ya don't find one.

mike

kishy
September 27th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Yeah, I don't think it's a caddy-type drive as suggested.

As Chuck says, there were three CD-ROM standards before ATAPI: Mitsumi, Sony and Panasonic, and many early sound cards had all three interfaces on them; there were also dedicated interface cards with very minimal circuitry, often supplied with the drive (in the days when 1x drives cost >$100)

I probably have some cards somewhere if ya don't find one.

mike

Well, it's definitely not a caddy drive; I have one and took photos of it... Caddy drives involve a removable cartridge you put the disk in, then insert in the drive. This works the same way as a normal modern drive, except you manually operate it.

Finding a card likely won't be an issue for the OP, especially with my supplied ebay links (not my auctions, for the record), but I bet you could supply one cheaper if you have one.

It will probably be more headache-free to get the dedicated card instead of one built into a sound card which may have an even more proprietary access scheme.

paul
September 27th, 2009, 11:12 PM
I bought one of these pull-out Mitsumi drives new, my first CD-ROM drive. It had a slightly different faceplate and the card had jumpers not switches, but I do remember it was a proprietary interface. Edit - I also remember it was supported in the Linux kernel in the rev 0.98 or 0.99 days.

I think this was a much lower-priced drive than the caddy units from Toshiba, etc. I still have a couple of those older caddy drives around as they have the block size setting needed for compatibility with my Sun and Digital machines.

Anonymous Coward
September 28th, 2009, 08:00 AM
I love caddy loading drives. I have three Sony CDU-541 1X SCSI CD-ROM drives. They're built to last (very heavy) and have no problem reading CD-R media (so long as they aren't multi session). Sometimes I get the feeling that a good SCSI 1X drive is about the same speed as a proprietary 2X drive. The old NEC drives and Plextors are among my favourites too. The first generation drives were very unique.

I remember those weird pull out Mitsumi drives, and was always fascinated by the design. Didn't creative labs offer that drive in one of their early CD-ROM kits?

TandyMan100
September 28th, 2009, 08:23 AM
You look like you need a Soundblaster 16! I've got one, and it has three IDE-like things on it for a "sony drive", "panasonic drive", and "mitsumi drive".

kishy
September 28th, 2009, 09:52 AM
While an SB 16 is a good solution (and certainly info on how to get it working is more plentiful than proprietary cards), if the OP can find a proprietary original card it would be more 'authentic'.

Though, it's possible the SB 16s drivers may allow use in newer operating systems, whereas the DOS-level drivers I've provided above would only be good in DOS, 3x, and maybe if you were lucky 9x.



Edit:
I Tested My Card and Drive
The install went quite smooth. Here's a crude write up of the process when using the same ISA card I used:

0. Set up card with 100% defaults as indicated in the images I showed earlier (port 300h, DMA 7, IRQ 5). Use normal 40-wire 40-pin IDE cable with notches to tell proper orientation on drive (pin 1 appears to face away from power plug). Get the files from lu005sver21.zip on a floppy disk.
1. Install MS-DOS 5 to a hard drive (I tested with 5, should work with others)
2. Boot to DOS. Run from a floppy the setup program (setup.exe)
3. It's fairly self explanatory from here, but for the sake of writing it out for people in the future who need to reference this:
3a. Answer Y to the first question (use MTMCDE, the driver for DMA transfers)
3b. Press Enter on next question - default, C:\DEV
3c. Press Enter on next question - default, C:\BIN
3d. Continue to make files automatically
(following assumes default settings on card DIP switches)
3e. Answer 1 (for 300h)
3f. Answer 0 (for MSCDEX default behaviour)
3g. Recommend using default of 20
3h. Specify 7 (DMA)
3i. Specify 5 (IRQ)
3j. For testing purposes, I did not use extended memory (opens up the door to further complications)
3k. From this point forward, do allow it to make all necessary changes to all necessary files to add drivers on startup.
4. Reboot when prompted.

On my reboot after doing that, it installed the driver and found the drive ("Drive D: = Driver MSCD001 unit 0")
When I put a disk in, the LED blinks while it "inspects" the disk.
However, doing a dir on the D: drive results in a CDR101: Not ready reading drive D
I believe my drive is faulty or at least in need of cleaning or maybe I need older disks...

Sorry if I appear to have hijacked this thread; that isn't my intention. This just seems like a great place to archive this information for the future when people are googling around for info on the drive and/or card.

Anonymous Coward
September 28th, 2009, 09:53 PM
What kind of disc are you using to test it with? Some 1x and 2x CD-ROM drives can't read CD-R media.

kishy
September 29th, 2009, 04:59 AM
A mid-90s MSN internet service setup disk...the oldest CD-ROM I think I have.

Raven
October 5th, 2009, 09:03 AM
EXCELLENT! I have this card. All I was missing is the software, and perhaps I can get my friend to give me a second drive/card combo in exchange for a copy. ;D

Sorry I didn't get back to you guys sooner, but I'm 100% sure this is a non-caddy drive. It has a wheel for the hole in a CD and a plate that presses down against an inserted disk to keep it stable.

I'll report back when I get a chance to test this out again.

Thanks tons!

Edit:

I assume normal IDE cables should work with this though? If not one of the two-drive ones (which I assume I'd use the "slave" connector on), then one of the single drive ones? If not what am I looking for/hunting down?

kishy
October 17th, 2009, 10:33 AM
Regular IDE cable (single drive in my case) is what I used to test mine (drive appears faulty though). I believe if it is a particularly old 2-drive cable it doesn't matter which connector, but newer ones you'll have to experiment.

I just picked up a second interface card cheap today; if you want it it's $10 plus shipping, but it sounds like you've got it sorted out.

vetz
February 6th, 2013, 01:30 PM
Just installed my own drive in my 486.

The driver and information in this thread is very good. Though I want to add the following:

1. If you can't get the DMA/IRQ settings to work, the drive might work fine without it (using the other .SYS file). It did for me.
2. I used the connector on my CT2760 Soundblaster AWE32. Wasn't any problem to detect the drive.
3. Windows does not automatically find and install the drive. You need to go to Add Hardware, then select "from the list". Click on "Other devices". Find Mitsumi and select CD-ROM Old Single Drive. Then edit the DMA/IRQ setting so it matches with the config.sys settings and the jumpers on the hardware.

orion24
February 7th, 2013, 09:07 PM
I have a Mitsumi CD-ROM drive that I got from a friend. He has like 3 more of them, and gave me one because they are quite unique. They have a panel in the front that you press in, and when you release, it pops out. You then pull the thing that pops out, and then a lid can be opened to insert the CD into. You then close the lid, and push the drawer back in.

Very neat. My friend informs me, though, that he can't get them working. I haven't tried yet, but basically normal IDE controllers don't cut it. He had 16-bit I/O cards (16-bit ISA physical format) that are supposed to work with 'em, but again, he's had no luck. I was wondering if you guys have seen these.. Do they hook up to sound cards? Should these ISA cards work for 'em? Should normal IDE controllers work?

It's a 1993 Mitsumi CRMC-LU005S.

Thanks.

BTW - I know I've been gone for quite a while, I've been busy, but hey guys, I'm back. :D

I've got one of these as well. Not sure if it is the same model, but it is just like you describe. It is not ATAPI. Though it has a 40-pin IDE-like interface. It has its own ISA interface card to make it work.

Megatron-uk
February 8th, 2013, 12:06 PM
I remember when that drive came out - one of the very first available, if I recall. I believe the way it operates (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you pull the whole drive forward (as if you're pulling it out of your PC case!) in order to place/remove the CD.

I have a very early Mitsumi drive too, but it's the FX-001D, a double speed, more traditional motorized tray loading drive with a 16bit ISA (non-IDE) controller card.

njroadfan
February 8th, 2013, 12:19 PM
My first PC, a 486, had this Mitsumi drive. Boy was it SLOW. It was 1X, but the seek speed was pitiful. It came as part of a kit that included an ATI Stereo F/X sound card which had a Mitsumi interface on it and some software from The Software Toolworks (The Animals!, Grolier's 1993, and some enhanced edutainment titles).

These drives were XT compatible in theory. I have a Mitsumi/Sony/MKE interface card from Sun-Moon-Star that was 8-bit ISA.

Agent Orange
February 8th, 2013, 12:51 PM
That was my very first CDROM and it set me back about $350.00 IIRC. At that time (1993 or so?) I was rocking a tricked out 386 with a 50 MB hard-card. What I remember best was some fellow who was developing an OS/2 driver for the Mitsumi and actually succeeded. At that time I was into some news groups via MindSpring dial-up and was part of a OS/2 on-line cult, so everyone shared what ever resources they had.

vetz
February 9th, 2013, 10:30 AM
1993 is a good guess, Agent Orange. My drive is manufactured Feb 1993 and the drivers are from 1992 (can't remember the dates atm). It's alot slower than my 2X SCSI Sony caddy drive (CDU-561), but it does read CD-R media without issues. You press inwards to get the drive to "unlock" before the whole thing can be dragged out. You then open the lid to access the disc. Slide it back in untill you hear it "click".

Haven't seen any performance differences with using the software driver compared to the driver which requires a DMA/IRQ channel on my 486 DX4 100. The latter driver eats up 57kb of precious DOS memory with standard config! The bad thing about the software driver is that it takes a longer time to load during boot, but makes up for it with requiring only 10kb memory.

vetz
February 23rd, 2013, 05:05 AM
Made a short video with the drive in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUBeHWVHh9U&feature=youtu.be

Ozzuneoj
March 4th, 2016, 01:32 PM
Sorry for bumping a very old thread, I just had to scour the internet for hours to find the documentation for the 74-1645A ISA controller card for this Mitsumi drive. Basically, the IO settings are very hard to figure out without it. I found the manual and IO switch settings for a very similar card (Mitsumi 74-1881A), and it seems to be what I needed, though I still can't get my drive to work. It just doesn't seem to want to do anything. When I pull the drive out and slide it back in the busy light blinks once when its nearly closed. If I keep wiggling it in and out at that point it keeps flashing at the same point. I never hear any motor sounds or get anything from the busy light when I try to access the drive though.

Any ideas what could be wrong? I actually have three of these drives. So far, two do the same thing, so I'm not sure what it would be.

Anyway, the reason I bumped this thread was to provide the default IO switch settings for the 74-1881A so that anyone who finds this thread later on for that card or for the 74-1645A will be able to have some kind of documentation to work with.

29928

retrogear
March 4th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Well, just the basics of old cdrom drives, the laser has to return to the home position next to the spindle and then the lens does a hunt to detect media before it will spin.
The lens will get cloudy with dust and can be cleaned with a small q-tip and eyeglass cleaner. Just be gentle. The rails could be sticky preventing the laser from traveling.
Sometimes there is a small belt to move the tray in/out. If the tray doesn't fully load in, nothing else will happen. Of course you need old style media too, not cdrw or probably not cdr discs.

Larry G

Ozzuneoj
March 4th, 2016, 06:12 PM
Okay, so after dismantling one of the drives, cleaning rails, cleaning contacts, cleaning everything and putting it back together... it still won't read game disks from 1995. It just makes some slight spinning and clicking noises, and gives some errors.

So, just for kicks, I threw in a brand new CD (from 2014), loading "playcd.exe" that came with the drivers... and it played! I plugged a set of speakers into the headphone jack on the front of the drive and it sounds fantastic! No problems whatsoever.

Any ideas as to why I wouldn't be able to read data disks? All I'm doing is putting the disk in the drive, going to D: and typing dir and on some disks I get CDR101: Not ready reading drive D. Abort, Retry, Fail. When I choose fail it says there's no volume label for drive D. When I choose fail again I get "Fail on INT 24". With other disks I get "CDR103: CDROM not High Sierra or ISO-9660 format reading drive D" .

All of the disks I've tried so far are PC game disks from 1995 and 1994 (Star Trek: A Final Unity, Alien Logic, etc.). I really don't think I have anything older than that.

I've read a little bit about the error but haven't come up with much. Is it possible that DOS 6.22 (and its version of MSCDEX) is just not capable of handling a drive this old and non-standard?

T-R-A
April 3rd, 2016, 03:30 PM
Okay, so after dismantling one of the drives, cleaning rails, cleaning contacts, cleaning everything and putting it back together... it still won't read game disks from 1995. It just makes some slight spinning and clicking noises, and gives some errors.

So, just for kicks, I threw in a brand new CD (from 2014), loading "playcd.exe" that came with the drivers... and it played! I plugged a set of speakers into the headphone jack on the front of the drive and it sounds fantastic! No problems whatsoever.


Do the circa '94/'95 discs read in any other drive? If they've been stored "improperly", I'd suspect some degree deterioration has occurred (i.e. Disc Rot) to the point they won't read in your older drive (but maybe not to the point they wouldn't read in a newer one). See link below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_rot

nokia9110
July 27th, 2016, 03:52 PM
I'm curios, how much did you payed for this beauties?
I wish me one, but in the place where I live (Romania) I don't think I can find one.

Stone
July 27th, 2016, 04:36 PM
I think I have one with the proprietary interface card. If you want it I'll take a look for it.

nokia9110
July 28th, 2016, 01:04 AM
Tnanks, but I got too look in Europe for one. From U.S.A. to Romania the postage can cost as much as the unit...
I found a lot of nice stuff in U.S.A., but the transportation cost kills your dreams.

RWallmow
July 29th, 2016, 03:42 PM
I think I have one with the proprietary interface card. If you want it I'll take a look for it.

You have the drive and controller? I may have some interest in it, how much did you want for it?

Stone
July 30th, 2016, 03:33 AM
Hey Ryan,

I haven't used it in 20+ years and I haven't tested it lately either. If that works for you let's work something out.

RWallmow
July 31st, 2016, 12:48 PM
Hey Ryan,

I haven't used it in 20+ years and I haven't tested it lately either. If that works for you let's work something out.

Yeah I figured it would be as-is sale, what do you want for it?

Stone
July 31st, 2016, 02:13 PM
PM me with a reasonable offer and it's yours.