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billdeg
July 7th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I have another post on the items wanted section looking for a PAL monitor (Commodore if possible) because I don't want to alter any of my computers that send a PAL signal, but I want to test/use them with American equipment. I already have the power converter for the plugs.

If there is some sort of adapter that converts an English Commodore signal to work on an American Commodore monitor without loss of quality, I would like to know. Is there?

In general is it better to get a PAL monitor or will a PAL to NTSC converter be a just as good and more convenient option? I wish to avoid the expense of having to ship a PAL monitor to the states from England just to mess around with a computer so I am looking for options.

carlsson
July 8th, 2005, 01:14 AM
As far as I know, PAL is 625 lines @ 50 Hz while NTSC is 525 lines @ 60 Hz. To me, it seems a converter from PAL to NTSC would have to squeeze the picture into the fewer lines. On the video game market (Xbox etc), there seem to be plenty of converters like this, at least from NTSC to PAL for us Europeans.

There are also some TV to VGA converters on the market. I don't know if the higher definition on a VGA or better monitor will make a better PAL picture than a NTSC monitor.

Also, when you're looking for a Commodore (PAL) monitor, there are some different ones and everyone have their own favorite. I believe the features are the same on both PAL and NTSC, so if you are familiar with the models and like one in particular, you may look for a PAL version of that one; 1701/02, 1801/02, 1901/02, 1084/S and so on.

carlsson
July 8th, 2005, 01:24 AM
A few links from a Google search on "PAL to NTSC converter":

http://www.yoho-games.com/A_V_Accessories/9/cat.aspx
http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/Misc_htm/m_kdv500.htm

There are of course more dealers and similar products out there. It depends on how much you're willing to spend and if you can think of more than one need. The universal dual-direction converter sounds sweet if it really produces so good image as advertised, in particular if you would travel around a lot and have an array of both PAL and NTSC devices.

My PAL TV seems to display NTSC in colour, but I don't know if it is NTSC-50, PAL-60 or whatever it is called. At least the NTSC C64DTV displayed correctly, including the opening demo-like screen.

billdeg
July 8th, 2005, 04:13 AM
I want to do development on a P500, so I would like the display to be as true PAL as possible. I am starting to think that I should get a real monitor. A PAL 1701/2 would be best I think.

Kaptain Skitzo
July 10th, 2005, 05:25 PM
I'm assuming the P500 is a PAL Amiga 500?
If so, you'll probably need a PAL monitor. There are software converters(which work quite well, actually)...Degrader is one I can think of off of the top of my head....but the screen looks slightly crunched.
I take it you are trying to use PAL software on an NTSC monitor(or, that is your intention)?
Degrader will work on a stock Amiga 500, with only 1MB of memory.

billdeg
July 11th, 2005, 06:02 AM
No...I have a Commodore P500 computer (B series) that sends a PAL monitor signal similar to that of the C64/128. I need a 1701/02/1801 that'd typically be used with a C64/C128 from England.

I don't want to chop up the computer (or even open it), I'd rather have a PAL monitor and keep it stock, due to its rarity and my lack of confidence with a soldering iron. If the P500 is anything like the B128 closing the machine case after doing repairs is an ordeal.

I was hoping to find a PAL monitor in the states to avoid extra shipping. Maybe even pick one up if anyone out there is from the US MidAtlantic region.

Kaptain Skitzo
July 11th, 2005, 03:24 PM
I live in Baltimore, MD. But I'm not sure exactly what your problem is...could you post a picture(or link to a picture) of the unit? It might help me to understand exactly what you are in need of.

billdeg
July 11th, 2005, 04:55 PM
I need a Commodore PAL monitor because my Commodore P500 sends a PAL video signal. If you plug a computer that sends a PAL signal to an NTSC monitor you don't get color and the picture looks terrible. When the Commodores were manuafactured, they were made to be either PAL or NTSC compatible.

Here is a link to explain why...

http://www.everythingav.com.au/tip.asp?id=9

I have a PAL C128D, Commodore P500 and VC 20 (German).

I am looking for someone in the States with a PAL monitor to sell. I can get them from the English Ebay, but then I have to pay extra shipping to get it to me. I thought I'd try for someone in the States first, does not hurt to ask. I would assume that not many people would have a PAL monitor in the States, unless they collect computers from Europe.

Terry Yager
July 11th, 2005, 05:02 PM
GB & other parts of the world use a different TV standard than we do in the US. The GB standard is called "PAL" and elsewhere "SECAM" is the standard, whereas here it is "NTSC." The standards have mainly to do with the number of horizontal scan lines, and are generally incompatible with one another.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-03,GGLD:en&q=define%3Antsc

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-03,GGLD:en&q=define%3Apal

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-03,GGLD:en&q=define%3Asecam

--T

carlsson
July 12th, 2005, 10:21 AM
Mweah.. SECAM is mainly used in France and possibly Russia. But there are several subcarriers of PAL which should not be mixed. Theoretically, a PAL monitor could be bought from eBay in UK, Germany, Holland, Sweden and so on, with regard to the audio. In Bill's case, it doesn't matter so much as he knows exactly what he is looking for already. :)

If you get yourself a monitor or TV that natively displays PAL-50, maybe it would also work? I assume the P500 programming does not involve too much raster effects and such?

carlsson
July 12th, 2005, 10:36 AM
By the way, rather interesting Wikipedia pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_television_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseband

I had never heard of "baseband" before. I wonder if a baseband NTSC signal, e.g. from a video game is the same as some people refer to as PAL-60 when it comes to display it on a PAL TV. The key point would then be that the baseband signal consists of the low, natural frequencies instead of modulated into RF range, and that the TV can identify and display the "pure" signal but not the modulated one.

mpatoray
October 23rd, 2005, 09:28 PM
Hi,

If all you need to display is compoit video not RF(IE a TV Channel) Just go on eBay ang get a Sony PVM-127Q 12 inch multistandard monitor(it automatically picks the right one) Or if you want a cream colored monitor to match your commodore get a Sony SSM-14N5U it is cleam colored and is newer mine was made in june 2000 and it has na S-Video input so you can display the Y/C video that some commodore computers put out. Both of these monitors have sound built in and the 127Q can display RGB but not Y/C.

or just get your self a Panasonic AG-W1 Universal VCR that can convert display play and record any non HD video format, except for 405 and 819 line.

Matt

billdeg
October 24th, 2005, 10:14 AM
Would you pay $250 for a PAL 1701? (shipping from the UK is $225!)

vic user
October 24th, 2005, 10:50 AM
maybe TPUG can help you out?

they are much closer than Europe, and once in a while i do hear of PAL devices being mentioned and even offered through them.

worth a shot.

chris

billdeg
October 24th, 2005, 03:41 PM
I sent them an email, thanks.