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Raven
October 3rd, 2010, 01:49 PM
I have a lot of boxen that run System 7. I'm a relative noob to Mac.

I have only two Apple monitors - a 12" Color and a Portrait Grayscale. I have three adapters to hook up VGA monitors to the Macs.

I am trying to get my IIci to output 1600x1200, or really to output anything besides "default" which seems to differ based on the adapter (I imagine they all emulate different monitor signatures). The best I seem to get is either something that goes off of my modern widescreen on the bottom, or 640x480 (if my eyes are estimating the resolution properly). I have no dropdown for resolution in the monitor panel.

Is there any way to force a resolution, to get a resolution dropbox, or etc.?

I have two highres video cards for the IIci, an Apple High Resolution Display Card and an AMD-powered Apple 8-16 Video Card (I think that's what it was called).

The adapters I have.. one is unmarked, one is marked NEC MultiSync and on the back claims to support 640x480->1152x870, the last one is really nice looking and has a switch. In one position it says it supports 640x480 or 1600x1200, but the option is marked "VGA/G3" which makes me think it might only do 640x480 on older Macs and 1600x1200 on a G3 or above. The other switch position (labeled 21" Multi) claims to do 640480->1280x1024.

I'd be happy with 1024x768, tbh, as at least that doesn't look crappy on widescreen monitors (and the idea is to not have to stick another monitor on the desk atm).

Also, another question - I bought an adapter that goes in the reverse - allowing you to use a Mac monitor on a PC, and had specially bought it to try to hook up the portrait display to my machine. I couldn't get it to work at all, and this kinda pissed me off. Any idea on that?

glitch
October 3rd, 2010, 02:05 PM
I soldered together my own Mac -> VGA adapter, and the trick is getting the sense signals correct. Use this diagram:

http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/MacVideoToVGA_pinout.shtml

This diagram worked better than the others I made, and I think that's largely to the diode used to provide the "extended" sense signals and prevent triggering on a lower-resolution signal. I've gotten 1152x870 out of that circuit, so I know it works. That was with a Power Macintosh G3. I've also gotten Apple's 800-something x 600-something resolution from it with my LC II. I use the adapter on the analog VGA input on a Samsung SyncMaster 930B.

You'll find that the extra resolutions appear in the monitors dialog when the proper cable is attached. Most of the time, you need to restart with the adapter in place to get the full range of resolutions.

Raven
October 3rd, 2010, 04:13 PM
Yeah I restarted between every adapter swap and none of them presented any choices.

Is that as high as Mac Classic can go - 1152x870?

If I've got to build an adapter I'd like to make one that can do 1920x1200 or 1600x1200, if possible - I'd think that somebody would have made drivers or utilities by now to allow modern resolutions on Mac Classic, even if just for late PPC Macs like a G5 running OS8 or OS9.

According to this http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/stats/powermac_g4_1.25_dp_mdd.html

OS9 can definitely do 1600x1200, and over a digital connection can do 1920x1200, so perhaps it's possible? The real key here is how much has changed between OS7 and OS9.. I have an OS8 box I could try for this if it's not possible on OS7.

Unknown_K
October 3rd, 2010, 04:47 PM
The built in IIci video chip can do:

http://www.lowendmac.com/ii/macintosh-iici.html

•built-in 8-bit video, supports 512 x 384 and 640 x 480 at 8-bits or portrait monitor (640 x 870) at 4-bits (uses 64-320 KB of RAM for video, not separate VRAM)

You can use Nubus video cards which have resolutions from 640x480 on some models to 1600x1200 on a special rare Radius card.

www.lowendmac.com has all the information you need under the PROFILE link at the top of the site for all the old machines.

Raven
October 3rd, 2010, 04:49 PM
I am using either of two NuBus cards.

I have an "Apple High Resolution Display Video Card" and an "Apple 8•24 GC Hi-res Display Card", the latter of which having a big AMD chip and some SIMM slots on it.

According to this page (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=5422) the latter card should do 1152x870 when attached to a 21" Apple Color Display, which is what one of my adapters is mimicking, but it gives me no choice of resolution and reports the monitor as "Macintosh II Hi-res Monitor" (as do the other adapters).

Edit: Looks like the other card only supports 640x480, or else it just doesn't mention non-interlaced resolutions..
(http://support.apple.com/kb/TA40070?viewlocale=en_US)

Edit 2: Okay yeah this card is useless to me, it only supports up to 640x480. (http://lowendmac.com/video/maciihires.html)

kvanderlaag
October 3rd, 2010, 08:43 PM
I second the 832x624 - I run at that resolution on my LC III, piped through a 21.5" 1080p LCD.

Quite honestly, I don't see how upwards of 1024x768 would be usable under a 'classic' Mac OS. I have trouble using the screen space provided on the LC III under System 7, and the Classic UI gets to be really tedious at super-high resolutions. (Think 1920x1080 under OS9 - it's hard to find stuff to click!)

OS X is a significant improvement in usability at higher resolutions over Classic, and I suspect 7 would be the same.

However, as everyone has said, it's two parts in the video card (or onboard chipset) and one part in the adapter you use to get it to VGA. Mine is quite nice, and supports a wide range of resolutions, but the limiting factor in my case is the LC III itself, which only outputs up to 832x624. Conversely, I've used the same adapter on my Power Macintosh 7600 to do upwards of 1280x1204 with ease.

Raven
October 4th, 2010, 08:42 AM
Thing is I seem to have trouble with my setup(s). I have adapters that definitely handle multiple resolutions, a video card that definitely handles multiple resolutions, and a monitor that definitely handles multiple resolutions, and yet it never gives me the option of changing resolutions, even between low ones.

glitch
October 4th, 2010, 09:16 AM
Then the problem is in the converter, most likely. Many converters that claim to provide multiple resolutions fail to deliver (I've had several, and couldn't get more than 640x480 out of them). A friend of mine had /some/ luck with one of the converters with DIP switches on the outside, but I don't think he ever got what most would call "high" resolutions out of it.

The link I posted works, though. I built mine with just two D connectors, some stranded wire, and a 1n4148 diode. I think Rat Shack still carries all of that.

Anonymous Freak
October 4th, 2010, 12:28 PM
The Apple 8•24 GC should handle 1152 x 870 and is accelerated. Make sure you get the drivers! (It also has the bonus that it can accelerate any "plain" Apple 8•24, non-GC cards in the system, too.) http://lowendmac.com/ii/apple-8-24-video-card.html http://lowendmac.com/video/apple8-24gc.shtml

Also you may need the MultiSync drivers if you're running an older version of System 7.

NeXT
October 4th, 2010, 01:30 PM
1600x1200 is nuts. What on earth are you doing that requires so much space??
Normally if a mac user needed a large screen, your resolution was 1024x768 with millions of colors.
I do have one card here that does 2000xsomething (it's so bizarre, I have no idea what the hell kind of monitor it was built for but the maximum resolution is INSANE) but I don't know if it does color.

shawn510
October 4th, 2010, 02:17 PM
I have a Philips branded adapter with four dip switches that claims to be able to do up to 1152x870 emulating a Apple 21" Color monitor. I have no idea of it works better than what you already have or not.

The instructions also say, " To enable SVGA, after configuring and connetcing the monitor for VGA, open the monitors control panel and select Options, Choose Super VGA from the dialog and reboot your system."

Anonymous Freak
October 4th, 2010, 03:28 PM
1600x1200 is nuts. What on earth are you doing that requires so much space??
Normally if a mac user needed a large screen, your resolution was 1024x768 with millions of colors.
I do have one card here that does 2000xsomething (it's so bizarre, I have no idea what the hell kind of monitor it was built for but the maximum resolution is INSANE) but I don't know if it does color.

I ran an AppleShare server set to 2048x1536 on a Viewsonic 21" display connected via BNC to a Radeon 7000. That was officially "out of spec" for the monitor, but it could handle it at 60 Hz just fine. (If I used the supplied Apple DA-15 to VGA adapter, I was limited to 1600x1200.) It let me display every single AppleShare window simultaneously.

And 2048x1536 is generally the maximum analog resolution any video card will support. And MOST video cards since 2001 will support that resolution.

Raven
October 4th, 2010, 04:44 PM
It's not that I'm doing something that *requires* the space, it's that I'd like the picture to come in nice on my LCD, which has a 1920x1200 native resolution, 1600x1200 has the same vertical, and thus will be the next best thing to native.

I can't get it to display at anything but 640x480, however, using any of my adapters or video cards.

Perhaps it's the version of System 7 I was trying? I think it was 7.1, but I just shipped that system out today so, hehe, I'll need to try another. Perhaps I'll try my LC 475 and then if that doesn't do it I'll try my 6110.


I have a Philips branded adapter with four dip switches that claims to be able to do up to 1152x870 emulating a Apple 21" Color monitor. I have no idea of it works better than what you already have or not.

The instructions also say, " To enable SVGA, after configuring and connetcing the monitor for VGA, open the monitors control panel and select Options, Choose Super VGA from the dialog and reboot your system."

Yeah my biggest problem is if I go to Monitors->Options there's nothing but a list of "Mac II High-res Monitor" and no other choices, and a big blank area to the left where I imagine the resolution selection area goes.