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View Full Version : Copy II PC Option Board install questions on a Tandy 1000 / Tandy 1000 SX



tremoloman2006
March 28th, 2010, 06:49 AM
Hello everyone!

I'm new here and an avid old school gamer. Back in 1985 I had an original Tandy 1000 with an option board. It served me well for many years and over time somehow it vanished from my possession.

I wanted to get back into all my old Tandy 1000 games and purchased a Tandy 1000 SX and got an option board. Problem is, the version I got didn't support the Tandy 1000 when it was 1st released so the manual has no instructions on how to properly install it.

Does anyone here have install instructions for the Tandy 1000 or have an Option Board installed in a Tandy 1000 I may use as a reference?

I realize I also need an extended cable to install it so if someone can guide me in the right direction I would be forever grateful!

I'm DYING to get this going and look forward to meeting all of you via responses.

I'm very active over at AtariAge so don't hesitate to swing by!

Best regards,
Trem

P.S. Thanks to Great Hierophant for steering me to this wonderful forum! :)

mikey99
March 28th, 2010, 07:23 AM
Hi, which version of the Copy Option Board do you have ? I think there are several different
versions. the original one, the Deluxe , etc. There are a few on eBay that ended recently
so you might try looking at the pictures there to determine. If support for the Tandy was
added later, then you might need a new driver or possibly BIOS update.

tremoloman2006
March 28th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Thank you for your reply! :)

Here's a picture of mine complete in box. The picture of the board as shown is the identical model I have.

Best regards,
Trem

mikey99
March 28th, 2010, 05:26 PM
That looks like the original Copy Option board. I dont see a BIOS chip on the card
so if there were any updates done to support the Tandy it would have been a software
driver or a later release of the card.
Or perhaps only the later board , the Copy Option Deluxe, supported the Tandy.

If you find out exactly which version supports the Tandy, maybe you could offer
your card as a trade to someone for the correct version.

mikey99
March 28th, 2010, 05:33 PM
I found a few pages with tons of info about the Option Boards:

http://retro.icequake.net/dob/

ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/OptionBoard/

You should contact member Trixter , I think he's the local expert on the Option board.


BTW , Trixter, amazing job on archiving those Option boards on the ftp site :-)

per
March 28th, 2010, 08:11 PM
As far as I know, the board doesn't work as a FloppyDrive Controller (FDC) by its own. It actually connects between the FDC and floppydrive, and it is solely driven by software run from disk (that's why it doesn't have a ROM).

I would guess you could get the card to work if you got hold of an ISA > Tandy-bus adapter. I know therse exist, but not all cards will work with it (as some of the lines don't exist in a tandy, like the DMA lines IIRC).

tremoloman2006
March 28th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll send Trixter a PM and see if he can help out.

I'm glad to be part of this forum - you guys rock! :)

tremoloman2006
April 10th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Well I tried to install the board and I think I see why it needed a "special" cable... it just needs a long connector since the floppy cables are super short on the Tandy 1000.

Is there anywhere online that offers long cables for such old things like floppy drives? <crosses fingers>

Raven
April 10th, 2010, 08:51 PM
I have huge floppy cables. The longest are the ones that are designed to be versatile. They have five connectors total, giving you the choice between an edge and a pin connector at the two points for putting a drive onto the cable. The benefit of that (other than versatility if you don't have adapters) is that the cables are super-long. I have several of these and if you can't find one I can sell you one - PM me with an offer if you want - but you should probably check eBay, they aren't THAT hard to find.

If you ever decide to sell that board, I'd be quite interested.

tremoloman2006
April 12th, 2010, 09:19 AM
Thank you for the offer. I double checked to see how this would all go together. I took out the floppy drives (2 x 360K) and then installed the Option Board to see how everything lines up.

According to the manual, here's how it is supposed to be installed:

1. Remove the cover of the PC.
2. Disconnect the cable from the drives to the floppy disk controller (FDC).
3. Move the FDC one slot to the left.
4. Insert the Option Board into the slot previously occupied by the FDC.
5. Connect the cable from the drives to the Option Board.
6. Connect the Option Board's cable to the FDC.
7. Replace the PC's cover.

Since I have a Tandy 1000, the FDC in embedded in the motherboard. I searched online and found a picture of an original XT floppy card:

http://users.telenet.be/lust/IBMXT/ibmpcxt%209.jpg

Based on the install instructions and the image above, I'm confused. I took a couple pictures of my Tandy 1000 with the cover off, floppies removed, and the brand new Option board resting on the power supply.

3436 3437

Would someone please take a look at my setup below and give me recommendations on what cables I need to set this up properly?

I'm really desperate to get this going so any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated! I've gone over this so many times in my head that my brain has become mush.

Thanks in advance,
Trem

strollin
April 12th, 2010, 11:16 AM
The cable to your floppy drives should attach to the rear connector on the OB. The cable from the OB should connect to the original FDC.

mikey99
April 12th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Sounds like you need some specific cables to complete Steps 5 and 6 below:


1. Remove the cover of the PC.
2. Disconnect the cable from the drives to the floppy disk controller (FDC).
3. Move the FDC one slot to the left.
4. Insert the Option Board into the slot previously occupied by the FDC.
5. Connect the cable from the drives to the Option Board.
*****You'll need a cable with THREE DRIVE connectors , one for each drive and one for the edge connector on the options board
Ideally one from an old IBM PC would work as this is where the options board was designed to be used
6. Connect the Option Board's cable to the FDC.
*****You'll need a cable with TWO BERG connectors (like the one plugged onto the card in your second picture)...... one will plug onto the MB interface, and the other to the PINS connector on the options board.
OBSERVE POLARITY WHEN ATTACHING THIS CABLE AS YOU DONT WANT TO DAMAGE THE CARD OR MB
7. Replace the PC's cover.

tremoloman2006
April 12th, 2010, 01:11 PM
Thank you for the responses everyone!

Is there somewhere on the net I can grab cables such as these?
If anyone has such a cable and would be willing to sell me one PLEASE IM me. :)

This is turning out to be much more diffucult than I had anticipated. I keep beating myself up thinking "Why did I give my old Tandy 1000 with the option board to my girlfriend at the time back in 1992?". I thought "Oh, I'll never need that system again"... boy was I ever wrong!

I REALLY appreciate everyone's help and patience here. I'm so happy to have found this forum! :)

Take care,
Trem

tremoloman2006
April 22nd, 2010, 09:29 AM
Just a friendly bump!

Is there someone who could help me with the special cabling needed to get this going? <crosses fingers>

Thanks in advance,
Trem

MikeS
April 22nd, 2010, 09:53 AM
Just a friendly bump!

Is there someone who could help me with the special cabling needed to get this going? <crosses fingers>

Thanks in advance,
TremIf you can tell me *exactly* what you need I'd be happy to find or make one for you.

It sounds like you have the cable to go from the CPOB to your on-board floppy controller (34-pin dual-row header on each end), and only need a cable with three 34-position edge connectors?

Can you (and preferably also someone else who has this actual configuration) confirm that and also determine how long it should be, where the centre connector should be, and whether it has a twist or not? I assume you already have one but with a header plug on one end instead of a card edge?

How about a picture of your original floppy cable?

tremoloman2006
April 22nd, 2010, 01:17 PM
If you can tell me *exactly* what you need I'd be happy to find or make one for you.

It sounds like you have the cable to go from the CPOB to your on-board floppy controller (34-pin dual-row header on each end), and only need a cable with three 34-position edge connectors?

Can you (and preferably also someone else who has this actual configuration) confirm that and also determine how long it should be, where the centre connector should be, and whether it has a twist or not? I assume you already have one but with a header plug on one end instead of a card edge?

How about a picture of your original floppy cable?

If you could make me a cable I would be forever grateful!

I've looked all over the internet trying to find a picture of the special cable needed for the Tandy 1000 and/or an owner of such but I've had no luck in my year of searching. I'm desperate in trying to get this going so I'll do whatever it takes to get this thing going once and for all!

Here are pictures of the floppy controller connector, floppy cable, and the floppy drives themselves. If this does not answer all your questions please let me know and I'll give you whatever information necessary!

I cannot thank you enough for your help!

Trem

MikeS
April 22nd, 2010, 01:37 PM
If you could make me a cable I would be forever grateful!

I've looked all over the internet trying to find a picture of the special cable needed for the Tandy 1000 and/or an owner of such but I've had no luck in my year of searching. I'm desperate in trying to get this going so I'll do whatever it takes to get this thing going once and for all!

Here are pictures of the floppy controller connector, floppy cable, and the floppy drives themselves. If this does not answer all your questions please let me know and I'll give you whatever information necessary!

I cannot thank you enough for your help!

TremJust to confirm:

You have the cable that goes from the on board header to the dual-row header on the CPOB, no problem there; correct?

What you need is a cable like your original in the picture, but longer and with another edge connector like the other two instead of the blue header; correct?

If so, how much longer, i.e. what distance between the middle connector and the end that goes on to the CPOB?

Have you tried emailing Trixter off-list in case he can confirm whether this will work on your 1000?

mike

mikey99
April 22nd, 2010, 02:20 PM
For the "cable that goes from the on board header to the dual-row header on the CPOB"
You could probably just use a 40 pin IDE drive cable and let the extra 6 pins (34 vs 40 ) hang
over one end of the connector (or do a little surgery with an Xacto knife :-) )
Just make sure you have the cable attached correctly, you need to know where PIN 1 is on both headers.

For the other cable, its basically just an IBM PC floppy cable with three edge connectors.
Although this might be tough to find nowadays. You could probably just take a more
common floppy cable that has the two edge connectors , and press another edge connector onto the
cable in place of the header. Just make sure its oriented correctly to match the other two
edge connectors (I think these do have a key).

MikeS
April 22nd, 2010, 05:45 PM
For the "cable that goes from the on board header to the dual-row header on the CPOB"
You could probably just use a 40 pin IDE drive cable and let the extra 6 pins (34 vs 40 ) hang
over one end of the connector (or do a little surgery with an Xacto knife :-) )
Just make sure you have the cable attached correctly, you need to know where PIN 1 is on both headers.

For the other cable, its basically just an IBM PC floppy cable with three edge connectors.
Although this might be tough to find nowadays. You could probably just take a more
common floppy cable that has the two edge connectors , and press another edge connector onto the
cable in place of the header. Just make sure its oriented correctly to match the other two
edge connectors (I think these do have a key).Looks like he's got the first cable already, and it looks like there's no 'PC twist' in the other cable (unless the CPOB uses it).

tremoloman2006
April 27th, 2010, 08:56 PM
I wish I had the skills to hack a 40-pin cable down to a 32 but I don't. Creating custom parts is definitely not my forte. I'd be happy to pay someone to build the proper cabling I need to get this puppy going.

mikey99
May 2nd, 2010, 08:56 AM
I wish I had the skills to hack a 40-pin cable down to a 32 but I don't. Creating custom parts is definitely not my forte. I'd be happy to pay someone to build the proper cabling I need to get this puppy going.

You dont really need to hack the cable down from 40 to 34 pin. Just plug the 40 pin cable onto the
pins leaving the unneeded 6 pins overhanging. Should work fine just make sure you get pin 1
correct on BOTH ends. Use the side of the cable with the red wire to go to pin 1 on both the motherboard connector
and the Options board. Looking at the pictures you posted there is plenty of room to accomodate
the overhang. It would only be a problem if there was some tall component mounted close to the
connector.

For the other cable I removed the floppy cable from one of my PCs to show what you need.
This is the type of cable that will run from the EDGE connector on the Options board to your floppy drives.
The picture on the left is the floppy cable with THREE edge connectors. I did a quick search
on Google and couldn't find these available anywhere but it might just take some more looking.
Please note that this one has the twist on the connector at the far right of the cable. Your floppy
cable doesn't have a twist so you may need to change the jumpers on the B: floppy drive if
you use a cable like this with the twist.

The second picture just shows the 40 pin IDE cable I was describing at the beginning of this post.
These are very common.

Based on the docs available at the following link.... you have the 1985 Option Board... and the cables
I have described above should work :
ftp://ftp.oldskool.org/pub/OptionBoard/%281985%29%20CopyIIPC%20Option%20Board/Package%20Contents/Documentation/

mikey99
May 2nd, 2010, 09:26 AM
BTW did you ever contact Trixter to verify this card will in fact work in the Tandy 1000SX ?

tremoloman2006
June 2nd, 2010, 01:35 PM
Thank you for the pictures mikey99!

I did contact Trixter... he wasn't able to verify it would work in a Tandy 1000 SX or not.

Chuck(G)
June 3rd, 2010, 08:15 PM
In my copy of the 1986 Rev. A Option Board manual, it states that you should set the jumper for DMA 1 for the Tandy 1000 and invoke TC with the /C1 option. Also, Central Point provided their own cable for the 1000--which is nothing more than a 34-pin edge connector-to-34-position female dual-row header. Connect your motherboard to the controller using J3 and hook the drives to J2. It's a little contorted.

J4, J5 and J6 should be set identically--the two jumpers occupying the 4 pins toward the bottom of the board (AT/Compaq setting, DMA 1).

Apparently, the DOB won't work with a Tandy 1200.

FWIW, I've got that 1986 Rev. A CopyIIPC Option Board with documentation available. First $50 with shipping takes it.

MikeS
June 3rd, 2010, 10:41 PM
In my copy of the 1986 Rev. A Option Board manual, it states that you should set the jumper for DMA 1 for the Tandy 1000 and invoke TC with the /C1 option. Also, Central Point provided their own cable for the 1000--which is nothing more than a 34-pin edge connector-to-34-position female dual-row header. Connect your motherboard to the controller using J3 and hook the drives to J2. It's a little contorted..
Well, I offered to make him the cable(s) a month ago but never got a reply to my question about length, so I guess it's just a problem to be discussed for a while instead of being resolved ;-)

But just for my own curiosity, I thought that the edge connector goes to the drive(s) and the dual-row header <> edge connector cable that comes with the card goes to the FDC edge connector; but I also thought that the Tandy also used a dual-row FDC connector on the mobo like later PCs, yet you say the cable for the 1000 has an edge connector on one end - what am I missing?

Chuck(G)
June 4th, 2010, 05:00 AM
J3 on the OB is an edge connector and J2 is a dual-row header, Mike. So you connect up the Tandy as if it were an AT-style setup--the drive cable goes to J2, the dual-oow header and the cable included with the OB goes from J3 (edge connector) to the Tandy dual-row header. Note that on a PC XT, it's just the reverse--the drive cable attaches to the edge connector and the included cable goes from the dual-row header to the edge connector on the XT floppy controller.

Does this make sense?

MikeS
June 4th, 2010, 09:29 AM
J3 on the OB is an edge connector and J2 is a dual-row header, Mike. So you connect up the Tandy as if it were an AT-style setup--the drive cable goes to J2, the dual-oow header and the cable included with the OB goes from J3 (edge connector) to the Tandy dual-row header. Note that on a PC XT, it's just the reverse--the drive cable attaches to the edge connector and the included cable goes from the dual-row header to the edge connector on the XT floppy controller.

Does this make sense?Ah, so I take it that the OB just sits in parallel with the FDC and J2 & J3 are in fact equivalent electrically? So it doesn't really matter what goes where and a header-header cable from J2 to the O/B FDC with a triple edge connector cable from J3 to the drives (as discussed) would work just as well?

Sounds like what this case needs is a cable like the one the OB came with.

Neat; if I hadn't vowed to not spend another dime on this 'hobby' I'd be tempted to buy that OB off ya.

Chuck(G)
June 4th, 2010, 10:05 AM
Yes, the OB actually uses the host floppy controller for seeking and the like. it's pretty much a pass-through in normal operation.

I think we may have a taker already. I don't really need the OB, as I already have 2 DOBs.

Trixter
September 29th, 2011, 07:30 PM
Sorry, I dropped off the map almost completely. I plan on getting back into retrocomputing in about a month, writing some new software that will help our hobby.

I'm curious if tremoloman2006 was ever able to get this to work. The Tandy SX would be one of the last machines I would put it in due to the odd connectors, but it should work.

Great Hierophant
September 30th, 2011, 04:16 AM
My OB works in my Tandy 1000 SX with DMA set to 1 and using the /C1 option for Transcopy. There is nothing odd about the floppy cable for the Tandy 1000 SX except that the supplied cables are awfully short.

I can tell you what is wrong, however. His card is the long TTL card, which does not have the jumpers to set it to DMA1. It won't work until he busts out his soldering iron and X-acto knife.

If the OP has the cable supplied with the OB (card edge to pin), then his battle is half-won. He can use a "universal" floppy cable for the rest after he untwists the twist.

tremoloman2006
September 30th, 2011, 05:42 PM
Well, I offered to make him the cable(s) a month ago but never got a reply to my question about length, so I guess it's just a problem to be discussed for a while instead of being resolved ;-)

But just for my own curiosity, I thought that the edge connector goes to the drive(s) and the dual-row header <> edge connector cable that comes with the card goes to the FDC edge connector; but I also thought that the Tandy also used a dual-row FDC connector on the mobo like later PCs, yet you say the cable for the 1000 has an edge connector on one end - what am I missing?

I'm sorry! I didn't realize you offered to make me the cable I needed. If that offer still stands I'm definitely interested!

tremoloman2006
September 30th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Sorry, I dropped off the map almost completely. I plan on getting back into retrocomputing in about a month, writing some new software that will help our hobby.

I'm curious if tremoloman2006 was ever able to get this to work. The Tandy SX would be one of the last machines I would put it in due to the odd connectors, but it should work.

I have to apologize for the same myself! I was unemployed last year and had too much time on my hands. I finally got back to work after 8 months. It's contract work which means no sick time, no vacation, no benefits - but I'm happy to take it with this lousy economy.

I'm definitely interested in getting this to go so if there is any help you can offer I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd be willing to pay someone to create a cable for my Tandy 1000. I've got a sealed copy of Super Boulderdash I refuse to open until I get this going. It's my all time favorite game and it's KILLING me not to play it because I'm afraid of ruining the only good disk I have of it for the 1000. (This version supported the Tandy color palette).

Thank you to everyone here who has replied and offered their knowledge, advice, and detailed information. You have no idea how much it is appreciated. :)

Best regards,
Trem

Great Hierophant
October 1st, 2011, 08:00 AM
Does your board have a jumper to set DMA1? If it doesn't, the board will not work. You will need to trace the ISA pin connector B6, cut the trace and solder a wire from it to B18. Ditto for B26 to B17.

The cable that comes with an Option board has a 34-connector card edge on one end and a a 34-pin connector on the other end. The pin connector plugs into the floppy port on the motherboard, the edge connector to the card edge on the OB.

Buy one of these and untwist the cable :

http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=17195

The 34-pin connector plugs into the pin header on the OB. You set all four jumpers to "AT/COMPAQ".

Use TC.EXE /C1.

It would work just fine within the limits of the Board.