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aoresteen
June 26th, 2011, 09:52 PM
I just rescued a 5150 off of eBay and my memory is hazy on the 5150 (never had one before - but I've had a bumnch of 5160 XTs)

Motherboard is a 256K PC2 type. It arrived with out any drives (but came with the floppy controller).

1. Will an MFM hard drive work? I have a Seagate 8 bit ISA controller.

2. Some were I have am ISA 8 bit floppy card that can be set to support 1.4MB 3.5" floppies. Will it work with my 5150 or do I need to stick with 360k types?

Thanks!

modem7
June 27th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Will an MFM hard drive work?
The as-fitted power supply in a 5150 was only 63 Watts. That is inadequate to power the motherboard, floppy drive/s, various cards and an MFM hard drive. It's one of the reasons why IBM upgraded the power suppy to 135W when the 5160 was released (to cope with the 5160's 10MB hard drive).

The BIOS is another limiting factor. You have the "256K PC2" version of the motherboard (i.e. has third revision BIOS) and therefore a MFM hard drive controller is supported. And so if you upgrade the power supply (if not already upgraded), yes, a MFM hard drive and controller will work.


I have a Seagate 8 bit ISA controller.
The controller make/model limits which MFM drives can be used with the controller. So for example, if the controller only supports a 50 uS step rate, any MFM drive connected must be able to work at that step rate.


Some were I have am ISA 8 bit floppy card that can be set to support 1.4MB 3.5" floppies. Will it work with my 5150 or do I need to stick with 360k types?
Cards containing their own BIOS, such as the one pictured at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/transfer/35_inch_drive.htm will work in a 5150. You may require DOS 3.3 or later to recognise 1.44M drives.

Chuck(G)
June 27th, 2011, 07:53 AM
2. Some were I have am ISA 8 bit floppy card that can be set to support 1.4MB 3.5" floppies. Will it work with my 5150 or do I need to stick with 360k types?

If your controller (there were many brands) has its own BIOS chip onboard, you can use it as-is. Just be sure to run a copy of DOS that supports the type of drive you're adding and that you've set the jumpers/switches accordingly on the card. If you have a question about your particular card, feel free to ask--I've got quite a collection of 8-bit floppy-with-BIOS cards--and in a couple of cases, even have the source code to the BIOS.

aoresteen
June 27th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Thanks!

I have a couple of new 235 watt power supplies for the 5150/5160 in storage. I plan on swaping one in (it has the 63 wall original PS).

I will run DOS 5, maybe PC DOS 7.


Not sure if my floppy controller has it's own BIOS but I think it does. Problem is that I need to find it in my junk bins!

Thanks for your help.

aoresteen
July 9th, 2011, 10:30 AM
OK got a new power supply in, orginal floopy, 10mb XT hard drive ST-412.

I get an error when it boots. One long beep then two short. Display adaper error. I have a VGA card in and can not get it to POST. What are the correct Switch 1 number 5/6 settings for a VGA card in a 5150 motherboard?

Thanks!

modem7
July 9th, 2011, 02:59 PM
What are the correct Switch 1 number 5/6 settings for a VGA card in a 5150 motherboard?
Both ON.

aoresteen
July 9th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Thanks. Now I don't get the beeps but I don't get any picture either. I tried two cards. No out put.

Found an MGA adpater and monitor. Works fine when I set switces for mono.

Do I need a special VGA card?

modem7
July 9th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Thanks. Now I don't get the beeps but I don't get any picture either. I tried two cards. No out put.
Found an MGA adpater and monitor. Works fine when I set switces for mono.
Do I need a special VGA card?
Only ones that are known to work in an 8-bit slot (i.e. only some 16-bit VGA cards will work in an 8-bit slot).

If you are using a modern monitor (e.g. LCD), that could be the cause. A friend thought he had three faulty 8-bit VGA cards. They worked when attached to an old CRT VGA monitor of mine.

aoresteen
July 9th, 2011, 06:07 PM
Yes I'm using an LCD. I *think* I have a CRT around here somewhere. OK I'll give it a go.

aoresteen
July 9th, 2011, 07:10 PM
modem7,

OK, I found a CRT. No luck. Just to be sure I put the card in a 16bit ISA slot MOBO and the card works fine as does the CRT.

I tried an XT 5160 MOBO switches 5&6 on. Same deal no video.

At this point I'm guessing that my VGA card just isn't going to do 8 bit VGA.

Any VGA cards *known* to work with a 5150 board *and* an LCD screen?

Thanks!

modem7
July 9th, 2011, 07:45 PM
At this point I'm guessing that my VGA card just isn't going to do 8 bit VGA.
So it sounds from that that you have a 16-bit card.

Note that for some cards, jumpers/switches need to be changed to go from 16-bit to 8-bit operation.


Any VGA cards *known* to work with a 5150 board *and* an LCD screen?
The wiki here has a list of 16-bit VGA cards that are known to work in 8-bit slots.
http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/8bit_Friendly_ISA_VGA_cards

That list doesn't show known compatibility with modern monitors.

Chuck(G)
July 9th, 2011, 09:24 PM
Not all LCD screens are made the same. The NEC Multisync LCD that I'm sitting in front of right now will sync down to 24KHz horizontal and do a variety of synchronization schemes, including combined H+V sync and sync-on-green.

That being said, most good LCD monitors should work with almost all VGA cards. There are a few real lemons out there, however.

aoresteen
July 10th, 2011, 05:36 PM
So it sounds from that that you have a 16-bit card.

Note that for some cards, jumpers/switches need to be changed to go from 16-bit to 8-bit operation.


The wiki here has a list of 16-bit VGA cards that are known to work in 8-bit slots.
http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/8bit_Friendly_ISA_VGA_cards

That list doesn't show known compatibility with modern monitors.

I found the Wiki and bought a card that is on it. Well see if it works.

In the mean time I tried to get an MFM drive going. No luck. I know one of my 2 ST225 was dead ditto for the second. I can get my ST-412 to get halfway through a low leve format then it aborts with a drive error.

I do have a 160 MB IDE drive with DOS 3.3, DOS 4, DOS 5, and DOS 6.2 on it. Any reccomened 8 bit IDE controller cards?

Thanks for all the help guys!

GottaLottaStuff
July 10th, 2011, 05:43 PM
If it will get halfway through the low level, try to format just the first half. Back when I actually used a 5150 I had a 20mb drive formatted as an 10mb drive. The other head/platter was bad. Worked though. :)

modem7
July 10th, 2011, 11:50 PM
In the mean time I tried to get an MFM drive going. No luck. I know one of my 2 ST225 was dead ditto for the second. I can get my ST-412 to get halfway through a low leve format then it aborts with a drive error.
I can think of a scenario where a good ST-412 will exhibit that symptom. If your controller is expecting an ST-225 drive to be attached, the low-level format routine will be attempting to low-level format cylinders 0 to 614 on whatever drive is attached. If all you've done is disconnected an ST-225 and in its place connected a ST-412 (cylinders 0 to 305), then the low-level format routine will get an error back from the ST-412 as soon as the ST-412 is commanded to go past cylinder 305.

If that sounds right, and you need assistance with reconfiguring your HDD controller, let us know the model number of your Seagate controller (e.g. ST10) and the method by which you are low-level formatting.

modem7
July 11th, 2011, 12:06 AM
I do have a 160 MB IDE drive with DOS 3.3, DOS 4, DOS 5, and DOS 6.2 on it. Any reccomened 8 bit IDE controller cards?
In the beginning ...
* For PCs and XTs, you bought an 8-bit IDE drive and matching 8-bit IDE controller. In this post, I'll call that 8-bit IDE.
* For ATs, you bought a 16-bit IDE drive and matching 16-bit IDE controller. In this post, I'll call that 16-bit IDE.

It's highly probable that your 160M IDE drive is 16-bit IDE. If that is the case, then to use that drive in a PC or XT, you need a special kind of 8-bit IDE controller, one that copes with a 16-bit IDE drive.

Talented members of these forums have produced such a controller. It is described on the VCF wiki at http://wiki.vintage-computer.com/index.php/XTIDE_project
From memory, no more Revision 1 units (PCBs, kits or assembled) are available, but when design of Revision 2 is complete, units of those will become available.

aoresteen
July 13th, 2011, 07:43 PM
modem7

Ouch! SLAP HEAD!! I do remember the early IDE 8 vs 16 bit IDE drives/controllers. I'm sure my 160mm Conner is an 16 bit IDE. Getting old sucks!

My ISA VGA card arrived today but no time to try it out. Tomorrow I hope.

I signed up for the XT IDE card. Great idea!

Thanks!

aoresteen
July 16th, 2011, 08:45 PM
I'm making progress. Installed the 16 Bit Trident VGA card. Bang! Worked like a champ with the LCD monitor. It has 1 MB of RAM on the videro card compared to 256K on the motherboard!

The original 360K drive works as well. Booted to DOS 3.3. :)

I found my 4 floopy drive 8 bit card and it does not have a BIOS in it. My other 4 floppy card (in a 386SX) does have a BIOS on it but I don't want to raid it for the 5150. I tried it with a 1.4MB floppy drive and it does not boot. :( So back to the 360K for now.

I bought a nice restored IBM 83 key keyboard for it and I can now actully issue DOS commands. Ye ha!

Now onto the 10 MB had drive. It'a an XT ST-412 with the original HD controller - a "Xebec" controller, it is marked IBM 1816101

I get a 1701 boot error. So I guess I should use the Advanced Diagnostics Disk from the XT to low level format it? Problem is I don't have one.

Anyone know where I can get an image file of the XT Advanced Diagnostic disk?

Any other sugestions?

I'm not ready to give up on this ST-412. It has the IBM logo on it and I really want to get it running again.

Thanks all!

Oh, I have an AST 6 Pack Plus loaded with 370K RAM ready to go and a SoundBlaster card but will wait until I get the hard drive working. And I have a Radio Shack computer casette recorderd and cable ready to play with cassett BASIC.

modem7
July 16th, 2011, 10:59 PM
Now onto the 10 MB had drive. It'a an XT ST-412 with the original HD controller - a "Xebec" controller, it is marked IBM 1816101
The different 'Made for IBM by Xebec' XT controllers are detailed at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/ibm_xebec/ibm_xebec.htm


I get a 1701 boot error. So I guess I should use the Advanced Diagnostics Disk from the XT to low level format it? Problem is I don't have one.
Anyone know where I can get an image file of the XT Advanced Diagnostic disk?
An image can be obtained via the "Advanced Diagnostics - Version 2.20 - 6139804" link at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/51xx_manuals.htm

modem7
July 16th, 2011, 11:17 PM
Any other sugestions?
The "1701" is generated by the code in the ROM on the XT controller, so thats a good start (at least some of the controller is working).

Check some basics:

1. 'Drive select' is acomplished on the ST-412 by way of a shunt block, so it's unlikely that 'drive select' is a problem. A photo of the shunt block and terminator resistor pack is at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/misc/st412_tres_shunt.JPG

2. The IBM/Xebec controller and ST-412 (as 'drive select' per above) combination requires the use of a straight-through control cable, not one with wires crossed over.

3. Pin 1 of cables going to pin 1 of header/connector.

modem7
July 16th, 2011, 11:25 PM
[Advanced Diagnostics for 5150/5160, not 5170]

a. Boot from the ADVANCED DIAGNOSTICS floppy (version 2.02 or later).
b. At the first menu, choose 0 (for System Checkout).
c. WAIT .. there will be a long period, including a time of no diskette activity. Be patient.
d. Enter Y [ the list is correct ]
e. Enter 0 [ to select option 0 - RUN TESTS ONE TIME ]
f. Enter 17 [ to select the Fixed Disk ]
g. Enter 2 [ to select option 2 - FORMAT FIXED DISK ]
h. Enter C [ to select drive C: ]
i. Enter Y

Low-level formatting will start. You will see the hard drive's access light turn on, and stay on for the duration of the format. Low-level formatting will take a few minutes.

aoresteen
July 17th, 2011, 08:51 PM
The different 'Made for IBM by Xebec' XT controllers are detailed at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/ibm_xebec/ibm_xebec.htm

Thanhks. Mine is Type 1, very first.

An image can be obtained via the "Advanced Diagnostics - Version 2.20 - 6139804" link at http://members.dodo.com.au/~slappanel555/51xx_manuals.htm

Many thanks for the link. I grabbed it and will make a disk.

I'm traveling for the next 3 or 4 weeks so it will be a while until I get back to it. In the meantime I ordered a WD MFM controller that does both hard drives an floppy. I need the slot for an Ethernet card.

Cheers!