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View Full Version : Ugh... Received IBM EGA industrial monitor... Crappy packaging = cracked case!



EddieDX4
August 28th, 2010, 05:41 PM
I just received the IBM EGA industrial monitor I bought a little over a week ago off of eBay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290465129335&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

As soon as I got it I felt how flimsy the box it was packaged in was... I could feel the shape of the monitor bulging through the flexing box!! I then spotted a part of the box that was broken and you could see straight through inside.

Then, I opened up the flaps and my worst fears came true... The monitor was literally swimming inside this box and the upper right corner of the case had cracked/snapped! It was clearly from an impact blow to that corner... I am sooooooooooooo upset at how poorly this was packed. There is absolutely no excuse! I paid $53 for shipping and "handling", and the shipping on the box clearly states $39... Where the hell did the other $14 go???

Ridiculous! :angry:

I contacted the seller to see what he can offer. I was so looking forward to this monitor. It is really a great looking monitor in person.. The pictures on eBay do it no justice. It's that almost pewter color that the industrial Model M's are. Beautiful monitor. Ugh... I really wanted it to be ok.

Sorry about the rant. I'm just so mad right now.

Chuckster_in_Jax
August 28th, 2010, 05:50 PM
Let's see........ Now what kind of feedback are you going to leave for the seller?

Chuck(G)
August 28th, 2010, 05:55 PM
The $14 was obviously for "handling". :killcomputer:

At least my last eBay stupid (DIMMs stuck in an ordinary baggie) resulted in the seller shipping a second batch packaged right.

linuxlove
August 28th, 2010, 05:57 PM
It was shipped via UPS. No wonder.

EddieDX4
August 28th, 2010, 06:01 PM
It was shipped via UPS. No wonder.

NOPE... USPS.

It does not matter who you ship through, if you improperly package something chances are it will not make it in 1 piece.

I'm not leaving feedback until he provides his "resolution". He does state "7 day DOA warranty", so we'll see... But I really don't want to mail this thing back.

I took pictures, which I'll post in a bit. I am about to test the monitor to see if it is still functional.

Chuckster_in_Jax
August 28th, 2010, 06:10 PM
This happens a lot to our members. If you do a search you'll find several threads from angry members that received damaged computers due to insufficient packaging. There is a time limit to file a claim. so don't wait till it's too late. You should get the total amount back including shipping. Be advised that the seller may require you to ship the unit back to them at your expense.

linuxlove
August 28th, 2010, 07:07 PM
NOPE... USPS.
USPS? Interesting; I looked at the now closed auction and it said the seller was shipping through UPS Ground:
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/imageupload/1283051138.th.18732.png (http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/imageupload/1283051138.or.18732.png)

Though I'm not going to argue this point further; you already said that bad packaging will give it a very good chance of getting broken.

EddieDX4
August 28th, 2010, 07:13 PM
USPS? Interesting; I looked at the now closed auction and it said the seller was shipping through UPS Ground:
http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/imageupload/1283051138.th.18732.png (http://www.betaarchive.co.uk/imageupload/1283051138.or.18732.png)

Though I'm not going to argue this point further; you already said that bad packaging will give it a very good chance of getting broken.

Exactly, you've argued enough... Without really knowing anything. It was shipped USPS parcel post. I got the package, I should know.

gerrydoire
August 28th, 2010, 08:24 PM
I bought a Tandy 1000 with monitor from some guy on ebay, when I received it VIA A COURIER???????? it was smashed, but I got my money back, but it goes
to show buying a PC from EBAY People, it very dubious...

Agent Orange
August 28th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Maybe we should have a new forum catagory - we could call it "Rogues Gallery" or some such and keep track of the problems sellers.

EddieDX4
August 28th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Maybe we should have a new forum catagory - we could call it "Rogues Gallery" or some such and keep track of the problems sellers.

That's the thing... This seller has a fairly good feedback record, in the couple of thousand. Maybe he got lazy? Or maybe he's always packaged things this badly, but has gotten lucky and this is among the first (or few) casualties.

I'll formulate a more accurate opinion once I hear back from him. I'm not leaving negative feedback (or any feedback, for that matter) until I know with certainty what the outcome is.

Dave Farquhar
August 29th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Given that he charged $14 extra, he should have been able to buy packing materials, or drive to a furniture store to scrounge some foam out of the dumpster.

glitch
August 29th, 2010, 07:08 AM
If I ship something unusually fragile like vacuum tube equipment or a vintage monitor, I usually let the guys at UPS pack it for their fairly reasonable fee. That way, I don't mess up, and if there /is/ a problem, the shipping company is more likely to cover it (never had them /not/ cover it when it's insured with their packing). Handling fees bother me anyway, unless it's something like getting UPS to pack it for you -- in 99% of my sales, "packing" involves wrapping in bubble wrap (usually recycled), placing the item in a flat-rate box, and sealing it.

Dave Farquhar
August 29th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Handling fees bother me anyway, unless it's something like getting UPS to pack it for you -- in 99% of my sales, "packing" involves wrapping in bubble wrap (usually recycled), placing the item in a flat-rate box, and sealing it.

I don't mind a reasonable handling fee. Sometimes people will sell a book or DVD and then ship it in the box their frozen dinner came in. If paying an extra dollar means it'll show up in a bubble mailer that will give it some protection, I'd rather pay the extra dollar. I know bubble mailers cost a dollar or dollar fifty at the post office, and I know if you buy them in quantity they cost more like 20 cents.

It doesn't matter to me if you scrounge your packing materials or pay for them. If you know where to look to get the stuff for free, that's your effort and it's still worth something. And if paying a little extra means you'll spend an appropriate amount of time packing it, rather than just throwing it in a box and hoping nobody notices, that's fine.

The case in question here is definitely a problem though. When the guy pocketed a $14 profit on shipping, then just threw it in a box and sent it on its way, that's just not right. Whether the buyer pays $14 for him to pack it with scrounged materials, or for him to take it to the UPS store and have them pack it with new materials doesn't matter. If the monitor had arrived intact, Eddie probably wouldn't care enough about the $14 to mention it.

Raven
August 29th, 2010, 10:29 AM
When I sell on eBay I add a $5 handling fee just for the effort of me driving to the post office and the gas to get there, heh. I don't charge a cent above the actual shipping cost for the effort of packing or the cost of packing materials - that's a given in my book.

EddieDX4
August 29th, 2010, 10:51 AM
The case in question here is definitely a problem though. When the guy pocketed a $14 profit on shipping, then just threw it in a box and sent it on its way, that's just not right. Whether the buyer pays $14 for him to pack it with scrounged materials, or for him to take it to the UPS store and have them pack it with new materials doesn't matter. If the monitor had arrived intact, Eddie probably wouldn't care enough about the $14 to mention it.

Hit the nail on the head. This was a rare vintage item I truly wanted to make it in 1 piece (not that I don't care about other items, but this of all....) Heck, if he had said "$20 for handling plus shipping" and I had truly believed the $20 would be the difference between a cracked case or it arriving as it was pictures in the auction, I would have gladly paid the $20. I cared for this that much.

With that said, I did get a response from the seller and he was extremely apologetic. As I had suggested to keep it (being that it's functional) vs sending it back, he did offer me a partial refund. The amount was reasonable and did make it worth my while as he essentially refunded me shipping plus some. He also stated that he would ensure he properly packed any future shipments and his priority is to keep his customers happy. The latter could be seen as a generic response, but I've had a few eBay sellers for other issues not be as "polite" in their wording, so he still receives credit.

One thing to note is that this isn't one of those sellers that holds feedback ransom until the buyer provides feedback. Shortly after me sending him funds through PayPal he posted positive feedback. That, combined with his quick turnaround for offering a resolution, and willingness to keep me happy, I think still merits positive feedback with the proper wording to reflect the situation (e.g. I'm not going to say "Great shipping!" because that was his big fail).

So, there you have it... Rant turned into rest.

EverythingIBM
August 31st, 2010, 01:26 PM
ncbound actually has a lot of very good items.
He usually ships small things like keyboards & mice. You should have contacted him for double packaging or something. The reason I say this: I ordered a T560 recently (not vintage!), and it came with pressure marks on the screen. Seller did refund a portion so that was nice.

Ordering monitors is tricking business on ebay.

At least it works, put a little epoxy on the crack, and you'll have a perfectly fine monitor. Although is the little badge at the top missing or something?

EddieDX4
August 31st, 2010, 02:04 PM
ncbound actually has a lot of very good items.
He usually ships small things like keyboards & mice. You should have contacted him for double packaging or something. The reason I say this: I ordered a T560 recently (not vintage!), and it came with pressure marks on the screen. Seller did refund a portion so that was nice.

Ordering monitors is tricking business on ebay.

At least it works, put a little epoxy on the crack, and you'll have a perfectly fine monitor. Although is the little badge at the top missing or something?

After communicating with him, I realize he's a very good and honest seller. I did learn my lesson and asked another seller to double pack a monitor I just orderd a couple of days ago.

Unfortunately, regarding the crack, it's not a hairline crack... The plastic actually snapped/split (bamboo style)... With a little work it can be made to not look so bad, but it still happened due to improper packaging and could have been avoided. Lesson learned for both the seller and myself.

My feedback was positive in light of his proactive offering and his legitimate concern. I also added him to my favorite sellers list because he does sell a lot of things of interest (including, as you mentioned, keyboards.....many many keyboards).

Maverick1978
August 31st, 2010, 06:34 PM
When I sell on eBay I add a $5 handling fee just for the effort of me driving to the post office and the gas to get there, heh. I don't charge a cent above the actual shipping cost for the effort of packing or the cost of packing materials - that's a given in my book.

See, I guess I'm different. I equate eBay to a yard sale, and handling fees are like the guy tossing an extra buck on each yard sale item for "table setup time." - Ridiculous in that light, isn't it?

When I sell on eBay, I figure that it's my CHOICE to sell there, taking the chance that I'll get more for selling my item on ebay than I would selling locally. I don't charge handling charges when I sell, and I don't purchase from those that do, simply because to me, the seller is already making more off of the privilege of selling on eBay than he would get locally - especially when he sells regularly, as any "loss" tends to even out with profits. I mean, if you could get as much selling an item locally as you can on ebay, then why bother to sell on ebay at all?

That said, I realize I'm in the minority :)

Dave Farquhar
August 31st, 2010, 07:00 PM
With a little work it can be made to not look so bad, but it still happened due to improper packaging and could have been avoided. Lesson learned for both the seller and myself.
Is there a part that's broken off completely that you can take to a paint store to get a match made? If you can match the color, then you'd at least be able to cover whatever glue you have to use along the crack afterward, to make it less obvious. The sheen will be a little bit different but hopefully not too noticeable.

MikeS
August 31st, 2010, 07:08 PM
See, I guess I'm different. I equate eBay to a yard sale, and handling fees are like the guy tossing an extra buck on each yard sale item for "table setup time." - Ridiculous in that light, isn't it?

When I sell on eBay, I figure that it's my CHOICE to sell there, taking the chance that I'll get more for selling my item on ebay than I would selling locally. I don't charge handling charges when I sell, and I don't purchase from those that do, simply because to me, the seller is already making more off of the privilege of selling on eBay than he would get locally - especially when he sells regularly, as any "loss" tends to even out with profits. I mean, if you could get as much selling an item locally as you can on ebay, then why bother to sell on ebay at all?

That said, I realize I'm in the minority :)Oh, I don't know; there are probably a few other folks who'd be happy to pay, say, $25 for some item, but wouldn't pay $20 + $5.00 handling (or shipping for that matter) for the same item.

If I want an item I'll pay whatever I think the item's worth delivered to my door; what difference does it make whether the seller calls it profit or handling, as long as it's clearly stated? If you'd pay $10 for that yard sale item, would you really walk if it's priced $8 + $1.00 'table setup fee'? Doesn't make sense to me.

EverythingIBM
August 31st, 2010, 07:10 PM
Is there a part that's broken off completely that you can take to a paint store to get a match made? If you can match the color, then you'd at least be able to cover whatever glue you have to use along the crack afterward, to make it less obvious. The sheen will be a little bit different but hopefully not too noticeable.

Or possibly some ABS plastic that matches to melt on. I assume it's ABS, pretty much everything IBM made was that. Later they switched to different mixtures for bezels (like in the final run of M Pros), but I laughed when the air baffles were still made of 100% ABS: probably due to the stress of heat handled.

EddieDX4
September 1st, 2010, 02:01 PM
Oh, I don't know; there are probably a few other folks who'd be happy to pay, say, $25 for some item, but wouldn't pay $20 + $5.00 handling (or shipping for that matter) for the same item.

If I want an item I'll pay whatever I think the item's worth delivered to my door; what difference does it make whether the seller calls it profit or handling, as long as it's clearly stated? If you'd pay $10 for that yard sale item, would you really walk if it's priced $8 + $1.00 'table setup fee'? Doesn't make sense to me.

Same here.. When I buy stuff on eBay, I think of the overall cost when I judge if it's worth it. If the seller explicitly wants $5 ~ $10 for handling, bringing the total to, say, $80 instead of $70, it won't make a different as long as I am willing to pay up to $80 for an item.

When I sell, though, I don't ask for a handling fee. I factor that into the price, so if I have to buy a box that's, say, $3, and bubble wrap, then I guess I ask $3 ~ $5 more for the item than I'd like to get for it by itself. This is specifically the case when using BIN.

It's all about the final cost, shipped... How that finaly cost was achieved is of little concern to me.

EddieDX4
September 1st, 2010, 02:03 PM
Or possibly some ABS plastic that matches to melt on. I assume it's ABS, pretty much everything IBM made was that. Later they switched to different mixtures for bezels (like in the final run of M Pros), but I laughed when the air baffles were still made of 100% ABS: probably due to the stress of heat handled.

Pretty sure it's ABS plastic.

I can post a picture or two to show the type of damage. I'm not a plastics expert, but perhaps someone can offer a better idea on how I could lessen the cosmetic ugliness. Stay tuned for pictures...

james1095
September 8th, 2010, 04:13 PM
UHG!! I have had many irreplaceable vintage items destroyed by piss poor packing, mostly HID lamps and other large fragle stuff. People who pack a lot of this stuff seem to have no concept of physics.

UPS has instructions right on their site. Fragile items should be double boxed ideally, and at a bare minimum need sturdy secure packing. Foam peanuts alone are NOT acceptable as they compact and the item filters down to one side of the box.

For anyone here shipping items like this, a good solution is to wrap the item tightly in at least 3" thick of the big bubble wrap, then tape securely to keep that on. Pour a layer of foam peanuts in the box, set it in, then pack more peanuts tightly around and over the item so it doesn't shift around. For something heavy like a monitor, slabs of styrofoam should be placed on all sides to cussion it. Use a *sturdy* box as well, with plenty of tape. Damage prone areas like control knobs and other things that stick out should be protected too, I often cut sections of cardboard and fold them into covers that are taped over the things that stick out.

A good solution for items valuable enough to warrant the expense is to wrap them tightly in several plastic trash bags, put a block of foam in the bottom of the box then spray expanding foam insulation around it. Set the item in and spray more foam in around all sides. Let it cure and trim off any that has expanded over the top of the box, close it up and seal it. The foam is a little spendy, but I've used it on a couple of occasions to send large heavy glass items overseas without ever having any damage.

Chuck(G)
September 8th, 2010, 04:22 PM
Pretty sure it's ABS plastic.

I can post a picture or two to show the type of damage. I'm not a plastics expert, but perhaps someone can offer a better idea on how I could lessen the cosmetic ugliness. Stay tuned for pictures...

Check with a commercial plastics place. Methylene chloride (dispensed through a large-bore syringe) is generally used to weld stuff like ABS. If you're careful, you can get it back together, replacing any small missing pieces with an auto body filler (e.g. Bondo), sand lightly and paint. The results can be quite good.

Because of the unusual color, it may be that IBM painted these things originally. Inspect the edge of broken piece carefully. If the interior color of the plastic doesn't match the surface color, it was almost certainly factory-painted.

Unknown_K
September 8th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Same here.. When I buy stuff on eBay, I think of the overall cost when I judge if it's worth it. If the seller explicitly wants $5 ~ $10 for handling, bringing the total to, say, $80 instead of $70, it won't make a different as long as I am willing to pay up to $80 for an item.

When I sell, though, I don't ask for a handling fee. I factor that into the price, so if I have to buy a box that's, say, $3, and bubble wrap, then I guess I ask $3 ~ $5 more for the item than I'd like to get for it by itself. This is specifically the case when using BIN.

It's all about the final cost, shipped... How that finaly cost was achieved is of little concern to me.

There is a difference in buying an item for $5 plus $50 shipping compared to buying something for $50 and $5 shipping if the refund does not include shipping charges if any warrenty is offered.

EverythingIBM
September 8th, 2010, 08:41 PM
There is a difference in buying an item for $5 plus $50 shipping compared to buying something for $50 and $5 shipping if the refund does not include shipping charges if any warrenty is offered.

#1 ebay shipping calculator is not always accurate.
#2 some sellers integrate a fraction of the item's price into the shipping.

EddieDX4
September 8th, 2010, 09:30 PM
Sort of an update to this story... I happened to score a "NIB" 7534 on eBay and just received it yesterday. While I'm not sure it really was new, it really is in exellent condition (complete with IBM badge and all). So now I have 2 of these. I figure I could use the new one as a source for having the other one repaired, in case they need to remold the broken part of the case to factory spec.

These monitors are great looking! I'm going to take proper pictures at some point, with the right lighting and white balance to show off their color and the screen filter. The pictures from the original eBay auction (for the first one) did not do it justice...

Unknown_K
September 8th, 2010, 10:32 PM
The original packing does help get things like monitors to you in one piece. So I can see paying extra for one with the original packaging even if the monitor is not exactly new.

Shadow Lord
September 9th, 2010, 07:46 AM
It's all about the final cost, shipped... How that finaly cost was achieved is of little concern to me.

Not true, S&H is usually not refunded so you get royally screwed if you need to return an item! To thethe seller it is a huge difference as well. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, S&H does not get included in the calculation for ebay fees.

MikeS
September 9th, 2010, 08:12 AM
Not true, S&H is usually not refunded so you get royally screwed if you need to return an item! To thethe seller it is a huge difference as well. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, S&H does not get included in the calculation for ebay fees.Good points.

Mind you, when you get it you probably know what the actual shipping cost was, so you'd have a pretty good case for demanding a refund of the actual difference.

And, at least in theory, if eBay's fee is lower then the seller could lower the price accordingly and still make the same money.

mikey99
September 16th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Sort of an update to this story... I happened to score a "NIB" 7534 on eBay and just received it yesterday. While I'm not sure it really was new, it really is in exellent condition (complete with IBM badge and all). So now I have 2 of these. I figure I could use the new one as a source for having the other one repaired, in case they need to remold the broken part of the case to factory spec.

These monitors are great looking! I'm going to take proper pictures at some point, with the right lighting and white balance to show off their color and the screen filter. The pictures from the original eBay auction (for the first one) did not do it justice...

Congrats on getting the other NIB one, I'd really be interested in seeing the pictures. I have several 5154's
but have never seen a 7534 before. If at any point you open either of those monitors please post some
good pictures of the insides too :-)

mikey99
November 16th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Please post some pictures of the 7534 EGA monitor when you get a chance.
I'd especially be interested in seeing the insides if you open the damaged
one for repair. I'm familiar with the inside of the regular 5154 and am curious
if they used the same circuit boards etc.

EddieDX4
November 16th, 2010, 06:41 PM
Please post some pictures of the 7534 EGA monitor when you get a chance.
I'd especially be interested in seeing the insides if you open the damaged
one for repair. I'm familiar with the inside of the regular 5154 and am curious
if they used the same circuit boards etc.

Hey mikey... Sorry I never followed up on this. You've given me a project for this weekend.

I will take pictures of the "good one", and open up the one with the crack to document the innards. I don't expect it to be much different than a 5154. The industrial ones have fans inside, which is nice...

Shadow Lord
January 5th, 2011, 08:04 AM
Hey mikey... Sorry I never followed up on this. You've given me a project for this weekend.

I will take pictures of the "good one", and open up the one with the crack to document the innards. I don't expect it to be much different than a 5154. The industrial ones have fans inside, which is nice...

EddieDX4,

Did u ever get a chance to post the pics of the new UNIT? The e-bay ad is gone.

EddieDX4
January 23rd, 2011, 06:58 PM
EddieDX4,

Did u ever get a chance to post the pics of the new UNIT? The e-bay ad is gone.

Just snapped a bunch of shots a few minutes ago... Uploading to photobucket and then posting on a new thread (for prosperity)... I'll link the new thread from here. :cool:

EddieDX4
January 23rd, 2011, 07:20 PM
Pictures now available on this new thread...

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?23662-IBM-7534-EGA-Industrial-Monitor-(Pictures)