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View Full Version : Tillamook on pre-SuperSocket7 systems



Raven
September 22nd, 2010, 04:33 PM
I have a Chinese Tillamook (mobile late Pentium, naturally at 266Mhz, I usually clock it at 300Mhz) that I got from eBay. It's a nice chip, but will only run quickly provided the board has the appropriate multiplier/bus. Any idea if there's a way to get or make a small interposer to change the multiplier on these manually, i.e., so I can run at 66Mhz bus x4.5 to get 300Mhz, or x4 to get 266Mhz?

Sidenote: YEAAAAH Pentium section!

Edit: It's worth noting that iirc the chip itself is designed for a 66Mhz bus with a 4x multiplier, so a 4x multiplier is doable, just a matter of if it can be hacked onto a board that doesn't support it.

deadcrickets
September 22nd, 2010, 04:49 PM
Very nice. I had always heard about them but knew nothing about them. How compatible is it truly? Various operating systems, etc.

Raven
September 22nd, 2010, 04:55 PM
Tillamook chips are typically used in laptops on removable boards. They're just another late breed of Pentiums, but typically only found on proprietary boards inside of portables. This one is just placed into a desktop "adapter" chip and set up to run that way. It's compatible with anything that any other Pentium is, but a bit quicker.

Interestingly, it's green and gold as opposed to the typical black and silver or ceramic.

Currently this chip is sitting in my 3dfx box named Voodoo (specs in my signature) and runs 98SE and games like Outlaws, MDK, Carmageddon, etc. in Glide mode.

diodenmann
September 23rd, 2010, 01:21 AM
I managed to run a Tillamook chip at 320 MHz on a Socket 5 VLB motherboard. Have a look (http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4189452&postcount=350)

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 03:16 AM
That's damn nice, but that doesn't look like a Tillamook chip - looks like a P54CS or P55C.

Either way, how did you manage an 80Mhz FSB and a 4x multiplier on such an old board?

diodenmann
September 23rd, 2010, 04:01 AM
That's damn nice, but that doesn't look like a Tillamook chip - looks like a P54CS or P55C.

Either way, how did you manage an 80Mhz FSB and a 4x multiplier on such an old board?


80 MHz is just an undocumented setting for this particular board, I played a bit with the jumpers...
Look closer at the processor. Next to the second cap from the bottom (on the right side) you can see two pins bridged by a thin wire. That's what you need to get the 4x multiplier.

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 04:07 AM
I'm afraid I can't spot the wire. :/

So you're saying that this is a trick with this specific board, right? Hrm.

Edit: I do see what could be a wire underneath the adapter below the socket, but I can't see what it attaches or what it does..

diodenmann
September 23rd, 2010, 04:27 AM
This is what I mean
http://www.abload.de/img/dscf4629cu2w.jpg[/url]

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 04:48 AM
Ahhhh... that could be done on any CPU then, yeah. What is the board set to? Does it matter?

Anywho that could get my Tillamook up to 400Mhz.. (i run in a 100Mhz bus SS7 board)

Edit: How the heck did you do that, anyway? Nice soldering iron and experience? :P

diodenmann
September 23rd, 2010, 04:58 AM
Board setting doesn't matter. I pushed my Tillamook to 460 MHz (4x115 on Gigabyte GA-5AA).
I don't know how to realize a 4.5x multiplier on these CPUs. But there must be a way, because chinese 300 MHz variants do exist...

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 05:19 AM
Do you think the below mod will work, or do you think it will unintentionally bridge traces or not make contact well enough?

The pic is very highres closeup (cropped). I stripped a twist-tie and broke a small piece off, used pliars and tweezers to bend it into place around the pins in question.. It's a tad loose, but it will stay on if I'm careful putting the CPU in.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3174/modcc.th.png (http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3174/modcc.png)

diodenmann
September 23rd, 2010, 05:28 AM
Does it still fit in the socket ? I think, you need thinner wire, which you can simply stick in between the socket holes.

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 05:33 AM
Fits in the socket fine.

Problem with the mod you did (for me) is it looks like it requires precision soldering, I have an ancient soldering iron and little skill with it.

glitch
September 23rd, 2010, 05:38 AM
Use Kynar 30 GA wrapping wire. Strip the insulation off about 1/2" of it. Insert the wire between the two holes on the /socket/. Insert the processor. Used to do this trick for people in college that had IBM R40 ThinkPads to increase processor multiplier. You used to be able to buy Kynar at Rat Shack (just look for "wrapping wire") but I don't know if they sell it anymore. It's cheap, even if you have to order some (PM me in that case, I have a ton).

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 05:39 AM
Ah - that's ingenious - I would have never thought of inserting something into the socket first, heh.

This stuff?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062640

They say "30AWG". I'm not sure if my local RS has it but if this is the stuff I'll go find out next time I'm in that area.

50' for $4 is a nice deal too, heh, last forever with that application.

glitch
September 23rd, 2010, 05:48 AM
Yep, that's the stuff. You'll probably want to get one of their wire-wrapping tools too, as it comes with a device for stripping the insulation. As one who has tried to strip 30 GA wire by hand, I can tell you it's nearly impossible to not cut the wire, and probably completely impossible to avoid knicking the wire, which will cause it to break off later.

Chuck(G)
September 23rd, 2010, 10:30 AM
I've done similar mods to Socket 370 Celerons using 30 AWG WW wire and an 0.5mm mechanical pencil as a wire-wrappig tool. Another approach that I've seen is to use some conductive copper "ink" (used for PCB repair) to bridge the pins on the chip. The benefit in that is that there's nothing sticking up to interfere with chip insertion into its socket.

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 11:09 AM
Something like this should be capable of the job then too, eh?

http://www.frys.com/product/2931025

I wasn't aware that something as convenient as this existed..

Chuck(G)
September 23rd, 2010, 01:27 PM
It should work okay--when the overclocker slocket modding was in vogue, a number of people used conductive ink to do the jumpering.

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 03:31 PM
It'll be an indeterminate amount of time before I have spare money for a trace pen like that, so I'll post back when I have said money with the results.

400Mhz Pentium here I come.. ;D

Someday I'll find a faster board (buswise) and get it up even higher...

Chuck(G)
September 23rd, 2010, 04:10 PM
The OC modders used two other things that I'm aware of--a strand from a ribbon cable conductor (~~ 34 AWG?) and some of the goo from a windshield defroster repair kit (also conductive0. Sometimes you can find the latter at dollar stores for cheap. Otherwise, the pen is probably the best idea.

Raven
September 23rd, 2010, 04:11 PM
Pen sounds safer and would be a convenient and small thing to keep in my toolbox - worth the wait. :)

Thanks for bringing it up, btw.

Tetrium
October 5th, 2010, 10:55 AM
This is what I mean
http://www.abload.de/img/dscf4629cu2w.jpg[/url]

Interesting!

Think it may work with the standard MMX chips as well?
I now also got a Tillamook 266, but it's a standard PPGA version, not the green plastic version. Haven't even tested it yet lol.

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 02:04 PM
Bout to do this mod with my new CircuitWriter pen. :D

Will post back with how it goes, ofc.

Edit:
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7748/p1010210l.th.jpg (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/p1010210l.jpg/)

First application was a tad too wide, so I used a small screwdriver to scrap the excess off and then I reapplied some to make sure it looked thick enough in the proper area.

I doubt it actually needs the 10 minutes to dry, but I'll give it to it anyway.

Oh and as you can see - my chip has no resistors there, which is why I had a hard time finding it next to the resistor before - lol - I had to just count pinholes.

Edit 2: It did absolutely bloody nothing. Still came up 300Mhz and worked as before...?????

I'm going to try different multipliers, maybe setting it to two will trigger 4..?

Neon_WA
October 5th, 2010, 03:44 PM
these may help (out of the Pentium MMX spec sheet)

the pins that had been bridge are BF0 & NC (not connected) The picture of the pins is upside down to match the Pentium orientation

as you can see from the table, the BF0 & BF1 pins set what the chip will try to boot at.

4610
4608

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 03:56 PM
After doing some math, I find that only the bottom of that chart provides an improvement, and not a 4x multiplier but a 3.5x (2 to 7 = 1 to 3.5.. 1*100=100, 3.5*100=350Mhz).

I am confused, however, as to why the mod worked for diodenmann.

I'm an electronics noob, as I've said, so.. from what I see, BF0 and BF1 need to be high, so where do I pull the voltage from, and what voltage do I use? Do I just bridge BF0 and BF1? *confused*

Is it possible that it's because I'm using Super Socket 7 instead of normal Socket 7?

Edit: I did some research on the datasheet for MMX too, and found that BF0 is internally pulled down while BF1 is internally pulled up, this means (if I'm not being an idiot) that bridging them should work.

Neon_WA
October 5th, 2010, 04:21 PM
not being a standard package, they may have done some of their own bridging work already

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 04:26 PM
I had that thought. I crossed BF0 and BF1 and am about to test that. If this still results the same I'm going to try OCing by raising the FSB. This is a very nice SS7 board and supports up to 124Mhz FSB (372Mhz). Could get to 500Mhz if it works at 4x124, so let's hope that this 4x mod try works..

Edit: Still posted at 300Mhz. I'm thinking that this wasn't a 266Mhz chip to begin with, and that no matter what I do it's locked at the multiplier to make it 266Mhz in the first place, so I can't get higher by changing multipliers.

Bottom of package is where the TCP package is mounted. It says it's a
TT266 SL2N5
78250490
i(m)(c)'92'95

Edit 2:

http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL2N5.html

Gonna try raising the bus.

Edit 3:

While going to go raise the bus, I discovered that I'm an idiot. The bus was currently set to 75Mhz this entire time, meaning my chip is already set up to do 4x out of the box and everything I tried was redundant.

Discovering this, I tried 100Mhz and it failed to post (no video). Discouraged but not beaten, I tried 83.3Mhz and it also refused to post with no video..

New board? Ideas?

Neon_WA
October 5th, 2010, 05:37 PM
New board? Ideas?

always worth a try. I have boards that wont even look at mobile chips & others happily run them.

and as for embedded pentiums thats another story as most boards think they are 486s (they have a speed step approach and boot at only 1X bus speed. They need special bios to modify the multiplier on the fly, depending on demand.)

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Unfortunately it seems I have no other boards that will go above 75Mhz. Apparently I've traded/sold away all of my SS7 boards, or never had any to begin with besides this one.

It's a (FIC iirc) VA-503+ for the future search engine ppl, btw.

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 05:46 PM
Board setting doesn't matter. I pushed my Tillamook to 460 MHz (4x115 on Gigabyte GA-5AA).
I don't know how to realize a 4.5x multiplier on these CPUs. But there must be a way, because chinese 300 MHz variants do exist...

Looks like the Chinese 300Mhz is just 75x4 - unbeknownst to me that's what I've been running, with slightly OC'd PCI, 37.5Mhz. It seems my chip is already set up for x4 multiplier and I didn't know, so I thought I was running at x3 with 100Mhz bus due to that assumption. Ironically it would have been faster for me to get an unmodified CPU at 100x3 than 75x4, and more stable due to PCI divider too.

I need to find another board, it seems, to get any higher than 300Mhz. It won't post past 75Mhz.... :/

I think I'll get a GA-5AA and see if I can replicate or beat your result. Since I'm using a mobile chip, which runs natively at 266Mhz w/ 1.8v, it should be able to go much higher with the desktop voltages.

Looks like this board supports a hell of a lot of FSB settings too - all the way up to 140Mhz.. let's imagine for a second that it works at that speed... 140*4=560Mhz Pentium I... wow.

Neon_WA
October 5th, 2010, 07:00 PM
seemly the best board around is FICs with a VIA MPV4 chipset, but they are rare as hen's teeth.
I do have some MPV3 chipset boards (not much different) but it seems the bios for FIC boards supports mobiles more than other branded boards.

limited to 83FSB, but the board I prefer to use is my aBit AX5 board, cos I can change the settings in bios rather than playing with jumpers

Raven
October 5th, 2010, 07:30 PM
http://www.anandtech.com/show/152

The VA-503+ I have been using is a MPV3. I must admit, I hate the damn jumpers in this board - like 30 of them to reconfigure everything.

Neon_WA
October 5th, 2010, 08:27 PM
I must admit, I hate the damn jumpers in this board - like 30 of them to reconfigure everything.

That why most of my test boards for my CPU collection are mainly aBit. From socket 7 up I have tested 553 out of my 1636 chips and last thing I want to do is play with jumpers especially there in some hard to get place :lol:

so if you want to try bridging pins to change the multiplier you have a few 2.8V 233MHz desktop/embedded pentums to choose from (SL293, SL2BM, SL27S)
In 1.9V mobile PPGA there is the 233MHz SL2Z3 (they come up in CPU-World forum for about $16)
Unlikely to work without a special board is the 1.9V embedded PPGA 266MHz SL2Z4 (the fastest PGA pentium Intel made)

what I would like to get embedded 266MHz BGA pentium on a PGA adaptor :-)

Tetrium
October 23rd, 2010, 05:17 AM
Bleh, my last post got lost -_-

"Unlikely to work without a special board is the 1.9V embedded PPGA 266MHz SL2Z4 (the fastest PGA pentium Intel made)"
You happen to know if these will work in a super 7 board that can supply the low voltage? Or is there another problem with this particular cpu?

Question#2: Will the pin mod posted earlier work for desktop mmx cpu's?

DrSwizz
October 23rd, 2010, 12:39 PM
Bleh, my last post got lost -_-

"Unlikely to work without a special board is the 1.9V embedded PPGA 266MHz SL2Z4 (the fastest PGA pentium Intel made)"
You happen to know if these will work in a super 7 board that can supply the low voltage? Or is there another problem with this particular cpu?

Question#2: Will the pin mod posted earlier work for desktop mmx cpu's?


I have a bunch of these CPUs and they seem to work just fine on a few regular socket 7 boards I tried them on, they are even correctly recognized by the BIOSes.
Unfortunately I never got the CPUs to work on my MVP3 Super Socket 7 boards. :-/

I

Raven
October 23rd, 2010, 04:14 PM
These low-voltage embedded and mobile CPUs will function with higher voltages provided you put cooling on them, if I'm not mistaken. I use the default voltage with my 266Mhz Tillamook that I've got OC'd to 300Mhz atm.

Given that, I'd imagine that if your board can supply the correct voltage of course it should work.

Tetrium
October 24th, 2010, 05:16 AM
And how about the pin mod on regular mmx cpu's. Will the pin mod unlock higher multi's as well?

Neon_WA
October 25th, 2010, 03:12 PM
And how about the pin mod on regular mmx cpu's. Will the pin mod unlock higher multi's as well?

yes it will work on regular mmx cpus & ODs

Raven
October 25th, 2010, 06:22 PM
Ooo it works on overdrives? I thought my Socket 5 board had hit a wall at 100Mhz, but then discovered overdrives for it (don't have one yet) that can go up to 200Mhz, but with an unlocked multi to 4x I could get 266Mhz out of it - brilliant. Of course there's also the K6 overdrives and such but I'm a bigger fan of pre-microOP CPUs.

Neon_WA
October 25th, 2010, 06:40 PM
we (cpuworld) just did a group buy on these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230538350402&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1978wt_1047

brand new, straight out of the tray
seller wont move on price.. but will reduce the shipping on multiples

Tetrium
October 26th, 2010, 12:14 AM
we (cpuworld) just did a group buy on these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230538350402&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1978wt_1047

brand new, straight out of the tray
seller wont move on price.. but will reduce the shipping on multiples

Could I be in the group buy? I'd like a couple of those!

Edit: Theres no mention of this group buy on cpuworld, or I missed it. Asmof, I try to buy multiples of cpu's so I can save on shipping costs.

Neon_WA
October 26th, 2010, 12:31 AM
sorry mate, the GB is over and I thought you had access to the group buy section
you need to ask one of the moderators if want access

Tetrium
October 26th, 2010, 12:50 AM
sorry mate, the GB is over and I thought you had access to the group buy section
you need to ask one of the moderators if want access

:(
He only ships to the US. It doesn't seem he updated his sale yet, does he have any left?
I never knew there were other forum sections. Can't ask for access to a forum if you don't know it exists. Thanks for letting me know, I'll ask someone over there

Edit: I'll try to convince the seller to sell me a couple chips. I've been looking for those for a while now.

Neon_WA
October 26th, 2010, 03:41 AM
he only ships to a verified US address, so only choice is to get John to buy some for you.

Tetrium
October 26th, 2010, 05:45 PM
So far it seems the problem might be solved.
Once the chips arrive, I'll have John send all my chips (including a whole load of P1 233's, enough for me to start testing them to see if they can really have their multi upped to x4) to me and I'll start doing some testing.
So far I can see 3 ways to short those 2 pins:
*Mod the cpu directly
*Do the U-wire socket mod
*Mod the underside of the socket, on the backside of the motherboard.

When using silverpaint, I might use some tape which I'll paint over when shorting the required pins, so in case of a failure I can remove the tape so it breaks the short.

I'm still unsure what this pin mod exactly does, causing the chip to increase it's multi to x4. Will the pinmod lock the multi at x4, causing the motherboard jumpers to not work anymore? What do I do with the motherboard jumpers? Remove them? Set them to x4 (Will need BF0, BF1 and BF2 for that)?

Raven
October 26th, 2010, 05:53 PM
You ignore the motherboard jumpers, it locks the multiplier at x4. It's BF0 and BF1 linked together, iirc, which just means putting voltage into BF0 (iirc which one it is) - it could actually come from anywhere but that pin is right next to it and not used for anything radically different (i.e., steady voltage).

max1024
October 2nd, 2016, 01:15 PM
Is it right pins?
33587

these may help (out of the Pentium MMX spec sheet)

the pins that had been bridge are BF0 & NC (not connected) The picture of the pins is upside down to match the Pentium orientation

as you can see from the table, the BF0 & BF1 pins set what the chip will try to boot at.

4610
4608

max1024
October 3rd, 2016, 10:15 AM
I have try tu run it on MVP3 MB - Aopen AX59 Pro, but can't boot Windows, and can't install new copy. System always hang or report the error. The motherboard cache of cource is off. I can only see the POST window.
http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/16/1003/s_1475518339_4418932_1abb5faac5.jpg (http://itmages.ru/image/view/4973890/1abb5faa)