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View Full Version : Is it possible to have a shared network folder on vista that windows 98 can access?



Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 02:30 PM
Exactly that. My Pentium's USB support is not that great and crashes a lot when I use my flash drive. I want to send files back and forth between my windows 98 pentium computer and my windows vista laptop via network.

Chuck(G)
March 13th, 2012, 03:05 PM
Sure, just enable NetBEUI protocol on your Vista system. A lot of folks here do just that. As a matter of fact, I use NetBEUI to share between Windows 2K-XP-OS/2-Win 9x and even MS-DOS.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 03:29 PM
Do you know of any tutorial of how to do that. I don't really have any experience of networking, except playing lan games and internet sharing. I have played around with the shared folder on 2 xp computers before. So how do I enable NetBEUI on my vista system? and when I made a shared folder on my vista computer, how can I make it show up on the win98 computer?

Chuck(G)
March 13th, 2012, 03:43 PM
To access the shared folder on your Win98 box, go to the "Network Neighborhood" icon on your desktop. You should see your Vista machine there.

As far as setting up NetBEUI, just go to the control panel->netowrking and then add the protocol from there. You may need to restart, but Windows will tell you that.

http://windowsvistanxptricks.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-to-install-netbeui-protocol-on.html

SpidersWeb
March 13th, 2012, 03:59 PM
Think it'll be fine. Just wanted to add two things.

If it doesn't appear in Network Neighbourhood, (even under Entire Network etc), try opening explorer and actually type \\laptop_name.

As a last resort, share a folder on your Windows 98 machine, rather than the other way around. I know my Windows 7 machine has no problems at all dropping files on Windows 98, but it can take ages for it to appear in the list, so I manually type it's name.

I don't have NetBEUI though, just TCP/IP with 'Allow NetBIOS over TCP/IP' checked.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM
According to that web page, those instructions are for XP, but I tried following them as good as I can, and I tried installing the NetBEUI, but it doesn't show up. It says for XP that the NetBEUI is on the XP disc, so I guess its the same for vista, and I don't have any vista discs.

Chuck(G)
March 13th, 2012, 04:21 PM
What networking protocols do you have enabled on your Win98 system?

I chose NetBEUI because it works with a wide variety of vintage systems.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 04:38 PM
the protocalls on my win98 system are:

TCP/IP -> Intel(R) PRO/100+ Management Adapter
TCP/IP -> NE2000 Compatable

DOS lives on!!
March 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Those are your adapters assosciated with the TCP/IP protocol. Once you install NetBEUI, along with that, it will also list, "NetBEUI-> Intel(R) PRO/100+ Management Adapter *and* NetBEUI->NE2000 Compatable"

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 04:52 PM
Well I tried installing it but it wants the windows 98 install disc for some reason. so I go and get the disc and put it in, the cd drive recognizes it, but WTF? it can't find what its looking for? but its in there!

how can I make it see the file on the disc?

DOS lives on!!
March 13th, 2012, 04:55 PM
Which files is it asking for? I vaguely remember the files it wants, but it will tell you that the files being copied are older than the existing ones. Pull up the search pane and search the CD for the files.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 04:59 PM
it wants protman.dos, rpcltc5.dll, rpclts5.dll, ndishlp.sys, and netbeui.vxd

its telling me that "the file 'protman.dos' on Windows 98 Second Edition CD-ROM cannot be found"

SpidersWeb
March 13th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Is it a genuine second edition disc?

Also try C:\WINDOWS and C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM

Often I've found the files are already there it just insists on recopying network files at times.
Eventually I got sick of this, and copied all the CAB files in to the OPTIONS\CABS folder so I never got asked again.

What I'd do (not saying this is the best option, just what I'd do):
- just use TCP/IP which is already installed on both
- enable file sharing on Win98 machine if it hasn't been turned on yet
- share a folder
- hop on vista box and type \\name_of_98_machine in explorer

DOS lives on!!
March 13th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Most of those are located in .cab folders on the CD, but those files should also be on your hard drive. Point the installer to the /WINDOWS and /WINDOWS/System directory.

EDIT: Spidersweb, you beat me to it.:)

Also on Vista, you can view the devices on your network from an option on the left side of the Network and Sharing center windowthat says, "View Computers and Devices."

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 05:23 PM
One problem, when I go to the network window on vista, the only thing it shows is the laptop, and not the win98 machine.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 05:24 PM
Oh wow, I'm an idiot. The name of the cd drive changed from E to D when I changed around some drives... duh. Lets see if it will find it in the D: drive...

yeah thats the problem, but nothing shows up anywhere still.

DOS lives on!!
March 13th, 2012, 05:32 PM
Have you searched through the .CAB files? When you find them, just copy them to an easily accessable location.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 05:36 PM
The protocols have installed, but still I cant see the other computer in the Network window.

krebizfan
March 13th, 2012, 05:51 PM
I usually go the other way, opening up a Win98 folder for read/write access from the Windows Vista box. It is much, much easier.

The step needed is under advanced network settings on Vista to get both Win98 and Vista to be in the same workgroup. Vista's default network setup does not let it see drives on older operating systems.

I know it works because I have done it to backup a Win98 system.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Now this probably a stupid question, but how do you make a shared folder on win98, and how would that help anyway, if the vista computer wont detect it in the network?

DOS lives on!!
March 13th, 2012, 06:02 PM
Right click on the folder and click sharing. Then, you can select to share the folder and give it a share name. Also, go into the Control Panel, click on Network, And there's a button for file sharing. Make sure that the check box next to file sharing is checked.

SpidersWeb
March 13th, 2012, 06:06 PM
I'm more familiar with Windows 7 to be honest because I found Vista too slow and unstable.
The reason is, server security requirements change with newer versions of Windows, so older setups can't always connect to newer server shares (e.g. 40bit vs 128bit).
I was just suggesting it to eliminate any possible weird security issues.

Anywho, as I mentioned above, have you tried typing \\name of machine - it may not always display in the list.

To share in 98, right click on folder, go to 'Sharing...' or if thats not there, Properties and then the Sharing tab.
You enable the file sharing in the network setup window, it'll have two options 'Allow others to access my files and printers'.... etc and instead of 'Windows Login' it should be Client for Microsoft Networks in the drop down.

Sorry, just doing this from memory, because I'm at work (its 3PM here).

(Edit: DOS beat me :) )

krebizfan
March 13th, 2012, 06:11 PM
In Win98, choose a folder or create a new one, right click on it and choose the sharing menu option.

The benefit is you only need to have both Win98 and Windows Vista part of the same workgroup; you don't need to make sure the Win98 user is also a user on the Windows Vista machine and that the passwords match. There was some change in security that causes some Win98 passwords to look wrong to Vista.

I wish I could remember which option was needed to let Vista see the Win98 system; one of the automatic file and printing sharing things has to be turned off forcing manual locating. But right now, my Win98 networked system is busy updating its other operating system which means I can't do the copy between Win98 and Vista and thus can't check all the necessary settings.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 07:04 PM
Now I made a sharing folder on my 98, but How can I see its name on the network?

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 07:35 PM
OH YEAH! It works.

I messed around with the ip addresses of the 2 computers:
set the 98 to 123.123.0.0
set the vista to: 123.123.0.1

then on the vista computer I typed in \\TBB\nice (that was the share folder) and ITS ABOUT TIME! Well, that took half the day to figure out. but since I changed the ip addresses, it broke the internet sharing... so I'll have to figure that out...

SpidersWeb
March 13th, 2012, 07:58 PM
Internet isn't working because you've put those two machines on a different IP network.

You shouldn't just use any random IP though, only some are reserved for local use, local should begin with 10.x.x.x or 192.168.x.x, and for normal usage (subnet 255.255.255.0) the first three sets of numbers must be the same for every machine on the network, and the last number unique. Usually an internet router with DHCP built in takes care of this automatically (including internet access etc).


If you have a router with DHCP that works then if you enable DHCP on both machines you'll be sorted.
If DHCP doesn't work, find the IP address of your main machine and copy that - changing only the last number for each.

e.g.
192.168.0.1
192.168.0.2
192.168.0.3
(avoid using .1 or .2 though, they're common with off-the-shelf routers)

Would've mentioned this earlier but I thought that part of the network setup was already sorted. Not usually an issue because people usually just let DHCP do the work.

Congrats on the success, next time it'll be 5 minutes ;)

Ole Juul
March 13th, 2012, 08:05 PM
OH YEAH! It works.

I messed around with the ip addresses of the 2 computers:
set the 98 to 123.123.0.0
set the vista to: 123.123.0.1

then on the vista computer I typed in \\TBB\nice (that was the share folder) and ITS ABOUT TIME! Well, that took half the day to figure out. but since I changed the ip addresses, it broke the internet sharing... so I'll have to figure that out...

I'm not sure why you chose those numbers. Yes, if nothing on your local network is connected to the internet, there is no potential problem. However, the reason we normally use reserved addresses for local networks is in case of any potential errors in configuration, which could possibly cause other people on the net some grief.


Private Address Space

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has
reserved the following three blocks of the IP address
space for private internets (local networks):

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255

For small lan's most people choose the 192.168.0.0 range. :)

Ole Juul
March 13th, 2012, 08:18 PM
I see SpidersWeb posted while I was writing, and added some more important basic concepts. :) I would add that it is a good idea to sit down with a piece of paper (or text file) and plan out the numbers you are going to use on your home network. I personally keep a file of these numbers so that all the machines which are not currently connected can also have their own IP and there is a system to what I'm doing. The fundamental idea here is to have a system.

BTW, the idea of using the IANA reserved addresses for LANs is similar to agreeing to drive on the right hand side of the road - it avoids collisions.

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Internet isn't working because you've put those two machines on a different IP network.


So if I had the ethernet for my laptop and win98 computer's IP addresses set the same as the laptop's wireless adapter (which is shared) execpt for the last number, the internet sharing would work?

also I switched the IP addresses around:
win98: 192.168.0.5
vista ethernet: 192.168.0.6

that works.

I just put the 123.123.0.0 and stuff because it was easy and I was just playing around with it. I didn't expect it to work but it did.

SpidersWeb
March 13th, 2012, 08:36 PM
Are you using "Internet Connection Sharing" (the tool in Windows) or do you have a broadband router in the house?

If it's a broadband router, then copy the gateway, dns, ip (except last numbers), and you should have sharing + internet.
If it's literally "internet connection sharing" software, then I can't help because I haven't used that in roughly 10 years :o

IBMMuseum
March 13th, 2012, 08:44 PM
I'm not sure why you chose those numbers. Yes, if nothing on your local network is connected to the internet, there is no potential problem. However, the reason we normally use reserved addresses for local networks is in case of any potential errors in configuration, which could possibly cause other people on the net some grief.


Private Address Space

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has
reserved the following three blocks of the IP address
space for private internets (local networks):

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255

For small lan's most people choose the 192.168.0.0 range. :)

But also keep in mind that on a Class C block, 192.168.x.0 is the network address, and cannot be used...

Tr3vor
March 13th, 2012, 09:00 PM
the only way to the internet is downstairs on the other side of the house. the only way it gets up here is wireless. so I basically use my laptop as a communicator between my ethernet hub up here and the wireless router down there, I'm using the internet sharing on the wireless connection through windows.

DOS lives on!!
March 14th, 2012, 03:38 AM
Glad you got it working. With those settings, does everything work now? (Wasn't quite clear at the end.)


Congrats on the success, next time it'll be 5 minutes ;)
I wouldn't say that so fast for DOS networking. Although, the second time I set up mTCP, it went around eight minutes. But with MSLANMAN or MSClient, that could take longer.

SpidersWeb
March 14th, 2012, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't say that so fast for DOS networking. Although, the second time I set up mTCP, it went around eight minutes. But with MSLANMAN or MSClient, that could take longer.
Especially when you manually put a network driver in config.sys, which turns out to be the wrong file, on a machine with no working floppy - like I did last night D:

For Internet Connection Sharing you could try setting the gateway setting to match the IP address of your laptop - but I remember Windows making configuration disks for ICS in the past and having issues - but it's been so long - haven't tried it with Vista.

Tr3vor
March 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM
So with the 192.168.0.x addresses, I can access my windows 98 computer with my laptop, but now the internet sharing doesn't work anymore.
So I was thinking that I should set the IP addresses of the laptop's ethernet and the win98's ethernet to the same as the laptop's wireless address, with the exception of the last number in the addresses, which should be different than any of the other devices on that network. maybe that would make the internet sharing work.

Chuck(G)
March 14th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Remember that many many routers and APs use 192.168.0.1 and ...2 as access to their own control interfaces. Same with 192.168.1.1. Trying to use those for your NICs will create a mess.

So pick a static IP well outside the low-numbered range; e.g. 192.168.0.110.

FWIW, my own internal net uses 10.0.0.x addresses. That way, I know I'm not conflicting with any of the various boxes on the wire.

Pepinno
March 14th, 2012, 11:43 AM
Exactly that. My Pentium's USB support is not that great and crashes a lot when I use my flash drive. I want to send files back and forth between my windows 98 pentium computer and my windows vista laptop via network.

If you do not strictly need the shared folder mapped to a drive letter, you could install a free FTP Server in the Vista machine, and access it from the network using a free FTP client.

Free FTP server for Windows: http://filezilla-project.org/download.php?type=server

Free FTP client for Windows: http://filezilla-project.org/download.php?type=client

Tr3vor
March 14th, 2012, 01:51 PM
So now that I got the filesharing down (I hooked up my dell dimension and connected it to the network), I have the Internet connection sharing enabled for my laptop's wireless adapter.

So my xp dell is telling me when it fails to load a webpage that the DNS lookup failed. Is the reason this isn't working because I left the DNS Address fields blank when setting the IP addresses?


ALSO:
I tried making the Ip addresses the same as the wireless adapter's : 192.168.1.xxx instead of 192.168.0.xxx That didn't do much.

Tr3vor
March 14th, 2012, 02:36 PM
Cool, I found a wireless router that automatically configures IP addresses, I think its called DHCP or something like that... well i still had to manually configure the IP address of the win98 machine, but the dell and vista are automatically configured, sweet. the problem now is that the internet sharing still doesn't work.

Ole Juul
March 14th, 2012, 03:38 PM
Remember that many many routers and APs use 192.168.0.1 and ...2 as access to their own control interfaces. Same with 192.168.1.1. Trying to use those for your NICs will create a mess.

So pick a static IP well outside the low-numbered range; e.g. 192.168.0.110.

Good advice. The other way to avoid that is to make a list and your own plan. I tend to avoid DHCP because I haven't got an easy way to know what IP gets picked without physically accessing the machine in question.* Perhaps that's just my ignorance, but I avoid it by using static. That said DHCP is handy for testing and guests. So I reserve 10 addresses for that.

@Tr3vor, you'll find your router probably has a place to chose the number of addresses for DHCP if you want to fool with that.



Tr3vor: So my xp dell is telling me when it fails to load a webpage that the DNS lookup failed. Is the reason this isn't working because I left the DNS Address fields blank when setting the IP addresses?

Yes. The only other place it can know from is your hosts file. That file, incidentally, is a great way to implement a way for your computers to know each other at home. Put an entry like "192.168.1.101 bob basement" so whenever you type "bob" or "basement", you will connect to .101. For example, type "FTP basement" to exchange files. Setting up a name server for anything under 100 computers is overkill in my opinion.


Tr3vor:
Cool, I found a wireless router that automatically configures IP addresses, I think its called DHCP or something like that... well i still had to manually configure the IP address of the win98 machine, but the dell and vista are automatically configured, sweet.

I'd be surprised if 98 doesn't implement DHCP it is absolutely standard, and needed by most people.


the problem now is that the internet sharing still doesn't work.

Put your router in the front and everybody will be happy. :)

* Fire up a computer and then try to FTP into it without knowing what address it came up as, makes the end result a bit like sneaker net. hehe

IBMMuseum
March 14th, 2012, 06:26 PM
...FWIW, my own internal net uses 10.0.0.x addresses. That way, I know I'm not conflicting with any of the various boxes on the wire.

VisionNet DSL modem? Mine is a Class A as well. Just lock down your subnet tighter if you have to do a VPN.


...The other way to avoid that is to make a list and your own plan. I tend to avoid DHCP because I haven't got an easy way to know what IP gets picked without physically accessing the machine in question.* Perhaps that's just my ignorance, but I avoid it by using static. That said DHCP is handy for testing and guests. So I reserve 10 addresses for that...

Get a device that allows its DHCP Server functionality to set reserved IP addresses (based on the MAC address). As I identify a new device, I put it in the range for that user (transitional devices from guests have their own area), and only a certain block (mine) can administer the managed network equipment. Yeah, I put quite a bit planning into it.


...Setting up a name server for anything under 100 computers is overkill in my opinion...

Depends on how easy it is to set up, my NAS has that functionality anyway...

With all of the above, I can pick up my laptop to go between work and home, without changing anything...

Chuck(G)
March 14th, 2012, 07:58 PM
VisionNet DSL modem? Mine is a Class A as well. Just lock down your subnet tighter if you have to do a VPN.

Actiontec DSL modem->USB->thin client with firewall and DNS/DHCP server (uses dnsmasq), mail server and music server->10baseT->hub+wireless AP. Thin client probably uses less than the modem. From outside, VPN is pretty much invisible.

Tr3vor
March 17th, 2012, 09:45 PM
oh wow. finally, It works the way I wanted it to.

I can't even fully explain how I did it, because its like 11:42 here and I got like 5 hours of sleep last night, but my mind is blown. that wireless router I got, I just turned the DHCP and set it to a similar ip like 192.168.0.x on my laptop's ethernet card. apparently when you do internet sharing, the connection that the internet is being shared to pretty much turns on some sort of DHCP and the router was messing with it because it had its own DHCP thing going on. then I just restarted my other computers and bam. it works. My mind is blown.

I'm going to bed now.

OldTimeCoder
March 24th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Exactly that. My Pentium's USB support is not that great and crashes a lot when I use my flash drive. I want to send files back and forth between my windows 98 pentium computer and my windows vista laptop via network.

What version of Vista do you have?

If you have pro or ultimate you create a user ID on the vista machine and in the share tab on the drive you want to share add that user name to the list of users.

On your win 3.11/98/xp machines you should see your vista machine and then log into it and there you are.

I had a Vista Home Premium loaded on a machine and nothing would see it, I had to upgrade to Ultimate and it worked fine, but pro should also work. That is the same with Windows 7, you will need pro or Ultimate for others to see the shared folders.

Tr3vor
March 25th, 2012, 09:34 AM
I'm using Home Premium.

I'm just using my dell as a host for my stuff, putting the files I want to transfer on that, then just using the files right from that computer. That sort of fixes my space/network problems