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View Full Version : What to do with a defect ST-412 drive



Jorg
October 1st, 2005, 09:31 AM
Its spinning allright.. but track 0 bad (and some others...)

Can't get me to throw it away though.. any ideas?

Micom 2000
October 2nd, 2005, 11:32 AM
Its spinning allright.. but track 0 bad (and some others...)

Can't get me to throw it away though.. any ideas?

You could get an old copy of Disk Manager or Spin-rite and just mark them as defective. Not sure if you would lose all the data on the drive tho.

Lawrence

Jorg
October 2nd, 2005, 12:12 PM
Its spinning allright.. but track 0 bad (and some others...)

Can't get me to throw it away though.. any ideas?

You could get an old copy of Disk Manager or Spin-rite and just mark them as defective. Not sure if you would lose all the data on the drive tho.

Lawrence

Wasn't able to find Spin-rite (I had it somewhere)- but, as far as I thought- if track 0 is bad, the story is over. Or am I wrong?

Terry Yager
October 2nd, 2005, 12:32 PM
Its spinning allright.. but track 0 bad (and some others...)

Can't get me to throw it away though.. any ideas?

You could get an old copy of Disk Manager or Spin-rite and just mark them as defective. Not sure if you would lose all the data on the drive tho.

Lawrence

Wasn't able to find Spin-rite (I had it somewhere)- but, as far as I thought- if track 0 is bad, the story is over. Or am I wrong?

I have a couple of older copies of SpinRite, but I think you're correct, if track 0 is bad, even SpinRite won't help it.

--T

carlsson
October 2nd, 2005, 01:38 PM
If nothing else, you can keep it in case you some day need a device only to put load on the power supply (a'la modern ATX equipment). Or maybe a doorstop? It appears to physically be large enough that if you gut out the interior, you may be able to fit a tiny form factor PC inside the drive on its own.. :wink:


By today's standards, this interface and the drives that use it are microscopic in capacity (although enormous in physical size), slow, cumbersome, error-prone and completely obsolete. You will never see ST-506/ST-412 used in a new system, and in fact, it's hard to find them in any systems still being used ...
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/obsoST506-c.html

Jorg
October 3rd, 2005, 08:53 AM
Just for you all ;)


http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/small/harddisk/st-412_small.jpg

machine
October 5th, 2005, 07:32 AM
If track 0 is bad then the drive is no longer usable. But, you might be able to move the track 0 position. You can alter the position of the stop, then reformat with primary format software so that you get a whole new formatted disk. Effectively you have moved track 0 a millimeter or so. You will lose all data of course.

Your other method is look for another drive and get it's disk. Seagate made zillions of those drives, there's bound to be some loose ones around somewhere.

The ST412 finds tracks by stepping the head, so reformatting all the tracks shouldn't be a problem.

The other thing is that opening a drive's cover while not in a clean room is not as bad for the drive as we are told. If you are very clean with everything it shouldn't be a problem. I have opened up many disks and repaired them outside of a clean room.

I even horrified a fellow engineer one time when I opened up a disk and then ran formatting software on it. I showed him that no errors resulted.

Something else you should look for is dust accumulation under the disk motor, it really effects the drive's speed and any format will go bad if the speed is incorrect.

elbowgeek
October 16th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Slightly off topic here, but that very hard drive was listed on our official price sheet for IBM PC replacement parts, as late as 1993. The price: $1,000. I kid you not. And there it sat, gathering dust on the shelf. Won't be there today though, as the dealership closed up years ago, but I bet it was still there long after I left LOL.

Cheers

Jorg
October 17th, 2005, 08:24 AM
Slightly off topic here, but that very hard drive was listed on our official price sheet for IBM PC replacement parts, as late as 1993. The price: $1,000. I kid you not. And there it sat, gathering dust on the shelf. Won't be there today though, as the dealership closed up years ago, but I bet it was still there long after I left LOL.

Cheers

:cry:

Jorg
October 17th, 2005, 08:32 AM
If track 0 is bad then the drive is no longer usable. But, you might be able to move the track 0 position. You can alter the position of the stop, then reformat with primary format software so that you get a whole new formatted disk. Effectively you have moved track 0 a millimeter or so. You will lose all data of course.

I would like to try that.

is it this copper screw in the middle of the picture?

http://members.home.nl/charon.styx/412.jpg

machine
October 18th, 2005, 09:53 AM
Yes, that's it. It's the track zero detector. It's optical and simply senses when the light beam has been intersected. You really want to move the track zero position deeper into the center of the disk's platter, NOT further out. It only needs to move a millimeter, about 1/25 inch. But before you do that make sure you have PRIMARY formatting software... that's the software that writes to the disk and formats tracks. But even before you attempt moving track zero, make sure the speed is correct. There is software around to do this. When I mentioned about dust... really, it doesn't take much dust to alter the speed of the disk... I was surprised when I first saw how little dust there was there. If the disk speed is low then any track will not format correctly as the first part of the track gets overwritten by the last portion of the track resulting in bad track zero error message.

Any other questions just private message me again.

Jorg
October 18th, 2005, 10:53 AM
I found something interesting.

If you look at the picture above you might see the sensor is actually shifted. It rest on the copper screw- but it should be level with it!

Gonna see if that makes any difference.

machine
October 23rd, 2005, 04:40 AM
Be sure you have assembled all the right software before you start this job.

You need PRIMARY formatting software and software which detects the speed of the disk to ensure it is accurate.

Jorg
October 23rd, 2005, 04:47 AM
Be sure you have assembled all the right software before you start this job.

You need PRIMARY formatting software and software which detects the speed of the disk to ensure it is accurate.

Well, nothing to lose..

I am using Ontrack Diskmanager 5.11 and Spinrite II.

machine
November 3rd, 2005, 09:46 PM
During the primary format there may be errors reported. Previous adjacent tracks may be interfering with the read following the write during the format.

I will suggest something radical here. Degauss the disk surface top and bottom. Then do the primary (low-level) format.

Degaussing means to de-magnetize with a degaussing wand. Radio Shack has them (or used to). Any 60 or 50 cycles low level source of magnetism should do it. You can't degauss with a magnet.

You will need to remove the disk to degauss on the lower surface.

Don't worry about handling the disks or exposing them to air, but use new plastic gloves to handle anything.

Jorg
November 4th, 2005, 10:07 AM
hehe, never give up!

I didn't know that was possible.

I did not have the time yet to go on with it, and won't have it this weekend, as I need to pick up another nice 5160- this one even has an EGA card :D

machine
November 10th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Be careful if you are going to degauss (de-magnetize) the disk. High energy levels from the degausser might do damage. Just try the degausser from a distance at first, then format and see if you continue to get errors. If you get errors, then move a bit closer with the degausser and then format again. To do a trial and error system like this you don't need to format the entire disk, just the first few tracks to see if you get errors.

mikey99
August 10th, 2006, 08:12 AM
Has anyone successfully revived an ST-412 by using the procedure
in this thread ? I have one that appears to be dead, gives a Track 00 error during low level format. Apparently moving the set screw will alter the
position of Track 00 on the disk to a usable area. Running a low level
format is also required after moving the set screw.

compu_85
August 10th, 2006, 02:07 PM
I have an ST-506 drive, in my Apple Profile. It is very very noizy, and I would like to try and oil the motor. Does anyone know how to get at the bearings?

BTW, you CANNOT low level format a drive in a ProFile... The drive uses a propritary Apple controller, and it's firmware doesn't support doing a low level format. You have to change the ROMs, then hook it to an Apple ///, and use very hard to find software.

-Jason

billdeg
August 14th, 2006, 03:32 PM
I have an ST-225 with same issue. I usually don't work too long on them after the track 00 is bad. 1703 error when you attempt to low level format I believe.

dreddnott
August 14th, 2006, 05:49 PM
I don't know if it's possible to safely lubricate a direct-drive spindle motor...

Terry Yager
August 14th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Some sources say to freeze 'em, and others claim ya hafta bake 'em. I've never actually tried either method...

--T