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CP/M User
December 1st, 2005, 01:47 AM
Okay does anyone know what I can do with these WMV files once I've perfected it!?

I mean my computer has some kind of DVD burner, but it looks as though you gotta buy the softare seperate in order to use it to the full potential. Okay I'm not really interested mass producing this stuff (I heard a Burner only has a limited life - approx 400 burns per CD), but I might like to produce one for myself & produce a couple of Videos for my friends. Does anyone know what these Shareware programs are like (e.g. Alive MP3 WAV Converter, MOVAVI - ConvertMovie). The later sounds fine - but are they any good for the price I'd be getting them for.

Or is there another shareware program out there on the Net which I don't know about that someone wants to recommend.

I really just don't have the money for some of these commercial programs - which go into the hundreds of dollars.

CP/M User.

Vlad
December 1st, 2005, 03:22 AM
First, There is lots of FREE porgrams that will control bunrers. Finding one for DVD's might be a little harder though.

WMV files are Windows Media files, they won't play on DVD players, you would need to convert them to avi or mpeg.

-Vlad

Terry Yager
December 1st, 2005, 08:38 AM
If it's shareware, why not try out all of them, and pay for whichever you like the best?

--T

CP/M User
December 1st, 2005, 11:12 AM
"Terry Yager" wrote:

> If it's shareware, why not try out all of them, and pay for whichever
> you like the best?

Well I dare say I one I've seen in particular isn't quite Shareware & their generally restricted to what you can do - they like to let you know you just can't run away with their software - I'd just rather prefer get something someone can recommend.

"vlad" wrote:

> First, There is lots of FREE porgrams that will control bunrers. Finding
> one for DVD's might be a little harder though.

> WMV files are Windows Media files, they won't play on DVD players,
> you would need to convert them to avi or mpeg.

Yes, if I could convert my WMV to AVI - I'd be able to playback my movie through my Camera to the VCR (I think) - that would be good (I can playback my recorded movies doing this - but Windows Movie maker changes it to a WMV file) . I tried searching Google for "WMV to AVI" with Freeware, but it seems to return a bunch of sites of Shareware programs (with the odd Freeware program - go figure!) - I'll try Simtel.

I do recall someone doing a Freeware program which I believe burns DVDs, but the program is in Beta stage I think - I didn't want to chance it.

Anyway if anyone has other sites for some freeware which changes WMV to AVI I'd be interested to have any links.

CP/M User.

carlsson
December 2nd, 2005, 02:18 AM
I use VirtualDub (http://www.virtualdub.org/) which is freeware. It can read a lot of video formats, depending on which codecs you have installed, and write to them as well. You can use it to edit a movie, remove frames, sound, even merge two movies or insert frames, although the latter is a bit complicated. Then you re-process the movie and save it as an AVI or whatever you need. Warning, it will take a while to process a movie and you probably need plenty of hard disk space.

CP/M User
December 2nd, 2005, 02:18 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> I use VirtualDub which is freeware. It can read a lot of video formats,
> depending on which codecs you have installed, and write to them as
> well.

Okay, I'm a little confused on what codecs are. I just brought the
ConvertMovie 2.0 & while the program doesn't burn anything, it produces
files (e.g. AVIs, WMVs) into (AVIs, MPEG - VCD, SVCD & DVD). In the
AVI category I can select 8 different codecs - I was trying the different
types to see what they did - some give other options, there was Fully
Uncompressed (which takes the most space), Cinepak codec by Radius,
Intel Indeo(R) Video R3.2, Intel Indeo(R) Video 4.5, Intel IVUV codec,
Microsoft Video 1, Indeo(R) video 5.10. I want to try & copy the AVI file
which my Movie maker does on my Camera in hope to understand how to
produce the equivalent AVI to play back on - but I can't seem to. The AVI
files my camera produces also includes Sound (which I think I've got the
right settings for - but the program seems to offer different alternatives.
Here's a typical arrangement for the AVI file which my camera uses:

Image
====

Width 640 pixels
Height 480 pixels

Audio
====
Duration 0:00:15
Bit Rate: 128kbps
Audio sample size 8 bit
Audio format PCM

Video
====

Frame rate 30frames/second
Data rate 1140kbps.

When I run this through my Convert Movie program it does this:

Image
=====

Width 640 pixels
Height 480 pixels

Audio
=====

Duration 0:00:15
Bit Rate 705kbps
Audio sample size 8 bit
Audio format PCM

Video
=====

Frame rate 30 frames/second
Video sample size 24bit
Video compression Indeo(R) video 5.

I'm assuming now that with the way my Camera produces these AVI files
& the way my program produces them, there's no way of duplicating this.
Or is there?

So far the only thing I've been able to get from this program is make a
Super Video CD & play it back on my DVD. Unfortunately the resolution I
had & the resolution it was distorted - plus for some reason my
production slowed down - moving slightly jerky towards the end (effecting
the sound as well), I think this might of been a computer time out thing
interfering with it though & then correcting itself at the very end when I
came back.

So, I think in addition to this, I need a program which will Burn DVDs,
I've kinda got one on my computer, but 'am finding it difficult to operate.
Perhaps I need better assistance to get this working from a DVD chat
group.

> You can use it to edit a movie, remove frames, sound, even merge two
> movies or insert frames, although the latter is a bit complicated. Then
> you re-process the movie and save it as an AVI or whatever you need.
> Warning, it will take a while to process a movie and you probably need
> plenty of hard disk space.

Yes, I noticed the files I'm dealing with use Hundreds of Megabytes. I'm
merely some small timer just out to produce some movies from a camera
I have. My computer has 80Gb HD & I've got a few memory sticks
(512Mb each) which helps. Ultimately I'd like to get these WMV files which
I made in Windows Movie Maker & put them onto DVD so I can transfer
them to Video copies & send to my friends - nothing complicated just
some simple 5 minute stuff! I've got a funny feeling though I might need
another program to burn DVDs - I'm not sure. The programs themselves
aren't small & simply takes too long download (I downloaded the Convert
Movie which was 11Mb from School), but some of these others restrict me
from registering them at school - arrugh! :-(

CP/M User.

carlsson
December 3rd, 2005, 02:59 PM
Codecs are algorithms how data is encoded to save space. You might have heard of DivX, which is one of the most common (and efficient) video codecs. MPEG is another one (or is DivX part of MPEG?). I don't know which type of codecs a standard DVD player can read, but many players are advertised as being able to read DivX. In order to be able to code (and read) AVIs with that codec, you need to download it from www.DivX.com

Some of the other codecs are close to useless, while others may be useful in a case where you play a movie on a computer or player that doesn't support DivX. Probably your camera produced uncompressed AVIs? I don't quite know how to identify which codec a movie was saved as, but there should be some way to find out. You can set a lot of parameters about frame rate, compression rate, audio rate etc to customize the movie to your needs. I also don't know about why the resolution would be distorted, jerky and the sound out of sync.

Earlier this year I helped by boss converting some football games (!) he had recorded with a video camera to AVIs to be downloaded or burned to a CD. Although the movie did not cover a full 90 minutes, the files easily were in the size of 10 GB each before compressing with a good codec, and thus the target was < 700 MB per movie.

CP/M User
December 3rd, 2005, 05:45 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> Codecs are algorithms how data is encoded to save space. You might
> have heard of DivX, which is one of the most common (and efficient)
> video codecs. MPEG is another one (or is DivX part of MPEG?). I don't
> know which type of codecs a standard DVD player can read, but many
> players are advertised as being able to read DivX. In order to be able
> to code (and read) AVIs with that codec, you need to download it from
> www.DivX.com

Yes, I had a look into this & found quite a few. This site seems to explain
a few of them: http://www.movavi.com/codec which is where I got this
program from to write AVIs.

I downloaded a couple & I think I've found the one for which my camera used. I tried to fine tune this thing in order to reproduce one of the movie files & did with my camera - so basically AVI in & AVI out. On the output I've used this stuff:

Video codec: PICVideo M-JPEG 3 VfW Codec

I've got many settings for this thing which include:
Enable Codec
Advanced Deblocking
Assume Normalized YUV
Swap Fields
Force YUV Output

Brightness Values Between -100 to 100
Contrast Values Between -100 to 100

M-JPEG Compressor Settings
Encode Normalized YUV
<< Compression Quality >> = 8 (or ?)
Luminance Quality: 60
Chrominance Quality: 65
2 Fields If More Than 240
Swap Fields
Make Primary M-JPEG Codec (haven't been able to disable this - simply Greyed out - same as Swap Fields, however this can be selected when 2 Fields If More 240 is enabled).

Subsamping Options
1 : 1 : 1
4 : 2 : 2
4 : 1 : 1

I've found having 4 : 1 : 1 produces a file with a Data Rate option (like the files my camera produces) but for some reason I can't get it quite the same the closest is when the M-JPEG Compressor Settings is on 8 & the Luminance Quality & Chrominance Quality seem slightly adjust in values - I thought these maybe some fine tuners which can adjust the Data Rate to what it is perhaps - but I can't be definite about anything.

When this Codec is enabled - my movie files made by my camera seem to light up telling me this is the video codec used. But I even with the codec - my camera won't play the reproduced file (which kinda left me to suggest there's an element of fine tuning involved to reproduce the same file).

The other trouble I've got is the sound. The file my camera produces is a PCM sound band - 8bit which is all fine, but the bit rate is entirely different at 128kbps. I can get the frequence inbetween at 88kbps & 176kpbs, but not 128kpbs! Then I read somewhere along the lines of there being Sound codecs as well. Do you know anything about these?
I mean the program I uses calls it MPCM, so perhaps I need simply a PCM codec (if that is what they call it).

> Some of the other codecs are close to useless, while others may be
> useful in a case where you play a movie on a computer or player that
> doesn't support DivX.

The close to useless ones perhaps are specifically setout to do a specific task on a specific video set up. And like you said there's the more common ones like DivX. The MPG maybe a component of it - not too sure.

> Probably your camera produced uncompressed AVIs?

Fraid it's not that. The smallest of my files is a 15 second AVI which is 16.7Mb in size. It sounds quite large, but an uncompressed AVIs of that size I produced was well over 100Mb. I think I've got the correct Codec - the simular files I've produced in question are 15.5Mb (that sample doesn't have any sound though - think it's around 17Mb with the sound). The Data rate also increases when Sound in added too. So perhaps that's where I'm falling down (theorically I mean). There is just so much trial & error with this stuff. I've already had to defragment my working HD space as a result (wasn't too bad though) since I working at producing large files & deleting the useless ones. Having a D drive definitely helps though. Simply there for the workspace.

> I don't quite know how to identify which codec a movie was
> saved as, but there should be some way to find out. You can set a lot of
> parameters about frame rate, compression rate, audio rate etc to
> customize the movie to your needs. I also don't know about why the
> resolution would be distorted, jerky and the sound out of sync.

Yeah, I think the SVCD I produced might of had some faults with the burning process. I have known there to be issues when it comes to burning stuff. In the NTI burner I have I know it's possible to test before burning - perhaps I should have done this prior to just burning a CD.

> Earlier this year I helped by boss converting some football games (!)
> he had recorded with a video camera to AVIs to be downloaded or
> burned to a CD. Although the movie did not cover a full 90 minutes, the
> files easily were in the size of 10 GB each before compressing with a
> good codec, and thus the target was < 700 MB per movie.

Sounds pretty good for a 90 minute feature.

In addition I had some horrible thought that my Fuji camera perhaps leaves some kinda code in the files it's producing - hence a new file wouldn't have it & it wouldn't work on the camera. I mean come-on it would have to be real nasty to have figured the whole system out, only to be stopped by some minor glitch which stops the executing the file back on it - even if everything was the same. Would that be possible that is what Fuji have done? In that case I'd need a disassembler to look at the files. Know of any good Freeware disassemblers?

I mean there must be a way of duplicating a file structure?

CP/M User.

carlsson
December 4th, 2005, 12:58 PM
Wait.. you say that you want your camera to play back the movie, not your DVD player? Is your camera digital in such way that you transfer the contents as an AVI, and then you want to do something to the AVI and transfer it back to the camera? The camera used for recording the football game was all good old analogue VHS-C, and we used a digitizing TV card to capture it to file and further edit.

I think you can use most any bit rate for both sound and video, so you're not stuck to 128 kbps. The higher value, the more size the audio will take but it will also sound better (similar to MP3 music files).

With close to useless codecs, I refer to Microsoft Video 1 and alike, which seem to have been around since Windows 3.1 or at least Windows 95. Back then, computers and other equipment capable of playing video files were so limited that you probably couldn't ask for much better. These days, Microsoft have their own WMV or whatever the video format is called, and the associated codec that comes with Media Player 9+ is actually quite efficient compared to the other top players. Of course, it requires that you have installed the Media Player 9+ and corresponding codec, so on DVD players, Macs and all other types of equipment which would play AVI or other video formats, it may be futile to try to play a WMV.

No idea if your camera encodes the movies you record. Probably it is not meant for generic playback of movies though? *scratch head*

CP/M User
December 4th, 2005, 02:07 PM
"carlsson" wrote:

> Wait.. you say that you want your "camera" to play back the
> movie, not your DVD player?

Well, yeah, I've got two options. At the moment I'm stuck on the DVD
side - until I get some program (e.g. NTI CD & DVD Maker, Nero, Sonic
<somthing-a-rather>, etc) which can burn DVDs. I've discovered that my
copy of NTI is simply limited - it can burn various CDs no worries & has
provisions for DVD burning, but are disabled until I pay for the program).
Since Christmas is coming it won't be for some-time until I can save up &
get some money for such a program. Unfortunately earlier on I wasn't
sure what the circumstances were & thought I could burn DVDs - but
things have changed & I have a clearer understanding as to where I'm at.
Unfortunately it doesn't help cause I made a movie I wanted to get out to
my friends tomorrow - unfortunately that won't happen (or at least I don't
think it will).

> Is your camera digital in such way that you transfer the contents as an
> AVI, and then you want to do something to the AVI and transfer it back
> to the camera?

Yeah all it is, it's not a stock standard Video Camera, just some Digital
Camera (for the still photos - which allows me to do movies - with
Sound), in which I can playback the movies I've recorded (complete with
sound). Some Digital Cameras don't have this Video Output which I speak
of, but mine does & it allows me to connect it (via a set of AV plugs - one
for the Audio & one for the Sound) to a TV or any other device (e.g. VCR)
which can transfer the contents to VHS tape.

> The camera used for recording the football game was all good old
> analogue VHS-C, and we used a digitizing TV card to capture it to file
> and further edit.

Yeah, much different camera, specifically used for events & stuff.
Unfortunately I don't have one of those. I just thought it would be great to
manipulate a file, sent it back into the format it uses & start recording to
VHS Video. Cause on my camera your confined to the upto 14.6 minutes
of movie making (if your using the lowest resolution with a 512Mb card).
The camera itself supports two resolutions 320x240 & 640x480) the
higher resolution offerning less time of course (from 14.6min to 7.4min),
frame rate is constant at 30 frames per second.

The only clue I got about the Codec it uses was in the back of the
camera's manual where it talks about Motion JPEG (or M-JPEG I believe)
which describes it as a type of AVI - from there I had a hunch it was this
type of Codec being used for the movies it makes. Have made many
attempts experimenting with this & have produced stuff which seems to
be a duplicate (excluding the sound) with used simular amounts of file
space to the original made by the camera.

> I think you can use most any bit rate for both sound and video, so
> you're not stuck to 128 kbps. The higher value, the more size the audio
> will take but it will also sound better (similar to MP3 music files).

I think for my camera though, it maybe a case of the camera only
knowing one type 128kbps. There's not a great deal this camera has to
offer with sound, but it works & sounds fine. Another rate (e.g. 88kbps
which is poor still & 176kpbs obviously slightly better quality than the
camera's) could be well definitions which my camera doesn't reconise &
returns a read error, however I'm suprised that using no sound hasn't
solved this either. The sound also seems to alter the Data Rate which
maybe another factor. Another test I might try will try & record a movie
using my folks camera (which has no sound) & play it back on my
camera - to see if it supports - but I guess it could so easily use
something else which may throw it off - the manual does suggest that
there maybe incompatabilities with movie made between cameras.

> With close to useless codecs, I refer to Microsoft Video 1 and alike,
> which seem to have been around since Windows 3.1 or at least
> Windows 95. Back then, computers and other equipment capable of
> playing video files were so limited that you probably couldn't ask for
> much better. These days, Microsoft have their own WMV or whatever
> the video format is called, and the associated codec that comes with
> Media Player 9+ is actually quite efficient compared to the other top
> players. Of course, it requires that you have installed the Media Player
> 9+ and corresponding codec, so on DVD players, Macs and all other
> types of equipment which would play AVI or other video formats, it
> may be futile to try to play a WMV.

Yeah, when it comes to a time where I'll just burn a DVD, I'll use my
Output file which ConvertMovie produces & burn that to DVD. The AVI
business, codecs & WMV files will only be used if I can produce a file
compatable to playback through my digital camera - to VCR.

For the DVD I've produced a DVD compatable file (using Convertmovie)
which will be supported on DVD players. If I haven't worked out the other
stuff, then I'll connect my DVD video & sound output into my VCRs AV
inputs to record it to VHS. It's merely another option I can use when I get
a proper burner program for making DVDs (sometime in 2006 I shall
think).

> No idea if your camera encodes the movies you record. Probably it is
> not meant for generic playback of movies though? *scratch head*

Well yeah, there are many variables to this. And as I said earlier the
camera maybe producing the correct codec which I have, but the new file
may need some header which the camera uses to determine if it's been
made on that camera. You know how you might say try running a
windows program in raw DOS & it sends a little message saying "Requires
Microsoft Windows to operate" or something along those likes. This
camera could so easily be using something like this simply to determine if
it's a valid movie file - unfortunately in this situation the file I'm producing
maybe correct.

Ron Starc
April 28th, 2015, 05:32 AM
Try DVD Author Plus. It will convert and burn your WMV file to a video DVD (http://www.deskshare.com/dvd-authoring-burning-software.aspx). The trial version allows you to burn up to 5 DVD's.