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Druid6900
July 13th, 2011, 06:47 PM
I bought one of these;

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300413043065&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

and it arrived today. I'm not used to it yet, using one hand instead of two to extract the solder, but it's GREAT.

Took me less than 2 minutes to remove a 40 pin chip from a multi-layer board.

I'm just waiting for the different sized tips to come in and I'll buy a set of those too.

BTW, has anyone looked at the PDF in the other tool thread?

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?25847-DIY-Logic-Analyzer/page2

Chuck(G)
July 13th, 2011, 07:38 PM
You know, I'd love a Soldapullt that had not only a heater on the tip, but also one that would "****" the pump electrically as well--just hit a button and it goes "thunk!".

I looked at the PDF, Dru. Some interesting stuff, but nothing that lifted me out of my chair. Some of the prices are a little high, compared to eBay.

So how come nobody's reproduced the HP Logic Dart?

Druid6900
July 13th, 2011, 07:51 PM
You know, I'd love a Soldapullt that had not only a heater on the tip, but also one that would "****" the pump electrically as well--just hit a button and it goes "thunk!".



That's because you're a programmer, Chuck, and aren't used to real work :)

They do make desoldering stations that have a foot pedal for activating the desoldering pump suction, but, as you would expect, they aren't inexpensive. We used to have them when I was running the Computer Repair Depot here and, IIRC, they were something like a grand or so and they mostly went unused as they had a tendency to get too hot and remove the pads. We just used pencils and snorts.

Chuck(G)
July 13th, 2011, 08:30 PM
For a time, I used a Weller DS100. Instead of using the aspirator-type vacuum generator, I had a regular commercial vacuum pump and about a 1 gallon tank.

It was hell trying to keep the tip tinned and the little glass collector tubes had a habit of breaking when you didn't expect them to. The only good part was that it also had a soldering iron on the same stand, so you could feed some solder into dry joints for better removal. I think I burned myself on that thing more times in one year than I had in the previous decade.

I've got several solder-suckers, but the only one worth a damn is the big Soldapullt.

atod
July 13th, 2011, 09:06 PM
Second on the Soldapult. I originally purchased a knock-off on Ebay. It broke in a week. Seller sent me another and that one also broke. Now I have the real Edsyn version (around $24) and it has been performing great!

carlsson
July 13th, 2011, 11:48 PM
Dumb question, but which colour was the knock-off? I see on eBay there are 230V versions in blue (30W) and yellow (40W) where the yellow one costs twice as much as the blue one, but perhaps it works twice as well too.

Old Thrashbarg
July 14th, 2011, 07:12 AM
Personally, as far as cheap desoldering irons go, I very much prefer the older kind with a rubber bulb (http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG). Between the angled tip and not having to constantly reset the spring lever, I find the job goes a lot faster.

Chuck(G)
July 14th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Dumb question, but which colour was the knock-off? I see on eBay there are 230V versions in blue (30W) and yellow (40W) where the yellow one costs twice as much as the blue one, but perhaps it works twice as well too.

Knock-off or not, it's probably prudent to purchase one with an anti-static feature. My Edsyn is black.

bluethunder
July 14th, 2011, 04:50 PM
Personally, as far as cheap desoldering irons go, I very much prefer the older kind with a rubber bulb (http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG). Between the angled tip and not having to constantly reset the spring lever, I find the job goes a lot faster.

Radioshack used to sell those (still do? Since RS disapeared up here in the north).

I took one that style, and rigged up a surplus vacuum pump to it on a foot switch, works pretty good for a hack...

Druid6900
July 14th, 2011, 07:22 PM
For a time, I used a Weller DS100. Instead of using the aspirator-type vacuum generator, I had a regular commercial vacuum pump and about a 1 gallon tank.

It was hell trying to keep the tip tinned and the little glass collector tubes had a habit of breaking when you didn't expect them to. The only good part was that it also had a soldering iron on the same stand, so you could feed some solder into dry joints for better removal. I think I burned myself on that thing more times in one year than I had in the previous decade.

I've got several solder-suckers, but the only one worth a damn is the big Soldapullt.

Sounds like a cousin of the ones we used to have. One chip and you had to ream out the tip with a staightened paperclip? The tip welded itself into the end of the extaction unit and you had to drill it out? Had these felt filters that went in the end of the glass tube that cost more than the tube that you just broke trying to get it back into the unit?

Druid6900
July 14th, 2011, 07:33 PM
Well, understandable, over the course of my career, I've used just about every make and model of solder extractor made. Prior to the one I referenced in the OP, I was using a medium Soldapullit which was a good unit, but, the downside was that, to use it effectively, you have to roll it over the connection while the soldering iron is still heating it to get all the solder out in one shot. This has a tendency to melt a groove in the side of the tip, so, when it got too big to provide a proper seal, I had to throw on another tip. However, I could extract the solder in x shots on a x-pin chip, tap the chip with my finger and it would drop out into my hand.

With new desoldering snort, I can heat the joint, wiggle the pin around to clear it from the sides of the via and clean the hole in half the time (once you get used to not having a soldering iron in one hand and a snort in the other) and the chip falls out by itself.

Chuck(G)
July 14th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Sounds like a cousin of the ones we used to have. One chip and you had to ream out the tip with a staightened paperclip? The tip welded itself into the end of the extaction unit and you had to drill it out? Had these felt filters that went in the end of the glass tube that cost more than the tube that you just broke trying to get it back into the unit?

That's the beast, except I think it was glass wool in the glass tube. Terrible design.

If I'm removing fine-pitch SMT packages (0.5mm), I use low temp fusible alloy (I shave filings off of an ingot of Wood's metal, but ChipQuik is essentially the same thing). I apply heat with a 150W PAR-38 spot, wait a bit and the chip slides right off. Cleanup is with a toothbrush. Temperature doesn't get any higher than about 180F.

Druid6900
July 14th, 2011, 08:31 PM
I used to have a (very expensive) set of SMT extraction tips (various sized rectangles and squares) for my pencil that heated all the pins on a given size chip or package at once. Each tip had a suction cup in the center (appropriate to the size of the device you were working on) that you would wet, press the tip down so the suction cup pressed against the device body, wait a few seconds and then lift the device off the board. Clean the pads with some braid and you were good to go. I still had to put the replacement device on the board, orient it, tack a couple of legs down and then do the rest, but, getting them of was simple.

I have no idea where they are or went, so, on the rare occasion that I have to change a SMT chip or package, I just use a very small slot jeweller's screwdriver and do the old heat and lift thing. Clean the pads and install the device the same way as above. Guess I could just turn the board upside down and use my butane lighter :)

Chromedome45
July 31st, 2011, 09:03 AM
My concern would be the fact it only has 2 Prongs on the AC cord. No ground so maybe not so great on ESD. Again my 2 cents worth.

atod
July 31st, 2011, 12:44 PM
Dumb question, but which colour was the knock-off? I see on eBay there are 230V versions in blue (30W) and yellow (40W) where the yellow one costs twice as much as the blue one, but perhaps it works twice as well too.

Pretty much all of them. The real Edsyn ones will say Edsyn and be priced over $20. The knock offs are like $5 to $10.

atod
July 31st, 2011, 12:45 PM
Knock-off or not, it's probably prudent to purchase one with an anti-static feature. My Edsyn is black.

My Edsyn is blue. Do you have the Soldapullt II?

atod
July 31st, 2011, 12:46 PM
Edsyn makes replacement tips


Well, understandable, over the course of my career, I've used just about every make and model of solder extractor made. Prior to the one I referenced in the OP, I was using a medium Soldapullit which was a good unit, but, the downside was that, to use it effectively, you have to roll it over the connection while the soldering iron is still heating it to get all the solder out in one shot. This has a tendency to melt a groove in the side of the tip, so, when it got too big to provide a proper seal, I had to throw on another tip. However, I could extract the solder in x shots on a x-pin chip, tap the chip with my finger and it would drop out into my hand.

With new desoldering snort, I can heat the joint, wiggle the pin around to clear it from the sides of the via and clean the hole in half the time (once you get used to not having a soldering iron in one hand and a snort in the other) and the chip falls out by itself.

Chuck(G)
July 31st, 2011, 01:12 PM
My Edsyn is blue. Do you have the Soldapullt II?

Yeah, it's the DS017LS.

Druid6900
July 31st, 2011, 07:05 PM
My concern would be the fact it only has 2 Prongs on the AC cord. No ground so maybe not so great on ESD. Again my 2 cents worth.

All my Weller soldering pencils have only two prongs as well and, in my almost 40 years of doing board level computer (and other electronics) repair, I have never lost a CMOS chip because of ESD. In fact, I've never even heard of any of the technicians I know having "lightening bolted" a CMOS chip. It must take some special type of talent to do it.

The easy solution to your concern would be an earth ground wire that you could clip to the ground plane of whatever you're working on.

Regardless of what system you use, for ME, this sucker is far and away the best device I've used for solder extraction and I'm completely satisfied with it. The tip doesn't plug and the action is fast and powerful. Speaking of tips, I just ordered two more of the standard tips and three of the smaller diameter tips for 2.75 apiece. The guy whose store I bought this unit from is courteous, quick with a reply and with shipping.

I doubt I'll ever go back to an unheated extractor again (except those $1000 buck workstation vacuum ones).

carlsson
July 31st, 2011, 10:54 PM
Thanks for the reminder. I never ordered one of these, but I should look into it again. I'm just skeptic about eBay sellers and others won't have detailed pictures enough to determine brand name, and even if they do you never know if the product will look like the stock picture. I suppose trial and error is the only way to buy stuff online, in particular when not even your physical stores have any similar products to offer.

Druid6900
August 29th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Just as a follow-up to this, a couple of weeks ago, I bought a couple of more tips the same as the one that came with it off the same guy, and 3 smaller diameter tips. I think the tips were something like 2.75US plus free shipping.

Well, the smaller diameter tips are even better for removing ICs than the other tips were because you're not heating the whole pad, just the area around the pin so even the worse desolderer would be hard-pressed to cook the pad off. A couple of seconds on a regular pad and about 6 seconds on a power or ground pad, pres the button and it cleans the via out completely. No having to wiggle the pins with an iron to unstick them from the side, just push the little button, move on to the next and the chip drops out on the bench.

The larger diameter ones are good for component leads and power transistors. Just heat the pin and pad, move the lead into the center of the via and push the button. The component drops right out.

I've rarely been this satisfied with ANY type of tool I've bought and, seeing as I use this a LOT in my work, that's important.

Chuck(G)
October 16th, 2011, 05:26 PM
I got one of these tools that Dru recommended.

I like it a lot, but it is some trouble to keep tinned, but with care it seems to work okay. I have no idea of the longevity. The seller does include a sheet of his own instructions, including advising use of Teflon plumber's tape to make removal of the tip easier (a good suggestion).

I've seen a couple of other tools for not too much that include their own vacuum pumps and might be a little easier to handle. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Style 1 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Vacuum-Solder-Sucker-Desoldering-Pump-Desoldering-Gun-Iron-220V-30W-/320775785741?_)

Style 2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MT995-Electric-Vacuum-Solder-Sucker-Desoldering-Pump-Soldering-Iron-220V-100W-/220875961670?_)

The latter looks like a clone of a Hakko desoldering gun. Note that both are 2-wire 220V units. I wouldn't in my wildest dreams hook one of these to the shop 50A 240V circuit lest it turn into a puddle of molten plastic on my bench. I was thinking of a 120-240V "step up" transformer as used in travel adapters, etc.

The 2-blade plugs on these things look like they're for Australia/NZ.

For 2-wire 220V circuits, what's the convention for ground? In other words, is distribution 110-0-110 (CT grounded) or is it 220-0 (one leg grounded)?

Druid6900
October 16th, 2011, 06:43 PM
Well, the second one looks pretty cool, but, the first one looks like it would get uncomfortable to hold pretty quickly.

I like the second one except for the glass tube, filters and cleaning rods. Brings back bad memories of a certain solder/desolder station LOL

Do they sell extra glass tubes or do you have to cut your own?

Chuck(G)
October 16th, 2011, 07:39 PM
Eh, looking at the Chinese vendors, probably not. It appears to be clone of the Hakko 808 and so might take the same receiver.

But you may be far better off just looking for a good deal on a Hakko 808. A lot of folks think that it's the cat's whiskers.

Chuckster_in_Jax
October 17th, 2011, 07:10 AM
I have one of these and it really is the shiznit. Got it off eBay used for about $75. Wish I had bought one years ago.
Be forewarned that parts are really expensive for it. I had to replace the vacuum unit and a soldering tip. Pump assy. was $51 and tip was $34.

http://www.denondic.co.jp/en/products/sc7000.html


Parts list:

http://www.howardelectronics.com/den-on/denon_catalog.html

Druid6900
October 17th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Eh, looking at the Chinese vendors, probably not. It appears to be clone of the Hakko 808 and so might take the same receiver.

But you may be far better off just looking for a good deal on a Hakko 808. A lot of folks think that it's the cat's whiskers.

I think I'll stick with the one I have. It does a good job, doesn't have any parts to change, tips are cheap and, if it breaks, I'll throw it away and get another one.

In fact, I think I'll order another one now.