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aitotat
May 28th, 2010, 05:05 AM
I found some old PC stuff, mostly IBM systems:

IBM 5150 (4 of these but one of them has only two cards and no floppy drives)
IBM 5160 with manuals (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Manuals/)
IBM 5161 expansion unit (with cable)
IBM 5152 printer
IBM 5151 MDA monitor (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Monitors/IMG_0269.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM 5154 EGA monitor (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Monitors/IMG_0280.JPG) [not for sale]
Hitachi CM1216DS CGA monitor (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Monitors/IMG_0277.JPG)
Two IBM Model F keyboards (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Others/IMG_0296.JPG) [other one SOLD] [other one not for sale]
External 1.44MB 3.5" floppy drive (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Others/IMG_0265.JPG) (GoldenImage JD-324)
Some diskettes (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Floppies/), some original (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Floppies/IMG_0102.JPG), most of them copies (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Floppies/IMG_0110.JPG).
Genius mouse (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Others/IMG_0265.JPG)


I haven't tested any of them yet. I'll do so when i have time. I'm planning to keep IBM manuals and diskettes, 5160 with EGA monitor and maybe one 5150 with MDA monitor (assuming they work). Everything else can go (and must go since i have no place to store all these).

I'm going to take photos from every equipment. It's going to take some time so i won't post them all at once. I'm going to place the photos here (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/).
I'd like you to help me identify all the expansion cards. I'd really like to know what cards were originally used on 5150 and 5160 systems and what of them are added later.

Here (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PCs%20from%20back/IMG_0019.JPG) and here (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PCs%20from%20back/IMG_0013.JPG) are the 5150, 5160 and 5161 from the back and here they are from the front (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PCs%20from%20back/IMG_0291.JPG).

Here are what was in the 5160 (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0023.JPG): [not for sale]

Tandon floppy drive (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0208.JPG) (full height) [not for sale]
64-256KB System Board (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0194.JPG) (256kiB installed, broken)
Video 7 VEGA EGA-display adapter (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0176.JPG). I had hoped IBM EGA so this was a disappointment. [not for sale]
Persyst Time Spectrum 384 multi-I/O card with RTC and RAM (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0176.JPG). I removed the battery since it was in bad condition. [not for sale]
Interface card for 5161 (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0185.JPG) [SOLD]
Intel ABOVE BOARD/PC (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0188.JPG). EMS card with 1MiB installed. [not for sale]
Floppy drive controller (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0181.JPG). On of the capacitors was damaged but i fixed it.
Interface card for external 3.5" floppy drive (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC1_5160/IMG_0181.JPG)


Here are what was in the 5161 expansion unit (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0037.JPG):[ALL SOLD]

Two Seagate ST-412 10MB MFM hard disks (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0069.JPG) [SOLD]
Some IBM terminal emulation card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0050.JPG). [SOLD]
IBM/Xebec MFM controller card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0052.JPG). [SOLD]
IBM parallel card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0057.JPG) [SOLD]
5161 expansion unit receiver card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC2_5161/IMG_0058.JPG) [SOLD]


Here are what was in the 5150 without floppy drives (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC3_5150/IMG_0075.JPG). This seems to have stronger power supply than other 5150s. IBM P/N seems to be 1501438 and that is the same as on 5160 and 5161 power supplies.

IBM MDA card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC3_5150/IMG_0081.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM floppy controller (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC3_5150/IMG_0081.JPG) [not for sale]
64KB-256KB motherboard (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC3_5150/IMG_0089.JPG) (256kiB installed)


Here are what was in another 5150 (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0092.JPG):

Two Tandon 360kB full height floppy drives (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0094.JPG)
IBM MDA card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0102.JPG) (pretty light brown)
IBM memory card with 256kiB (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0103.JPG) [SOLD]
IBM parallel card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0105.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM floppy controller (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0109.JPG)
64KB-256KB motherboard (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC4_5150/IMG_0112.JPG) (256kiB installed)


Here are what was in the third 5150 (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0119.JPG): [not for sale]

Two Tandon 360kB full height floppy drives (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0119.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM MDA card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0128.JPG) (dark brown, broken)
IBM memory card with 256kiB (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0130.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM SDLC Adapter (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0133.JPG) [SOLD]
IBM floppy controller (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0134.JPG) [not for sale]
64KB-256KB motherboard (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC5_5150/IMG_0140.JPG) (256kiB installed) [not for sale]


Here are what was in the last 5150 (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0148.JPG): [SOLD with some customizing]

Two Tandon 360kB full height floppy drives (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0144.JPG) [SOLD]
100% CGA clone card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0156.JPG) (there was also a box without manual (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/Others/IMG_0256.JPG). I already had two CGA cards like that). [not for sale]
Microsoft System Card (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0156.JPG) [not for sale]
IBM memory card with 128kiB (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0159.JPG) [SOLD]
IBM floppy controller (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0163.JPG)
64KB-256KB motherboard (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/PC6_5150/IMG_0167.JPG) (256kiB installed) [SOLD]

aitotat
May 28th, 2010, 08:22 AM
Intel RAM card seems to be ABOVE BOARD/PC (http://th99.dyndns.org/i/I-L/52496.htm). If so, it supports up to 2 MiB and has I/O port selection. Is it some sort of EMS card? Anybody has a driver for it?

Multi I/O card says Persyst Time Spectrum 384 on it but i couldn't find it on total hardware 99. There were some similar cards not nothing exactly like it. I hope somebody has jumper settings for it.

Floppy drive controller is original IBM, right?

The small floppy drive card is for JD series external floppy drives (JD-320, JD-324, JD-560, JD-562). The external floppy drive is JD-324 so it is actually a 1.44 MB drive.

NsMn
May 28th, 2010, 08:32 AM
I would like to say something, but I am speechless of impression... and jealousy.

And yes, this is definitely Spam.

per
May 28th, 2010, 08:42 AM
Intel RAM card seems to be ABOVE BOARD/PC (http://th99.dyndns.org/i/I-L/52496.htm). If so, it supports up to 2 MiB and has I/O port selection. Is it some sort of EMS card? Anybody has a driver for it?It's definiately EMS. This is because the XMS builds on a phenomen that appears when a 286 or newer CPU tries to emulate the 8086/8088.

Floppy drive controller is original IBM, right?
Yep, and after my knowledge of the second of three PCB revisions.

The Floppy disk controller seems to be the only card left from the original factory configuration, but the multicard may have been added rather quicly, maybe even before the unit were sold. All other cards are problably added at later dates (try to identify the datecodes of the PCB's).

What I find weird is that they still used patched Rev-0 boards in early 1985. The Rev-1 and patched Rev-0 boards came in early 1984, and I thought all the patched Rev-0 boards were out by fall 1984...

aitotat
May 28th, 2010, 10:41 AM
Motherboard has 8504 and floppy controller has 8408 printed on it. Are those year/week dates? Do they appear on all IBM motherboards and cards?

QuantumII
May 28th, 2010, 11:05 AM
If I am allowed to ask: Can you make images of the PC TOOLS disks?

per
May 28th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Motherboard has 8504 and floppy controller has 8408 printed on it. Are those year/week dates? Do they appear on all IBM motherboards and cards?

Yes. They appear on some, but not all cards from IBM. Sometimes you only got small metal-letters in the PCB forming the datecode. Anyways, if you find four digits somewhere where two of them says something like 84/85/86/87 and the other two digits is below 52, you may be rather sure that's a date/week code.

mikey99
May 28th, 2010, 01:31 PM
If I am allowed to ask: Can you make images of the PC TOOLS disks?

I'd definitely be interested in getting images of those diskettes too.....

lutiana
May 28th, 2010, 01:39 PM
I'd definitely be interested in getting images of those diskettes too.....

<*insert obligatory comment about the evils of software piracy*>

PM me

lordofthegods
May 28th, 2010, 02:53 PM
I'd be interested in that 5161!! My 5150 came with the interface card in it...would love to use it. Interested in the 5152 as well.

Also interested in PC Tools copies! Although I know no one on this site would ever make copies of software..... ;)

modem7
May 28th, 2010, 06:51 PM
The RTC software for the Persyst Time Spectrum 384 card is at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/rtc.htm

aitotat
May 30th, 2010, 07:50 AM
New photos added. See the first post. I also took new 5160 photos.
About the Video 7 EGA. Is it faster or slower than original IBM EGA? What about compatibility?

per
May 31st, 2010, 02:36 AM
The SDLC adapter is a serial communications adapter. It uses the same RS-232 interface as the Async adapter, but a completely different and more advanced transfer protocol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronous_Data_Link_Control

The unknown card seems to be an IBM 5250 Emulation card, at least according to this listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230269432845

aitotat
May 31st, 2010, 03:08 AM
Is the SDLC adapter compatible with normal async adapter, in other words can it be used as a normal serial port controller?

I'm currently testing the equipment and here are the results so far:
5151 MDA monitor: completely dead, does not appear get any power at all.
Hitachi CGA monitor: works and looks quite good.
5150 systems: All of them work. I tested them with CGA adapter since MDA monitor was dead. MDA adapter cards are all untested.
5160 system: Dead, no beeps, no cursor.
5161 expansion unit: Works but power supply fan is dead. I tested this with one of the 5150. Both hard disks were found and they had some data on them. It was a quick test so the power supply wouldn't overhead because of the dead fan.

Any ideas what to try with the 5160? I tested with CGA adapter card only so it is the motherboard that is dead and not any card. I/O card battery had leaked a bit over one of the memory chips. I switched bank 0 and 1 memory chips but it did not help.

By the way, does anyone have later version of the IBM diagnostics? I have v2.20.

per
May 31st, 2010, 05:50 AM
Is the SDLC adapter compatible with normal async adapter, in other words can it be used as a normal serial port controller?

I'm currently testing the equipment and here are the results so far:
5151 MDA monitor: completely dead, does not appear get any power at all.
Hitachi CGA monitor: works and looks quite good.
5150 systems: All of them work. I tested them with CGA adapter since MDA monitor was dead. MDA adapter cards are all untested.
5160 system: Dead, no beeps, no cursor.
5161 expansion unit: Works but power supply fan is dead. I tested this with one of the 5150. Both hard disks were found and they had some data on them. It was a quick test so the power supply wouldn't overhead because of the dead fan.

Any ideas what to try with the 5160? I tested with CGA adapter card only so it is the motherboard that is dead and not any card. I/O card battery had leaked a bit over one of the memory chips. I switched bank 0 and 1 memory chips but it did not help.

By the way, does anyone have later version of the IBM diagnostics? I have v2.20.

Nope, the SDLC uses it's completely own protocol. A normal Async adapter won't be able to make any sense at all from the data sent by the SDLC. The SDLC isn't even asynchronous, in fact.

About the 5160, did you remember to change the motherboard switches when you swaped the EGA card with the CGA one? SW1 position 5/6 should be either On/Off or Off/On when a ~100% hardware-compatible CGA card is being used. For a card with it's own BIOS extension (EGA/VGA) or no monitor at all (if no BIOS extension present) it should be On/On, and for MDA it should be Off/Off.

mikey99
May 31st, 2010, 07:56 AM
....... I/O card battery had leaked a bit over one of the memory chips.

I have a 5150 with the original 16-64 KB motherboard that also had one of those I/O cards with a battery
that leaked all over the motherboard. Fortunately I was able to clean it up and the board still works.
Sometimes the battery electrolyte damages lands on the board. Possibly it can be repaired if you can
find the damaged land.

Raven
May 31st, 2010, 09:02 AM
I dunno how I missed this thread a day or two ago but I have been searching for an IBM 5161 for a while now and am quite interested in that.

aitotat
May 31st, 2010, 10:29 AM
Switches were correct on the 5160 so that is not the problem.

The 5151 MDA monitor works after all! It was the dark brown MDA adapter that was broken. Unfortunately now the 5154 EGA monitor gives me trouble. It displays sharp picture but the picture is not stable. The picture jumps a bit from time to time. I hope it can be fixed since the 5154 and 5160 were the ones i really wanted to work.

mikey99
May 31st, 2010, 11:29 AM
Switches were correct on the 5160 so that is not the problem.

The 5151 MDA monitor works after all! It was the dark brown MDA adapter that was broken. Unfortunately now the 5154 EGA monitor gives me trouble. It displays sharp picture but the picture is not stable. The picture jumps a bit from time to time. I hope it can be fixed since the 5154 and 5160 were the ones i really wanted to work.

Its possible you might have a bad/marginal capacitor in the 5154 power supply causing the jumping. Or maybe a loose solder
connection, in which case gently tapping on the case might exhibit the problem. Please provide more details about the jumping
symptom you see, is it a fluctuation in brightness ? Does the vertical/horizontal size increase/decrease or does the picture
move around on the screen ? And are you sure its not the EGA card or the connection from the monitor to the card ?

Raven
May 31st, 2010, 02:09 PM
If you have the capacity to easily do so, perhaps taking a video of the symptoms is in order?

aitotat
June 1st, 2010, 02:21 AM
or does the picture move around on the screen?
Yes it does. Sometimes it is stable for couple of seconds at most (sometimes less, sometimes it is not stable at all) but then it moves a bit to any direction and resumes right back.


And are you sure its not the EGA card or the connection from the monitor to the card?
I only tried it with the Video 7 EGA card. That is the only EGA card i have but i have CGA cards and one Tridend VGA card with 9-pin connector. I could try those when i have time.

aitotat
June 1st, 2010, 04:07 AM
First post has been updated with more photos. Some items are now marked as sold.

aitotat
June 1st, 2010, 09:32 AM
I tested the EGA monitor with CGA card. It worked fine and looked great. This means that the EGA card is faulty or the monitor has problems only in 350 scanline mode. I'll test the monitor with Trident VGA Enhancer (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/VGA_VGA_Enhancer_V8_ISA8.JPG) when i have time.

Total Hardware 99 (http://th99.dyndns.org/v/U-Z/50080.htm) shows only Analog/TTL selection. Shouldn't there be switch settings for MDA/CGA/EGA and VGA? I don't want to risk damaging the monitor with wrong type.

Raven
June 1st, 2010, 02:12 PM
There are only selections for MONO, CGA, and NONE. What you want is to set it to NONE, because EGA/VGA (correct me if I'm wrong, I know I'm right with VGA) have their own BIOS to handle the stuff while CGA and MONO are dumb hardware that the system BIOS has the routines to control.

per
June 1st, 2010, 02:40 PM
There are only selections for MONO, CGA, and NONE. What you want is to set it to NONE, because EGA/VGA (correct me if I'm wrong, I know I'm right with VGA) have their own BIOS to handle the stuff while CGA and MONO are dumb hardware that the system BIOS has the routines to control.

I think the switches on the video board are the ones in question, not the ones on the motherboard.

Anyways, I have a different version of the TVGA 8800 card (it's 16-bit), but I can't guarantee that the switches represent the same, allthough they problably does. The settings for my card can be seen here: http://th99.dyndns.org/v/U-Z/50084.htm

aitotat
June 6th, 2010, 06:10 AM
I wasn't able to set the Trident switches so that 5154 would display any picture. I tried the EGA and CGA switch settings and the monitor was out of sync based on what little appeared on the screen.

I did try the 5154 again with CGA adapter and i also tried it on Tandy 1000 SX. It seems the 5154 does have some sort of fault. I did see the problems again but this time they were nowhere near as bad as with the EGA adapter i first tried. Here (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/5154_KQ3.mov) and here (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/ttilli/Components/Images/IBM/5154_NC.mov) are two videos about the problems (hope you have compatible codecs).

There are two other things i noticed. Contrast knob seems to be broken (it does nothing) and there seemed to be too much brightness on Tandy so the image appeared too blurry.

I'd like to get the 5154 working since it produces very sharp picture, significantly better than on the Commodore 1084S-P1 that i'm currently using.

aitotat
June 6th, 2010, 09:43 AM
I'd like to get the Trident to output CGA or EGA signal even though i now know that the 5154 is faulty. The Trident has the standard 25.175 and 28.321 MHz crystals used by VGA. It also has a third crystal, 40 MHz, that is no doubt used by Trident SVGA implementations.

The third crystal is socketed while the standard VGA crystals are soldered. Could it be that the socketed crystal must be replaced in order to use MDA, CGA or EGA output?

Raven
June 6th, 2010, 10:57 AM
I have a Trident 8800CS and documented the switch settings somewhere in a post on this forum, if the above linked ones don't work (I was unable to find accurate ones for my specific card online).

My card supports MDA, CGA, EGA, VGA/SVGA all without changing crystal, but that sounds like a valid theory.

per
June 6th, 2010, 12:04 PM
My Trident 8800CS has four crystalls: 25.175MHz, 28.322MHz, 16.257MHz and 44.9MHz.

I know for sure that my card does all of the standard IBM modes (MDA/CGA/EGA/VGA).

mikey99
June 6th, 2010, 06:49 PM
There are two other things i noticed. Contrast knob seems to be broken (it does nothing) ......

On the 5154 you need to pull the contrast knob out (click) to make adjustments.
Also the contrast doesnt always seem to work so I think its specific to the video mode you're running.
Try it with the color tests in the diagnostics diskette.

mikey99
June 6th, 2010, 07:09 PM
I checked out the video's you made of the problem but its hard to say what the issue
could be. I see two problems. the glitches or jumping in the picture, and the
stripe moving slowly through the picture.

Start with the easy stuff first.
Have you checked the connection pins on the cable running from the
monitor to the card ? If you wiggle the cable or connector where it attaches to the card
while an image is displayed does it produce any defects in the picture ?
Sometimes the pins get corroded and dont make a good connection. You
can even use some electrical contact cleaner , spray a little on the pins,
insert/remove the connector a few times to clean the pins. Let it sit
for 30 minutes or so the allow the cleaner to evaporate before powering back on.

Also, sometimes the brightness or contrast controls get dirty over time and turning
them will make the picture jump. Try rotating these controls back and forth a few times
to see if it improves the picture.

The horizontal stripe moving through the picture is strange, I've never seen
this symptom before.

I have a few 5154's :-) Most of the problems in these monitors is usually caused
by leaky capacitors in the power supply. I've replaced all capacitors in two of my
5154's power supplies and they work perfectly. The problem is that they used
capacitors rated at 85 degrees C, and these monitors run really hot.
I used capacitors rated at 105 C when I replaced so they should hold up better.

aitotat
June 6th, 2010, 09:32 PM
The horizontal stripe moving through the picture is strange, I've never seen
this symptom before.

That is just something related to recording the video (mismatching refresh rates or such). It does not appear on the monitor, only on the video. I should have mentioned it.
I'll try to clean the connector and rotate the controls. I'll try to replace the capacitors if nothing else helps. How many capacitors are there?

aitotat
June 7th, 2010, 05:22 AM
My Trident 8800CS has four crystalls: 25.175MHz, 28.322MHz, 16.257MHz and 44.9MHz.

16.257 MHz crystal can be found from MDA and EGA adapters and your Trident seems to have it too. Are all the crystals soldered?
Maybe i should remove crystal from the broken MDA adapter and try it with my Trident.