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antiquekid3
June 13th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Hey guys,

Just got this off eBay tonight. I can't wait to get it! It'll be my first IBM PC! I believe this is the 5160, judging by the 8 ISA slots.

Here are some pictures:

3709
http://www.kc9dga.com/ebaynewlg0531/IMG_4022.jpg

3708
http://www.kc9dga.com/ebaynewlg0531/IMG_4023.jpg

Can anyone tell me anything about what I just bought? No monitor or keyboard, unfortunately... :-(

Kyle

gerrydoire
June 13th, 2010, 07:29 PM
If you can get a 8-bit VGA Card you can use a standard VGA Monitor XT keyboards are not hard to find.

Chuckster_in_Jax
June 13th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Great computer. I can't believe how clean and shiny the insides are.

XT-keyboards are easily found on eBay. Maybe one of our members is looking to get rid of one? You will have to determine what type of video card it has when you get it. Most likely it will require a 9-pin ttl monitor. Those come available often enough on eBay. Or, you may want to set it up so you can use a conventional 15-pin VGA monitor. Those adapters aren't too difficult to find. There was a recent thread discussing 16-bit VGA cards that will also work in an 8-bit ISA slot like the IBM 5160 uses. You just have to know which ones are compatible.

Chuck(G)
June 13th, 2010, 07:59 PM
It may be cheapest to just get the XT-AT keyboard converter if you have a spare PS/2-style keyboard kicking around. Of course, all of the keys on the newer keyboard are in the "wrong" place... :)

antiquekid3
June 13th, 2010, 08:23 PM
But I want a clicky keyboard so bad!! Haha! I might see if I can find an XT-AT converter...I think my neighbor might just have one!

I can use the CGA card with a composite monitor, like my Commodore 1702, right?

Can I run DOS 6.22 on the XT?

Kyle

Chuck(G)
June 13th, 2010, 08:45 PM
But I want a clicky keyboard so bad!! Haha! I might see if I can find an XT-AT converter...I think my neighbor might just have one!

What, Model M keyboards aren't "clicky"? Coulda fooled me! :)

gerrydoire
June 13th, 2010, 08:50 PM
You can run dos 6.22 :>

modem7
June 13th, 2010, 10:19 PM
I might see if I can find an XT-AT converter...I think my neighbor might just have one!
Your neighbour! If you're referring to something like the adapter in the center of the picture below, then it won't work. That adapter only allows for the different type of connectors. There is an electrical difference between keyboards for the PC and XT and keyboards for the AT and PS/2.

So you either need to:
1. locate a keyboard that is specifically for the PC or XT, or
2. use an AT or PS/2 keyboard with an adapter that accounts for the electrical difference.

The adapter that Chuck was referring to is one that accounts for the electrical difference.
Example: http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/AT2XT_keyboard_converter

http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/misc/keyboard_adaptor.jpg

strollin
June 14th, 2010, 06:01 AM
That looks like the system I started this (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?20869-Erroneous-EBay-auctions) thread about. It looks to be a 5160 motherboard in a non-IBM chassis with an IBM PC top cover. It looks pretty clean, let us know more about it once you get it.

Chuckster_in_Jax
June 14th, 2010, 06:41 AM
There are 2 ports on the back of the computer located above the keyboard socket. They are internally connected to a board via ribbon cable that has a Seagate BIOS chip on it. What the heck would that be?

Chuck(G)
June 14th, 2010, 08:28 AM
Take a better look--the two ribbon cables sneak under the hard disk controller (with the Seagate BIOS on it) and connect to the multifunction/RAM board behind it.

My guess is two serial ports.

Chuckster_in_Jax
June 14th, 2010, 08:36 AM
Take a better look--the two ribbon cables sneak under the hard disk controller (with the Seagate BIOS on it) and connect to the multifunction/RAM board behind it.

My guess is two serial ports.

OK I was looking at the second picture and didn't see that.

per
June 14th, 2010, 08:40 AM
2. use an AT or PS/2 keyboard with an adapter that accounts for the electrical difference.

I have to say that there is no differences in the electrical sinals when it comes to AT versus XT keyboards. The thing that makes AT keyboards and XT keyboards incompatible with each other is actually only the transfer protocoll, and some of the scancodes.

modem7
June 15th, 2010, 04:53 AM
I have to say that there is no differences in the electrical sinals when it comes to AT versus XT keyboards. The thing that makes AT keyboards and XT keyboards incompatible with each other is actually only the transfer protocoll, and some of the scancodes.
In classing what is physical and what is electrical in an interface, isn't protocol in the electrical class?

Chuck(G)
June 15th, 2010, 07:08 AM
In classing what is physical and what is electrical in an interface, isn't protocol in the electrical class?

I'd put it in the "ethereal" class myself. :)

per
June 15th, 2010, 08:48 AM
In classing what is physical and what is electrical in an interface, isn't protocol in the electrical class?

I see your point. The thing is that when I hear "eletrical difference", I start to think that it uses a different voltage or something like that.

antiquekid3
June 15th, 2010, 12:01 PM
Can I use this in my computer?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3-Dual-VGA-EGA-Video-Card-8-Bit-ISA-/150454143205?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2307c408e5#ht_3896wt_1139
Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?

And I assume, since this says "PS/2," that it will NOT work with my XT?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLICKY-KEYBOARD-MODEL-M-1391401-w-PS2-/360270804055?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item53e1d03457#ht_3788wt_1139

Thanks guys!

Kyle

per
June 15th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Can I use this in my computer?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3-Dual-VGA-EGA-Video-Card-8-Bit-ISA-/150454143205?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2307c408e5#ht_3896wt_1139
Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?

And I assume, since this says "PS/2," that it will NOT work with my XT?
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-IBM-CLICKY-KEYBOARD-MODEL-M-1391401-w-PS2-/360270804055?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item53e1d03457#ht_3788wt_1139

Thanks guys!

Kyle

EGA/VGA cards usually has their drivers stored as a BIOS extension in a ROM chip located on the card itself. Note that this is only a BIOS-level driver, so programs using their own low-level driver-system will need a custom driver to take full usage of that spesific card. Generic EGA/VGA drivers should however work in that case, but the card will only do the standard EGA/VGA functions then.

Regarding the keyboard, some Model M keyboards can autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT, and then choose the correct protocoll. There was a list on the Model M article on Wikipedia some time ago stating what Model M keyboards did and didn't do this, but I don't know if it has been removed by now.

Agent Orange
June 15th, 2010, 01:10 PM
That PS/2 KB will work. You may need PS/2 adapter from your favorite computer store or get it online. Just about all of the lastest mobo's support standard PS/2 mouse and keyboard connectors. Some, however, are going strictly USB to save a penny or two.

antiquekid3
June 15th, 2010, 05:25 PM
How can I be certain that this Model M (1391401) will work with an XT? The Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is just a PS/2 and AT keyboard. Just confirming...

Kyle

Agent Orange
June 15th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Check the Vintage Forum for the AT/XT keyboard converter project. If you can't find it, send a PM to HARGLE.

mikey99
June 15th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Can I use this in my computer?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Zenith-150-307-3-Dual-VGA-EGA-Video-Card-8-Bit-ISA-/150454143205?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item2307c408e5#ht_3896wt_1139
Would I need any drivers or such to use it, too?


I have one of those Heath Zenith EGA/VGA cards and even though I've never actually tried it.....
I'm pretty sure it is only capable of EGA graphics when attached to a VGA monitor.
That card is probably worth about $10 max.
There were some discussions about this card in the forum awhile back.

MikeS
June 15th, 2010, 07:31 PM
How can I be certain that this Model M (1391401) will work with an XT? The Wikipedia article seems to indicate it is just a PS/2 and AT keyboard. Just confirming...

KyleNot sure what Agent Orange was thinking of, but that PS/2 keyboard will almost certainly NOT work with your XT; might be worth buying anyway though to use with your more modern PC if it doesn't go much higher .

Raven
June 15th, 2010, 07:37 PM
There are Model Ms that were intended for the XT-286 that are XT and AT autosensing, but they're rare (I have one! :D) and use an AT (DIN, not MINI-DIN) rather than PS/2 connector.

I don't typically offer to sell keyboards, as I'm a big keyboard fan/collector, but I have a Keytronics XT keyboard that's damn near identical to the keyboard for the 5150/5160, an obvious clone of it... I can pop it onto my 5160 and give it a test drive and then will sell it to you if you make a persuasive enough offer provided it's fully functional.

Oh, and congratulations - the 5160 is a nice machine. :)

per
June 16th, 2010, 10:27 AM
There are Model Ms that were intended for the XT-286 that are XT and AT autosensing, but they're rare (I have one! :D) and use an AT (DIN, not MINI-DIN) rather than PS/2 connector.

I don't typically offer to sell keyboards, as I'm a big keyboard fan/collector, but I have a Keytronics XT keyboard that's damn near identical to the keyboard for the 5150/5160, an obvious clone of it... I can pop it onto my 5160 and give it a test drive and then will sell it to you if you make a persuasive enough offer provided it's fully functional.

Oh, and congratulations - the 5160 is a nice machine. :)

I got a Model M from a PS/2 model 70 made in 1991, with a deattachable ps/2 connector which does autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT class machine. It's obivous that everybody have different oppinions on this topic, so we should try to do some research on what submodels of Model Ms that does what. Our Wiki is a perfect place for a table where the results are placed.

strollin
June 16th, 2010, 10:28 AM
Many (most?) 16-bit VGA cards will work in an 8-bit slot. I noticed that the asking price for 8-bit VGA cards has gone way up on EBay, many were asking $150+!!! The 16-bit cards are much more reasonable, around $25 or so.

XT type keyboards are getting harder to find. The AT/XT converter would probably be a good solution for you.

The VGA card will allow you to use a modern monitor and the AT/XT Converter would let you use a modern keyboard. Might make a purist cringe but will get you up and running with your 5160.

MikeS
June 16th, 2010, 11:04 AM
I got a Model M from a PS/2 model 70 made in 1991, with a deattachable ps/2 connector which does autodetect if it's being used in an XT or AT class machine. It's obivous that everybody have different oppinions on this topic, so we should try to do some research on what submodels of Model Ms that does what. Our Wiki is a perfect place for a table where the results are placed.Well, a good start would be if you and Raven would share with us the model numbers of your XT/AT compatible model M's, whether they have LEDs, whether *all* keys work correctly on a PC/XT, etc....

I was pretty sure that my -1401 does not work on a PC/XT, but it also dates from '91 so maybe my memory is fooling me (again ;-) ); my 4 years older -0131 might, but I haven't tried it (and it's not the model we're talking about anyway).

So, what are the model numbers of those auto-sensing babies of yours?

per
June 16th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Well, a good start would be if you and Raven would share with us the model numbers of your XT/AT compatible model M's, whether they have LEDs, whether *all* keys work correctly on a PC/XT, etc....

I was pretty sure that my -1401 does not work on a PC/XT, but it also dates from '91 so maybe my memory is fooling me (again ;-) ); my 4 years older -0131 might, but I haven't tried it (and it's not the model we're talking about anyway).

So, what are the model numbers of those auto-sensing babies of yours?

The keyboard has LEDs, and Norwegian/Danish key-layout. It also has this deattachable cable, which curently has a PS/2 connector.

The big numbers on the label is "1391409". Under it, it says "1387628 EC 528771" to the rigth for both therse number it also says "55-0321520F", "EC 528771" and "1991-11-11". even more rigth; "0123 2" is written vertically. Under all of this is a barcode and some manufacturing info.

When used in an XT, the LEDS quickly flashes on startup before turning off. After this, they remains off all the time. All regular keys works just like on an normal XT/PC-class keyboard. F11 don't do anything, but for some reason; F12 returns the scancode of "FE" (or something like that). It's importaint to not move the deattachable cable because any "noise" on the keyboard signal lines will kick the keyboard into AT-mode.

MikeS
June 16th, 2010, 02:37 PM
...The big numbers on the label is "1391409". Under it, it says "1387628 EC 528771" to the rigth for both therse number it also says "55-0321520F", "EC 528771" and "1991-11-11". even more rigth; "0123 2" is written vertically. Under all of this is a barcode and some manufacturing info...Hmm, almost suggests that maybe it's a Danish version of a -1401; maybe the eBay one is dual-mode after all. Anybody got a 1391401 to test and make sure (other than me who can't get at a PC/XT at the moment)?

Agent Orange
June 16th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Check this thread out.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?15907-AT-to-XT-Keyboard-Converter/page19

per
June 16th, 2010, 11:10 PM
Hmm, almost suggests that maybe it's a Danish version of a -1401; maybe the eBay one is dual-mode after all.

I'd guess so to. The table on Wikipedia explains it as a "Norwegian 102-key", and it was manufactured from 1989 to sometime around 1992/93.

I opened it once, and IIRC; 1387628 reffers to the internals (which should be equal to the internals of a 1391401 if our hypothesis is true).

hargle
June 17th, 2010, 05:51 AM
Many (most?) 16-bit VGA cards will work in an 8-bit slot. I noticed that the asking price for 8-bit VGA cards has gone way up on EBay, many were asking $150+!!! The 16-bit cards are much more reasonable, around $25 or so.
We've started a list of them here:
http://www.wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/8bit_Friendly_ISA_VGA_cards

Not all of them work, hence the importance of the list to know what you're getting into. true IBM machines seemed to be even more picky about this. IIRC, I have a card in my zenith 8088 that works great, but when I put it in my XT it just beeps at me. (and yes I played with the dip switches) That makes me think that I should convert that wiki into more of a table with columns for "works on an XT, PC, clone"...

Cimonvg
June 17th, 2010, 02:55 PM
hello
back to the keyboards..
I did find a link (have not investigated further)
http://www.datacal.com/p-1253-xt-keyboard-cherry-g81-1854.aspx

..but kind of funny - you can buy a NEW keyboard some 25 years after the original were made :o)
/cimonvg

Chuck(G)
June 17th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Nope, XT-interface keyboards are still used on a variety of industrial equipment, such as scales. Their advantage is that they're very simple to interface, unlike AT or PS/2 keyboards.

FWIW, Cherry is a good brand. Not "clicky" but solidly constructed. I've got some NCR-branded Cherry XT and AT keyboards. And that keyboard is actually manually switchable between XT and AT mode.

Anonymous Coward
June 17th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Err, this "5160" is actually a clone is it not? In that case, it won't matter much to have a matching IBM keyboard.

per
June 18th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Err, this "5160" is actually a clone is it not? In that case, it won't matter much to have a matching IBM keyboard.

We have already discussed that in another thread, but it turns out that the top of the chassis is from an IBM 5150, the base of the chassis is from a clone, and the motherboard is from an actual IBM 5160 (rev.1).

Since the motherboard decides what kind of keyboard to use, an XT-compatible keyboard must be used.

Raven
June 18th, 2010, 10:28 AM
My special XT/AT compatible Model M that I think was shipped out with an XT-286 at some point is...

Part No. 1390120
S/N No. 2158709
Date 27OCT86
Plt No F2
Model M

Every key I've attempted to use works and I've used this system on my 5160 and my modern Core 2 Duo (w/ AT->PS/2 Adapter, no electrical components, just wiring adapter) so it definitely works in both ways just fine - autosensing.

It has a silver IBM square metal logo in the top right, and no LEDs.

Someone left this poor keyboard out in the rain behind a Goodwill (it's not even legal to leave things there after hours..). I was driving by and saw it, and immediately stopped the car to investigate. :O

Fortunately these things are quite resilient and the rain didn't damage it at all.

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 02:25 PM
Okay, the computer arrived today! And it shows signs of life! I connected the CGA to my Commodore monitor using the composite video jack. It turns on, and then starts checking all 640KB of RAM. After that, it tells me there is an ST-251 HDD (more specifically, an ST-251-1). But then it tries to boot, and fails...

Where should I go from here? I don't have any 5.25" boot disks, only DOS 6.22 on (3) 3.5" diskettes.

Any suggestions?

Kyle

Chuck(G)
June 19th, 2010, 02:46 PM
If you can find an edge-to-header type of 3.5" drive adapter and the adapter for the power leads, you can hook up a 3.5" floppy in place of the 5.25" and create a 3.5" DS2D (720K) floppy and boot from that.

If it's a real 5160, it should go to BASIC if boot fails.

modem7
June 19th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Does the access light of the hard drive come on at all?

Do hear hear/feel the platters in the drive turning?

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 03:14 PM
I still have to get me a keyboard. I think Raven might be able to get me hooked with an XT keyboard soon. However, for the time being, I'd love to be able to write a program for my Arduino to emulate an XT keyboard.

I do have a cable that will connect my 3.5" drive to the floppy, but I don't have a power lead adapter. I presume DigiKey has the parts to make my own. If they do, I'll tag the parts onto my next order.

When it gives me the disk error, it wants me to press F1 to continue. Would it normally go to BASIC right after that?

Kyle

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 03:15 PM
Does the access light of the hard drive come on at all?

Do hear hear/feel the platters in the drive turning?

Access light has not lit up for me yet. However, I can feel and hear the platters a little bit. But with the noisy fan from the PSU, it's pretty hard to hear!

Kyle

modem7
June 19th, 2010, 03:30 PM
Access light has not lit up for me yet. However, I can feel and hear the platters a little bit. But with the noisy fan from the PSU, it's pretty hard to hear!
We ask because 'stiction' is a common problem in old drives. Do a search of these forums for 'stiction'. It would be good to eliminate that as a cause early up. Your "I can feel and hear the platters a little bit" doesn't sound like you're convinced. You could try removing the drive from the chassis and holding it in your hands. If the platters are spinning, the drive will resist being moved out-of-plane (just the the spinning wheels on a bicycle).

According to http://www.redhill.net.au/d/d-a.html, "The ST-251 made a unique hollow knocking noise on start-up, once heard never forgotten, and by far the most distinctive sound of any drive yet made." Are you hearing that?

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 03:57 PM
Okay, I can say with absolute certainty that the ST-251 is spinning. But it still won't boot up. It does make a knocking sound at startup. The light still won't come on.

Kyle

Chuckster_in_Jax
June 19th, 2010, 05:41 PM
You may have to try a low-level format of the drive. If the drive is bad, I wouldn't recommend replacing it with another MFM drive. The XT-IDE project was in response to the problem of failing MFM drives. Consider one of those boards if you determine the drive can't be salvaged.

Chuck

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 05:51 PM
How do I low level format a drive? I presume I will need to boot into DOS to do this?

I'm going to try to connect my 3.5" drive tonight. Will the floppy controller work with it just fine?

Thanks for the tips!

Kyle

linuxlove
June 19th, 2010, 05:54 PM
To low-level format a drive, you'll need:

* MS-DOS bootdisk with DEBUG
* Knowledge of where the low-level formatter is on the hard drive's controller so you can call it using DEBUG.

Post your hard drive controller model, someone should be able to help.

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Okay, I'm about to try and make a boot disk. I found some online instructions...hopefully they are right!

I have a Seagate hard drive controller. It has a Seagate ST-10 BIOS in it, version 005 2.4. Any more info needed?

Kyle

modem7
June 19th, 2010, 06:40 PM
Seagate ST-10 low-level format process:

1. Boot from boot diskette.
2. Run DEBUG
3. Enter G=C800:5
4. Enter 1
5. Enter Y
6. Enter 3 (selects ST251)
7. Enter Y
8. Enter 3
9. Enter N (split question)
10. Enter N
11. Enter Y
12. Enter Y
13. Enter F

After that, you FDISK and FORMAT per usual.

modem7
June 19th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Having just experimented with my ST-10 (with BIOS version 2.4), I'm expecting that what you presently see on screen is:
ST10 v2.4
Hard Disk 1: ST-251-1

I used an ST-225 instead of an ST-251, but the expectation is similar.

The "ST-251-1" gets retrieved by the ST-10 from a track on the drive that it reserved for itself.
So that means that:
1. The ST-10 is communicating with the ST-251 okay.
2. The ST-251 has been low-level formatted by the ST-10.

Good though to go through the low-level process (followed by FDISK and FORMAT) again just to ensure that it all has been done properly.

antiquekid3
June 19th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the low level info, modem! I'm about to see about writing an Arduino program to emulate a keyboard so I can get some work done tonight.

Instead of printing "ST-251-1", it just prints "ST-251." But I assume that is just fine.

Kyle

modem7
June 19th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Per what Chuck wrote, if you connect a 1.44M drive to the combination of an IBM 5160 motherboard (even the first release) with original floppy controller, that combination will boot/read a 720K diskette.

To create a 720K sized boot diskette (with DEBUG/FDISK/FORMAT on it) using a 1.44M diskette with tape over the density hole, you can use the STEP 2 part of the process at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/5170_gsetup.htm


Instead of printing "ST-251-1", it just prints "ST-251." But I assume that is just fine.
Yes. I used "ST-251-1" because of your earlier, "After that, it tells me there is an ST-251 HDD (more specifically, an ST-251-1)."

per
June 20th, 2010, 03:09 AM
Per what Chuck wrote, if you connect a 1.44M drive to the combination of an IBM 5160 motherboard (even the first release) with original floppy controller, that combination will boot/read a 720K diskette.

Well, I have personally done some investigation at this, and what I found was that:

You can use a 3.5" DD (720KB) disk drive with the original IBM DD FDC and XT motherboard (first BIOS)
You can use a 3.5" HD (1440KB) disk drive with a one-chip* HD FDC and original IBM XT motherboard (first BIOS)
You can not use a 3.5" HD (1440KB) disk drive with the original IBM DD FDC

In the two first cases, DOS will see and use all 720KB of the disks, but several other programs will see the disks as only 360KB. I don't find this a problem since I usually use DOS when working with files.

* I haven't tested with anything else than a one-chip HD FDC (GoldStar GM82C765B). I believe all standarized HD FDCs will work as well.

modem7
June 20th, 2010, 04:58 AM
You can not use a 3.5" HD (1440KB) disk drive with the original IBM DD FDC
When you use the word, "use", I'm sure that you mean at least the ability to read and write.

My statement stands. If you connect a 1.44M drive to the combination of an IBM 5160 motherboard (even the first release/BIOS) with original IBM DD floppy controller, that combination will boot/read a 720K diskette. Note that I did not use the word, "write". For what we're doing here, which is to boot from a pseudo 720K diskette then execute programs on that diskette such DEBUG/FDISK/FORMAT against the C: drive, no writes to the diskette are required.

per
June 20th, 2010, 01:18 PM
When you use the word, "use", I'm sure that you mean at least the ability to read and write.

My statement stands. If you connect a 1.44M drive to the combination of an IBM 5160 motherboard (even the first release/BIOS) with original IBM DD floppy controller, that combination will boot/read a 720K diskette. Note that I did not use the word, "write". For what we're doing here, which is to boot from a pseudo 720K diskette then execute programs on that diskette such DEBUG/FDISK/FORMAT against the C: drive, no writes to the diskette are required.

As of I remember, the HD drive didn't even read on the IBM controller.

Anyways, it may be drive independent. More testing will need to be done in order to say anything for sure.

Chuck(G)
June 20th, 2010, 01:29 PM
My statement stands. If you connect a 1.44M drive to the combination of an IBM 5160 motherboard (even the first release/BIOS) with original IBM DD floppy controller, that combination will boot/read a 720K diskette. Note that I did not use the word, "write". For what we're doing here, which is to boot from a pseudo 720K diskette then execute programs on that diskette such DEBUG/FDISK/FORMAT against the C: drive, no writes to the diskette are required.

And I'll stand with you. I've booted up an original 64K 5150 (with the early BIOS) using a 1.44MB 3.5" and just booted up an XT clone the same way. It works.

antiquekid3
June 20th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Hey guys,

Here's an update: I tried making a 720K boot disk, and my floppy drive wouldn't format it to 720K. Nor would it take a floppy that had the hole covered. :-(

Also, I suppose it would help if I told ya'll just what this computer IS doing. After checking RAM, here's what the monitor reads:
"
301
640 KB OK

ST10 v2.4
Hard Disc 1: ST251

ERROR. (RESUME = "F1" KEY)
_
"

The 301 error means the keyboard didn't respond. No duh, I don't have a keyboard connected (and I haven't figured out my Arduino keyboard emulator just yet...drats!). Also, several times upon startup, the computer gave a "601" right before the ERROR line. That means something is messed up with the floppy drive. However, it doesn't always do that. I pulled out the cards and put them back in, and it seems to be working better now.

Any suggestions?

Kyle

antiquekid3
June 20th, 2010, 10:13 PM
Okay, I just tried connecting some random new Dell PS/2 keyboard. It does something DIFFERENT!! Yay!

Firstly, no 301 error. Secondly, it now goes to this screen:
"
C>DATE
Current date is Tue 01-01-1980
Enter new date (mm-dd-yy): _
"

I guess I went back in time...! :-)

This must mean my system works, but it just needs a keyboard! Unfortunately, the keyboard I'm using won't type. But at least it tricks it into thinking a real keyboard is connected!

Kyle

modem7
June 21st, 2010, 12:44 AM
This must mean my system works, but it just needs a keyboard!
Yes. That's good news. There might be some nice old software on the hard drive.


Here's an update: I tried making a 720K boot disk, and my floppy drive wouldn't format it to 720K
Nor would it take a floppy that had the hole covered.

Now that you know that an XT keyboard will get your machine going (very high probability), you no longer have a need for a 720K sized boot diskette, because once your machine is booting from C:, you'll be able to create a 5.25" boot diskette.

If you want to pursue the creation of a 720K boot disk, you'll need to inform us of the technique/sequence you used, and the error messages (or symptoms).


That means something is messed up with the floppy drive. However, it doesn't always do that. I pulled out the cards and put them back in, and it seems to be working better now.
Note that something that's common with 5.25" drives is that the lubrication on the slide/carriage rails has deteriorated.