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View Full Version : Any info on vintage Nokia computer "MPS 5" ?



jpx72
July 14th, 2010, 12:38 AM
Hello there
I am searching for any info about an old personal computer from Nokia I've found, made on 19.4.1990, with 80286 CPU and monochrome monitor.
Here are some photos (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/pc_files/nokia.htm).
Unfortunatelly the 20MB HDD is dead and this computer's bios won't accept any bigger drive. I have only 212MB (smallest I've found). So I am searching for bios replacement also...
Any info helps! Thanks!

Agent Orange
July 14th, 2010, 04:44 AM
If your search for a replacement hard drive fails, you could always try a relatively inexpensive SCSI controller to get you back in the game.

k2x4b524[
July 14th, 2010, 05:44 AM
That sucker doesn't look like it's got room for a scsi controller, 1 of the boards looks like some kind of proprietary memory board / CPU board like my zenith runs. The bottom looks like the MONO board with printer on it, and that bad boy has a serial / parallel board in the upper slot. Does the machine boot from a floppy? What are the specs as far as you can tell? Whats wrong with the 20mb?

Unless your keeping originality, i'd axe the mono for a standard vga board,.
Can you get a photo of the system itself? Without any add-in boards?

Agent Orange
July 14th, 2010, 07:38 AM
You're right about that thing being tight. I didn't look at the photos too close first time around. But, if there an extra slot hidden in any of that, a 8-bit Trantor T130B SCSI controller w/ a Maxtor 200 MB 7245SR HD would work okay. I don't think I have more than $20 invested. I use it from time to time in My 1000SX. Anyway, that's a wierd looking setup even for its time, but really cool. Kind of reminds me of an old Packard Bell 286 with the 5 card horizontal riser adapter that I had a long time ago.

Nice find.

Unknown_K
July 14th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Are you sure it only takes a 20MB drive? Is it MFM or IDE?

jpx72
July 14th, 2010, 12:12 PM
Hi thanks for suggestions about the SCSI cards! I was searching on ebay and they go for cca 10 USD. The computer layout is indeed very tight but I am sure that the uppermost card is a newer addon, according to the different cable and connector type, and also it looks newer than the rest of the computer. So when I remove it, there will be place for 2 ISA cards (uppermost slot and the second from bottom).
As I stated in my first post, the computer wont accept bigger drives. But I accepts not up to 20 but up to 118 MB (correction).
The card in second ISA slot from top is the main board with CPU, 2 bios 27c256 chips and on top is the "memory expansion". There is also a slot for 80287 chip, which is not present. The bottom card looks like a standard Hercules card but it has a Nokia logo on the bottom and a bios chip (27C256) with Nokia sticker.
On the other side of the Isa-slot card is another slot with (what I think is) the MFM controller for the Kalok harddrive and floppy.
Also I own an eeprom programmer so I downloaded the bios from the chips -EVEN (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/pc_files/nokia/even.bin) and ODD (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/pc_files/nokia/odd.bin). Also here (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/pc_files/nokia/video.bin) is the video card bios.
All components looks like they have been made exclusively by Nokia and so I think it is strange that I have never found any info about these kind of AT clones...
I was also running some diagnostics using SysChk - I will post the log tomorrow.

MikeS
July 14th, 2010, 12:17 PM
As I stated in my first post, the computer wont accept bigger drives. But I accepts not up to 20 but up to 118 MB (correction).??? What does that mean?

Anyway, why not just use a DDO (drive overlay) like Disk Manager, etc.?

jpx72
July 14th, 2010, 12:22 PM
??? What does that mean?

Sorry for my english, I meant the bios has the code table for about 40 different drives from 20 to 118 MB. When I connect any bigger harddrive, I can't go past the bios error message. So no Disk manager is possible...

MikeS
July 14th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Sorry for my english, I meant the bios has the code table for about 40 different drives from 20 to 118 MB. When I connect any bigger harddrive, I can't go past the bios error message. So no Disk manager is possible...Odd; I've never seen that myself but have heard it from some other folks. Are you sure the new drive(s) are fully functional and compatible (i.e. not a 16-bit drive replacing an 8-bit) and the jumper(s) are correctly set?

What makes & models are the old and new drives?
Exactly what is the BIOS error message (I assume you've got a bootable floppy ready to go)?

kb2syd
July 14th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Odd; I've never seen that myself but have heard it from some other folks. Are you sure the new drive(s) are fully functional and compatible (i.e. not a 16-bit drive replacing an 8-bit) and the jumper(s) are correctly set?
This is fairly typical of the old MFM/RLL drive controllers.

MikeS
July 14th, 2010, 03:32 PM
This is fairly typical of the old MFM/RLL drive controllers.Duh! Just read the line about an MFM Kalok; thought we were talking IDE. Time for new glasses ;-)

So what's this 212MB drive? Surely not MFM? Now I'm really confused.

k2x4b524[
July 14th, 2010, 03:33 PM
40 types of hdd? probably from 10mb to the 118mb, i think that's the range of MFM hard drive capacities though. Is the MFM Controller in it 8-bit or 16-bit? There are some good 16-bit MFM controllers and some good 16-bit IDE controllers still floating around, if you get the IDE, try to find one like a SIIG that has it's own bios, then disable the HDD part of the bios on the computer itself, the siig i have can do upto 8.6gb natively, provided the onboard part of the bios for hard drives is disabled. Or go scsi, or, since you've got the chip programmer, you can download the XT-IDE bios, slap in a card that has a bios socket, and no bios, and go from there.. So many avenues you can pursue

jpx72
July 14th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Thank You for sugestions,
can you point me on some good xt bios (up to 64kb)? I think I will go this way... (EDIT: is this XTIDE universal bios (http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?17986-XTIDE-Universal-BIOS&highlight=xt+bios) a good choice?)

I appologize for not mentioning that but I was using an old ISA IDEcontroller (no self bios) for connecting the bigger IDE HDD. But this was a No-Go solution, because of that bios-error code (I will post that exact message later when I get home, it is something like "101 error in statement", I figured out that this is pointing out the wrong hdd choice. When I think of it now, I don't know if I tried to set the bios to disable hdd drive completely to get past the error... But I didn't knew about the possibility of adding the drive by software controller later in the setup, until I got to this forum. I will try that today).
I got to this forum just yesterday, and I already know much more than I did before about my old PC.

Still it bothers me that there's no info on Nokia ATs... When you search on google, there's the MikroMikko from 70's and next...a mobile phone. Nothing in between. Is it possible that it is some other Nokia company? On the custom video card is written Made in Sweden. Isn't Nokia a Finish company?

EDIT: I've found a -page- (http://ech.kapsi.fi/misc/3tt/) about mikromikko 3TT which is VERY simillar to my computer...

modem7
July 16th, 2010, 02:50 PM
On the other side of the Isa-slot card is another slot with (what I think is) the MFM controller for the Kalok harddrive and floppy.

I appologize for not mentioning that but I was using an old ISA IDEcontroller (no self bios) for connecting the bigger IDE HDD. But this was a No-Go solution, because of that bios-error code
The IDE controller will be using the same resources (I/O addresses, etc.) that the MFM controller uses. Therefore you can't have both plugged in at the same time.


Also I own an eeprom programmer so I downloaded the bios from the chips
One more option. We can modify the BIOS code for you, changing the parameters of one of the drive types to what you need.
Very easy. I can see in the BIOS code that the Fixed Disk Parameter Table is in the standard location of F000:E401

jpx72
July 18th, 2010, 10:11 PM
One more option. We can modify the BIOS code for you, changing the parameters of one of the drive types to what you need.
Very easy. I can see in the BIOS code that the Fixed Disk Parameter Table is in the standard location of F000:E401

WOW that would be cool, I will write down the heads/cyls/etc from the 212Mb Hdd and I'll post them later. BTW how are you going to do that? Did you run that bios through some dissassembler? Just curious...

About the same resources problem - are you sure that I cannot have both controllers on one PC? MFM and IDE? Why?

modem7
July 19th, 2010, 04:36 AM
WOW that would be cool, I will write down the heads/cyls/etc from the 212Mb Hdd and I'll post them later. BTW how are you going to do that? Did you run that bios through some dissassembler? Just curious...
You posted the contents of your EVEN and ODD ROMs. Using a simple program I wrote, I joined them (EVEN becomes the even addresses, ODD becomes the odd addresses) to create a 64KB sized file. The file is equivalent to the F0000 (F000:0) to FFFFF address space in your computer. The standard location in address space for the Fixed Disk Parameter Table is F000:E401
Therefore I opened the 64KB file using a hex editor and jumped to address E401h within the file. There I could see the Fixed Disk Parameter Table.

Modification:
Within the 64KB file, I edit the Fixed Disk Parameter Table as required, then I adjust the CRC byte as required. I then run my program again, this time splitting the 64KB file into EVEN and ODD components (two files each 32KB). I send you the new EVEN and ODD files, which you burn to ROMs.


About the same resources problem - are you sure that I cannot have both controllers on one PC? MFM and IDE? Why?
You can if one of them is reconfigured to become a 'secondary' controller.
For example, see post http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?10200-ST-225-MFM-in-newer-PC&p=58012#post58012

jpx72
July 19th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the insight! I've managed to combine the files, but that's all I could do. I don't know how to interpret the hex values. But that's not important now. Here http://jpx72.detailne.sk/upload/hdd.jpg are the details of the HDD I would like to use in my PC so if You would be so kind and modify one of the drive types (for example Type #1) to match the specifications from the picture, I would be very gratefull.
About the MFM+IDE, for now, I am studying the forum (thanks for the link)and when I figure out something I will post my success or failure :)

aitotat
July 19th, 2010, 09:40 PM
That is a picture from IDE drive. MikroMikko 3 TT (you said it was very similiar) was released in 1987 so it almost certainly does not have IDE support build in the BIOS. Editing the Fixed disk parameter table won't help. You need IDE controller with it's own BIOS.

jpx72
July 19th, 2010, 09:46 PM
Yes it's IDE HDD, but I have this card (sorry I don't know the manufacturer or anything about it, just that it is a IDE controller):
http://jpx72.detailne.sk/upload/ide.jpg
EDIT: Probably this is it - CLICK (http://www.artofhacking.com/th99/c/I-L/20353.htm) (the card has "IDE3" written bottom-left, and also the pin numbers are correct)

modem7
July 20th, 2010, 02:39 AM
That is a picture from IDE drive. MikroMikko 3 TT (you said it was very similiar) was released in 1987 so it almost certainly does not have IDE support build in the BIOS. Editing the Fixed disk parameter table won't help. You need IDE controller with it's own BIOS.
Any particular reason why? Early IDE drives function well in CHS mode, and the Caviar 1210 doesn't have a problem geometry for the situation (e.g. more than 1024 cylinders, e.g. more than 63 SPT)

To prove it:

Whilst I don't have a Caviar 1210, I have an comparable IDE drive, an IBM H3256-A3.

Caviar 1210: 989 cyl / 12 heads / 35 SPT (approx 212MB)
IBM H3256-A3: 872 cyl / 16 heads / 36 SPT (approx 256MB)

1. Opened up my first-model IBM 5170 with original ROMs (definitely no IDE support in those).
2. Created a modified set of those ROMs where the only modification (apart from the checksum byte) is that entry #1 (type 1) in the Fixed Disk Parameter Table is 872 cyl / 16 heads / 36 SPT
3. Fitted modified ROMs in place of original ROMs
4. Removed original IBM hard/floppy controller (ST506/412 type [commonly referred to as MFM]).
5. Fitted a floppy controller.
6. Fitted an early vanilla IDE controller - no BIOS - all 15 chips are 74xxx series TTL.
7. Connected H3256-A3 to IDE controller.
8. Booted from floppy, then configured BIOS/CMOS to use type #1 for hard drive.
9. Booted from DOS 6.22 floppy, then FDISK/FORMAT. Correct drive size shown.

5170 then booted from hard drive.

Ran SpeedStor diagnostics on the drive. All good.

Filled drive with 30MB of data, which I had earlier CRC'd. Ran CRC check program which confirmed all 30MB good. Ideally I should have filled the entire drive, but I have no reason to suspect failure.

jpx72
July 20th, 2010, 02:49 AM
5170 then booted from hard drive.
Thats very good news! :D

modem7
July 20th, 2010, 03:18 AM
.. so if You would be so kind and modify one of the drive types (for example Type #1) to match the specifications from the picture, I would be very grateful.
Try it yourself if you want to.

My crude split/join program (for Windows) is at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/software/oddeven.zip

A description of the Fixed Disk Parameter Table (the AT one) is at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/misc/at_fdpt.pdf
So type #1 (entry #1) in the Fixed Disk Parameter Table, is the first 16 bytes (eight 16-bit words) at F000:E401

So to change entry #1 (type #1), with your hex editor, you'll be modifying your 64MB file per:

1. Change byte at E401h from 32h to DDh, and byte at E402h from 01h to 03h [ cylinders from 0132h (306d) to 03DDh (989d) ]
2. Change byte at E403h from 04h to 0Ch [ heads from 04h (4d) to 0Ch (12d) ]
3. Change byte at E406h from 80h to FFh, and byte at E407h from 00h to FFh [ WPC = FFFFh = none ]
4. Change byte at E409h from 00h to 08h [ control byte to reflect 'more than 8 heads' ]
5. Change byte at E40Dh from 31h to DDh, and byte at E40Eh from 01h to 03h [ Landing zone = cylinder count, per WD manual for the drive ]
6. Change byte at E40Fh from 11h to 23h [ SPT from 11h (17d) to 23h (35d) ]

Checksum byte

7. Change byte at FFFFh from ABh to 60h [ so that 8-bit checksum becomes 0 ]

jpx72
July 20th, 2010, 03:44 AM
WOW :o THANKS! I'll get to work right now and let You know how it turns out! (This way I can make changes to the bios on the fly without bothering You anymore :) )

jpx72
July 20th, 2010, 04:12 AM
One thing I don't understand - on adress E401h and E402h are values 32 and 01. Shouldn't they be reversed? I mean - now there is Hex 3201 which means 12801 in Dec (and not the reversed hex 0132 which means dec 306)... Sorry for the lame question but it's read from the back? Or...now it lights me up....:lightbulb: it's because the file would be splitted to Even and Odd parts?

aitotat
July 20th, 2010, 07:18 AM
Any particular reason why?

I simply forgot that MFM works differently on XT and AT.
Anyway, i wouldn't start by editing Fixed Disk Parameter Tables. The drive should work as any type that has less than or equal cylinders, heads and sectors.

aitotat
July 20th, 2010, 07:24 AM
One thing I don't understand - on adress E401h and E402h are values 32 and 01. Shouldn't they be reversed?

x86 CPUs are little-endian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness) so they store least significant byte to lowest memory address.

jpx72
July 20th, 2010, 09:40 PM
x86 CPUs are little-endian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness) so they store least significant byte to lowest memory address.
Wow another novelty for me... but very interresting reading over at wikipedia. I've never studied computers on this level.

I've managed to edit the bios file succesfully, but at first run it wasn't working. I figured out that the checksum was incorrect - I've downloaded a small prog over from this site (http://www.keil.com/download/docs/5.asp) (ignore the password) to calculate checksum of the original bios and the result was 0x50. So I've changed the last byte from ABh to B0h, and managed to succesfully boot up the computer.

The values for Type#1 Hdd are correctly changed but still no luck runnning the bastard with Error - Drive not ready (or something simillar). But since I had plugged in both controllers (MFM and IDE), I will try it with just one today, and experiment a little further.

I couldn't find the right manual for the drive so I am still wondering if all the values were changed correctly (Precomp and Landing Zone), and could somebody explain to me the values of the control byte (I can't figure that out from the description)?
Thank You all for Your replies!

EDIT: I have found something (http://www.4drives.com/DRIVESPECS/WD/4734.txt) like manual and here's the info about the landing zone:

Precomp and L-zone should be set equal to the drive's cylinder count + 1.
...so, should I change the Landing zone from 989 to 990? And what about the Precomp?

aitotat
July 21st, 2010, 12:10 AM
You cannot use AT-MFM and AT-IDE controllers at the same time since the BIOS will try to find single controller at port 1F0h and two different cards can't share the same ports.

Landing zone cylinder (for parking the drive) and Starting write precompensation cylinder are used on MFM drives and not on IDE drives. They are disabled when set to higher than last accessible cylinder. For IDE drives the landing zone is usually set to maximum cylinder + 1 and write precompensation to FFFFh (65535) but any value should work.

Control byte is simple for IDE drives:
Bit 3 = Drive has over 8 heads (pre-ATA only, 1 on ATA1, reserved on ATA2+)
Bit 2 = Software reset (controller will reset when this is set to 1 for a short time)
Bit 1 = Negated Interrupt Enable (IRQ disabled when set)
Other bits are reserved and must be set to zero.

modem7
July 21st, 2010, 01:02 AM
More information about Landing Zone and IDE drives. The 'Landing Zone' is meant to be used by programs that 'park the heads'. It's the cylinder that such programs are meant to move the heads to. IDE drives automatically park on power-down, and so even if you set the Landing Zone figure to say, 50, then ran a head parking program that moved the heads to cylinder 50, the IDE drive on power-down will move the heads to where it wants them.

modem7
July 21st, 2010, 02:34 AM
I've managed to edit the bios file successfully, but at first run it wasn't working. I figured out that the checksum was incorrect - I've downloaded a small prog over from this site (http://www.keil.com/download/docs/5.asp) (ignore the password) to calculate checksum of the original bios and the result was 0x50. So I've changed the last byte from ABh to B0h, and managed to successfully boot up the computer.
Good pickup. 00 is such a standard that I didn't bother to check the 8-bit checksum of your BIOS before modifying it. My bad.

jpx72
July 21st, 2010, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the information on "Control byte" and "Landing zone" parameters! This topic is getting quite educational
(at least for me)!
{ I had a hard time finding out the mechanics for bit-editing of single bytes, but everything turned out well and now I know how to read in binary numeral system :) }
No time to do anything yesterday, so no update on my progress. Hopefully today I'll get to it...

jpx72
July 27th, 2010, 01:03 AM
SUCCESS !!!!
Hi everybody, I hadn't much time to work on my Nokia PC but recently (yesterday) I was -finally- able to make the 212MB WD HDD work with it.
I removed the MFM HDD Controller and inserted The IDE HDD Controller (to another slot). Bios was edited - Type1 HDD changed to required parameters of my HDD. On first try, no luck - "903 Drive controller error". So I set the drive in Bios on "no drive" and ran SpeedStor. In SpeedStor - manually set drive - "Standard drive types" - Type#1" (I was surprised that there were parameters that I had set by editing my bios). Initialize - DONE! Partitioning - automatic - DONE!
OK, I had several partitions all sized 32MB, first one DOS. But no matter, I will discover how this works later, but for now, I have working Nokia PC!!!!
Thanks for all suggestions and information!
You guys are great! :toast2:

EDIT: is there any topic about SpeedStor? Please post links if you have some! Thanks!