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Robin4
December 15th, 2011, 03:53 AM
I have bought a High capacity floppy disk controller card from ebay.

I have searched for information on stason.org.. But i cant find nothing about this floppy drive card..

I have tested this card and the bios seems to be fine to me.. The logo pops up and thats all.. He said he cant boot from the floppy disk..

I want to have a little bit more information about those cards..
Some cards do have settings, others dont..

I already tried some different bioses on my other cards.. And it seems to my they dont work propally as they need to do..

I already backuped the bios in de case something will crashed here..

Could some regonize this floppy drive controller card?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-96-0000-0700-Z0765A08PSC-PC-COMPATIBLE-/00/$(KGrHqR,!hQE1fCtgBlSBNnkS,!l!g~~_3.JPG

Above on the left it having some jumpers like:

A / B / C / D / 8

What are those jumpers for? For make the drive letter and device active?
Or just what you want to set as Primairy drive??

And can someone tell me what that 8 is use for?

Is it right the C / D are ment to use 4 kind of floppy drives on this controller?

And on the upper right theres a block of 8 jumpers?
Is this used for setting it op to 360KB / 720KB / 1.44MB / 1.2MB

Is it possible to setup drive A: as 1.44MB and drive B: as 1.2MB drive??

Maverick1978
December 15th, 2011, 08:14 AM
I'd surmise that at least some of the jumpers are used for setting the address that the card will use, allowing for use with on-board FDCs.

As to your other questions, I've never personally setup a 4-floppy system. I'd think that setting up drive 3/4 as DD or HD would be done with device drivers at startup (in lieu of a BIOS) rather than a "hard coded" jumper setting on the card itself.

Maybe you've just given me another "weekend project" for the ever-expanding list of projects... :)

krebizfan
December 15th, 2011, 08:49 AM
I could be wrong but I think the Zilog FDC shown on the card does not handle high density floppy drives.

kyeakel
December 15th, 2011, 09:22 AM
There is a part number stenciled on the board, it's in the glare so I can't read it. I assume you searched for it.
Kipp

Chuck(G)
December 15th, 2011, 10:05 AM
The Zilog FDC (Zilog's version of the NEC µPD765A) does indeed handle high-density--indeed it started out as an 8" drive controller and was only later adapted to 5.25" drive use. It's the people who developed the support circuitry on various early FDCs that didn't bother about supporting high-density. But this one should be fine.

You'll note that each of A B C D jumper sections has two jumpers per drive letter--these determine the type of drive that you're using. Try all 4 combinations of the two jumpers to get your system to boot.

Robin4
December 15th, 2011, 02:43 PM
@Maverick1978

I never worked with those old controller cards either.. But i want to have full support of HD drives on my 8088 computer.
I dont like have it a part of using an newer 16-bit controller board and using some software that would enable HD floppy disk support.. But iam a little bit affraid that i demolition something on this card, because those controller cards are very hard to find.. But ill still keep finding, till i find a working one thats pleased me..

@krebizfan

If theres no bios, then you could have been right.. But those cards having a bios, because the main bios of the mainboard doesnt have support for hd floppy disk drives..

@kyeakel
I tried that all ready to search with google on those numbers, but cant find anything about it. Thats not strange because its 23 /24 years old hardware..

@Chuck(G)

Its allready set on drive A when it arrived. But wont read the floppy drive. I also did disconnect it from the 1.2MB drive and only connected it on the 1.44mb one..
When i started the computer it gave me an white text bar from the bios, but wont load any further..

Could a wrong setting kill the card? Because some settings are manufactured set.. So i dont want to play with does..

Chuck(G)
December 15th, 2011, 03:27 PM
@Chuck(G)

Its allready set on drive A when it arrived. But wont read the floppy drive. I also did disconnect it from the 1.2MB drive and only connected it on the 1.44mb one..
When i started the computer it gave me an white text bar from the bios, but wont load any further..

Could a wrong setting kill the card? Because some settings are manufactured set.. So i dont want to play with does..

Take a close look at that header. Note that there are two sets of pins per drive. That means that you have 4 combinations of jumpers for each drive: off-off/off-on/on-off/on-on. Each one of these combination denotes a different drive type connected to the controller (e.g. 360K/720K/1.2M/1.44M).

Robin4
December 15th, 2011, 05:17 PM
I dont get it..

You can only put the cap on one jumper set (2 legs) or take it off..and there a 4 devices / drives.
A/B/C/D

Or is C the same like A:
and B is the same like D:

So it should like:

A: 720KB
B: 360KB
C: 1.44M
D: 1.2M

Do you have a drawing how to set Drive A: -> 1.44MB
and set Drive B -> 1.2MB

That right upper jumper block is that only for setting the cards address?

Do i need to use it when iam going installing an harddisk in this system?

Chuck(G)
December 15th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Okay, let's try again.

Note that you have a 2-drive card--the extra header and DC-37F connector near the bracket are missing for the C and D drives (old PC system, ABCD could be floppies; now C: is always the hard drive, but it wasn't always thus)

You're also missing driver chips at U27 and U28, so you've got a 2-drive controller (yes, it probably could be converted into a 4-drive board).

So now, let's go back to the headers. Note how they're boxed off into sets of 2 by the silk-screening on the board. The first box is for drive A:, the second for drive B:, the third for drive C: and the fourth for drive D:. Since this is a 2-drive card, the single set of pins at the first half of box C is just a storage position for a jumper. Note that the second half of the box and the whole box at D is unpopulated--they don't do anything.

That leaves you four header pins at boxes A and B. As I've said, the way those boxes are jumpered (00,01,10 or 11, where 1 = jumper on and 0 = jumper off) tells the BIOS the drive type. So, for box A try all 4 variations until you get something that boots.

Clear?

modem7
December 15th, 2011, 08:45 PM
Maybe a drawing will help bridge the language gap.

The drawing below is for the Multi Unique FDC card.
See how there are two jumpers for A: and two jumpers for B:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images2/muf_jumpers.jpg

Your card also uses two jumpers for A: and two jumpers for B:

Compared to the Multi Unique FDC card, your card will use different jumper settings for 360/1.2/720/1.44
We do not know what they are.

RickNel
December 15th, 2011, 10:14 PM
Old ISA cards usually have jumpers to set the port address. On this card, port setting seems to be the pins at JP4. If configured for 4 drives, it might use 2 port addresses. Since this is only populated to drive 2 drives, probably only jumpers 1 and 2 of JP4 will determine the port address.

The card will conflict with another device if it is jumpered for an address that is already in use by the other device.

If you put the card in the ISA bus of a working machine, you should see in the BIOS startup screens whether there is an address conflict with another device. Try different combinations at JP4, positions 1 and 2, until the card is recognised without a conflict. Then you will know what jumper position sets what port address. If you have a Windows ISA-bus machine, the Device Manager in Control Panel can make this easier.

When you are sure the card is at a non-conflicting port address, then you can test the settings for size of drives A and B (JP2, jumpers 1-4) as described by Chuck and Modem7.

Rick

Robin4
December 16th, 2011, 04:19 AM
Is the port address the same adresses what scsi adapter use to like:

c800
CA00
CE00
DE00

I further understand the part that this pcb has a 4 drives lay-out but actually its an 2 ports / drives controller card..
I only need to read more times what you guys wrote about that pin setting on the upper left side..

About that JP4 port address side. It has 8 numbered pins.

So those should be the mention adresses here above what i have wrote..

modem7
December 16th, 2011, 12:30 PM
About that JP4 port address side. It has 8 numbered pins.
So those should be the mention adresses here above what i have wrote..
We do not know. We can only guess.
You need to find technical documentation for the card. That documentation will have the jumper settings.
If you can not find the technical documentation, then you will need to experiment.

In future, it is a good idea to only buy cards that you can find technical documentation for.

Robin4
December 16th, 2011, 03:57 PM
I dont think i would find documention about this controller card. Its 24 years old hardware. Most of those information is already wiped.. I will experiment soon as possible..

In future, it is a good idea to only buy cards that you can find technical documentation for.

But those cards you will almost never find, thats that hard part of it. And mostly they ship those cards only to america only.. And its more rare to get it in my country..

Iam very happy that i could find one.. So then you have to choose, take it or leave it..

Robin4
December 16th, 2011, 04:07 PM
There is a part number stenciled on the board, it's in the glare so I can't read it. I assume you searched for it.
Kipp

There is written: P/N: 96-0000-0700 if you want to search for.

Robin4
December 16th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Maybe a drawing will help bridge the language gap.

The drawing below is for the Multi Unique FDC card.
See how there are two jumpers for A: and two jumpers for B:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images2/muf_jumpers.jpg

Your card also uses two jumpers for A: and two jumpers for B:

Compared to the Multi Unique FDC card, your card will use different jumper settings for 360/1.2/720/1.44
We do not know what they are.

So

Drive A uses: Pin setting A / B

Drive B uses: Pin setting C / D ??

But if i should put the cap on the above or the under pin, then its not connecting anything??

MikeS
December 16th, 2011, 04:41 PM
So
Drive A uses: Pin setting A / B
Drive B uses: Pin setting C / D ??
Sigh...
No, drive A uses the four pins labelled A, and drive B uses the pins labelled B; pins C and D are not used since your card does not have the optional hardware installed for those drives.

But if i should put the cap on the above or the under pin, then its not connecting anything??Yes, that is the equivalent of no connection in the diagram above (which you should rotate 90 degrees to match your board).

modem7
December 16th, 2011, 04:42 PM
But those cards you will almost never find, thats that hard part of it. And mostly they ship those cards only to america only.. And its more rare to get it in my country..
There is a place here in Australia that sells documented 4-drive floppy cards:

http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=315

This is the card that I use. It comes in original box with instructions.
The jumper settings are printed on the card.

I have only found one problem with it: "Using this card on a 640K 5160 motherboard (05/09/86 BIOS), I cannot boot from known good 1.44M sized MSDOS boot diskettes."

The company must sell to other countries, because on the website is "Each year, we reward our top 100 International clients with our Desk calendar as a Thank You!"

The company also sells a different 4-drive floppy card, but I have little experience with it:
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=292

modem7
December 16th, 2011, 05:08 PM
So
Drive A uses: Pin setting A / B
Drive B uses: Pin setting C / D ??
But if i should put the cap on the above or the under pin, then its not connecting anything??

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images2/muf_jumpers_2.jpg

Robin4
December 16th, 2011, 05:41 PM
Ok its clear now but no it doesnt have an 4 jumper block as you discribe.. or 2x2 as you describe above this post..

And i have the good news.. Its actually working now... All what i did was disable (take the jumper off) the first jumper on A..

If A only was enabled it couldnt reading anything.. If only B was enabled it only could read 720KB floppy, with 1,44mb floppy it gave me a read failure.. But i havent tested that much.. So i dont know now the actually drive type what now is set..

Is there a really good program, or diagnostics that can regonize the size type iam using..

The other good news is, is that this floppy card reads very fast compared with the other cards i have.. there is no lag/suttering at all.

So i think that jumper A block and B block is actually for drive A..
And C and D is used for drive B..

If you leave all caps off it would be set to HD floppy ( i think) otherwise it should be 720KB or 360KB..

I only need diagnostics util to find out if iam where right..

Chuck(G)
December 16th, 2011, 06:38 PM
My last try. Look at this closeup of the jumper block:

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7338&d=1324092462

Now, look over to the right side. Do you see the printing RP2 and JP2? Now, do you see the 4 solder pads outlined in a white box that has "D" and "8" below it? Those are the two jumper positions for drive D:--if you had a 4-drive card, which you don't.

Now, move to the left two more positions. In the box over the "C" there are two pads and a 2-pin jumper block. Those would be for drive C:--if you had a 4 drive card, which you don't

Now, over the letter B, I see two jumpers, both in the "off" position. That is, two jumpers are hanging by one pin each. They are for drive B: and have four possible combinations: both off, one on (over two pins) and one off (hanging by one pin only), one off and one on, and both on. This selection determines the type of drive B:

Moving to the left over the letter A, I see two more jumpers--one "on" located by the number "1" and one "off" located near the letter A. These are the jumpers to set the type of the A drive. Again, as in the B drive jumpers, there are 4 possibilities.

That's it. I've given my best shot at explaining things. I'm done.

Druid6900
December 16th, 2011, 06:52 PM
Let's try a slightly different tack here.

The jumpers are numbered, from left to right, 1 to 8, never mind the A,B,C and D.

Jumpers 1 and 2 control the drive capacity for the A drive, so, try all 4 combinations of flea clips on and off to get the desired capacity for the first drive.

Repeat the process for jumpers 3 and 4 to get the desired capacity for the second drive.

Ignore jumpers 5 through 8 as they are irrelevant.

Ole Juul
December 16th, 2011, 06:57 PM
I hope you read Chuck's explanation carefully. It is very clear. Anyway, it has been my experience that when something is difficult to understand, then it is because I am making some assumption which does not apply. Perhaps that is what is happening here. :)


. . . I only need diagnostics util to find out if iam where right..

There are lots of programs out there. Google will show you many sites which are dedicated to DOS. I like the Simtel collection because it is so large. Here is a link to some system utilities. You can look through it to see if there is anything you like.

http://archives.scovetta.com/pub/fehq/DOSUtils/00_index.htm

I just tried Test Drive 1.0 (testdriv.zip) and that will tell you what drives are connected. There are probably a lot more that will also do that.

Good luck! :)

PS: I put a couple of other diagnostic programs here (http://cgs.coalmont.net/diag.zip) for you.

Edit: I'm afraid I'm showing my ignorance - I spoke too soon. I just got to thinking that the diags I came up with probably only show the BIOS settings. A quick test shows that to be likely. Now I'm actually wondering if it's even possible to test a controller with software to find out what it's capabilities are. Personally, I'd just use trial and error and be done with it faster than I could figure out a piece of software.

Robin4
December 17th, 2011, 01:58 AM
Ok thank you, ill get it now.., now that you make that image bigger..

I have drive A: all off now
And drive B: are all off..

I THINK this is the high capacity settings. But i need to check it for sure with a diagnostic utility.

But i know, if i put the first jumper on enable and the second on disable (on the first block A) it wont read anything.
So i had set it to disable, and i can read / boot from 1.44m floppys and 720KB floppy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to say thank you for everyone that helped me

Second time i have good news.. I have tested the full card. I know the settings now.

If those 2 jumpers are disabled is reconized as a 1.44M floppy drive
If both are enabled then its an 360KB drive..
If the Left jumper is enabled and right jumper is disabled, then its a 1.2MB drive
If the left jumper is disabled, and right jumper is enabled then its a 720KB drive..

I also have played with JP4 jumpers.. If i take the outer ones, the cards BIOS is disabled or doesnt work anymore
If i take to other jumper in de left, then i see nothing happens, but to card looks a little bit work slower..
So iam decided to leave it how it was.

Only need to get my harddisk working..

I did use the MSD, microsoft diagnostic tool to verify if the right sizes / drive types where correct.
I saw that the floppy card is active on IRQ diagnostic, but the fixed drive is not.. I tried 2 different SCSI host cards.

One is a Future domain one (looks like an 850 one..)
The other card is an NEC T128 Scsi host adapter..

Do i need to make this controller set to active with special software or something?
Or do i need to make the fixed disk Active by using / installing MS-DOS 3.31 on it?

Like this:

http://s7.postimage.org/a01dmz6gr/muf_jumpers_2.jpg

Chuck(G)
December 17th, 2011, 07:55 AM
Just so that I will learn something from this exchange, how could I have stated the solution better?

Robin4
December 17th, 2011, 08:09 AM
i didnt seen the squares really good on the printed circuit board.. So i thought it would be a set of 2 pins only per drive..
So when the info was more detailed + the included picture, it came clear to me.. Then i looked to the PCB and seen that had indeed squares on the, then it was clear how it worked.

I hope you could help me with my scsi harddisk problem, so i can setup the harddisk. Its in the other topic.

Chuck(G)
December 17th, 2011, 09:46 AM
I hope you could help me with my scsi harddisk problem, so i can setup the harddisk. Its in the other topic.

No thank you--there are other people with setups using the SCSI adapter that you have who are in a better position to help. My own opinion is that much 8-bit SCSI equipment is old enough that it comes with its own compatibility issues. 16-bit ISA usually is much easier; PCI is easier than that.

Robin4
December 17th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Do scsi drives go faster dead?

Chuck(G)
December 17th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Do scsi drives go faster dead?

Not really; a lot of SCSI drives were quite a bit more expensive than MFM/ESDI or IDE drives when new. The larger ones tend to be engineered for continuous service, so if anything, they're better-constructed than the average consumer-level drive.

The problem with old controllers comes about in that the SCSI command set has evolved, but the SCSI BIOS and/or drivers are what came with the controller card. So, for example, some 8-bit SCSI cards will support a maximum drive size of 1GB and will not work with larger drives (without updating the controller software).

deathshadow
December 18th, 2011, 12:17 AM
Do scsi drives go faster dead?
Chuck is right on the higher build quality -- but there are two more things to consider:

1) SCSI on anything other than an Apple usually went into high load environments like servers, higher load == faster death.

2) SCSI drives often came in higher RPM's... like the assorted 10K and 15K RPM 9gig to 36 gig Seagate Cheetah's I've got... as well as a few 512 meg 9600RPM Maxtors. Faster spin speed == faster bearing wear and higher heat == faster death.

But under normal load a 'middle of the road' 7200 RPM SCSI drive I very much doubt would die any faster than an equivalent MFM or IDE drive.

george
December 19th, 2011, 01:42 PM
Robin4, I'm looking for a BIOS dump of that controller. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?28456-Looking-for-FA-100-(1.44-1.2M-XT-FDD-controller)-BIOS-dump.Can you help me? Thanks in advance.

modem7
December 19th, 2011, 10:12 PM
Robin4, I'm looking for a BIOS dump of that controller. http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?28456-Looking-for-FA-100-(1.44-1.2M-XT-FDD-controller)-BIOS-dump.Can you help me? Thanks in advance.
Just in case you have missed it, Robin4 has supplied the BIOS dump in that other thread.

Robin4
December 23rd, 2011, 04:13 PM
Chuck is right on the higher build quality -- but there are two more things to consider:

1) SCSI on anything other than an Apple usually went into high load environments like servers, higher load == faster death.

2) SCSI drives often came in higher RPM's... like the assorted 10K and 15K RPM 9gig to 36 gig Seagate Cheetah's I've got... as well as a few 512 meg 9600RPM Maxtors. Faster spin speed == faster bearing wear and higher heat == faster death.

But under normal load a 'middle of the road' 7200 RPM SCSI drive I very much doubt would die any faster than an equivalent MFM or IDE drive.

Iam using only 3600rpm drives and 5400 rpm drives, maybe 7200rpm ones..

I think scsi is much easier to implement then IDE or MFM, RLL

Yes i could make a IDE controller card. Then i need to buy the PCB.. and then iam not finished..
I have to search for the components. Its easier for me to buy them on ebay because the shops that sell electronics components are hard to find where i live.. If i buy all the parts on ebay, it would be for expensive because need to pay for every shipping, and the shippings from the USA to the netherlands arent cheap, and if iam lucky then i also need to pay import fees.. And then i have to solder it together and hoping if the card is full working.. So for that much of trubbles, its easier for my for just buying a working scsi card..

And i have the benefits of scsi that i could add more devices easly to.

If iam going for MFM / RLL then i have to following problems:

- Its very noisy, and virates too much.
- Uses a lot of power consumption.
- If the drive is dead, i replace would be difficould to find.. And the prices are extremly high..
- They arent bigger then 80MB or a little bit higher.. So if i need much of storage then i have a problem..

-SCSI reacts a lot better then IDE.. Under SCANDISK, scsi is more quicker, and i like that!

- SCSI its easier to implent, if you cant find an 50-pins drive, you could always take an 68 or 80 pins one a take an cheap converter board..

Chuck(G)
December 23rd, 2011, 04:50 PM
If iam going for MFM / RLL then i have to following problems:

- Its very noisy, and virates too much.
- Uses a lot of power consumption.
- If the drive is dead, i replace would be difficould to find.. And the prices are extremly high..

ST412-interface, ESDI and SCSI drives co-existed at the same time and often, using the same HDA. I have loud SCSI drives as well as ESDI and ST412-interface drives. You could also look at IDE drives as the same ESDI, but with the controller built onto the drive (they use the same command structure).

As far as noise and vibration, it's the HDA and not the interface that's the culprit, so it's somewhat misleading to classify the differences by interface type. There are noisy, hot SCSI drives just as there are noisy hot ESDI drives.