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Raven
December 28th, 2009, 07:34 AM
AHHHHHH!!!! It's all new-fangled and ugly, bring the simple old forum back!

Edit: Perhaps that was a bit harsh, but please make the old theme available as an option - I don't like this!

Bobthearch
December 28th, 2009, 07:47 AM
It'll take some getting used to, that's for sure.

One gripe, something that hopefully can be improved: All of the icons are big and 'bubbly', not terrible just the current trend. But the text in the forum posts is absolutely tiny.

ruthlessperson
December 28th, 2009, 08:01 AM
I agree the old forum was better looking give us the old one back.

Erik
December 28th, 2009, 09:19 AM
Sorry guys but going back is probably not an option.

I'll do what I can to address concerns with the new product, of course, but please give it time. Hopefully we'll all get used to it quickly. :)

fred3rd
December 28th, 2009, 09:20 AM
Navigation sucks, where's the link for today's post?

When I click the "Home" button, it says I don't have permissions so I click on Eric's wagon to get there.

kb2syd
December 28th, 2009, 09:23 AM
Were old threads deleted? I'm looking for the one about the Walnut Creek CP/M archive and can't find it. I have it available via anonymous FTP now and wanted to add to the existing thread.

Erik
December 28th, 2009, 09:26 AM
Navigation sucks, where's the link for today's post?

Up under the logo is a link for "New Posts" - also in that general area is a "What's New?" button that will show new posts, articles, blog entries and so on.

Erik
December 28th, 2009, 09:28 AM
Were old threads deleted? I'm looking for the one about the Walnut Creek CP/M archive and can't find it. I have it available via anonymous FTP now and wanted to add to the existing thread.

All old posts should still be here. Please let me know if you can't find one.

One thing to check is the Thread Display Options on the bottom of the page. The default is "past two months" but there are options to go all the way back to the beginning. . .

Advanced search should find what you need.

kb2syd
December 28th, 2009, 10:15 AM
Yep, found it after changing Thread Display options. One behavior of note is that if you use the simple search, it will only search threads within the "Thread Display" time window. Mine was throttled back to just show the last month's posts. After changing it to show all, search did find the thread I was looking for.

Edit - No it didn't. Try searching for "Walnut" using simple search. It doesn't find the updated walnut creek CP/M archive posting. At first I thought I didn't post the original message here last year, but I did find it from paging through the posts.

Thanks,
Kelly

linuxlove
December 28th, 2009, 11:23 AM
i'm kinda meh on the new forum layout. it's alright, but I just want to be taken directly to the forums, not see a bunch of other stuff.

tezza
December 28th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Just change your bookmark to http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/forum.php

This bypasses the front page.

Tez

Erik
December 28th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Just change your bookmark to http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/forum.php

This bypasses the front page.


Beat me to it! :D

Ole Juul
December 28th, 2009, 02:41 PM
I thought things were OK, but now I see that the posts don't change colour or shade to show which ones I've read. :( If that is case for everybody, then we have a huge usability hit there.

Ole Juul
December 28th, 2009, 03:10 PM
I was using FF before and just thought I'd try another browser. Here I am in Opera 10.10 and I am seeing the same problem with the text. It is grayed out! For some reason it is not showing up in pure black. It seems the only browser which displays the text correctly is Dillo. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Ole Juul
December 28th, 2009, 04:01 PM
I found a quick way to deal with the greyed fonts in FF. Under fonts and colours, check "use system colours" and then, of course, make sure your system colours are black for text.

Ole Juul
December 29th, 2009, 12:03 AM
I guess I might as well continue here. :) I suppose Eric is working on this, so forgive me if this is redundant.

The post dates have all changed to yesterday! That means that when logged in, I cannot see a list of today's posts. Also, the posts no longer have time and date in the index, which means one cannot remember what one has read by making a note of the time. So, logged in or not, there is no way to keep track of posts at the moment.

Edit: Oops! I didn't realize it was after midnight /blush
Anyway, I can still not see a list of recent posts when logged in, and the rest of my note is still valid.

digger
December 29th, 2009, 05:44 AM
It's funny how ambiguous the "Ahhh" in your topic title is...

It can either imply a great feeling of bliss or great frustration. I actually had to click on the topic title and read the opening post before I found out which one of the two it was in your case. ;)

ziloo
December 29th, 2009, 06:05 AM
Thank you Erik for your continuous effort to keep VC forum alive and
"non-vintage" all the time.

Althoug it was mentioned before, but I think the space for thread heading
and description is too small compared to the descripton for the thread
category. One must be able to know what the thread wants to say without
having to go to that category and read the title.

Thank you again for all you have done...

ziloo

NeXT
December 29th, 2009, 07:00 AM
Are you sure there are no other templates you can use? on 3200x1200 desktop it really makes me feel like I'm running at some lower resolution as well as everything is a lot more spaced out now. I liked it when things were a little more compact.

Securix
December 29th, 2009, 08:48 AM
I'm gonna take a guess and say the new forum update was required due to security concerns (bugs, vulnerabilities, etc) with the older version?

Just wondering....

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 09:42 AM
Are you sure there are no other templates you can use? on 3200x1200 desktop it really makes me feel like I'm running at some lower resolution as well as everything is a lot more spaced out now. I liked it when things were a little more compact.

Not yet.

I've been looking.

If anyone wants to they can check out developments over at vbulletin.org (http://www.vbulletin.org)(not the "official" vbulletin site.) If y'all see a template that looks like it'll be an improvement please let me know and I'll add it.

So far they've all been color/style changes without a substantial change to fonts or sizes which is, I think, our main concern.

The software went "gold" on Monday of last week so it may take a bit before the aftermarket template builders catch up. The font-size complaints have been sent to the developers so the default template may also change with a future update.

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 09:43 AM
I'm gonna take a guess and say the new forum update was required due to security concerns (bugs, vulnerabilities, etc) with the older version?

Just wondering....

In part, although security issues are usually addressed for previous releases as well. Eventually, however, they do fall off.

My main concern, aside from new features, was the support and updates model which changed with 4.0.

kb2syd
December 29th, 2009, 09:56 AM
Any reason why the quick search won't search older content? Any way to fix this, or am I still doing something wrong?

Vint
December 29th, 2009, 10:25 AM
It'd be one thing if the forum just had a new look, but this is like going from XP to Vista, and I don't mind telling you it stinks!
Soooo many things aren't working the way they did before. I can't resolve 'issues' in any sort of reasonable time -

Before you could click your name which brought up your profile, then click on Find All Posts - That doesn't work anymore. Clicking on HOME doesn't work right. Trying to load pictures into an album, (which 'was' super easy), I can't figure out where the uploaded pictures went. It wants me to 'attach' them - what's that mean? I upload, but they don't go into the album. The whole albums setup is completely different. It went from easy to very difficult to use.

When the issue of missing 'old threads' is brought up, the answer was (Erik) -
All old posts should still be here. Please let me know if you can't find one.

It used to be simple to find old threads I started or posts I'd made. Now I can only find yesterday's (2) posts - no matter what I do. I liked that feature, because sometimes I need a recall to see what I'd stated in an earlier post. Is that just gone now? Using Advanced searched brought up 17 posts by me - where's the other 200 +? I don't get it.

Another 'fix' that was mentioned was this (Erik) -
One thing to check is the Thread Display Options on the bottom of the page. The default is "past two months" but there are options to go all the way back to the beginning. . .

- Bottom of what page? I can't find that option anywhere on any page - (read frustration here.)
I'm logged in with 'remember me' and yet HOME still gives a Not permissable error. (I've found you need to click on the wagon, or Forums instead.)
Everything was sooo enjoyable, yet now - well, let me just go cool down I guess. It's not like I want instant results - I've spent way to much time already just trying to figure these issues out, to no avail.
Sorry if I'm complaining, I'm very sure Erik has poured a ton of effort into all this, but couldn't security be updated without messing with the interface? A new look is one thing - missing or unfindable features are another.
It's like plastic surjury gone awry. The end results are worse.

Where's Terry now - I bet he'd have some humor at least to interject here :)

GAL
December 29th, 2009, 10:40 AM
I went kicking 'n screaming from a Pet to a VIC20. I went kicking 'n screaming from a VIC20 to a C-64. I went kicking 'n screaming from a C-64 to a DOS PC. I went kicking 'n screaming from a DOS PC to WIN 3. I went kicking 'n screaming from WIN3 to WIN95. I went kicking 'n screaming from WIN95 to WIN98. I went kicking 'n screaming from WIN98 to WINME. I went kicking 'n screaming from WINME to XP. Thing is, change can be difficult however we all seem to adapt and adjust with time. Think what a change it would have been to go from a BBS Newsgroup to what we see now. So this should be cosidered a small baby step in the grand scheme. Erik, I like it.

tezza
December 29th, 2009, 10:56 AM
I've used the new setup quite a lot now and apart from the small default font when replying, haven't fouind any issues. I just bypass the front page entirely and go straight to the forums. I've viewed historical threads and uploaded an image without a problem. What I do like is the way the software can embed an uploaded image inline. I don't think it could do this before (or if it could, I missed it).

I run a discussion forum myself and can tell you security issues (Spam and Bot-postings) are a real headache. Eventually they find thier way around the security barriers and you have to update. Unless you want to spend a lot of time and effort you are forced to accept the new template/look/functions of the upgade.

These are probably just teething problems but let's not forget Erik is maintaining this for free, and time spent learning a new layout is probably a lot less than he would spend upgrading and maintaining the site.

Tez

P.S Vint I wonder if you issues are because you are trying to find your way around from the front page, rather then the forums section?

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 11:11 AM
Wish I could say something nice about the new look, but I gotta agree with most of Vint's rant. I'm on several other forums with a similar look and feel and coming back to the (old) VC forum has always been a breath of fresh air in terms of legibility, features and ease of use.

Seems to be the trend today, periodically changing software L&F and thus wasting the time of 1000s if not millions of people who'd rather just get things done instead of playing an adventure game looking for the old familiar tools and treasures, and usually without any real functional improvements to show for it; I suppose some authors figure they can't go wrong following the Microsoft model ;-)

Erik, my sympathies. I'm sure this is (and will be) a lot of work and in practical terms you probably had no choice; pity that you're getting so many more complaints than appreciation, so even if I don't like the changes thank you for your hard work!

We'll adapt to the look & feel changes, but I can't find any old posts either; I hope this is just a trivial thing that I'm overlooking or Erik can fix easily, because that is a fairly important feature.

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 11:16 AM
I've used the new setup quite a lot now and apart from the small default font when replying, haven't fouind any issues. I just bypass the front page entirely and go straight to the forums. I've viewed historical threads and uploaded an image without a problem. What I do like is the way the software can embed an uploaded image inline. I don't think it could do this before (or if it could, I missed it).

Looks like you're going to be the resident expert then, Tez; am I just missing something when I can't find any old posts by myself or other members?

Haven't tried the new way yet, but I think you always could embed uploaded images; maybe it's easier now.

mike

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 11:19 AM
It's funny how ambiguous the "Ahhh" in your topic title is...

It can either imply a great feeling of bliss or great frustration. I actually had to click on the topic title and read the opening post before I found out which one of the two it was in your case. ;)
I think he meant "AAARGHHH!!!"
;-)

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 11:38 AM
Maybe we could have a Q&A blog/article listing what & how things are different?

tezza
December 29th, 2009, 12:06 PM
If I'm an expert then the Pope is the Archbishop of Canterbury :)


Am I just missing something when I can't find any old posts by myself or other members?


I can only find my own postings from yesterday and today. Probably just some setting that needs tweaking. Messages seem to be there. I browsed through some CP/M ones yesterday for a project I'm involved in. Listed messages go back to 2003. I didn't try a search though.

Tez

kishy
December 29th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Something to make note of, I don't "have permission" to view the "homepage" when I'm logged in. Not logged in, no problem.

Oh, and the searching thing should be fixed if someone goes in the admin panel and rebuilds the search cache.

Would really like to see a more square-edged theme put in place...looks like vB is heading in the direction of a Web 2.0 style interface and Web 2.0 = Web 2.ugly to me.

Good job minimizing downtime though Erik, that's always a challenge. I was on the forum at one point and about an hour later I came back and the transition was seemingly complete.

Ole Juul
December 29th, 2009, 02:26 PM
My solutions:

Regarding old posts, I find that Google is often better than internal searches on forums. That said, not showing all of ones old posts was not an informed (or concerned) choice. :)

It is easy to keep a piece of paper by the computer and write down the last post. That is a good way to keep track now that the software doesn't do it. After midnight, when the time is not displayed on the list any more, just click on the last post and leave from there. I've always found that paper and pencil is my friend when dealing with computers. :)

The shade bar at the bottom of each post line in the main menu covers up part of the text above. By making the fonts extra small this is avoided. I've also noted that it is browser dependent, so I might just change browser for this forum.

When posting I just bump the font size up to 180% (Ctrl-+), that brings it up to about 11 points in the text box, which is traditional for quality books and excellent for readability.

Vint
December 29th, 2009, 03:13 PM
I believe what we have here is a failure to communicate . . .
Being the fact that not all computers are equal - then not all software if going to run equally well either.
It's the old 'your mileage may vary' syndrome, I'm afraid.
I've read several comments about the 'new and improved' forum and I've come to the consensus that it's just not running the same on the bulk of machines that the old version did. Some of us are having troubles that others simply aren't, and visa-versa.
I don't know the answer - I guess majority rules.
I for one, am just going to go sit in the corner for awhile.

Ole Juul
December 29th, 2009, 04:18 PM
I don't know the answer - I guess majority rules.
I for one, am just going to go sit in the corner for awhile.
At first, I thought it was fine, but now I see that it doesn't work for me. I do think that people enjoy different things. For some of us the software is not very pleasant to use and obviously we won't be participating quite as much as we did because of that. I'll join you in the corner for a bit and we'll see if the software gets fixed. Perhaps there is some client side software that can make the forum more usable.

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 04:40 PM
Just tried to upload an attachment for someone and it looks like several screen areas overlap each other blocking any access to uploading files that I can see. XP Pro, IE 6

Can't choose any alternate style or language; access denied to articles, odd things happening in various places, etc. ; this is Gold???

Think I'll sit it out for a while as well; too much aggravation.

ruthlessperson
December 29th, 2009, 05:22 PM
Don't want to pick and nag but this new interface just is bad... the vintage old browsers don't like it one bit. It's clutter and confusing and just over all hard on the eyes.

tezza
December 29th, 2009, 05:43 PM
Just tried to upload an attachment for someone and it looks like several screen areas overlap each other blocking any access to uploading files that I can see. XP Pro, IE 6

This happened to me when I first went to upload an image too (XP Pro, IE8). I found if I stretched out the browser window the overlaps disappeared. Mind you, you have to have the necessary screen real estate to do this.

Tez

fred3rd
December 29th, 2009, 05:44 PM
I’m just going to be patient and wait this out a little. I never got anything for free that didn’t have a few bugs in it initially. In the end it always works out. In the mean time I’m going to continue reading this post and absorb information while Eric works on the real bugs.

I think the key here is, “be patient.”

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 05:46 PM
Something to make note of, I don't "have permission" to view the "homepage" when I'm logged in. Not logged in, no problem.
Are you getting this message: "If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/faq.php?) by clicking the link above. You may have to register (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/register.php?) before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. "

If so, that's normal since you don't have permission to post on the Home page - only the Forums and Blogs.


Oh, and the searching thing should be fixed if someone goes in the admin panel and rebuilds the search cache.

I did that after the upgrade. I'll do it again shortly.



Good job minimizing downtime though Erik, that's always a challenge. I was on the forum at one point and about an hour later I came back and the transition was seemingly complete.

Yeah, for once the transition was quick. . . total downtime was around 15 minutes.

linuxlove
December 29th, 2009, 05:54 PM
I really like these styles:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=231464
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228212

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 06:01 PM
Well, I had tried different resolutions, full screen, various sizes, no joy; decided to offer to send it off-list instead and complain here ;-)

I really think this isn't quite ready for prime time; again, Erik has my sympathy...

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 06:04 PM
I really like these styles:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=231464
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228212
Umm, yeah, but how do you change styles? As I said in a previous post, the change style/language options don't work for me.

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 06:58 PM
Something to make note of, I don't "have permission" to view the "homepage" when I'm logged in. Not logged in, no problem.

Eep! :oops:

I think I just figured this one out. . . tell me if I fixed it.

MikeS
December 29th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Works for me.

hmbrew
December 29th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Yup, all better.

One thing that I wouldn't mind is a more minimalist theme. (less bubbly and shiny)

I also agree with those who want better contrast of colors.

Erik, you have my gratitude for trying to sort this all out for us. I completely understand about trying to keep up with shaky upgrades. (been through similar things myself)

Vint
December 29th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Yea! Ok, now the HOME page is working for me. The Find All Posts is working again.
Now we're talking! I thought for a while all hope was lost on getting things done in a normal manner.
Erik must be working overtime on this thing - Thanks :D

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 08:00 PM
I really like these styles:

http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=231464
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228212

It doesn't look like either addresses the font sizes at all. . .

arfink
December 29th, 2009, 08:43 PM
It's probably already been said, but I do like the old style better. Although, this isn't that bad. I'll be more inclined to use it when the kinks are worked out.

Erik
December 29th, 2009, 08:46 PM
Yea! Ok, now the HOME page is working for me. The Find All Posts is working again.
Now we're talking! I thought for a while all hope was lost on getting things done in a normal manner.
Erik must be working overtime on this thing - Thanks :D

And thank you!

I'm going to keep plugging away - but tomorrow. Today is over for my brain so it's time to make the body follow suit. :)

I know that the changes were fairly dramatic (and somewhat unexpected!) but I also know that everything we all love about the Vintage Computer Forum is still here. . . because it was never really about the software. ;)

kishy
December 29th, 2009, 09:06 PM
You got it Erik, thanks.

Mike Chambers
December 29th, 2009, 11:43 PM
yeah i agree completely with the TS. i don't like the new vBulletin layout. it's not Erik's fault though. he could stick with the old one but then eventually the company wouldn't provide him support, and future add-ons wouldn't work with the old version.

another forum i frequent just switch to vB 4.0 too. i just dont like it. it rubs me the wrong way.

Yzzerdd
December 30th, 2009, 09:04 PM
Erik,

Please oh God please change the fourms back. I'm gone for 3 days and this is what happens? Do I need to hire a baby sitter?

But seriously, OMG I hate it. I liked the old phpbb (or whatever it was) forums. The Vbulletin was pretty cool, the previous version. Really flowed together. When I loaded the page for this new forum, I immediately thought it looked like one of those fake pages you get when you barely mis-spell the name of a website. The interface is too bubbly and obnoxious. When you hit reply to thread, it seems to automatically redirect to "Quick Reply." OTOH, I think the "Q" is different. I like the "Q" better.

Oh, and for whatever reason, my PIII 700MHz Windows XP desktop will not work with this website anymore. It never actually logs me in. I'm clearing my cookies and seeing if that helps. I'm on my dad's laptop for now. And whats with the blog thingy? Also, just cleared everything on my desktop. Still no dice.

Unpleasantly surprised,

--Ryan
EDIT: A car forum I frequent is still using the old Vbulletin software (3.7.5 I think). I wonder if it'll change over too. I sure hope not. First my vintage computers....next, the classic Oldsmobile site. *shudder*