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View Full Version : This is not a 5150, is it?



Jorg
October 4th, 2005, 11:02 AM
This guy says he has an original IBM 5150 for sale, but the picture doesnt look like it to me.

I'm just wondering, what it is, because it does look like it a bit.

Anyone know what it could be then?

http://fotos.marktplaats.nl/fotos/hardware/oudepcs/24395.jpg

mryon
October 4th, 2005, 01:20 PM
that is not an IBM 5150.

unfortunatly, I don't know exactly what it is.

It does look a bit like a 5150 but with the colour graphics and what appears to be a hard drive in the right hand bay, me thinks it more likely an XT clone.

(but yeah, those could be add-ons)

Terry Yager
October 4th, 2005, 02:00 PM
Is that "Industrial Gray" or is it a trick of the lighting? I've seen TrueBlue industrial grade monitors that look a lot like that. If it's an industrial 5150, then all bets are off, since it wouldn't necessarily look the same as the standard unit. Can you get a close-up pic of the nameplate?
I've never actually seen an industrial grade 5150, so I have no idea what one would look like. I have seen an industrial IBM '286, and it looked nothing like the standard AT case.

--T

Terry Yager
October 4th, 2005, 02:19 PM
BTW, if it is an IBM machine, grab it up! (and if you don't want it, I will). I sold an industrial gray keyboard alone for $200.00 recently (+ $48.00 for shipping to Korea).

--T

Terry Yager
October 4th, 2005, 02:25 PM
Oh yeah, I have a pic, so you can see the resemblance:

http://webpages.charter.net/shent449/comphell/PDRM0113.JPG

Looks like the same monitor, don't it? (Except that mine has an anti-glare filter attached to the screen). The monitor I have also has an internal cooling fan as well.

--T

Erik
October 4th, 2005, 03:48 PM
I don't know about the monitor or keyboard but the system unit isn't a 5150. It looks like an early clone, though.

E

Anonymous Coward
October 4th, 2005, 08:39 PM
It's not a clone, it's the real deal. I know of an industrial IBM PC/XT, but I've never seen an industrial PC before. Since it has a hard drive installed, I'd probably say it's an XT. I think it might not be a 5160 though. It may have a different number, otherwise it should be exactly the same. IBM built those machines in a special chassis that has all sorts of special filters and stuff for nasty environments.

Terry Yager
October 4th, 2005, 09:06 PM
I'm guessing that there's a fan behind the little louvres on the front of the case?

--T

mbbrutman
October 4th, 2005, 09:11 PM
The way to tell if it is a 5150 or a 5160 is to count card slots, not hard drives.

A 5150 should not have a hard drive because the power supply is too weak. That being said, my 5150 (and many others) have hard drives.

If it has 5 slots in back it is a 5150. It will also have a cassette port. A 5160 will have 8 slots and no cassette port.

MystikShadows
October 5th, 2005, 01:48 AM
Here's a website that has pictures of the 5150

http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/ibm/5150.php

Jorg
October 5th, 2005, 10:22 AM
This is the text in the ad (private advertising site, something like e-bay)

NAME PC - Model 5150
MANUFACTURER IBM
TYPE Professional Computer
ORIGIN U.S.A.
YEAR 1986
BUILT IN LANGUAGE IBM BASIC (Special Microsoft BASIC-80 version in ROM)
KEYBOARD Full stroke 'clicky' 83 keys with 10 function keys and numeric keypad
CPU Intel 8088
SPEED 4.77 MHz
COPROCESSOR Optional 8087 math coprocessor
RAM 64 KB (The very first ones had only 16 KB)
ROM 64 KB
TEXT MODES 40 or 80 char x 25 lines
GRAPHIC MODES Optional CGA graphic modes : 320 x 200 / 640 x 200
COLORS Monochrome / 4 among 8 in 320 x 200 CGA mode
SOUND Tone Generator - built-in speaker
SIZE / WEIGHT 50.8 (W) x 40.6 (D) x 14 (H) cm
I/O PORTS Five internal 8 bit ISA slots, monitor, Centronics, cassette (!),
BUILT IN MEDIA One 160 KB 5.25'' disk-drive
OS MS-DOS, CP/M-86, USCD Pascal
POWER SUPPLY Built-in 63.5W switching power supply unit
PERIPHERALS 5 expansion slots, 20 MB hard discs
PRICE 2248 (1 FD, Colour monitor, U.K., 1985)

Price is the original price- now he is asking about $50,-.

I sent him a mail to see if its still available, its an ad from August..

Note the description says: TYPE Professional Computer, not Personal! (might be a point for you, Terry!)

If I can I'll grab it!

Terry Yager
October 5th, 2005, 10:29 AM
If the above is true, then it's a real "find", since they're not that common, and worth much more than the asking price. If you don't want it, lemme know the url. (If the owner has already scrapped it, don't tell me...I'd hate for you all to see me cry).

--T

Terry Yager
October 5th, 2005, 10:45 AM
Note the description says: TYPE Professional Computer, not Personal! (might be a point for you, Terry!)

Yes, I caught that too.

And yes, the Industrial Grade IBM stuff that I have seen is heavily sealed and filtered against harsh environments. (It's more than just a paint-job).

--T

mryon
October 5th, 2005, 11:50 AM
for $50, I think I'd buy it and take a chance. ;)

If it is one of those Industrial versions, that sounds pretty cool.

Terry Yager
October 5th, 2005, 12:44 PM
for $50, I think I'd buy it and take a chance. ;)

If it is one of those Industrial versions, that sounds pretty cool.

What I'm thinking is that the monitor is definitely industrial, so it alone should be worth at least fifty.

--T

Jorg
October 6th, 2005, 08:59 AM
Too bad, its been sold..

mryon
October 6th, 2005, 02:15 PM
all that work and we didn't get it?

yes, it became a team effort :)

Terry Yager
October 6th, 2005, 02:34 PM
Well, at least it didn't go to the landfill...let's just hope it's found a good home.

--T

Chris2005
November 10th, 2005, 04:21 PM
can someone show me the damn picture! for some reason, it won't show up. there were ruggedized mil-spec versions of the 5150 also keep in mind (or did someone say that already?).

Terry Yager
November 10th, 2005, 04:28 PM
can someone show me the damn picture! for some reason, it won't show up. there were ruggedized mil-spec versions of the 5150 also keep in mind (or did someone say that already?).

Apparently the image has been removed from the host page, I can't access it either.

--T

Chris2005
November 10th, 2005, 04:31 PM
and it looks like that's just what you have Terry, a militarized PC. I know someone who has the system unit, sans p/s I think (the last time I saw him). Maybe I should grab it. hmmm

Chris2005
November 10th, 2005, 04:32 PM
uhhh, militarized pc monitor that is. You'd know better then me though.

Terry Yager
November 10th, 2005, 05:05 PM
uhhh, militarized pc monitor that is. You'd know better then me though.

Unfortunately, it ain't in working condition. I'm gonna try gutting-out a regular 5153 someday, and install it into the Industrial shell (at least, I think that'll work).

--T

Chris2005
November 11th, 2005, 08:03 AM
don't zap yourself, but it might be worthwhile to take a peak inside. If the tube is still good, and hopefully the transformers, it could just need a minor component repair.

Terry Yager
November 11th, 2005, 09:22 AM
I dunno, I can't even test it right now because someone has cut off the data cable.

--T

Mad-Mike
November 11th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Most of the IBM monitors I've seen have an internal connection for the monitor cable, usually attached as if it's supposed to be an FRU to a monitor technician. I've seen the old G40 and and PS/2 cables, maybe there's a way to swipe a cable from a 5153.

Terry Yager
November 11th, 2005, 05:13 PM
Most of the IBM monitors I've seen have an internal connection for the monitor cable, usually attached as if it's supposed to be an FRU to a monitor technician. I've seen the old G40 and and PS/2 cables, maybe there's a way to swipe a cable from a 5153.

Yah, dot's what I'm hoping...

--T

Chris2005
November 28th, 2005, 03:59 PM
just checking back Terry. Wondering where you got with the monitor. Would like to see you get it running

And if the person with the funky 5150 could repost the picture I'd sore appreciate it. Was at that dude's house yesterday. He has the empty shell of a military style 5150, and he thinks a whole one somewhere. I'm going to unload this guy's whole house one of these days...for real. Got to set up a storage area fer it though. Picked up an IBM AT, Compaq portable II, and a Sony SMC-70** ... can't remember yesterday though. I love all this crap so much sigh.

Jorg
November 28th, 2005, 05:47 PM
just checking back Terry. Wondering where you got with the monitor. Would like to see you get it running

And if the person with the funky 5150 could repost the picture I'd sore appreciate it. Was at that dude's house yesterday. He has the empty shell of a military style 5150, and he thinks a whole one somewhere. I'm going to unload this guy's whole house one of these days...for real. Got to set up a storage area fer it though. Picked up an IBM AT, Compaq portable II, and a Sony SMC-70** ... can't remember yesterday though. I love all this crap so much sigh.

I'd like to repost it but it was a link to a auction site- and they removed the ad :(

Terry Yager
November 28th, 2005, 05:53 PM
just checking back Terry. Wondering where you got with the monitor. Would like to see you get it running

And if the person with the funky 5150 could repost the picture I'd sore appreciate it. Was at that dude's house yesterday. He has the empty shell of a military style 5150, and he thinks a whole one somewhere. I'm going to unload this guy's whole house one of these days...for real. Got to set up a storage area fer it though. Picked up an IBM AT, Compaq portable II, and a Sony SMC-70** ... can't remember yesterday though. I love all this crap so much sigh.

I'd like to repost it but it was a link to a auction site- and they removed the ad :(

It may take a few weeks ,but I'll let ya know what I come up with (got a couple other projects ahead of that one).

--T

billdeg
December 1st, 2005, 04:51 AM
I was surprised to find in the IBM Series 1 minicomputer sales literature that the 5150 was included as part of the Series 1 "as the entry-level Series 1" and there are pictures of early variations which I believe the system associated with this post is included (Based on your descriptions, the pic is gone). (I believe) Before IBM caught on that the 5150 was going to be a successful home/business computer there were a number of variations floating around that they were marking to different niches until they standardized the design. There were different types of displays and disp. cards also. I have not researched the web to see if these part numbers I have in the Series 1 docus are listed anywhere publicly, I assumed that they were and have not taken the time to put 'em up.

For example, there is a video card called an "mcga" that was only compatible with an mcga monitor (I forget the part number). I have seen one or two of these in my early work days. They look just like the regular cga except they have more of a green tint to the glass when powered off.

My 2 cents.

carlsson
December 2nd, 2005, 02:04 AM
Isn't MCGA famous for its 256 colour mode? I remember it was really easy to program and was supported by VGA cards. Many DOS games ran in this graphic mode, IIRC. So while the graphic card itself might have been a rarity, its graphic capacity lived through naming a mode after it.

Jorg
December 2nd, 2005, 02:30 AM
Isn't MCGA famous for its 256 colour mode? I remember it was really easy to program and was supported by VGA cards. Many DOS games ran in this graphic mode, IIRC. So while the graphic card itself might have been a rarity, its graphic capacity lived through naming a mode after it.

Yes, thats how I remember it too. Never seen an original card tbh.


/ aha:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCGA

"The 256-color mode in VGA was sometimes referred to as MCGA even though MCGA only existed on the PS/2. No MCGA cards were ever made."

billdeg
December 2nd, 2005, 04:37 AM
I know for sure that I installed IBM mcga cards into IBM XT computers for special IBM monitors with "mcga" on them. They looked like 5153 monitors. I remember at the time having trouble finding an mCGA monitor so most of these cards were "discarded". This was at DuPont in Wilm Delaware. Of course I do not have the physical proof, but you can trust me :-)

Now I have a mission. Wikipedia is wrong in my opinion.

Jorg
December 2nd, 2005, 05:23 AM
I know for sure that I installed IBM mcga cards into IBM XT computers for special IBM monitors with "mcga" on them. They looked like 5153 monitors. I remember at the time having trouble finding an mCGA monitor so most of these cards were "discarded". This was at DuPont in Wilm Delaware. Of course I do not have the physical proof, but you can trust me :-)

Now I have a mission. Wikipedia is wrong in my opinion.

Wikipedia is wrong often- I see it as a status of the general opinion- valid until someone with more knowledge (eg you ;) ) comes by- so indeed, you got a mission :)

carlsson
December 2nd, 2005, 10:38 AM
Because it wasn't a monochrome MGA or MDA card? :wink: As far as I can find, the only references to MCGA as a graphics card are the PS/2 ones, and one site mentioned that it only was available in MCA bus flavour. If I'm not mistaken, the IBM XT uses ISA bus or its predecessor?

On the other hand, PS/2 model 25 and 30 use ISA bus, so if it came with or offered a MCGA card separately rather than integrated on the mother board, it might be possible to install those cards in other IBM PCs too..


The IBM PS/2 Model 30 came in two types: One is an XT, the other a 286.
http://www.walshcomptech.com/ps2/mod30.htm

Terry Yager
December 2nd, 2005, 10:58 AM
The Models 25, 30, & 30/286 all have the MCGA adaptor integrated on the mainboard. They can use a standard VGA monitor (the model 25 has the monitor built-in).

--T

mbbrutman
December 3rd, 2005, 07:15 AM
In response to BillDeg's comment on the various niches for PCs ...

I always thought that the options on the PC and XT from IBM were pretty clear. IBM did not have many different ways to market these things. Usually there was an entire new model to fit a niche market. Here are the ones I know of:

IBM PC: This is the 5150 with three different BIOS versions
IBM XT: This is the 5160 with two different BIOS versions
XT/3270: Extra cards and different keyboard for 3270 connectivity to mainframes
XT/370: Built in IBM 370 emulator
AT/.370: Built-in IBM 360 emulator

There was an industrial model of the PC, XT and AT - this was just a different case designed for the rigors of industrial use.

There were not a lot of variations on these machines. In the era of the PC and XT IBM had a set number of very well documented options. Here are the common ones:

- Monochrome graphics and printer adapter card
- CGA card
- Memory cards
- Async card
- SDLC, Bisync, and other weirdo comm cards

For an XT you had the hard drive controller and a 10MB hard drive, plus extra slots on the mother board. But basically it's a PC.

For PCs and XTs you could also hook up the expansion chassis (5161) for additional cards and hard drives.

It really was a pretty limited universe.

With the intro of the AT you had the EGA card, new hard drive options (20 or 30MB, and 0, 1 or 2 drives), 16 bit memory cards, 16 bit hard disk controller, and a revised floppy controller that supported the 1.2MB drives and dropped the external connector for external floppy drvies. But even on an AT you could use the existing 16 bit cards, with the exception of the memory cards. CGA, Mono, Async, etc. would all work.

IBM generally left niche-marketing to business partners. Or worse, clone manufacturers. :-)

Terry Yager
December 7th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Just a quick update. Earlier in this thread, I stated that I'd never seen an Industrial-Grade IBM PC/XT. Well, now I have, in fact, I found one in ComputerHell yesterday. Inside, it's pretty standard IBM parts, etc. In appearance, it's quite different from the standard XT. It has a door that opens up to reveal the drives. It is badged as an Allen-Bradley, Manufactured by IBM. I'll try and get some pictures posted later.

--T