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marioplayr
July 5th, 2010, 10:52 AM
i bought an atari lot a few days ago..... it came with an atari 800xl, two atari 400s, two atari 1050 disk drives labled 1 and 2...... ill get to that later....... a cassette recorder by taihaho, a rana systems 1000 disk drive, a sio2pc, and a ton of different types of dos.
ok so now the problems........i cant get anything to load in the cassette drive or the two 1050s. the 1050s are lables 1 and 2 and they canme with a book that calles them atari 1050 dos disk drives..... is that normal or is that something wierd????? also..... can they only run dos and how do you load it?????? do you need a to load a specific type of dos you any type..... i have microsoft dos and i think i have dos 2.5 but whenever i load dos 2.5 it always comes up with a wierd game and not dos....... so, can anyone help me?!?!?!?! thanks a TON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

-Alex

Vint
July 5th, 2010, 11:45 AM
It appears you've got yourself some neat 'stuff', and also appears you are unfamiliar with Atari.
Here's what I've found. When you glom onto a 'new to you' system, of course the first reaction is to run the stuff. That can be a pile of frustrations. So . . . a lot of research is needed. You have to become familiar with something before you can just have fun with it. When I first got my Atari, I couldn't believe the differences between Atari and Commodore. I was so used to Commodore and Atari was a whole 'nother world altogether. When I think back to the amount of learning that went into my understanding of Commodore, and the time it took, I smiled to myself and dispelled my eagerness to plow right into the Atari. It's just going to take some time and effort. Today's computers are just appliances, but yesteryear's computers took some 'learin'. That was half the fun of it all. There is so much Atari info on the Net that you can absorb. Enjoy your new stuff and take your time - because that's what it takes, time.

Here's a good place to start http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/

ahm
July 5th, 2010, 11:50 AM
If you've never owned an 8-bit Atari before, you should at least browse the Atari 8-bit FAQ (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/).

Then start simple. You list a huge pile of stuff there. Hook up the 800XL by itself to see if it works. Then add a single 1050 and try to boot a diskette. (You'll need to set the drive to Drive 1, using the black and white slide switches recessed on the back).

tezza
July 5th, 2010, 12:29 PM
I concur with the two previous posters. 8-bit "home" computers of the late 1970s and 80's all used different systems, software and commands for loading software. Although most had BASIC built in, the specific commands, settings, arrangement of peripherals etc. all varied. It requires a bit of the learning curve if you are not familiar with the systems.

Start with checking the machines boot into BASIC with no peripherals attached. Bear in mind the 400 needs a BASIC cartridge for this. Explore the links mentioned above and then go from there.

Tez

vwestlife
July 5th, 2010, 12:58 PM
ok so now the problems........i cant get anything to load in the cassette drive or the two 1050s. the 1050s are lables 1 and 2 and they canme with a book that calles them atari 1050 dos disk drives..... is that normal or is that something wierd????? also..... can they only run dos and how do you load it?????? do you need a to load a specific type of dos you any type..... i have microsoft dos and i think i have dos 2.5 but whenever i load dos 2.5 it always comes up with a wierd game and not dos.

I think you're getting confused between Atari DOS and MS-DOS (as on a PC). They are two completely different things. Your Atari cannot run MS-DOS, nor can a PC run Atari DOS (at least not without an emulator program).

Since the '90s it has been common lingo to just say "DOS" when referring to MS-DOS or IBM DOS running on a PC, but back in the '80s, there were many different types of Disk Operating Systems, not just MS-DOS... there was Atari DOS, Apple DOS, ProDOS, AmigaDOS, TRS-DOS, etc. -- none of which were directly compatible with each other.

marioplayr
July 5th, 2010, 01:10 PM
i know that the 800xl and 400s work (i have them up and running....) but the 1050s dont work...... also, on the website that you guys gave me..... i did all of the cassette loading codes but none of them have worked so far..... oh.... one more thing, one if the atari 400s cartrige ports dont work.... you put the cartrige in and turn it on and it goes to the memo pad....... so..... if you guys can help me with anything else.... that would be great!!!!!

-alex

p.s. i already had the disk drives sett up with the switches..... thanks again!!!!

marioplayr
July 5th, 2010, 01:13 PM
oh.... ok now i get the whole dos thing but ms dos will not work at all???? in the book, it sais that it can work with 8,16, and i think 32 bit computers.... the atari is an 8-bit computer but i guess its not compatible with the atari.... right?????

-Alex

marioplayr
July 5th, 2010, 01:17 PM
oh... another thing..... when i play the tape in the cassette drive and load it..... it goes until the end of the tape and when you press reset, it goes to this self test thing..... with memory, audio-visual-keyboard-and then all tests..... whats that???? is that the cassette???? im using conversational french.....

-ALex

vwestlife
July 5th, 2010, 02:13 PM
oh.... ok now i get the whole dos thing but ms dos will not work at all???? in the book, it sais that it can work with 8,16, and i think 32 bit computers.... the atari is an 8-bit computer but i guess its not compatible with the atari.... right?????

I don't know where you read that, but it is wrong. MS-DOS does not run on any 8-bit computers.

Microsoft did write other software for 8-bit computers, but not MS-DOS.

Here is a web site which should be helpful to you. It is a complete scan of the book "Atari BASIC, XL Edition".

http://www.atariarchives.org/basicxl/

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 07:26 AM
thanks vwestlife!!!! that really helped me a ton!!!!! but can any one help me with the tape deck or the 1050s???? i really want to get them up and running..... thanks a ton!!!!!!!!!!

-Alex

ahm
July 6th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Alex, you need to give us more information than they "don't work". Since we can't see what you have, or how it's hooked up, you need to tell us that. Then, exactly what are you doing and what happens when you do it. Again, be specific. Include error messages, etc.

Otherwise, if you tell me something doesn't work, my answer is "I guess it's broken".

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 09:58 AM
oh my gosh!!!!!!!!!! im sooooo sorry!!!!!!! i didn't even think of that!!!!!!! OK so the 1050s only make beeps coming out of the speakers in the monitor and the tape drive only plays the tape till the end and that's with all of the load commands on that Atari questions website that you guys gave me....... also, i cant get the sio2pc to do anything, i have ape and all of the cables but i just don't even know how to use it....... i know that its not the peripheral port on the 800xl because i had the Rana systems 100 working in it but that's the only thing that has...... one more thing..... on the one 400 of mine.... when you put the cartridge in and turn it on..... it only shows the memo pad.........so, i hope this helps you help me!!!!!!!!!!! thank you sooooooo much for trying to help me!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Alex

linuxlove
July 6th, 2010, 10:28 AM
Misinformation

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 11:14 AM
but it doesn't say "ready" after it loads..... that's when you type run.....

ahm
July 6th, 2010, 11:49 AM
OK so the 1050s only make beeps coming out of the speakers in the monitor
They're supposed to do that. The beep tells you that it's reading data. It should eventually stop and give you a READY prompt. If one drive doesn't work, try the other. If neither works, maybe the floppy disk you're trying to load is bad; try another one.


also, i cant get the sio2pc to do anything, i have ape and all of the cables but i just don't even know how to use it.......
How do you have it hooked up?

I don't know anything about the 400 or the cassette drive, sorry.

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 12:07 PM
sorry..... i think i forgot to say that the 1050s both make like two beeps and then it starts saying "BOOT ERROR" all the way down the screen..... and the disks im using work because they work in the rana systems 1000..... and as for the sio2pc..... that has the sio going from the sio2pc to the peripheral port on the atari and i have the other cable going from my pc to the sio2pc...... it might be the cable im using...... its going from a cable with 9 pins like the controller port in the 800xl to a 25pin connector..... i had it 9pin to 9 pin but one end of that cable was broken and frayed....... hope this helps!!!!!!!

-Alex

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 12:11 PM
yep..... the one i have it plugged into right now (on the PC end) is a printer plug..... can it work in there???? i dont think it can so...... is the 9 pin thing the only way to go?????

ahm
July 6th, 2010, 12:19 PM
the 1050s both make like two beeps and then it starts saying "BOOT ERROR" all the way down the screen.....
Okay, that's different. Yes, the drives are having trouble reading the disk. Does the lever on the front of the drive seem to swing down all the way?


and the disks im using work because they work in the rana systems 1000.....
So it's either an alignment problem or a density issue.


and as for the sio2pc..... that has the sio going from the sio2pc to the peripheral port on the atari and i have the other cable going from my pc to the sio2pc......
You should be able to connect up the SIO2PC as if it were another floppy drive, specifically the last one in the chain (because it's only got one SIO socket). APE should show you whether it sees any data, so you can figure out if the cable you have works.

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 12:39 PM
yes the lever goes down all the way....... so if its an alignment problem or a density issue..... how do i fix it????? and one more thing....... what is a density issue?????

-Alex

p.s. i opened up the 1050s and the rana systems 1000 to see what was going on differently and the rana slowly slides up on the disk starting from the bottom and the 1050s stay in the same place at the bottom........ hope this helps!!!!!!!!

ahm
July 6th, 2010, 01:02 PM
yep..... the one i have it plugged into right now (on the PC end) is a printer plug..... can it work in there????
This is why you need to slow down and not just plug things in anywhere. No, it's probably not meant for the printer interface, and you may actually have damaged the SIO2PC. I'm going to assume it's the RS-232 version, because you mention a 9-pin connector. I suggest you read the SIO2PC documentation (http://www.atarimax.com/sio2pc/documentation/).

carlsson
July 6th, 2010, 01:23 PM
I know very little about the Atari 8-bit series, but does the Atari DOS version in use depend on what is installed in the computer or the drive? My thinking is that if the floppy disks were formatted with a newer DOS version than what the 1050 drives recognize, could it result in BOOT ERROR despite the Rana drive works? If so, the Rana drive supposedly would have a newer, compatible DOS version).

marioplayr
July 6th, 2010, 02:16 PM
so..... what is dos xl???? does any one know??? i got a disk to run in the rana drive called dos xl atari version 2.20...... any ideas??????

ahm
July 6th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Sorry, my spoon is all out of food. Try searching for it (http://www.google.com/search?q="dos+xl").

tezza
July 6th, 2010, 05:21 PM
Alex,

I may be mistaken but your posts give the impression that you are going far too fast on this. If 8-bit systems like the Atari are new to you, there is a steep learning curve ahead. Most are not intuitive unlike today's systems. It requires quite a bit of background reading and understanding. You won't get tutorials on the basics from this forum, as these are out there on the web for all to study. People might point you in the right direction but that's about all they can do.

My approach would be to forget about SIO2PC at the moment. The SIO2PC system assumes you know the Atari disk system inside-out. Concentrate of learning all you can about the disk operating system of Atari 8-bits and how they work from the users perspective. That stuff can be quite complex. There are different disk densities to consider and whole lot of other stuff besides. Without understanding that you won't know what might be broken and what might not.

Tez

billdeg
July 6th, 2010, 06:14 PM
so..... what is dos xl???? does any one know??? i got a disk to run in the rana drive called dos xl atari version 2.20...... any ideas??????

These aren't the droids your looking for.

Micom 2000
July 7th, 2010, 02:35 AM
As others have suggested, you're trying to go too fast when you don't understand the basics. Understandably you have all these goodies but you won't be able to really use them until you climb the ladder of learning about the alternate platform which 8-bit Atari's or any other non-MS computers are. It's like giving a kid a mainframe when he has only used toy computers. You can always get help here when you recognise specific problems, but first you have to learn the basics of a non-MSDos platform. All platforms have a D(isk) O(perating) S(ystem). A DOS of some sort. Not MSDOS. Tho some are compatible with the Microsoft DOS version, which is the basis of most newer common Operating Systems, most are not. Linux, Apple or Sun systems are all different platforms and you wouldn't expect their disks to be able to run on a MSDOS system. The 8-bit Ataris sometimes only used single-sided floppies, and even the Atari DOS versions you use can have much different capabilities. Hardware also has different capabilities and while the Rana drives are the cadillacs of 8-bit Atari floppy disk drives, you still have to learn the differences with the 1050s. And of course there is the earlier 810 which many Atari 8-bit users attest will work better with the non XL Ataris.

Start simple with a basic setup, and work up the learning ladder from there. Beside the extensive Atari 8bit FAQ, you might check out the old usenet group comp.sys.Atari.8bit which has an immense wealth of info for new Atari 8-bit users.

Lawrence

.

carlsson
July 7th, 2010, 03:23 AM
As well as the FAQ, this document mainly catering to Atari emulator users may be of value to you as well:
http://www.sonic.net/~nbs/new_and_emu.html#general-dos-os-qs

ahm
July 9th, 2010, 05:42 AM
So how did things work out? Are you playing Yoomp! (http://yoomp.atari.pl/) yet?

marioplayr
July 9th, 2010, 08:26 AM
No luck... I'm going to try buying diffrent drives off eBay or something... I looked inside of the drives and there was no belt and some of the boards were broken on both of the 1050s.... Well that might be a problem.... Don't ya think??? oh well.... You win some, you lose some.... It kinda sucks though..... So do you guys think that eBay would be the way to go or is there some where else I can get them with a warinty type thing? Or am I just better off with just sticking to commodore stuff???? Really thanks for all the help you guys have been giving me!!!!!

-Alex

Vint
July 9th, 2010, 09:21 AM
In your original post here you said you 'bought' these items, but you didn't state where.
Now you are wondering if eBay might be a good source of gear to get your Atari 'system' going.
Keep in mind that if you aren't experienced at eBay vintage gear buying that it IS an art form. You can get just as badly burned off eBay as you did with your current Atari 1050's (ref. no belt on one and some broken boards! - ouch!) You got stung! Happens to the best of us sometimes, though.

If you are new to eBay you should only venture bids on systems that are stated as 'good working condition'. Don't settle for the 'powers on' vagueness that most sellers use. In your specific case, I suggest only going with known working drives. 1050's are for sale all the time on eBay, be patient and cull out a good auction, and you may yet profit from your loss :)

vwestlife
July 9th, 2010, 10:15 AM
In my opinion, the best way to get started with an 8-bit Atari computer is with cartridges. They are very reliable and extremely simple to use, and you can collect a wide variety of games and other software. Many of the disk-based games were later re-released on cartridge for the Atari XE series, and these will all work fine on the 800XL. A disk drive is nice to have, but not really necessary to enjoy an Atari computer.

Most of the individual cartridges on eBay are expensive, but if you're a little patient you can get a good deal on a "lot" of cartridges for the 8-bit Ataris. Just make sure you're getting cartridges for the 400/800/XL/XE computer series; the much more common Atari 2600 cartridges will not work!

http://gamesmuseum.pixesthesia.com/history/gen4/xegs/8bitcart.jpg

Note: The cartridge pictured on the lower right is an Atari 5200 cartridge, which won't work, either. All the others shown are for the 8-bit computer series.

Vint
July 9th, 2010, 05:27 PM
Yes, cartridges are a good way to go, and there are some good deals still to be made. I picked up 5 of these 8 Atari carts off eBay just this past week for less than two dollars.

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3880

Can't beat that. Another half dozen went for a little over 3 bucks, but I didn't catch those. The standard Atari joysticks can be had cheaply too.
Perhaps a good sidetrack while you work on getting a 1050 drive for your system there, marioplayr.

marioplayr
July 23rd, 2010, 06:26 AM
hey guys.... i don't really know how but i fixed the cassette drive!!! i had to replace the belts on the inside and i just kinda messed with it and now it works!!!! i know for the commodore 64 you can hook up a cassette recorder up to your PC and record the game from the internet onto the cassette and play it in the commodore 64..... can you do that with atari computers and if so..... where do you find the games???? thanks a bunch for all of your help!!!!!

-Alex