PDA

View Full Version : Anybody here actually collect Unix stuff?



ahm
December 5th, 2005, 07:28 PM
If so, what do you have?
And what are you looking for?

Personally, I'm looking for the source code to an old game called "gebaca"
(GEt Back At Corporate America). Apparently, the author no longer has any copies.
I understand it used to be available from the "Unix Toolchest".
Perhaps someone has archived that site?

Thanks.

shattered
May 17th, 2016, 09:53 AM
http://yahozna.dyndns.org/computers/software/3b2/blit/gebaca.m.gz

That's the first thing I am going to try running on the emulated 5620 (http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?51324-AT-amp-T-3B2-Emulator-Still-working-on-it!/page2) :-)

glitch
May 17th, 2016, 10:33 AM
I do, mostly on PDP-11 hardware but I've recently obtained a copy of System V/386 UNIX with the X10 drivers for the Blit Express (along with a Blit Express). Haven't set that up yet, though I did recap the monitor for the Blit Express and get it going with the DOS demo programs.

Unknown_K
May 17th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Does Apple A/UX count?

Oh and a Sun Ultra 5 running Solaris.

commodorejohn
May 17th, 2016, 12:09 PM
I dabble in it a little (currently got a Sun Blade 2000 that I need to get some software loaded onto, plus a couple HP 9000 workstations - an '040-based 425t and a PA-RISC 712, both of which still need an operating system loaded.)

ClassicHasClass
May 17th, 2016, 04:11 PM
Well, this is quite a gravedig.

But, since we're posting, I like RISC machines with weird architectures and many tend to run Un*xy things.

billdeg
May 17th, 2016, 04:47 PM
I have the at&t Unix pc

SpidersWeb
May 17th, 2016, 07:03 PM
I currently have an IBM RT/135 running AIX, and I have an AT&T 3B2-400 - but I think I have a fault with the HDD controller on the 3B2

NeXT
May 17th, 2016, 11:14 PM
I have a few machines from Sun but my specialty is from Silicon Graphics. I have quite a few of their machines.

Edited: Holy crap this thread is 11 years old! :bigeyes:

afhp
May 18th, 2016, 04:53 AM
I collect the machines that I used to dream of back in time, most of them being unix workstations...
Unfortunately I don't actually use them as much as I'd like to.

Sun Ultra 60, in need of an NVRAM replacement ;
Sun Blade 2000 ;
NeXT slab (non-working)
IBM IntelliStation Power285 (recent acquisition, and I know next to nothing of the hardware or AIX. This is going to be fun)

Someday I'd like to get my hands on SGI stuff like an Indigo or a Crimson, but that's unobtainium around here.

SiliconClassics
May 19th, 2016, 03:11 AM
As a kid I was fascinated with 3D animation and dreamed of having an O2 with Softimage. Now I've got a bunch of SGI and Sun workstations - a deskside Onyx & Crimson, an Indigo, an O2, and I2, an Octane, and a few Indys. Also have a Sparc 10, 20, and IPX. The SGI machines are more interesting, but the Suns are better built. Someday I'd like to make a YouTube retro UNIX pizzabox shootout that compares the Indy to the Sparc20.

pski
May 19th, 2016, 05:17 AM
I collect the Tandy TRS-80 Model 16 and it's decendents the Model 16B and 6000. These machines ran TRS-XENIX which was an adapted version of XENIX for the MC68000 sub-system found in these computers. The 16 and 16B had a 6Mhz CPU and ran TRS-XENIX 1.0, which was mostly Unix v7 but also incorporated some features of Unix System III and BSD Unix, such as the vi editor. The later Tandy 6000 has an 8Mhz CPU and supported TRS-XENIX 3.x which incorporated most of Unix System III functionality.

ScutBoy
May 19th, 2016, 10:31 AM
Sunblade 2000
NeXT Cube and NeXT Slab
Couple of Indys and O2s, Indigo and Indigo2
Sun Voyager and Sparc 20
3B2/310 with a 5620DMD
A/UX and MachTen on some Apple gear

Probably stuff I'm forgetting :)

brassicGamer
June 15th, 2016, 06:02 AM
I find that, because they're workstations, these machines are not sought after. Most people have never seen Sun hardware, let alone used it. Most computer collectors tend to seek out the stuff they used in the past, particularly the hardware they used when they were teenagers or kids. I don't know many people who have fond memories of using a Sun workstation during the summer hols. Maybe some did at their parents' workplace or something but, even then, how much gaming was done? Also, UNIX hardware tends to come from big institutions, governments and multinational tech firms. Without a known use for them in a domestic context, very few employees would ask to take something that was being thrown out, and very few tech departments would offer them. So all this stuff slips under the radar and into the greasy hands of the recyclers.

I ended up with my Sun SPARCstation 5 by accident really. I used Solaris once on a UNIX sysadmin course at uni and was always curious about it. So when I saw a local ad for free Sun hardware, I snapped it up. Also got an Ultra 30 with the Creator 3D card, but it was dead so I had to wave goodbye to that beast. I'm running NeXTSTEP on the SPARCstation for the fun of it, but am considering moving to Solaris and running a Quake server for my retro computing LAN :)

KG7PFS
August 1st, 2016, 06:32 PM
I'm into 8-bit stuff myself, not exactly what most of you are thinking of, but some of you might be shocked to learn how much 8-bit Unix stuff there is.

My favorite is the Tandy Color Computer 3. Not well known because it's predecessor stuck with early 80's hardware through the mid 80's, the CoCo 3 completely blows away the competition (Atari 130XE, Commodore 128, Apple IIc, even the IIgs) because it just happened to use the Microware (not Macintosh) OS-9 operating system. It starts up in disk basic like everything else, but insert a floppy and type DOS and it comes up in an only slightly non-standard Unix. There are utility packages that add more standard Unix commands, lots of applications,and an optional GUI, but what's most amazing, FULL MULTITASKING!!! That's right, five years before a 640k Commodore 128 could even have two GEOS windows open, the 512k CoCo 3 could have up to eight, a GUI as good as GEOS, and four users at once. Of course pushing it's limits like that slowed it down, but just playing Koronis Rift while downloading from Compuserve at the same time, while someone else copied a spreadsheet to the Model 200 was pretty amazing.

Today, the HD6309 CPU and NitrOS-9 OS upgrades make it much faster.

Unix clones and variants are now available for the Apple IIgs, Commodore 64, and probably many others, so if you have trouble finding the 68000 or ARM systems from the good old days, try something that was a little closer to home. There is probably a Unix of some kind for whatever you used to use.:)

Of course, the 65802 and 6809 are not 68000's, but isn't the challenge of pushing the supposed limits a huge part of the fun of retrocomputing?

Chuck(G)
August 1st, 2016, 07:47 PM
But the 8 bit stuff isn't Unix, is it? It's a Unix look-alike.

In other words, if I read off my AT&T SysVR4 tapes, you couldn't compile them for the 6502, could you?

ClassicHasClass
August 2nd, 2016, 08:24 AM
Nope.

glitch
August 2nd, 2016, 09:25 AM
But the 8 bit stuff isn't Unix, is it? It's a Unix look-alike.

In other words, if I read off my AT&T SysVR4 tapes, you couldn't compile them for the 6502, could you?

Do you know where Cromemco CROMIX fits in there? I suspect it's largely a workalike, not API compatible. That'll run on a Z80 or 68K system.

commodorejohn
August 2nd, 2016, 11:09 AM
Do you know where Cromemco CROMIX fits in there? I suspect it's largely a workalike, not API compatible. That'll run on a Z80 or 68K system.
Wikipedia describes it as "Unix-like," so I'd bet you're right.

lowen
August 3rd, 2016, 09:47 AM
There's always Morrow's Micronix, which had a complete enough API-compatibility that the Bourne shell, once compiled, would run ok.

Chuck(G)
August 3rd, 2016, 10:04 AM
There were other 8-bit multiuser systems. From a utility standpoint, I don't think that Unix was a good model for the very small systems, at least not in the business world. We got a whole lot more mileage by simply integrating mutli-user features into our BASIC runtime. When we ported the whole thing to Xenix running on a 6 MHz 80286, we found there was virtually no performance gain over a 5 MHz 8085 version. Given the cost of the extra hardware, that was a little disappointing.

lowen
August 3rd, 2016, 11:44 AM
Frank Durda has written at length about the kluge that was Xenix/286. Xenix/68K, as used on the Lisa and the Tandy 6000, was quite a bit more efficient. The archives of comp.sys.tandy should be consulted......

MP/M worked ok, and there were other good systems for 8bitters that weren't Unix or Unix like, but the smallest efficient Unixlike OSes are possibly best exemplified by Coherent.

I never ran Cromix or Micronix (or for that matter MP/M) so I can't comment on their speed, but I can comment that Xenix/68K on the Tandy 6000 was fairly responsive and had good multiuser performance for the day. But that wasn't an 8-bit OS, either, but 32-bit (while one may argue that the 68000 and 68010 were 16-bit by virtue of the size of the data bus, the OS bittedness is a completely different matter, as the registers and opcodes are 32-bit and in principle the same code could run on the definitely 32-bit 68030).

Of the modern 8 bit CPU's, an ATMega2560 or similar (the ATmega128 especially) should be able to have enough RAM to run a real Unix, at least something in the Seventh Edition (V7) timeframe, or 2.11BSD maybe. SVR4 not likely, but the Seventh Edition is just as much real Unix as SVR4 is. But FreeRTOS or even the Ethernut's NUT/OS is a better choice (NUT/OS runs on ATmega128 AVR hardware).


EDIT: Also there was UZI, UZI180, UZI280, and UZIX for the MSX, all Z80-based. And I mis-stated above that Micronix was able to run the Bourne shell; it was UZIX 2.0 that did that, sorry.

Further EDIT: Apparently all the UZIX and UZI versions have been fused together as 'FUZIX' and it is available at https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX and it apparently has gone past V7 features into SysIII and SysV territory.

AmigaJules
August 8th, 2016, 02:14 PM
My "holy grail" is an AT&T PC 7300 that I try on-again, off-again to get working. I have all of the AT&T Unix documentation and disks with it.

It has an issue somewhere in the RAM circuitry, based on the diagnostic LEDs. I tried the shotgun approach of replacing all RAM but the error is still there.

Some day when I have time I plan to get one of these and learn to troubleshoot at the circuit level: http://www.bitscope.com/product/

MCbx
August 8th, 2016, 04:08 PM
Nothing intentional, I try to narrow my collection to 8-bit ones, but if it literally comes to my hands, why not?
So I have:
- Sun SPARC 20, awaits diagnosing,
- Sun Ultra1, working, with NVRAM machined and CR2032 installed in it.
- IBM "Power Series 850" in a desktop casing, installed and dual-booted NT4 and OS/2 here. It's like RS/6000
- IBM "ThinkPad 850" notebook (architecture is RS/6000), with WinNT on external SCSI drive (internal 2.5" SCSI hard disk is missing, but I bought ADTX module, just in case),
- Some old SuSE Linux server OS in original box. I don't even remember version.

@AmigaJules
Few years ago I bought 8-channel Saleae clone. I use it rarely, usually when reverse engineering protocols, for diagnostics I still use old good TTL probes. Well, if I had >24 channels maybe I could use it to dump EPROMs in circuit by sniffing the states?

ClassicHasClass
August 9th, 2016, 06:45 AM
Ah, so you've got OS/2 PowerPC. How well does it work on that machine? (Keeping in mind it's a hacky prototype, naturally.)

I have one of the Type 6020 "ThinkPad 800" systems, but it runs AIX, as G-d and possibly IBM intended. ;)

MCbx
August 10th, 2016, 02:45 PM
Works? Better say crashes. It's hard to make it do any simple job without strange errors, a nasty pop-up console with error or just freeze.
In OS/2 for PPC, there is a collection of undocumented, binary-only, unfinished hacks. For example, typical way to dual-boot WinNT is to use ARC. It is not possible to hook OS/2 up into it, so I use just 2 SCSI drives and boot menu. Some time ago while trying not to crash the system wandering on a hard disk I found a boot manager "prototype". This early OS/2 has its boot manager hidden as some EXE in a hidden directory, which of course doesn't work at all because it's something like ARC loader terribly "linked" to executable (not in definition of program linking, more like "I'll recompile it as exe and see will it launch from double-click") which should be probably executed from partition, which does not exist in design used to boot OS/2. Last time I analyzed it 2 years ago, but such things persists in my memory.

AIX in these computers is a really good OS. It has CDE, which is very ergonomic if only screen resolution is big enough, and in fact i18n in AIX has been done much better than Linux (speaking about console level, not GUI yet it's still better than recently open-sourced CDE). It's not visible for English users, but in AIX installed with different language many things have been translated and programs use error codes to avoid problems with troubleshooting multiple language systems.

pkhoury
September 22nd, 2016, 10:08 PM
If so, what do you have?
And what are you looking for?

Yup. Besides early IBM PC's and PS/2s, I collect older Sun workstations. Currently, I have a Sun 2/120, 3/60, 3/50 without the monitor, Sparc 5 and 20, and UltraSPARC 2. I'd love to find another Sun 2, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon. I used to have a framebuffer for it and that's long gone. Last I checked, it still boots up.

**EDIT** - Once upon a time, I had an IBM RS/6000 that never worked. Right now, I own 3 of 'em (circa 2002/2003, but not sure if that's still vintage). Also had some older HP PA-RISC workstations, a DEC Multia that I never got around to installing IRIX/VMS on. Once had the chance to acquire a Next workstation and an AT&T UNIX PC, but didn't. Anything vintage and UNIX, I'm interested in.

cb88
December 3rd, 2016, 10:46 AM
I've seen a couple of your guys elsewhere (vintage mac stuff etc..)

I have an sick *cough/sneeze* SE/30 that should run AUX as well as an 040 accelerator for it that I haven't tried yet. A Plus and Powerbook 190.

AT&T Unix PC 3B1 (the enhanced model of the 7300) I have no disks but I do have a floppy disk emulator I intend to use to shelp disks between it and my workstation. I've also had ruminations of building a clone of the ethernet card out of surplus components for it.

I have a fairly vast Sun4c/Sun4m/Sun4d/Sun4u + a T2000 that hosts http://gh0stwriter.net . The complete list would be 2x SS2 one of which works and has a weitek powerup with Redhat 6.2 installed. SparcStation LX with my custom spun gentoo installed from a few years back (derived from Magnus Lindholms work and suggestions), SS5 I think it has NetBSD on it but i haven't booted it in years it is a 70Mhz model. 2x SS10 which are functional but not setup to run at the moment, SS20 + 512MB ram + dual SM81 + extra fans this was also running my gustom gentoo install but it kept crasing when emerging. I'm going to have a go at using pkgcore at some point instead of portage to work around that python exception. 2x SS1000 and an SS1000E none of which boot at the moment I think they all need PSU rebuilds I have one rebuild in progress.

Oh and my Sparcbook 3GX running OpenBSD 4.5... its pretty sweet. I want to 3d print a case similar to it and put something more modern in it with a keyboard like the Powerbook 1400 has.

C128 + 1541UII upgrade (I haven't gotten this working as well as I would like.... interfacing these to newer TVs is a pain), there are supposed to be some almost Unix like operating systems for C64 I might play around with that someday.

I also have a Brother Opus Typewriter, Blue-Chip daisywheel printer (made for C64 which I intend to get working with a serial adapter but haven't had much success), and an ImageWriter II. Also while on non unixy stuff.. I have a Connectix Quikcam B&W model... which works with the Powerbook 190 its pretty neat.

ScutBoy
December 3rd, 2016, 03:45 PM
2x SS1000 and an SS1000E none of which boot at the moment I think they all need PSU rebuilds I have one rebuild in progress.


I'd love to have an SS1000/SS1000E again. That's "one that got away" that I wish I had back...

I still have a bunch of RAM for those if you think you need some.

I _may_ have the software set for the 3B1. I used to herd those back a long time ago. If you need me to dig, let me know.

Chuck(G)
December 3rd, 2016, 06:27 PM
Back in the day, just before SysV, there were a number of "minicomputer-ish" micros based on the 68K. Plexus is one that comes to mind. Anyone have one of those? (Plexus was actually peddling those as alternatives to a VAX!). How about some of the WE minis, say a 3B5? (3B2 doesn't count)

Forgot to mention that there are various ports of Unix to PIC32. Here's one of 4.4BSD (https://github.com/sergev/LiteBSD/wiki) on a PIC32MZ CPU.

m_thompson
December 8th, 2016, 07:31 AM
Yup. Besides early IBM PC's and PS/2s, I collect older Sun workstations. Currently, I have a Sun 2/120, 3/60, 3/50 without the monitor, Sparc 5 and 20, and UltraSPARC 2. I'd love to find another Sun 2, but I doubt that'll happen anytime soon. I used to have a framebuffer for it and that's long gone. Last I checked, it still boots up.

I also have a Sun 2/120, 2/50, several 3/50, several 3/60, a 3/110, 3/460, 3/470, 4/260, 4/470, SS1000E, SS2000E, lots of IPC, IPC, and LX including RDI luggables made from those motherboards, SPARCbooks, some Voyagers, and a bunch more SPARC servers.

MrArgent
December 10th, 2016, 08:51 PM
I seriously wanna get my hands on a AT&T 3B2 or a UNIX PC someday, myself.

MattisLind
December 11th, 2016, 02:57 AM
Back in the day, just before SysV, there were a number of "minicomputer-ish" micros based on the 68K. Plexus is one that comes to mind. Anyone have one of those?

There were also a few that were based on the Z8000 in the same era. I still have the Zilog S8000/21 that I bought from a defunct company in the mid 80ies. The machine had a broken tape drive and an EPROM with bit rot. But after fixing that it served me well getting mail over uucp and things like that. It ran ZEUS which was System III derivative.

Olivetti also had a machine based on Z8000 and then there were eastern block DDR clones with Z8000. Maybe there were more?

Stone
December 11th, 2016, 04:18 AM
I have The vi User's Handbook in mint condition if anybody's interested in it.

It is the 1st edition Copyright © 1984.

http://www.alibris.com/VI-Users-Handbook-AT-T-Bell-Laboratories/book/23809016 (http://www.alibris.com/VI-Users-Handbook-AT-T-Bell-Laboratories/book/23809016)

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xfa1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e35/11918051_862113600533872_2033097512_n.jpg

The above pic is not of my copy; as I mentioned the one I have is mint. If you're interested and want a pic of the actual book I will supply one.

Chuckster_in_Jax
December 11th, 2016, 07:48 AM
AT&T 3B2\400
DEC Multia VX40 (166Mhz Alpha)
HP 98561A (9000/310)
HP 98579B (9000/370)
HP 9000/382
HP Apollo 735
HP C240 PA-RISC
HP Visualize C3700
HP Integral PC
IBM PowerServer 220
IBM RS/6000 7009-26 (C10)
IBM RS/6000 7012-380
IBM RS/6000 E20 7024 PowerPC 604 133Mhz Tower
IBM RS/6000 E30 7024 PowerPC 604 133Mhz Tower
IBM RS/6000 F30 7025
IBM RS/6000 7043 (43P-140)
IBM RS/6000 44p Model 7044-170 400MHZ
SAIC Galaxy 1100 Portable Workstation (PA-RISC)
Silicon Graphics Personal Iris
Silicon Graphics Iris Indigo
Silicon Graphics Indy Cyclone
Silicon Graphics Indigo2
Silicon Graphics Octane
Silicon Graphics O2
Sun Ultra 80 Elite 3D

ClassicHasClass
December 11th, 2016, 08:11 AM
Ah, the Galaxy 1100. Nice machine, mil-spec. Mine suffered some physical damage and I was unable to repair it :(

The RDI PrecisionBook I have now satisfies my portable PA-RISC, er, needs.

Chuckster_in_Jax
December 11th, 2016, 08:46 AM
Ah, the Galaxy 1100. Nice machine, mil-spec. Mine suffered some physical damage and I was unable to repair it :(

The RDI PrecisionBook I have now satisfies my portable PA-RISC, er, needs.

That RDI PrecisionBook is a really nice machine too!

The RISC laptop/portables including the IBM RS/6000 860 are rare commodities these days.

m_thompson
December 11th, 2016, 11:01 AM
IBM RS/6000 7043 (43P-140)

That one will run Solaris.

bear
December 11th, 2016, 12:20 PM
That one will run Solaris.

Unlikely. The only supported models are 6015, 6040, 6042, 6050, 6070, and 7248. The 7043's resemblance to the 7248 is only skin-deep, and Solaris can't cope with a PPC604e at all. If you install the 604e upgrade into a 7248, the kernel crashes pretty much immediately.

firebirdta84
January 2nd, 2017, 10:51 PM
I know I'm late to the party here, but I'll jump in with my collection of UNIX restorations and favorites:

Convergent Technologies MightyFrame
AT&T Unix PC

I'm interested in any and all parts/programs for the above 2 machines, but particularly the MightyFrame, since that seems to be the rarest.

Rarer still seems to be the

Convergent Technologies MiniFrame

If anyone has remaining hardware for the MiniFrame, I'd love to see some.

Best of luck on everyone here with their UNIX Collections and restorations!
-AJ
http://MightyFrame.com

ClassicHasClass
January 3rd, 2017, 02:40 AM
Always found Convergent systems interesting. I just have a Workslate, though.

lowen
January 8th, 2017, 04:01 PM
...Also there was UZI, UZI180, UZI280, and UZIX for the MSX, all Z80-based.

As Paul Harvey would say, in our 'for what it's worth' department, the following:

SMC IO chip identified (FDC37C665GT): configuring
ROM v5.7 Dated: 01 Oct 2014 CPU clock: 16.000MHz
RAM available: 1024kB. From 00000 to FFFFF
ROM shadowed into 1st 32kB



Z80 Series ROM-Resident Debugger V1.06: D-X Designs Pty Ltd 1997
Special P112 Version: Interrupts Supported
Type '?' for help

=
=Z
Loading UZI...
UZI180 version 1.6.2 built Sun Feb 4 21:02:09 CET 2007
Copyright (c) 1998-2002 by H.F.Bower, D.Braun, S.Nitschke, H.Peraza
1024kB total RAM, 960kB available to processes (15 processes max)
Mounting root fs: OK
init version 0.9

Welcome to UZI180 on /dev/tty1 (Z180)

login: root
Password:

Have fun!

Sun Jan 8 19:46:16 2017
/root # ls
life
makedevs
red
/root # ls /bin
cat
chgrp
chmod
chown
cp
cut
date
dd
df
echo
ed
false
fsck
kill
ll
ln
ls
mkdir
mkfs
mknod
more
mount
msh
mv
passwd
pwd
reboot
rm
rmdir
ssh
su
sync
touch
true
umount
/root #


It's more than a bit gratifying to watch a Unix-clone booting (off of a 1.44MB 3.5 inch HD floppy drive!) on hardware you built yourself, even if it is a kit like the P112. A real joy to build.

pkhoury
January 8th, 2017, 05:10 PM
That's pretty cool. TCP/IP off that floppy too? Reminds me of that nifty QNX demo disk that was released back in the mid 90s (TCP/IP, GUI and all off a single disk).

lowen
January 8th, 2017, 05:28 PM
That's pretty cool. TCP/IP off that floppy too? Reminds me of that nifty QNX demo disk that was released back in the mid 90s (TCP/IP, GUI and all off a single disk).

No, no networking in UZI180. I haven't built fuzix yet, but when it gets networking it will get really interesting. I'm waiting on a D-GIDE from Terry Gulczynski before I attempt a fuzix install.

This is about as old-school feel as you can get, with the only editor in the system being ed. I think I have more binaries built for UZI280, but I don't have my CPU280 fully operational yet.

Actually, I felt a whole lot like I was back on the Tandy 6000 with Xenix. Xenix System III on the T6K (8MHz 68K with 1MB RAM) was about the same speed as the P112 (Z80182 at 16MHz and 1MB RAM), and also text-only.

angrytrilobite
February 1st, 2017, 04:50 AM
Hello,

I just signed up to ask about a laptop I found in a box. It is a Tadpole Sparcbook 3gx. It does not have a battery or hard drive. I also found a battery charger (empty) and a Series 3 User manual. Is this thing worth anything or useful to anybody? It is heavy duty and looks like it was not used very much. I am doing an office clean-out and trying to determine if I should just recycle it with the old NT machines. Thanks.35835

Juror22
February 7th, 2017, 10:53 AM
I'm not a Sparc fanatic (more into HPUX and AIX machines), but just getting to a few websites and finding this has a microSparc processor, makes me think that it would be of use to someone here. I found this by accident and I am thinking that you should offer it on the marketplace page to get a wider circulation among those in the know. I would NOT just scrap it. I would pay you a little more than the shipping, packaging, just to save it and like I noted, I'm not into Sparcs, someone that is might be able to do better.

Oh, and if you come across an IBM RISC laptop, I would be VERY interested in that!
Thanks for posting this unique opportunity for the Solaris folks.

commodorejohn
February 7th, 2017, 01:12 PM
Yeah, that's definitely of interest to some people here. You can also ask over on Nekochan (http://forums.nekochan.net/search.php?search_id=unreadposts) where there's a lot of RISC Unix nerds.

ClassicHasClass
February 7th, 2017, 10:27 PM
Definitely don't junk it. If I didn't have a couple SPARC laptops already I'd make an offer myself.

angrytrilobite
February 23rd, 2017, 06:34 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I just also found two Sparcstation10 machines, GDM-1962B displays, keyboards/mice, and cables. Damn those displays are heavy. Where would I list them to find a home. My dock full of old stuff is getting picked up on Tuesday the 28th.3645736458364593646036461

GanjaTron
July 18th, 2018, 03:52 PM
This thread seems to be idle, but I'll give it a shot... Somebody here mentioned owning an SGI Crimson: any idea where I can get a spare GE8? Mine died. Kinda makes the whole thing pointless as a server... :(

Thx for any info,

--GT

itsvince725
July 19th, 2018, 04:55 PM
I have two SGI machines (Indy R5000 and Indigo2 R4400) and a SPARCStation IPC but right now only the Indy works.

Chuck(G)
July 19th, 2018, 05:09 PM
I've got the AT&T SysVR4 9-track tapes, if anyone's interested. Some of them may have been used to set up UCBerkeley's "Ernie"--I'm not sure.

2icebitn
July 19th, 2018, 08:17 PM
I do not. I do own 2 Indy's and most of an Impact 10000. Anyone need parts?

billdeg
July 23rd, 2018, 05:54 PM
Not sure where you're located but I have a 10000 that runs but has seen better days if you have any repair parts I can use them. I have a lot of spare Indy parts already.
I have been working on an Octane lately, this at the moment is my favorite SGI.

ClassicHasClass
July 24th, 2018, 08:31 AM
It's interesting how beloved the Octanes are. My personal favourite is the Fuel (and the Indy purely for nostalgia, since I actually used one back in the day, mostly for a lot of sgidoom), but I'll be the first to acknowledge its deficiencies.

bear
July 24th, 2018, 09:42 AM
I don't know, I find it difficult to like the Octane. It has a lot of capability, sure, but the form factor kind of sucks. I think my favorite is the Indigo.

eeguru
July 24th, 2018, 10:04 AM
Aside from SVR4/386 which runs on several dozen machines I have:

AT&T 3B2/310
AT&T 3B2/400 (x4)
AT&T 3B2/600
AT&T 3B2/1000-80
AT&T PC7300
Tandy TRS-80 Model 16B
Sun Enterprise 3500
Sun Enterprise 420R
Several pizza box and IPC/IPX Suns
Sun Ultra 10

I guess technically the Tandy runs XENIX and the Sun's originally ran SunOS/Solaris derivatives (and still do).

Still looking for a 3B2/500 or 522 to round out the set. As I sort through the 400s, I'll probably sell the extras. Also looking for a nice Alpha machine and any DG Aviion machine.

billdeg
July 24th, 2018, 10:17 AM
I don't know, I find it difficult to like the Octane. It has a lot of capability, sure, but the form factor kind of sucks. I think my favorite is the Indigo.

I do agree that you can't put anything on the Octane without it sliding off, and the on-off switch sucks.

ClassicHasClass
July 24th, 2018, 05:49 PM
The "Un*x" machine I'd really like is a Commodore 900. And then to see if there's some way I can put a terminal server in front of it or something and have it host Secret Weapons of Commodore over a serial port.

Mercurius
July 26th, 2018, 03:53 AM
Yes. I like very much old non-intel UNIX servers/workstation (and different UNIXes). I have Sun Ultra 60, SGI Indy and IBM RS/6000 Model 380 (the two latter need to be resurrected).
And, I don't like that Intel took over everything in this world, including Mac.


I do not. I do own 2 Indy's and most of an Impact 10000. Anyone need parts?

I am searching for Indy power supply because mine looks to be broken... but I think it's hard/expensive to send it from America (I am in Berlin, Germany, EU, sometimes I travel to Zurich and Moscow).

MikeS
July 27th, 2018, 10:58 AM
I'd have thought that someone would mention Cromemco's Cromix UNIX clone (versions for Z80 through 68020) or Cromemco's 'real' 680x0 UNIX versions...

sweetsksu
August 22nd, 2018, 01:42 AM
This is about as old-school feel as you can get, with the only editor in the system being ed. I think I have more binaries built for UZI280, but I don't have my CPU280 fully operational yet.

2icebitn
August 22nd, 2018, 08:38 AM
Not sure where you're located but I have a 10000 that runs but has seen better days if you have any repair parts I can use them. I have a lot of spare Indy parts already.
I have been working on an Octane lately, this at the moment is my favorite SGI.

Just saw this. I'm 15 miles south of Toms River, NJ. If you could tell me what you need Bill, I will earnestly take as much of your money as I can :)

2icebitn
August 22nd, 2018, 08:47 AM
Yes. I like very much old non-intel UNIX servers/workstation (and different UNIXes). I have Sun Ultra 60, SGI Indy and IBM RS/6000 Model 380 (the two latter need to be resurrected).
And, I don't like that Intel took over everything in this world, including Mac.



I am searching for Indy power supply because mine looks to be broken... but I think it's hard/expensive to send it from America (I am in Berlin, Germany, EU, sometimes I travel to Zurich and Moscow).

Man you get around. I was in Zurich when I was 4. I still don't think they want me back. If you think it's more affordable to send it to Moscow or Zurich, we can look into that together.

Maybe they didn't appreciate me calling the place Zur-itch. I'm not exactly itching to go back either ... I did like the blinken light board in the lobby of Bristol Hotel though. Not sure what it was for even, just liked staring at it.

Stone
August 22nd, 2018, 09:01 AM
Just saw this. I'm 15 miles south of Toms River, NJ.

Your Profile conveniently holds that info so you don't have to mention it every time you post a message.

billdeg
August 22nd, 2018, 09:21 AM
Just saw this. I'm 15 miles south of Toms River, NJ. If you could tell me what you need Bill, I will earnestly take as much of your money as I can :)

I don't need anything at this time. Moved onto other projects for the time being.

lyonadmiral
August 22nd, 2018, 09:54 AM
I've been interested in UNIX for a little while and while I don't have anything in which to really get into it but if I could collect anything I'd like to get my hands on an Apple Network Server with AIX, but I certainly don't have the space in this tiny efficiency apartment and double certainly don't have the money to buy one if I did find one.

EtchedPixels
September 16th, 2018, 12:54 PM
I used to own a DEC5000 series box in 5 floorstanding cabinets, but it had to go when I changed job unfortunately. Prior to that it lived in the admin space of the ISP I worked for. The boss was quite happy to have it there because it looked really impressive to visitors even though the actual ISP was running off a couple of 486 machines and some routers and bits - and which really looked quite boring. The SGI had to go for the same reason. I've still got PA-RISC, Alpha and Sparc boxes.

I also have A/UX for my Mac LCII but it's more of a Linux system although the way A/UX integrates mac look and feel (and many apps) was way ahead of it's time for Unix GUI.

I've got my eyes out for a few Unix systems though. I really want an Altos 8600 or similar (I should be so lucky). I've also got some more modern era but interesting hardware designed for that job, including a Pentium M era bladeserver from the days before virtualisation where you wanted to get as much physical system as you could in one rack. It's a bit tricky to play with because I have to turn most of the other stuff on the rack off or it blows the trip.

For all the 8bit stuff there wasn't a suitable Unix clone so I'm working to fix that with Fuzix.

Alan

ClassicHasClass
September 16th, 2018, 04:13 PM
I also have A/UX for my Mac LCII but it's more of a Linux system

I'm curious what you mean by that statement.

ClassicHasClass
September 16th, 2018, 04:30 PM
I'd like to get my hands on an Apple Network Server with AIX, but I certainly don't have the space in this tiny efficiency apartment and double certainly don't have the money to buy one if I did find one.

At least in my experience, it's been shipping, not purchase price. The ANSes tend to be terrible white elephants because they're the size of a small refrigerator. (I have three, a 500, a 700 and a non-working prototype Shiner.) The 500 was "work for us for the summer and we'll throw that thing in too." The 700 was literally "come and get it." The Shiner was $50 and a pickup in Marin county. They're getting rare enough to have some collector cred, but they were never very common to begin with.

They were pretty great AIX machines in the day, though, I thought. I liked it a lot better than the RS/6000s we had and it has excellent binary compatibility. My experience with AIX on both the RS6Ks and the ANS is why it was succeded by a POWER6 running a more contemporary AIX, which runs www.floodgap.com and gopher.floodgap.com (gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/) now.

I just realized I never posted the rest of the Un*x machines that lurk here. Limiting it to what's set up and/or turned on and not counting Macs running OS X,

Raptor Talos II (8-core/32-thread POWER9)
POWER6 p520 Express
SGI Fuel (900MHz MIPS + V12 DCD)
SGI Indy (with R4600)
AlphaPC 164LX
Apple Network Server 500/"200"
Cobalt RaQ 2 (MIPS)
Solbourne S3000 (SPARC KAP) running OS/MP

RISC laptops:
Sun Ultra-3
RDI UltraBook IIi
RDI PrecisionBook (160MHz) -- practically a carbon copy of the SPARC Books
IBM ThinkPad 860
IBM ThinkPad "800" (Type 6020), still refusing to boot from SCSI

Does the BeBox count? :P

In the honourable mention category is a Mac IIci server running NetBSD and a Q800 running A/UX. The Dreamcast boots Linux sometimes; the Jornada boots NetBSD sometimes.

commodorejohn
September 16th, 2018, 07:27 PM
Does the BeBox count? :P
Nope - despite the worst efforts of the Haiku community, BeOS Ain't Unix ;)

Alphasite
September 18th, 2018, 05:55 PM
I'm curious what you mean by that statement.

I'm also curious as to how you can get A/UX running on an LC II.

mediasponge
September 20th, 2018, 03:34 PM
My IBM 3270 PC AT GX has a NS32016 Opus card that boots ATT SysV Unix. It was for running Valid GED, which traditionally ran on a SCALD station (68000). Later, Compaq forced Valid to port GED onto (3 guesses) the Compaq 386 PCs running SCO Unix.

Off the wall question: Does anybody with a SparcStation have a copy of the flight simulator that was on it? Some guys at Sun created it as a demo, then tried to make a go of it as a company, Artificial Horizons. They didn't last. The scenery packs you could load with that flight sim were outstanding. They were LandSat based.

Al Kossow
September 20th, 2018, 03:39 PM
My IBM 3270 PC AT GX has a NS32016 Opus card that boots ATT SysV Unix. It was for running Valid GED, which traditionally ran on a SCALD station (68000). Later, Compaq forced Valid to port GED onto (3 guesses) the Compaq 386 PCs running SCO Unix.

Off the wall question: Does anybody with a SparcStation have a copy of the flight simulator that was on it? Some guys at Sun created it as a demo, then tried to make a go of it as a company, Artificial Horizons. They didn't last. The scenery packs you could load with that flight sim were outstanding. They were LandSat based.

It was called "Aviator"

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a289271.pdf

mediasponge
September 20th, 2018, 07:44 PM
It was called "Aviator"

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a289271.pdf

Right, it was Aviator. Reference 1 in the PDF bibliography is Artificial Horizons, Inc. They had a bug in the flight sim where you could put the aircraft into a loop, and shutdown the engine. It would continue to loop!

resman
September 20th, 2018, 08:21 PM
My IBM 3270 PC AT GX has a NS32016 Opus card that boots ATT SysV Unix. It was for running Valid GED, which traditionally ran on a SCALD station (68000). Later, Compaq forced Valid to port GED onto (3 guesses) the Compaq 386 PCs running SCO Unix.

Off the wall question: Does anybody with a SparcStation have a copy of the flight simulator that was on it? Some guys at Sun created it as a demo, then tried to make a go of it as a company, Artificial Horizons. They didn't last. The scenery packs you could load with that flight sim were outstanding. They were LandSat based.

One of the engineers who worked on the flight simulator was Curtis Priem, a founder of NVIDIA. He ported it to the first NV chip and used as a demo to show off the capabilities of the NV1. Unfortunately the NV1 used quadratics as its graphic primitive that didn't map the perspective calculation properly and would cause the ground to swell up and "hit" you if you got too low. The simulator would limit how low you could fly to avoid this anomaly.

mediasponge
September 28th, 2018, 12:33 PM
One of the engineers who worked on the flight simulator was Curtis Priem, a founder of NVIDIA. He ported it to the first NV chip and used as a demo to show off the capabilities of the NV1. Unfortunately the NV1 used quadratics as its graphic primitive that didn't map the perspective calculation properly and would cause the ground to swell up and "hit" you if you got too low. The simulator would limit how low you could fly to avoid this anomaly.

That's really silly! Actually, there was a major bug in Aviator on the Sun. A friend at LSI found it. He was in the Air Force Academy, so he knew what he was talking about. He washed out for being too tall. What he found was that they were not accounting for loss of energy when the plane (or a missile) was in a loop. You could literally put the FA-18 into a loop and shut down the engine, and it would continue to loop! He tried to explain it to them, as well as his credentials as a pilot, but they never fixed it AFAIK. Same for the Sidewinder.

The other Unix flight sim we used to run was the one on the SGI systems. In Aviator, we would do combat, and team dogfights. On the SGI what we did was the zoom climb contest. You would take the F-14 up to just below its service ceiling, run it up to max speed, then go vertical. The trick was to come down and land on the airfield dead stick. Supposedly, the SGI flight sim was used as the "mission planner" console on the B-2 flight simulator. Not the actual pilot's controls, but the mission supervisor and planning station.

EtchedPixels
October 27th, 2018, 08:02 AM
I'm also curious as to how you can get A/UX running on an LC II.

Sorry to dissapoint but I have it in the sense of having a set of media etc. Having finally tried to install it even with a real 68040 I still have a set of install media and not much else. It's still running Linux. I shall have to find something else to install A/UX on because I liked A/UX for its UI, even if the internals sucked somewhat.

Unless anyone else knows how to persuade it to install on an LCII with upgraded CPU ?

ClassicHasClass
October 27th, 2018, 06:10 PM
It just won't, on a LC II, which is why we were all surprised. It doesn't support the hardware IIRC. The IIci makes a nice A/UX machine and isn't too hard to come by, though I run it on a clockchipped Q800 and it flies at 40MHz.

netfreak
November 15th, 2018, 03:41 AM
No LCs will run it. No AV Mac will run it either. I've had A/UX on a IIci, Quadra 610 and SE/30. I'd like to find a Quadra 700 to run it again but may settle on my SE/30 which I still have.

Ed Groenenberg
November 20th, 2018, 02:25 AM
My Unix machines are not that old (except maybe the 11/70, which either runs V7, SysIII, or SYS5R1) and are
all Sun Microsystems servers :
- T1000 (2x)
- T2000
-T5220
- X4100 (4x)
- X4200 (1x)
- X4150
- X4600
- U20
- U24 (3x)
- U27
- Sunray II
- Sunray III

Most of these run S10, one runs S8, and one runs windows server 2012.

Schroeder
December 13th, 2018, 05:38 AM
I do have a mixed set of Unix machines. Mainly the ones I used to work with in the past:
HP 9000/300
HP 9000/400
HP 9000/700
DECStation 5000
SUN 3-260
SUN Sparcstation 5
SUN Sparcstation 10
SUN Sparc Classic
SUN Enterprise 220R
IBM RS/6000 F50
IBM RS/6000 C10
IBM RS/6000 220
IBM RS/6000 570
IBM RS/6000 H50
SGI Indy

I like the F50s; did a lot of programming on these.

//Peter

bear
December 13th, 2018, 10:22 PM
I've found the F50 a bit troublesome to keep running.

Schroeder
December 14th, 2018, 12:38 AM
I've found the F50 a bit troublesome to keep running.

Interesting! What did you experience?

I'm asking because I had mine running 24/7 for 20 years and just start it every then and now these days. Would be cool to know what I shall prepare for.

//Peter

bear
December 22nd, 2018, 01:09 PM
multiple PSUs, SMC, processors, RAM... you name it. Never mind the endless parade of disks. Perhaps mine is just haunted.

mpcosta
February 6th, 2019, 03:14 PM
Hi all,
I also have a few assorted machines around...

SGI Indy R4000
Digital MicroVAX 3100/10e
Sun Ultra 1
HP 9000/712
IBM RS/6000 43P-140
IBM 3151 terminal ( currently connected into a Raspberry Pi running Linux ;) )

If my old Amstrad PC1640 HD20 allows, I will try Venix86 on it once I find time for that :P

Miguel

Al Kossow
February 7th, 2019, 07:58 AM
It was called "Aviator"

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a289271.pdf

found my copies.
uploaded to http://bitsavers.org/bits/Sun/aviator

marcopolo
February 8th, 2019, 01:27 AM
Hi,

I currently have:
- SUN Ultra 1, 2, 5, 30
- IBM RS/6000 43P
- SGI Indy
- VAX 11/730 ??

Marco

hamyamys
March 1st, 2019, 03:05 AM
Well, this is quite a gravedig.

But, since we're posting, I like RISC machines with weird architectures and many tend to run Un*xy things.

You are not supposed to make this thing happen during that graveyard thing

tipo158
March 6th, 2019, 03:25 PM
How is it that I haven't chimed in on this thread, even though it is years old ...

Pretty much all Sun/SPARC boxes.

SPARCstation IPC
SPARCstation IPX (with the Weitek PowerUP processor and expanded memory board)
SPARCstation LX
SPARCstation classic
Dead IPX (or IPC, don't recall which) and LX for parts
SPARCstation 5 (running OpenStep for Mach)
SPARCstation 20 (dual 150MHz HyperSPARC processors)
Axil 320 (SS20 clone, Hyundai-funded)
Solbourne IDT S4000DX (Sun competitor, Panasonic-funded)

I also work for Oracle/Sun on Solaris, so I have various systems running it in my home lab for work. And MacOS X is Unix and I have multiple modern Macs.

alan

2icebitn
March 6th, 2019, 04:51 PM
Lately I'm missing my AT & T UNIX PC. The thing was stored in an attic for who knows how long. Still booted, most of the time.

That guy had a second one. I should look him up.

Would that 68k port run on anything else anyone know?

Megatron-uk
March 6th, 2019, 11:31 PM
Currently have:

SGI Indigo 2 (purple skins), R10k 195MHz, MaxImpact graphics configuration, 896MB memory, 73GB 10krpm SCSI, Phobos G160 ethernet. Other than a 1GB memory config, pretty much everything maxed out. Running Irix 6.5.28.

SGI Octane (later blue skins), Dual R12k 400MHz, Odyssey VPro V8 graphics, 2GB memory, 146GB 10krpm SCSI. Have also got a gigabit network card for it, but never managed to find a cheap PCI to XIO shoebox converter for it. Irix 6.5.28

Force Sparc CPU-5V VME SBC, Sparc Station 5 on a card - 110MHz Microsparc II, 80MB memory - in the process of installing Solaris 2.6 or 7, depending on which installs more cleanly... eventually.

Motorola MVME 177 VME SBC, 68060 50MHz, 64MB memory - in the process of installing current NetBSD (8.0 at time of writing)

Also, I guess Helios isn't technically Unix, but it's somewhat unix-like and even has X11, so I guess you could squeeze in my Transputer kit there - various TRAM carriers for PC ISA slots as well as VME systems, with TRAM modules (from various manufacturers; both INMOS and Transtech) ranging from a basic T415 to the top T805 design with fpu. I also have a couple of really rare Power PC based Transputer cards from Parsytec - they interface with the Transputer serial links with a T425, but have shared memory on the board that the PPC and Transputer use to communicate.

Al Kossow
March 7th, 2019, 09:12 AM
Lately I'm missing my AT & T UNIX PC. The thing was stored in an attic for who knows how long. Still booted, most of the time.

That guy had a second one. I should look him up.

Would that 68k port run on anything else anyone know?

It would be related to the Convergent Mightyframe/Megaframe, since the 7300 was built by Convergent, but the I/O is probably different.

ClassicHasClass
March 29th, 2019, 03:24 PM
Today's score is a SAIC Galaxy 1100, essentially an HP 9000/712 in a MIL-SPEC portable case. The one I got has HP/UX and "TAC-4" which appears to be their military contract overlay. It's seizing up trying to talk to an NFS server that isn't there, but I'll get it cracked open eventually. I might pull the hard disk and install NeXTSTEP on a SCSI2SD for yuks. I had one of these a number of years ago, but it was badly damaged and I never got it working. This unit is just about intact.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3732

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3733

commodorejohn
March 29th, 2019, 05:37 PM
The 712's a nice little pizzabox. I quite enjoy running NeXTSTEP on mine, though it took a bit of hair-pulling during the install phase (the installer, at least in my case, set up fstab on the assumption that the hard disk would end up at /dev/sd0* post-install, but the CD-ROM drive I was installing from ended up there and it wouldn't boot until I removed that from the SCSI chain.) Need to play with it some more, though...

md95065
April 5th, 2019, 11:39 PM
It would be related to the Convergent Mightyframe/Megaframe, since the 7300 was built by Convergent, but the I/O is probably different.

If I remember correctly the 7300 was closest to the CT Miniframe - I think that they both used the same floppy disk driver but other things were probably different.

ClassicHasClass
April 8th, 2019, 06:43 PM
Actually cracked the SAIC Galaxy open. A couple screws and the bottom compartment swings open. It's an 80MHz CPU with 128MB of parity RAM. Not bad. A pretty easy machine to work on, though it better be at the size it is.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3739 (sorry about the orientation, I'll fix later)

itsvince725
April 9th, 2019, 07:12 PM
SAIC? Like...the Chinese company that makes cars?

ClassicHasClass
April 10th, 2019, 07:34 PM
No: https://www.saic.com/

ClassicHasClass
April 13th, 2019, 10:42 PM
The 712's a nice little pizzabox. I quite enjoy running NeXTSTEP on mine, though it took a bit of hair-pulling during the install phase (the installer, at least in my case, set up fstab on the assumption that the hard disk would end up at /dev/sd0* post-install, but the CD-ROM drive I was installing from ended up there and it wouldn't boot until I removed that from the SCSI chain.) Need to play with it some more, though...

I actually got around to installing it tonight. That didn't happen (it correctly put the SCSI2SD on /dev/rsd1a, though I had to follow the instructions at https://wiki.preterhuman.net/NeXTSTEP_on_SPARCstation_5_with_SCSI2SD to get it to install at all) but it did hang on startup until I started hitting keys and found CTRL-C would break it out of whatever it was stuck on (configuring the network, apparently). After trying to remember how to work with NetInfo, it's now on DNS and NTP, and works well especially considering it's only 80MHz. I'll get the Developer tools on it next.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3742

commodorejohn
April 13th, 2019, 11:17 PM
Nifty :D

ClassicHasClass
April 14th, 2019, 05:18 PM
Okay, now I'm having a problem. I'm trying to install the Developer Tools. I have a DEC RRD45 CD-ROM, which is just a re-ROMmed good old fashioned Toshiba XM-5401B in 512-byte sector mode. This drive works fine to boot the Solbourne S3000, so it's known good. It's on SCSI ID 6, the SCSI2SD is on SCSI ID 0.

The Galaxy installed NeXTSTEP 3.3 from the RRD45 yesterday as shown and boots fine from the SCSI2SD without any issues. So far so good.

Today, however, when I tried to bring it up with the CD-ROM connected and empty, it hangs. A verbose boot says it's stuck at "Please Insert SCSI Disk 0 in Drive 0." (It saw both the CD-ROM and the SCSI2SD; it put the CD-ROM on sd0 and the SCSI2SD on sd1.) I put in the Developer CD and it gets partway through the boot before throwing an error that syslogd is unhappy about the volume being write-protected (!) and the whole thing freezes at starting lookupd. I can cancel this with ^C, but then other things start going wacky, so I shut it down.

If I start it with the CD-ROM connected and the Developer CD installed, then it does the same thing.

If I shut down from the power switch, disconnect the CD-ROM and boot from the SCSI2SD alone, it's happy.

What gives? Do I have the wrong SCSI IDs? The hard disk I removed was set to ID 6; the SCSI2SD is ID 0 and the CD-ROM is ID 6. Before I go futzing around with trying different combinations, what are the IDs supposed to be? I know the SPARC version wants the CD-ROM on 6 and the primary drive on 3, but I can't find any documentation whether the PA-RISC port is the same way (or for that matter, much documentation on the PA-RISC port, period).

commodorejohn
April 14th, 2019, 05:46 PM
Yeah, I believe the PA-RISC version is similarly anal about SCSI IDs. For myself, though, if memory serves I just got tired of screwing around with getting the CD-ROM to coexist peacefully and copied the files over the network. *checks* Ah, yes. I have a thread about it (https://forums.irix.cc/thread-109.html) over on irix.cc, but in short, the mount command in modern Linux has a "ufstype=nextstep-cd" option that allows one to mount NS ISOs directly. From there, just tar-ing up the contents of the CD and moving them over to the HP was enough to install the tools from.

ClassicHasClass
April 15th, 2019, 10:23 AM
That at least gives me a means to install it, but since the PA-RISC port seems rather unloved (thank goodness for quad binaries), I'll poke around and see if I can figure out what the magic is when I get some time later. My working theory based on what was previously installed is that drives should be installed in descending order with the primary starting at 6 and CDs lower.

Oh, and gotta get OmniWeb on this thing too.

ClassicHasClass
May 4th, 2019, 01:01 PM
I hate being right. SCSI2SD set to 6, CD-ROM set to 3, genius.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3781

paul.brett
May 5th, 2019, 11:51 AM
I've got a Sun SPARC Enterprise 1 running Solaris, an IBM RS6000 Model F50 running AIX, and an HP K-Class 9000 running HP-UX.

ClassicHasClass
May 5th, 2019, 07:26 PM
Oooh, a K-class. My first job out of college was on a K250 running 10.20. I remember a lot of hacking to make aCC happy.

itsvince725
May 9th, 2019, 06:18 AM
I picked up a Sun Ultra 1 at VCF East. 167MHz UltraSPARC, 256MB RAM, running Solaris 8.

https://i.imgur.com/ZlsV48m.jpg

commodorejohn
May 9th, 2019, 07:00 AM
The Ultra series was my introduction to RISC workstation hardware. Aside from the inevitable proprietary peripheral ports, they're not bad machines.

ivelegacy
May 27th, 2019, 07:27 AM
With a couple of friends I am running a bunch of projects (http://www.downthebunker.com/)which aim for supporting a reduced set of unix workstations and server. Linux is our target, and the PCI64 is what we are focused on.

So, basically, we need to stay focused only on "core-team" machines.

ivelegacy
May 29th, 2019, 03:15 PM
Currently have:
SGI Octane (later blue skins), Dual R12k 400MHz, Odyssey VPro V8 graphics, 2GB memory, 146GB 10krpm SCSI. Have also got a gigabit network card for it, but never managed to find a cheap PCI to XIO shoebox converter for it. Irix 6.5.28


yup. My team has just bought a PCI-XIO. Definitively not cheap. We paid 200 euro + S/H + importing fees. But we need it for our projects, and we cannot wait for any "stroke of luck" on eBay.

Something good that happens to you by chance may happen, but ... the probability that it will happen when you need it to happen is in inversely proportional to your being in the rush for it to happen the quickest possible.

We spent ten months waiting. No more time to waste :D

tux
May 29th, 2019, 06:49 PM
I'm currently working on a Sparc IPX on which I installed Solaris 2.4 (using external SCSI CDROM) and running OLWM instead of CDE. It works fine, but the floppy dive light stays on after the machine boots. I tried reversing the ribbon cable, thinking it was backwards, but still not working.

ivelegacy
May 30th, 2019, 03:08 PM
SGI Indigo 2 (purple skins), R10k 195MHz, MaxImpact graphics configuration, 896MB memory, 73GB 10krpm SCSI, Phobos G160 ethernet. Other than a 1GB memory config, pretty much everything maxed out. Running Irix 6.5.28.


how can you have Irix 6.5.28 on an IP28 machine?

bear
May 30th, 2019, 04:04 PM
The same way he can have 896 MB memory, presumably.

lowen
May 30th, 2019, 05:29 PM
I have a purple Indigo2 myself, but not quite that decked out. Mine has a 100mb/s fast ethernet card, HighIMPACT framebuffer, 18GB narrow SCSI drive, the special SGI audio-capable DAT drive (which was my primary use for the system until I got Linux software to do the same with the SGI firmware drives), and I think 768MB RAM, although with the right SIMMS (128MB FPM 72 pin) the thermal limits of the chassis design won't be exceeded with 1GB; I just never felt the need to max it out. Besides, my O2 is fully decked out, and is quite a bit faster, having tighter memory to CPU integration, and it's a 2MHz R10k instead of a 10MHz like the I2 . Don't need 1GB to rip audio DATs anyhow. But having the fast ethernet interface made the transfers of the audio off of the I2 much much faster.....

I have original media for 6.5.19, but I usually do 6.5.22m for stability, on both systems. Neither system has been powered on for quite a while, though.

ivelegacy
May 30th, 2019, 10:40 PM
The same way he can have 896 MB memory, presumably.

IRIX v6.5.22 is the last version supporting IP28

ivelegacy
May 30th, 2019, 10:53 PM
128MB FPM 72 pin) the thermal limits of the chassis design won't be exceeded with 1GB


Dunno about that. There are twelve slots, and 1GByte takes eight ram stick. I have no idea about what could happen if someone installed twelve ram modules of 128Mbyte each. Anyway, even the 1GByte kit (8x128Mbyte) was undocumented by SGI.

lowen
May 31st, 2019, 04:27 AM
Hmm, autoincorrect bit me again. My O2 is a 225 MHz; the I2 is a 180.

IP28 does have 12 slots for RAM, but can only address 1GB in those slots. Older RAM modules in the higher densities threw off a lot of heat, thus limiting RAM solely due to the ability to cool the modules. Later 128MB FPM SIMMS (used by PC's around the time of the last Pentium Pro systems) run much cooler. See http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/i2gigaram.html for reference, as well as how you can get 896MB.

The SIMMs used must be parity SIMMs and must be fast page mode, not EDO.

ivelegacy
May 31st, 2019, 07:22 AM
Hmm, autoincorrect bit me again. My O2 is a 225 MHz; the I2 is a 180.
IP28 does have 12 slots for RAM, but can only address 1GB


This is precisely my doubt. I dunno if the ram controller can address more than 1GB. Anyway, there are for sure other problems, like you have underlined. I sold my IP28 four years ago, and I can not try.

53635
(the new owner, a dude in France)

Currently, I am more focuses on Linux/HPPA C3xxx and Linux/PowerPC { PowerMac/G4, Embedded/40x }.

bear
May 31st, 2019, 01:54 PM
See http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/i2gigaram.html for reference, as well as how you can get 896MB.

Oops, that'll teach me to post after only having eyeballed the arithmetic.

ivelegacy
June 1st, 2019, 06:26 AM
but other configs such as 512 + 512 + 128, or 512 + 512 + 256 or 3 x 512 do not work. When trying more than 1GB, Roger said the fan comes on, the LED flashes orange, there is no startup jingle, no graphics or anything; "I tried it on two different systems, same results."


yup, so other configs do not work. Now I know it.

ivelegacy
June 4th, 2019, 12:46 AM
yesterday I sold on eBay all my development CDs. Irix Overlays 6.5.27, Foundations, MIPSPRO with Ada, C, C++, Pascal, and everything.

It's time to stay 100% focused on different things. With my tiny team (5 people, including me), we have been working on a RISC softcore for three years, and it needs more effort to see the light out of the tunnel.

Two years ago I also sold my dual bricks Tezro (http://www.downthebunker.com/reloaded/space/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=91&p=296) with its development media and stuff.

I lost any interest with SGI/Irix. Anyway, we are keeping a couple or RISC machine (a C3600, and a PowerMac-G4) as reference for our Linux projects.

tipo158
June 4th, 2019, 09:32 PM
Updates -
Acquired a Tadpole SPARCbook 3000XT and a Sun 3/260 (that had been sitting exposed to the elements in a barn for years)
Will be disposing of the Solbourne and a system that I neglected to mention, an RDI BriteLite IPX
Also, forgot to mention that I have what was described to me as a SPARCstation 1+ prototype (in a metal, pizzabox case, which is something that the people that I know who worked on the 1+ don't remember ever seeing)

Also, I got RIF'ed from Oracle (as did most of my group), so my days of working on Solaris are at an end.


How is it that I haven't chimed in on this thread, even though it is years old ...

Pretty much all Sun/SPARC boxes.

SPARCstation IPC
SPARCstation IPX (with the Weitek PowerUP processor and expanded memory board)
SPARCstation LX
SPARCstation classic
Dead IPX (or IPC, don't recall which) and LX for parts
SPARCstation 5 (running OpenStep for Mach)
SPARCstation 20 (dual 150MHz HyperSPARC processors)
Axil 320 (SS20 clone, Hyundai-funded)
Solbourne IDT S4000DX (Sun competitor, Panasonic-funded)

I also work for Oracle/Sun on Solaris, so I have various systems running it in my home lab for work. And MacOS X is Unix and I have multiple modern Macs.

alan

ClassicHasClass
June 4th, 2019, 09:51 PM
Also, I got RIF'ed from Oracle (as did most of my group)

That sucks hard. My best wishes for a short interruption in your employment. :(

tipo158
June 5th, 2019, 07:24 AM
That sucks hard. My best wishes for a short interruption in your employment. :(

Thanks.

What really sucks to me is seeing a thing that I spent so much of my professional life on being slowly destroyed.

alan

ClassicHasClass
June 5th, 2019, 08:41 PM
I think there's a lot of that going around these days at Oracle.

munocat
July 27th, 2019, 10:04 AM
I have

Sun ultra 60, 2 x 450Mhz UltraSpace II, 2GB ram and elite 3D, Solaris 8
Sun ultra 60, 2 x 360Mhz UltraSpace II, 1.792 GB ram and creator 3D, Solaris 8
Sun LX Sparcstation 96MB Ram, 2 MB video ram, Solaris 2.5.1
Sun ultra 40, 2 x AMD 254, 12 GB ram, Solaris 10

Wanted: a sun server, Ultra E250, E220R or E450, SparcServer 1000 or 2000, any Enterprise 3k - 4500. Would be interested in bigger system, have space but it powering them that worrying me.

Wanted: Sparcstation 5, 10, 20
Wanted: Ultra 2

Maybe an ultra 45, but I donít know. I love openlook to much. Wish sun put the dev guide and sun workshop up for free, for these older system. Sun made it expensive as a developer system for licensing. Remember getting C compiler for my ultra 2 at work back in the day, it was not cheap.

munocat
July 27th, 2019, 10:05 AM
Thanks.

What really sucks to me is seeing a thing that I spent so much of my professional life on being slowly destroyed.

alan

I spent 3 weeks working at the Sun x86 group in LA, back in the 90ís porting Chorus OS, fun times, a great place to work.

ScutBoy
July 28th, 2019, 05:32 PM
Wanted: a sun server, Ultra E250, E220R or E450, SparcServer 1000 or 2000, any Enterprise 3k - 4500. Would be interested in bigger system, have space but it powering them that worrying me.



Where are you located? Especially for the big iron, it makes a difference...

lowen
July 29th, 2019, 06:30 AM
...
Wanted: a sun server, Ultra E250, E220R or E450, SparcServer 1000 or 2000, any Enterprise 3k - 4500. Would be interested in bigger system, have space but it powering them that worrying me.

Wanted: Sparcstation 5, 10, 20
Wanted: Ultra 2


E5500 is essentially the same thing as E4500, just in the full-size rack. I have one of those here, along with an E6500 (16CPU). I have a large number of processor modules, processor/memory boards, and I/O boards (SBUS) for these Ex500s; I last ran Fedora 12 Linux on them. E5500/6500 need a single-phase 208 or 240V 30A circuit. I run ours on 208VAC 30A, two poles of a three-phase circuit, although it's been several years since the E6500 was last booted.

I have some of the hardware you're interested in, including SS5 and 10 boards. I even have an SS4 here somewhere, along with a couple of SS5 clones. Also have an Ultra 2 and two or three Ulatra 1s lying around, along with some Sun RAM NIB.

normanator
July 30th, 2019, 12:31 PM
Happened upon a Sun Sparc Ultra 10 300Mhz with type 5 keyboard and Sun mouse. Nasty on the outside, but (relatively) clean on the inside. Keyboard was n-a-s-t-y. Took it apart and cleaned down to the nubs. Works perfectly (keys nice and springy). Boots up to Solaris 2.6 IDE desktop! Other than that, the drive is entirely empty. Also the NVRAM chip is dead, so I need to buy a replacement and reprogram it. Found the necessary info here on the forum (thanks guys!).

NO IDEA what I'm going to do with this system, but at an acquisition cost of $3 total (you read that right), had to rescue it. Used to work on Solaris back in mid-90's writing oilfield analysis apps in X-Windows. Maybe I can get some of those working again. :p

Lynn
July 30th, 2019, 01:51 PM
I don't consciously collect it, but I do have a Sun Blade 2500 and an SGI Octane sitting around.

And a PowerMac G5, if that counts (I'd say it does, technically :P)

glitch
July 30th, 2019, 02:59 PM
Where are you located? Especially for the big iron, it makes a difference...

Yeah, post your location -- I've got a SPARCserver 1000 that wouldn't mind a new home! But shipping it would be an ordeal, especially to a residence.

ScutBoy
July 30th, 2019, 04:46 PM
Yeah, post your location -- I've got a SPARCserver 1000 that wouldn't mind a new home! But shipping it would be an ordeal, especially to a residence.

Oooh - an SS1000 is one of the few things left on my "want" list these days. Any chance you are coming to VCFMW again this year?

munocat
July 31st, 2019, 01:40 PM
Where are you located? Especially for the big iron, it makes a difference...

I am in Vancouver Washington

normanator
August 1st, 2019, 04:41 AM
Do you all have any sort of meet and greet for VCFED members at these conferences? I'm relatively new to the forum and have yet to attend any, but it's on my bucket list! For newbies like me, it would be nice to have some welcoming faces. Maybe a lunch or beers mixer with VCFED avatars on name tags. Sounds a bit cheesy I know, but would help us conference first-timers assimilate.

commodorejohn
August 1st, 2019, 05:16 AM
Do you all have any sort of meet and greet for VCFED members at these conferences? I'm relatively new to the forum and have yet to attend any, but it's on my bucket list! For newbies like me, it would be nice to have some welcoming faces. Maybe a lunch or beers mixer with VCFED avatars on name tags. Sounds a bit cheesy I know, but would help us conference first-timers assimilate.
A good question, but probably more appropriate as a topic for a separate thread. I know we used to have a thread about this back on Nekochan (if you're ever at VCF West, track down classichasclass - you'll probably find him exhibiting some esoteric Mac or AIX thing,) but I don't think we have one here.

normanator
August 1st, 2019, 09:49 PM
Thanks. And yeah, this isn't the right thread. Apologies.

ClassicHasClass
August 2nd, 2019, 08:57 PM
A good question, but probably more appropriate as a topic for a separate thread. I know we used to have a thread about this back on Nekochan (if you're ever at VCF West, track down classichasclass - you'll probably find him exhibiting some esoteric Mac or AIX thing,) but I don't think we have one here.

As it happens, I'm exhibiting at least one esoteric AIX thing this weekend at VCF West too. ;) (A ThinkPad 860.)

ivelegacy
August 3rd, 2019, 03:01 AM
As it happens, I'm exhibiting at least one esoteric AIX thing this weekend at VCF West too


I am still building my own "esoteric things" with my crew of hobbyists at DTB, but technically projects are not "vintage computers" but rather "we want to reinvent the wheel, but since the modern technology is so bloody hell advanced for the hobbyist technology, then what we recreate looks like a vintage computer".

Is there any space and any interest in these things at VCF West?

For sure we will participate in the #CCC, which offers Hackaday-alike talks. It will happen in four years, in Germany.

I have recently bought a lot of fiber optical stuff, typically used in enterprise unix environments during the 2000s. It's for a project that my crew at DTB is on.

commodorejohn
August 3rd, 2019, 07:43 AM
As it happens, I'm exhibiting at least one esoteric AIX thing this weekend at VCF West too. ;) (A ThinkPad 860.)
See, toldja :lol:

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it this year, either...sudden car troubles and having to walk three miles to the shop yesterday on top of that :/ Next year for sure...hopefully I'll actually have something to exhibit by then, too.

ClassicHasClass
August 3rd, 2019, 04:56 PM
sudden car troubles and having to walk three miles to the shop yesterday on top of that :/

That sucks! :(

commodorejohn
August 3rd, 2019, 06:12 PM
Well, it was a long time coming, and fortunately for once in my life I'm in a position where this is only an inconvenience and not cause for a sudden panic attack. Still, it was a bummer to miss VCFW for the second year in a row...next year, for sure!

ClassicHasClass
August 24th, 2019, 11:35 PM
This kind of only sort of qualifies, but Stan Sieler pointed me to an eBay auction for an Accutech Gobi that was in Schrodinger's state and had no PSU. It was fairly thrashed but it was interesting, so I got it. It arrived with plastic fragments in the box and the LCD actually dropped out of the top case (fortunately I caught it before it landed on the slate). A couple cusswords and stabilizer clips later, I was able to open it. I looked at the power plug and saw it matched the one for my Tadpole-RDI UltraBook IIi, so I said what the heck and plugged it in. And what do you know!

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3831

The Gobi 8 is the 3G capable version of the Gobi, which is a Sun Ray 2 laptop. It's MIPS based, I'm told, but there's no built-in storage that I can determine (I'll crack it open and see since it's cracked already, nyuk nyuk). Anyone out there with the real Solaris Sun Ray Server software? I have jOpenRay and it seems to start on my Talos II, but I haven't tried seeing if it will talk to the Gobi yet and it would be more fun to do it from a Sun.(tm)

Once I get it talking to the network, then I guess the next move is to try to repair the case damage.

ivelegacy
August 29th, 2019, 01:40 PM
Sun Ray 2


I have a SunRay2, but to be honest it's not comfortable at all. The software is a mess about trying to support it on Linux.

ivelegacy
August 30th, 2019, 01:39 AM
https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3831


That thing is a "RDP" terminal (SunRay2 uses the RDP protocol) in "laptop shape".
Isn't there any "vt100" terminal in "laptop shape" ?
Isn't there any "X11" terminal in "laptop shape" ?

bifo86
August 30th, 2019, 09:01 PM
That thing is a "RDP" terminal (SunRay2 uses the RDP protocol) in "laptop shape".
Isn't there any "vt100" terminal in "laptop shape" ?
Isn't there any "X11" terminal in "laptop shape" ?

Which RDP is that? The only one I'm familiar with is the Windows version.

There are several remote terminal laptops from the 80s, but they're mostly telecom-oriented I believe. The oldest that comes readily to mind is the TI Silent 700, but I don't know what that was actually compatible with. Maybe the TRS-80 model 100 is the best example, I think the TERM program on that was VT-52 compatible. Portable X11 terminals wouldn't have ever been considered necessary for a traveling Unix guru, surely, so the Tadpole workstation laptops would be the closest you'd get unless you dropped Linux on a compatible 90s laptop.

ivelegacy
August 31st, 2019, 01:20 AM
Which RDP is that?


RDP stands for "Remote Desktop Protocol", it's is a proprietary protocol developed by Microsoft, which provides a user with a graphical interface to connect to another computer over a network connection. The user employs RDP client software for this purpose, while the other computer must run RDP server software.

Clients exist for most versions of Microsoft Windows, and the SunRay2 employes RDP client software as well, while the RDP server is built into Windows operating system, and by default, it listens on TCP port 3389 and UDP port 3389.

lowen
August 31st, 2019, 04:45 AM
For use with a Linux/*BSD box, you can put xrdp on the server and run the RDP client attached to it.

legalize
September 3rd, 2019, 08:24 AM
Isn't there any "vt100" terminal in "laptop shape" ?

https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Random_Colleague
https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Informer_213_AE


Isn't there any "X11" terminal in "laptop shape" ?

Since they assume TCP/IP connections and generally use ethernet connections (although many could run SLIP/CSLIP/PPP over a serial line), I'm not aware of any.

But it doesn't matter because you're "ignoring" me. LOL.

Caluser2000
September 3rd, 2019, 10:44 AM
Which RDP is that? The only one I'm familiar with is the Windows version.

There are several remote terminal laptops from the 80s, but they're mostly telecom-oriented I believe. The oldest that comes readily to mind is the TI Silent 700, but I don't know what that was actually compatible with. Maybe the TRS-80 model 100 is the best example, I think the TERM program on that was VT-52 compatible. Portable X11 terminals wouldn't have ever been considered necessary for a traveling Unix guru, surely, so the Tadpole workstation laptops would be the closest you'd get unless you dropped Linux on a compatible 90s laptop.Any laptop could be a terminal.

Svenska
September 3rd, 2019, 11:02 AM
That thing is a "RDP" terminal (SunRay2 uses the RDP protocol) in "laptop shape".
Isn't there any "vt100" terminal in "laptop shape" ?
Isn't there any "X11" terminal in "laptop shape" ?
I built an X11 terminal with an old 486 notebook many years ago.
A VT100 terminal could be made with any laptop-shaped device.

But: Any of these devices strictly require a cabled connection and a managed infrastructure. They are useless otherwise, which contradicts the idea of a portable device. Now, with ubiquitous WiFi and mobile connectivity, things might be possible - but the concept of a thin client or terminal has been suspended (unless you see in-browser-apps as the new iteration).

ivelegacy
September 3rd, 2019, 12:14 PM
For use with a Linux/*BSD box, you can put xrdp on the server and run the RDP client attached to it.

Yup. Regarding the SunRay2 with the Java App JOpenRay, it supports RDP as well as ssh, but first, you have to "unlock" a special menu. This procedure is described in the project mail-list (it's dead, but still available), where they say that in order to do that you need to load and execute the original Sun application made for Solaris and somehow ported to Linux.

ivelegacy
September 3rd, 2019, 12:19 PM
A VT100 terminal could be made with any laptop-shaped device.


I have been using my old IBM/T23 (it's a PentimIII) laptop as VT100, X11, and RDP terminal for years, but it's not the same as something that doesn't need Linux to give you a terminal.

ivelegacy
September 3rd, 2019, 12:22 PM
I built an X11 terminal with an old 486 notebook many years ago.
Any of these devices strictly require a cabled connection and a managed infrastructure.


I don't like the wifi. I want a wired connection. Ethernet, or Optical Fibre.

legalize
September 3rd, 2019, 12:26 PM
There are several remote terminal laptops from the 80s, but they're mostly telecom-oriented I believe. The oldest that comes readily to mind is the TI Silent 700, but I don't know what that was actually compatible with.

The Silent 700 series are just serial terminals. I don't think I'd consider a Silent 700 to be a "laptop", really. They're generally considered portable, but since they have a printer and not a screen, they're generally not thought of as "laptops". The earlier ones are quite heavy, I wouldn't want them on my lap, even back in the day. It was more typical to lug them home, plug them in and set them on a desk surface. The Model 707 (https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/TI_Silent_700_Model_707) is small enough and light enough that you could use it on your lap without too much discomfort, but it's still a thermal printer based model. Generally people expect a screen when they use the term "laptop".


Maybe the TRS-80 model 100 is the best example, I think the TERM program on that was VT-52 compatible.

Interesting. I hadn't heard that before, but given that it only has a 4 line display I don't see how it's going to be useful for most screen oriented applications. Did it have a 24-line screen buffer and use the 4-line display as a window into that buffer?


Portable X11 terminals wouldn't have ever been considered necessary for a traveling Unix guru, surely, so the Tadpole workstation laptops would be the closest you'd get unless you dropped Linux on a compatible 90s laptop.

Yeah, I don't recall anyone ever using a portable X terminal, ever. It would have been a laptop running a terminal program in most circumstances. If you actually needed a graphical display, the display resolution on a comparable laptop of the day would give you quite a very small environment as X window systems were generally considered to need pretty beefy resolutions at the time, even for monochrome displays. Even the NCD16 (https://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/NCD_NCD16) had 1024x1024 resolution monochrome.

Eudimorphodon
September 5th, 2019, 10:15 AM
Interesting. I hadn't heard that before, but given that it only has a 4 line display I don't see how it's going to be useful for most screen oriented applications. Did it have a 24-line screen buffer and use the 4-line display as a window into that buffer?

Minor correction: The Model 100 has an eight line screen. But only 40 characters wide, so I suppose it's the same amount of text as a four line 80 column display.

My vague understanding is that the built-in TELCOM software on those machines is *minimally* VT-52 compatible in that it uses mostly compatible command codes to reposition the cursor, but it lacks any kind of "virtual screen" functionality so if you were going to run anything screen oriented the remote system would still need to know about the limits of your window size. Which is certainly possible to configure if you're using it to access a UNIX system. Here's a UNIX termcap configuration for the Model 100. Some software won't like to run in a 40 column window, but it'll work for the sufficiently agnostic . (http://www.ordersomewherechaos.com/rosso/fetish/m102/web100/docs/termcap.html)

Eudimorphodon
September 5th, 2019, 10:26 AM
Any laptop could be a terminal.

In the 90's I knew more than one computer science professor who used PowerBooks (back when "PowerBook" might still mean a Motorola 68k-powered laptop) with MacX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacX) as portable Xterms for lectures, etc. This of course was the good old days when it was still considered acceptable to use open telnet and naked X11 across the campus network.

X11 is actually a pretty terrible protocol to use on a remote terminal because it wants a lot of bandwidth and does not handle connectivity issues gracefully. A lot of state lives in the client Xserver itself and if something times out the whole house of cards falls down. (There are proxies to try to solve that issue, like Xpra, but I don't think they really existed back in the day.) This is why protocols like RDP have largely replaced X11 forwarding even on UNIX platforms.

ivelegacy
September 5th, 2019, 10:51 AM
protocols like RDP have largely replaced X11 forwarding even on UNIX platforms.

RDP exports the whole desktop screen, X11 can export just the application screen. It's better for my purposes.

legalize
September 5th, 2019, 12:08 PM
X11 is actually a pretty terrible protocol to use on a remote terminal because it wants a lot of bandwidth and does not handle connectivity issues gracefully.

Yeah, raw X11 isn't good over a slow or unreliable link.

However, I thought they had introduced some extensions and socket front/back end processing programs that improved X11 over a serial line to be usable (although a serial line is still significantly slower than ethernet). I wasn't able to dig anything up with a quick google search right now, but I'm pretty sure I've come across these things before.

A project I toss around in my head once in a while is to take the current X server sources and target a graphics terminal back end....

Eudimorphodon
September 5th, 2019, 12:31 PM
However, I thought they had introduced some extensions and socket front/back end processing programs that improved X11 over a serial line to be usable (although a serial line is still significantly slower than ethernet). I wasn't able to dig anything up with a quick google search right now, but I'm pretty sure I've come across these things before.

Likewise I also have vague memories of there being some kind of "low band" X11 extensions existing, but I also couldn't recall any/Google them at short notice, which makes me suspect they never really saw widespread use.(*)

Your earlier point about X11 not playing well on portable-size screens (at least where the state of the art was through the 1990's) is of course also depressingly true. Without some kind of virtual desktop scrolling software anything under 1024x786 is *painfully* tight. I used to limp by with an 800x600 virtual/640x480 physical display on my first portable "Unix" machine, a 486 subnotebook, and it wasn't unusual for programs to open dialog boxes too large to fit on the screen. (It was a good idea to use a window manager that let you set up keybindings for moving/resizing windows for the cases in which the window controls ended being rendered offscreen because the dialog was programmed to pop up centered.)

(*) Edit: Wikipedia page for LBX, Low Bandwidth X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Bandwidth_X). Looks like that at least didn't really go anywhere.

legalize
September 5th, 2019, 01:56 PM
X11 itself doesn't really care about your screen size, but most modern window managers/UI paradigms assume a big-ish screen, I think.

Yeah, LBX was the one I was thinking about.

For my "X server on old school graphics terminal idea", a simple server is what I was thinking about. The X server would run as a user space client that maintained a framebuffer as a chunk of host memory. It would update the frame buffer in response to protocol requests and mirror the updates into a command stream to the terminal to make the terminal reflect the memory frame buffer. This wouldn't take advantage of local terminal primitives, but it would be the simplest to get working. User input is read from the serial port and turned into synthesized X events in server. It would work, but be really slow. You could optimize it more by taking advantage of specific terminal features, but if you just kept it stupid and send output to the terminal as pixel commands and input from the terminal synthesized as events you could get it to work on almost any terminal that can do pixel updates.

ivelegacy
September 5th, 2019, 02:54 PM
I've just committed to buying a Digital DEC VT525 with its original keyboard for 400 GBP from the UK :cool:

Eudimorphodon
September 5th, 2019, 03:35 PM
X11 itself doesn't really care about your screen size, but most modern window managers/UI paradigms assume a big-ish screen, I think.

This was back in the 1990's, but I think it's understandable that X11 software authors didn't think about "PC sized" screens. After all, even really ancient UNIX workstations rarely sported any less than megapixel-class monitors. (Sun used 1152x900 as the "standard", read "low" resolution back as far as the 68010-based Sun-2, even on the color framebuffers.)

One of the most odious offenders was the X11 version of Netscape. Its preferences dialog was YUGE; it's been a long time but I'm fairly certain it was one of those "I can't reach the buttons at all even with 800x600 to work with" problem children.

ivelegacy
September 6th, 2019, 12:38 AM
I think it's understandable that X11 software authors didn't think about "PC sized" screens.
Already sold, but all the native applications running on my Tektronix 400-series had primitives to get the screen size. This software was made for the OS VxWork (v5), which runs custom software, compiled for it.

Such applications are a native browser, a console where you can launch telnet and ftp, a text editor, and a picture viewer.

You needed to buy a license for this software, but when you set the resolution to the lowest available on the xterm and press the "reset" button, all the applications automagically adapt to the screen size.

So this means that X11 had the potential to do it, so I believe that on PCs ... well, it was more about lazy programmers who simply did not implement stuff in the right way.

ivelegacy
September 6th, 2019, 12:47 AM
back to my question regarding vt-term-in-laptop-shape, I have just found a new one example: the "Walkabout" made by "Data General". I don't know a lot about it, just aht it was DEC vt100 and vt220 compliant.

ClassicHasClass
September 6th, 2019, 07:44 AM
This was back in the 1990's, but I think it's understandable that X11 software authors didn't think about "PC sized" screens. After all, even really ancient UNIX workstations rarely sported any less than megapixel-class monitors. (Sun used 1152x900 as the "standard", read "low" resolution back as far as the 68010-based Sun-2, even on the color framebuffers.)

One of the most odious offenders was the X11 version of Netscape. Its preferences dialog was YUGE; it's been a long time but I'm fairly certain it was one of those "I can't reach the buttons at all even with 800x600 to work with" problem children.

This was a real problem on the RISC laptops, too. Even 1024x768 was cramped, and 800x600 was nearly impossible (such as on the early PPC ThinkPads).

ScutBoy
September 6th, 2019, 11:47 AM
One of the most odious offenders was the X11 version of Netscape. Its preferences dialog was YUGE; it's been a long time but I'm fairly certain it was one of those "I can't reach the buttons at all even with 800x600 to work with" problem children.

True!

EtchedPixels
September 13th, 2019, 03:31 PM
LBX died in part because low bandwidth rapidly didn't become the problem - high latency did. There were other schemes that cached stuff better - like NX.

Your scheme sounds rather close to VNC. VNC is surprisingly fast with a dumb display because you don't get back and forth latency and thus get real parallelism between the output stream and the renderer. There is even a VNC for javascript in browsers (noVNC) and it's quite funny confusing people with xdm as the top page of a web site 8)

ClassicHasClass
September 13th, 2019, 09:44 PM
Today's arrival: a Sun Ray 2-compatible Tadpole M1400, but unlike the Accutech Gobi8, this is x86-based (Celeron M 540). It has a nicer screen and even has a built-in web browser -- incredibly, it's Links 2.1pre33 -- plus WiFi, but it's bulkier and screams Chinese cheap PC laptop (because that's what it is, a gutted Compal FT01). It arrived in its original packaging and protective plastic sheeting. I don't think it was ever used.

I'll have to get more work done on jOpenRay to support these systems since now I have two of them.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3836
https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3837
https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3838

legalize
September 14th, 2019, 07:00 AM
[...] Your scheme sounds rather close to VNC.

That's a really good observation. Are there any open source VNC implementations out there that could be hacked upon?

Al Kossow
September 14th, 2019, 07:22 AM
That's a really good observation. Are there any open source VNC implementations out there that could be hacked upon?

https://github.com/TigerVNC/tigervnc

which is driving me nuts right now because I can't get it to work between a Fedora 30 box running MATE and OS X

Svenska
September 14th, 2019, 07:31 AM
Are there any open source VNC implementations out there that could be hacked upon?The protocol itself is dead simple, so it might be just fine to start from scratch.

Eudimorphodon
September 14th, 2019, 08:05 AM
The original VNC was licensed under the GNU license, which of course means any direct derivative also is.

ivelegacy
September 14th, 2019, 12:07 PM
Sun's OEM partners produced Wi-Fi notebook versions of Sun Ray:

Comet 12 - Sun Ray 12" notebook produced by General Dynamics
Comet 15 - Sun Ray 15" notebook produced by General Dynamics
Jasper 320 - Sun Ray 2 notebook produced by Naturetech
Amber 808 - Sun Ray 2 tablet produced by Naturetech
Opal 608 - Sun Ray 2 tablet produced by Naturetech
Gobi 7 - Sun Ray 2 notebook produced by Aimtec
Gobi 8 - Sun Ray 2 notebook with 3G support produced by Aimtec
Ultra ThinPad - Sun Ray 2 notebook produced by Arima
Ultra ThinTouch - Sun Ray 2 tablet produced by Arima
UltraSlim - Sun Ray 2 variant produced by Arima
Tadpole M1400 - Sun Ray 2 notebook with 3G support produced by Tadpole

ivelegacy
September 14th, 2019, 12:09 PM
Today's arrival: a Sun Ray 2-compatible Tadpole M1400

There some on eBay dot com. Priced around 100-150 USD + S/H. Brand new.

ClassicHasClass
September 21st, 2019, 11:18 AM
Latest SunRay to arrive is a Gobi7 that thinks it's a Gobi8 (also MIPS based). With some hacking to jOpenRay (renaming it to "kOpenRay") to deal with the Gobis lying about their source IP and to autodetect the native device resolution, we can play Tetris (served from my Raptor Talos II running the Java server). The Gobi7 is on the left, the Tadpole M1400 is on the right.

The next thing to do is figure out why it generates so many UDP NAKs and to deal with the ssh implementation having weaksauce crypto.

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3839

ivelegacy
September 25th, 2019, 12:01 AM
From where did you get the Gobi7? And how usable is it? for ssh on text-based console applications.

ClassicHasClass
September 25th, 2019, 08:42 AM
Currently not very. There are lots of graphical problems. It appears to have worked fine with jOpenRay on earlier JDKs on their tested SR2 system, but none of the three SunRay laptops I have work properly with jOpenRay or kOpenRay (mostly things that don't repaint). I'm improving this slowly.

necron2600
September 27th, 2019, 08:28 PM
I have a SunRay2, but to be honest it's not comfortable at all. The software is a mess about trying to support it on Linux.

SunRays were the best. I had a large company of analog and digital chip designers using CAD applications with dual 1920x1200 monitors and it was fast, it felt like things were running on a local PC. I setup a 'desktop farm' with SunRays to distribute load across so many users.
A SunRay running in Taiwan connecting to the East Coast of USA ran as if apps were local.. mouse and visuals very responsive (with over 200ms latency, ping times, on the network). Testing that same network connection with VNC and RDP without SunRay suffered with performance.
At home, I would hook up 6 or more SunRays to present a single desktop across 12 monitors.. and it ran very well... including sound (playing mp3's, etc..). Playing videos/movies did not do so well though. Try doing all that directly with RDP or VNC!
SunRays also had a 'Software'-based SunRay.. that can run on Windows or MacOSX.. and turn any system into a SunRay. The Software was good.. maybe slightly faster than regular RDP.. but nothing compared to the performance and responsiveness of the hardware SunRays.

The OS on the host running the SunRay server does not really matter.. as you can ssh to a Linux node, X11 to a Linux node, XDMCP to UNIX and Linux systems, automatically RDP to a windows node (or RDP to Linux with Xrdp). The installation guide is clear on what is supported and the requirements it needs. It worked well out of box on Solaris 10, as well as Redhat/CentOS Linux (6.x in my last tests) and Ubuntu too. You may need to run a bit older versions of Linux.. but its just the SunRay server, have the user session access a display on another system.

ivelegacy
September 30th, 2019, 02:49 AM
Bah, not what I experienced, and watching video on you tube confirmed that.

ivelegacy
September 30th, 2019, 02:50 AM
Besides, the old software is no more availabe from Sun/Oracle.

ClassicHasClass
October 21st, 2019, 05:26 PM
Managed to locate a copy of SRSS 5.1 and installed it on my Solaris 10 Tadpole. Wow, it's quite good! I was even able to play a few games with it, and that's with just a little 400MHz CPU doing the work. Even audio wasn't too bad over the LAN. Stuff that does direct video access won't work, of course (Quake refused to run, but GNOME Stones did).

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3864

bifo86
October 26th, 2019, 03:01 AM
Is that the sunray laptop version? I've noticed a few of them on ebay from time to time, I don't have any sun systems to use SRSS with but they looked like nice portable terminals. How do they work with xdmcp? I can't imagine they're compatible with the X2 Go server/client setup (still not sure how that works since it requires its own server software).

edit: oh looking back, the tadpole is the ray, I thought you meant it was a tadpole laptop acting as the server :dunce:

ClassicHasClass
October 26th, 2019, 03:53 PM
Well, actually, there's two Tadpoles in that picture. The Tadpole UltraBook IIi laptop at left is indeed the server (running Solaris 10 and SRSS 5.1). The Tadpole M1400 on the right, which has a Celeron CPU probably more powerful than the UltraBook's, is the client.

ivelegacy
October 30th, 2019, 03:12 PM
Managed to locate a copy of SRSS 5.1 and installed it on my Solaris 10 Tadpole.


Precisely: Solaris! On Linux, it has never worked this way, and the setup has been too much complex.

ivelegacy
October 30th, 2019, 03:13 PM
A member of my squad opened a topic here (http://www.downthebunker.com/reloaded/space/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=501) collecting videos and stuff about "thin clients" and stuff.

GeekLucanis
November 14th, 2019, 10:47 PM
Managed to locate a copy of SRSS 5.1 and installed it on my Solaris 10 Tadpole. Wow, it's quite good! I was even able to play a few games with it, and that's with just a little 400MHz CPU doing the work. Even audio wasn't too bad over the LAN. Stuff that does direct video access won't work, of course (Quake refused to run, but GNOME Stones did).

https://www.floodgap.com/iv/3864

I have been trying to find SRSS for my Sun Ray 1. Would you mind sharing the software, if you don't mind?

ClassicHasClass
November 17th, 2019, 11:36 AM
I have been trying to find SRSS for my Sun Ray 1. Would you mind sharing the software, if you don't mind?

I don't want to get Ellisoned, but I'll just say that if you look around on the INTERNET you may find the software in various ARCHIVE locations that are downloadable.

pippiripi
December 27th, 2019, 07:06 AM
Me.
I like retro-computing, especially Unix parts(but I like also old Windows OS), actually I have Solaris 10 x86(original set of CD-DVD Sun Branded), a Rx2620 Hp server with HP-UX, IBM 9111-285 Workstation, Original Windows 2000 cdrom.
I'm searching for Yggdrasil Linux, AT&T Unix SVr4 3.0.

ClassicHasClass
December 27th, 2019, 09:10 AM
Ah, the 285. IBM's last great workstation (never cared for the x86 ones). What's it running, AIX or Linux?

pippiripi
December 28th, 2019, 07:54 AM
Ah, the 285. IBM's last great workstation (never cared for the x86 ones). What's it running, AIX or Linux?

Both.
I have tried Debian 8 and Aix 6.1.
This great workstation had in the 2k years a "sms" menu which permit to boot from network,or a disk, this before the bootloader run.

EtchedPixels
February 9th, 2020, 05:03 AM
Me.
I like retro-computing, especially Unix parts(but I like also old Windows OS), actually I have Solaris 10 x86(original set of CD-DVD Sun Branded), a Rx2620 Hp server with HP-UX, IBM 9111-285 Workstation, Original Windows 2000 cdrom.
I'm searching for Yggdrasil Linux, AT&T Unix SVr4 3.0.

I have the Yggdrasil CD (or at least one version of it) in my collection somewhere but you can also grab it and many other early Linuxen including MCC - which was probably the first actual 'distro' for Linux from

http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/

Chuck(G)
February 9th, 2020, 08:32 AM
One of my customers sent me a BSD boot tape for Ernie for processing. Sorry, I don't have the data any more.

pippiripi
February 17th, 2020, 01:31 PM
I have the Yggdrasil CD (or at least one version of it) in my collection somewhere but you can also grab it and many other early Linuxen including MCC - which was probably the first actual 'distro' for Linux from

http://www.oldlinux.org/Linux.old/distributions/

Thanks
I already know this site, I have tried MCC and Tamu Linux.