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View Full Version : Feeling lucky, is the 3c509B compatible with 8088 using NE1000 drivers?



JT64
May 2nd, 2012, 07:16 AM
This probably been discussed many times, the 3c509B will work in a 286 8-bit ISA slot however the driver require 286.
I did try it with NE1000.com driver and it will load i have no idea if it connects with the actual board though, it even will load brutmans? tcpdrv.exe, ipxodi.com and lsl.com.

But i do not manage to connect and ping my D-link router unfortunatly i lack twisted pair to try connect another computer directly.
So i was thinking maybe someone more knowledgable can try a 3c509b in a 8088 and see if the driver actually connect with card.

There is many of us 8088, 8086 owners who lack a NIC and a 3c509b in NE1000 mode maybe an easy way to get them up on internet.
But does it really work, the drivers loaded and configured for sure, but i can not reach the router.
I use NE1000.COM version 11.5.3
JT

JT64
May 2nd, 2012, 08:04 AM
This probably been discussed many times, the 3c509B will work in a 286 8-bit ISA slot however the driver require 286.
I did try it with NE1000.com driver and it will load i have no idea if it connects with the actual board though, it even will load brutmans? tcpdrv.exe, ipxodi.com and lsl.com.

But i do not manage to connect and ping my D-link router unfortunatly i lack twisted pair to try connect another computer directly.
So i was thinking maybe someone more knowledgable can try a 3c509b in a 8088 and see if the driver actually connect with card.

There is many of us 8088, 8086 owners who lack a NIC and a 3c509b in NE1000 mode maybe an easy way to get them up on internet.
But does it really work, the drivers loaded and configured for sure, but i can not reach the router.
I use NE1000.COM version 11.5.3
JT

Can a packet driver load without a compatible NIC in the computer?

nestor
May 2nd, 2012, 02:01 PM
Tried the NE1000.COM version 11.5.3 packet driver with a 3c509B. It loads but reports a wrong MAC address and mTCP can't access to the network.

mbbrutman
May 2nd, 2012, 02:55 PM
It's not going to work.

Think of a packet driver as the device driver for the Ethernet card. It has to match the Ethernet card, or at least be in the same "family" of chipset that the Ethernet card uses to have a chance. You don't expect a Tseng Labs VGA card to use the driver from an S9 video card, do you?

The 3Com 3C509B (Etherlink III) is a good card, but it is not an NE1000 or an NE2000.

If a packet driver loads it might find some piece of hardware willing to talk to it at the I/O ports it is using. Most Ethernet cards for older machines just use I/O ports and an IRQ. Just because you got a MAC address doesn't mean it worked, or that it is even talking to an Ethernet card.

Compare the MAC address reported by the packet driver to the MAC address printed on the card. If you can't find a sticker on the card with the MAC address then the MAC address reported by the packet driver should at least match the range assigned to the manufacturer of the card. All Ethernet cards have unique addresses, assigned by a central entity. Here is a link to a web site that allows you to look them up:

http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/oui/public.html

The key is the first three octets of the MAC address. Those should match in the manufacturer database. For example, a card that starts with "00-01-01" belongs to 3Com. (If you search for 3Com you will find they have many different assignments, as they have sold a boatload of cards over the years.)

Even with the correct I/O ports selected you have to ensure that the IRQ is chosen correctly, or you will be able to send but not receive packets.

marcoguy
May 2nd, 2012, 03:01 PM
I know this is a little off topic, but will the ne2000 work in an 8 bit slot and a v20?

nestor
May 2nd, 2012, 11:37 PM
So if I understand, we must use the 3c509.com packet driver but it only works in 286+ machines. Why this requirement? Does it use protected mode?

Megatron-uk
May 3rd, 2012, 12:09 AM
My guess is that it uses assembly instructions not present in the 8080/8086 isa.

nestor
May 3rd, 2012, 12:18 AM
The ASM source code of the 3c509.com packet driver is available inside this zip file: http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/3c509116.zip

Megatron-uk
May 3rd, 2012, 12:32 AM
In that case it could probably be modified to work (by someone more knowledgeable on x86 assembly than me!) on 8086.

nestor
May 3rd, 2012, 12:35 AM
I see that the driver has different input routines for 286 and 386:



cmp is_386,0
jne io_input_386
io_input_286:
push cx
shr cx,1
rep insw
pop cx
jnc io_input_286_1 ;go if the count was even.
insb ;get that last byte.
in al,dx ;and get the pad byte.
test cx,2 ;even number of words?
jne io_input_done ;no.
in ax,dx ;yes, get the pad word.
jmp short io_input_done
io_input_286_1:
test cx,2 ;odd number of words?
je io_input_done ;no.
in ax,dx ;yes, get the pad word.
jmp short io_input_done

io_input_386:
.386
push eax
push cx ;first, get all the full words.
shr cx,2
rep insd
pop cx
test cx,3 ;even number of dwords?
je io_input_386_one_byte ;yes.
in eax,dx ;no, get the partial word.
test cx,2 ;a full word to be stored?
je io_input_386_one_word
stosw ;yes, store it,
shr eax,16 ;and move over by a word.
io_input_386_one_word:

test cx,1 ;a full byte to be stored?
je io_input_386_one_byte
stosb ;yes, store it.
io_input_386_one_byte:
pop eax
.286

io_input_done:


Maybe if someone implements a specific 8088 input routine...

JT64
May 3rd, 2012, 03:06 AM
It's not going to work.

Think of a packet driver as the device driver for the Ethernet card. It has to match the Ethernet card, or at least be in the same "family" of chipset that the Ethernet card uses to have a chance. You don't expect a Tseng Labs VGA card to use the driver from an S9 video card, do you?

The 3Com 3C509B (Etherlink III) is a good card, but it is not an NE1000 or an NE2000.

If a packet driver loads it might find some piece of hardware willing to talk to it at the I/O ports it is using. Most Ethernet cards for older machines just use I/O ports and an IRQ. Just because you got a MAC address doesn't mean it worked, or that it is even talking to an Ethernet card.

Compare the MAC address reported by the packet driver to the MAC address printed on the card. If you can't find a sticker on the card with the MAC address then the MAC address reported by the packet driver should at least match the range assigned to the manufacturer of the card. All Ethernet cards have unique addresses, assigned by a central entity. Here is a link to a web site that allows you to look them up:

http://standards.ieee.org/develop/regauth/oui/public.html

The key is the first three octets of the MAC address. Those should match in the manufacturer database. For example, a card that starts with "00-01-01" belongs to 3Com. (If you search for 3Com you will find they have many different assignments, as they have sold a boatload of cards over the years.)

Even with the correct I/O ports selected you have to ensure that the IRQ is chosen correctly, or you will be able to send but not receive packets.

As you said i can not find the given macadress in the lists i find on internet, FE:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF does not seem to appear for any card.
Time to start look for a NE1000 compatible card, problem will be to find a one with TP connection i guess.

Who knows maybe some assembler guru make the 3c509B driver work.

mbbrutman
May 3rd, 2012, 05:02 AM
If your card has an AUI port on it (that looks like a 15 pin D-shell style connector) you can use an external "transceiver" to get on a modern, twisted pair network. Look up the Centrecom 210 series on Google - they work great.

(In the beginning, all Ethernet cards had AUI ports and the transceiver was connected by a cable. The transceiver was known as a "vampire" tap, as it would have a pin that would pierce the thick-net Ethernet cable. Using the same AUI port other transceivers are possible, making it easy to update an ancient card to use a modern network.)

carlsson
May 3rd, 2012, 06:52 AM
JT64, I can keep an eye open for you on the domestic market as well. From personal experience, I think Realtek based cards might be easier to get going in 8-bit mode, but I could be wrong.

JT64
May 4th, 2012, 12:26 AM
If your card has an AUI port on it (that looks like a 15 pin D-shell style connector) you can use an external "transceiver" to get on a modern, twisted pair network. Look up the Centrecom 210 series on Google - they work great.

(In the beginning, all Ethernet cards had AUI ports and the transceiver was connected by a cable. The transceiver was known as a "vampire" tap, as it would have a pin that would pierce the thick-net Ethernet cable. Using the same AUI port other transceivers are possible, making it easy to update an ancient card to use a modern network.)

That seem like a good way to do it, without an oldfashion switch, was there switches that had a connection for AUI ports? I think i had an 8-port(or 10 port) TP switch with a single AUI connection at some point in time.

But first i must get a NIC.

Megatron-uk
May 4th, 2012, 01:29 AM
As you said i can not find the given macadress in the lists i find on internet, FE:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF does not seem to appear for any card.
Time to start look for a NE1000 compatible card, problem will be to find a one with TP connection i guess.

Who knows maybe some assembler guru make the 3c509B driver work.

With all bits set (FF:FF...) I don't think it's actually reading anything as FF:FF... is not a valid ethernet address. Which means that the ne1000 driver isn't talking to it correctly.

nestor
May 8th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

JT64
May 9th, 2012, 12:06 AM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

The packetdriver loading like a charm, tcpdrv likewise. Now i just need to connect it to a router or computer to see if it really works, using ping.
Thank you, i think many people will put this to good use with their 3c509b cards, you assembler guys rather incredible i would not even now where to start.
What tools did you use todo such a thing and how do you know which instructions is 286, do you just keep their equivalent 8086 instruction in the head?

How many (instructions) lines of code did you need to change, how long time?
Would this be viable to put a AWE32 soundcard in an 8088, or does it use the full 16-bit on card for audio?

Thank you (hope it work full way)

nestor
May 9th, 2012, 12:50 AM
Forget the AWE32, it requieres a lot of CPU power to manage the wavetable synth. If you want wavetable MIDI in a 8088 look for a non PnP Sound Blaster 16 (for the MPU401 port) and a real synth like the Roland MT32 or the SCC-55. As a cheaper option, a waveboard like the Yamaha DB50XG / NEC XR385 sounds pretty well.

JT64
May 9th, 2012, 04:50 AM
Forget the AWE32, it requieres a lot of CPU power to manage the wavetable synth. If you want wavetable MIDI in a 8088 look for a non PnP Sound Blaster 16 (for the MPU401 port) and a real synth like the Roland MT32 or the SCC-55. As a cheaper option, a waveboard like the Yamaha DB50XG / NEC XR385 sounds pretty well.

I have a CT1350 inside now terribly noisy, and as midi device the OPL pretty much sucks at least for me. It does have midi out port though, and i have a Roland SC-7 (soundcanvas) laying around here but i do not think i can route the CT1350 midi to both record midievents and play the SC-7.

I guess i can use midi thru to get SC-7 sound while i record and play from sequenser, but it is doubtful games will play over the midi OUT->synth->midi thru->SC-7.

nestor
May 10th, 2012, 02:10 AM
I have a CT1350 inside now terribly noisy, and as midi device the OPL pretty much sucks at least for me.

In a 8088, a CT1350 is a lot better than the PC Speaker :D

mbbrutman
May 10th, 2012, 05:22 AM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

Good work!

I've looked at the Cyrnwr packet drivers before and they are well structured. What assembler did you use - an older copy of MASM?

One thing to keep in mind is that although it worked for this card, getting a 16 bit card working in an 8 bit bus is not as easy as fixing instructions. If the card wants 16 bit I/O and can't be told to use just 8, nothing is going to work.


Mike

JT64
May 10th, 2012, 06:04 AM
Good work!

I've looked at the Cyrnwr packet drivers before and they are well structured. What assembler did you use - an older copy of MASM?

One thing to keep in mind is that although it worked for this card, getting a 16 bit card working in an 8 bit bus is not as easy as fixing instructions. If the card wants 16 bit I/O and can't be told to use just 8, nothing is going to work.


Mike

I just tried the packetdriver with my card and a D-link DI-514 router using a lan port but without any wan connected.... I loaded trumpet tcpdrv.exe ip=192.168.0.2 netmask=255.255.255.0 gateway=192.168.0.255???
Then i used trumpet ping utility at the web config adress 192.168.0.1 that i read webconfig use, the router does not answer and maybe it should not or?

I can see port led flash though like something indeed coming thru to router, but maybe i do this wrong way and must have a web browser to test? this out

nestor
May 10th, 2012, 06:11 AM
What assembler did you use - an older copy of MASM?

One thing to keep in mind is that although it worked for this card, getting a 16 bit card working in an 8 bit bus is not as easy as fixing instructions. If the card wants 16 bit I/O and can't be told to use just 8, nothing is going to work.

I used TASM 4.0. I have 4 3Com Etherlink III (two 3c509 and two 3c509B). The older revisions (without B) don't work in a 8 bit slot, but the newer do.


I just tried the packetdriver with my card and a D-link DI-514 router using a lan port but without any wan connected.... I loaded trumpet tcpdrv.exe ip=192.168.0.2 netmask=255.255.255.0 gateway=192.168.0.255???
Then i used trumpet ping utility at the web config adress 192.168.0.1 that i read webconfig use, the router does not answer and maybe it should not or?

I can see port led flash though like something indeed coming thru to router, but maybe i do this wrong way and must have a web browser to test? this out

It should work with that configuration. I tested mine with IRCjr from Mike.

mbbrutman
May 10th, 2012, 08:06 AM
Make sure that you do not have Trumpet loaded while you are trying to run any of the mTCP applications. Trumpet and mTCP (or WATTCP applications) can not share the same packet driver at the same time.

carlsson
May 11th, 2012, 05:30 AM
Ah, good point made about the B suffix is required to get it to work. Somewhere I've got an Etherlink III, I just need to see if it is the right version and then I can try as well on my XT clone that however already has a good working NIC. It can be interesting to compare network throughput between two different cards, one with manufacturer's original packet driver and one with an aftermarket adapted driver.

SquallStrife
August 12th, 2012, 12:23 AM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

Hi! Just wanted to share my success with this modified driver.

I'm using a 3C509B-TPO in a Tandy 1000RL. I had to put the card in an AT machine first, to disable PnP and set an XT-friendly IRQ with 3C5X9CFG, but after that it worked a treat.

http://i.imgur.com/i7QSTl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BNshNl.jpg

Thanks for making the modification, this helps me out a lot! :)

nestor
August 13th, 2012, 12:49 AM
I'm glad someone finds it useful!

Shadow Lord
August 13th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Okay first off: Great job. This will help some people with the card as the whole driver not running on an 8088 has been a big issue. I don't want to detract from that but I still don't understand why people are beating their head against the wall w/ a 3c509b when a 3c503TP (http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/network-cards/3/3COM-CORPORATION-Ethernet-ETHERLINK-II-TP-3C503-AS.html) will work just fine and is designed for 8bit machines? Aside from the fact that everybody seems to have a few 3c509s hanging around is there some other reason to avoid the 3c503?

carlsson
August 13th, 2012, 01:46 AM
Perhaps due to the fact you just mentioned; a 3C509B might be found at any decent flea market and surely a handful on eBay every month, while a 3C503 might appear on eBay once in a quarter, and often from a seller who knows it is gold and priced thereafter. If there was a good supply of cheap 8-bit compatible NICs, no matter which brand, nobody would really have to spend time to modify an existing driver.

Personally, I was almost certain I got a 509B somewhere to test the driver, but despite looking inside every old PC as well as loose cards in my drawers, I haven't found it yet. Not that I need it, as I already got my 8-bit NIC setup.

SquallStrife
August 13th, 2012, 05:05 AM
Aside from the fact that everybody seems to have a few 3c509s hanging around is there some other reason to avoid the 3c503?

That pretty much hits the nail on the head. I have a shoebox full of 3C509 and 3C509B cards in TPO and Combo forms, and a selection of NE2000 compatibles, but nothing that suited XTs... Until now! :)

nestor
August 13th, 2012, 05:53 AM
That is the reason why I modified this packet driver, I have some spare 3c509B cards and as the packet driver source code was available, the work was not too complicated.

Shadow Lord
August 13th, 2012, 07:31 AM
That pretty much hits the nail on the head. I have a shoebox full of 3C509 and 3C509B cards in TPO and Combo forms, and a selection of NE2000 compatibles, but nothing that suited XTs... Until now! :)

Yes, but thats like saying I have a box of PCI video cards around so lets make it work on the XT. Not an exact analogy but you get the idea. I don't know what you guys consider "gold" but I got a bunch of 3c503s a few months back as NOS for around $18/each shipped. Not exactly cheap but then I am not relying on hacked drivers to make them work.

nestor
August 13th, 2012, 11:33 PM
Yes, but thats like saying I have a box of PCI video cards around so lets make it work on the XT. Not an exact analogy but you get the idea. I don't know what you guys consider "gold" but I got a bunch of 3c503s a few months back as NOS for around $18/each shipped. Not exactly cheap but then I am not relying on hacked drivers to make them work.


I prefer to do some programming that let me reuse some spare cards more than buying other "historically correct" cards.

Shadow Lord
August 13th, 2012, 11:44 PM
I prefer to do some programming that let me reuse some spare cards more than buying other "historically correct" cards.

And more power to you. I prefer to buy the right tool for the right job. Not everything can be fixed with a hammer ;) Sometime the right tool is historically correct and sometime it is not. But it doesn't have to be forced to made to work for your needs.

carlsson
August 14th, 2012, 01:28 AM
Well, to me it sounds like $18 including shipping was a bit of a bargain. At this moment of writing, the least expensive 3C503 I can find on eBay is $29.95 plus shipping. Perhaps if you feel you have a surplus, you can offer some to other people looking for an XT compatible network card? Oh well, now that we got the hacked 3C509B driver it might not be as pressing matter and lucrative business anymore.

Is the issue whether a number of PC XT's and clones will be fitted with hardware not intended for those? In that case, is the XT-IDE project also out of scope, and people should really stick to using various MFM/RLL drives as long as they last?

Shadow Lord
August 14th, 2012, 07:28 AM
Well, to me it sounds like $18 including shipping was a bit of a bargain. At this moment of writing, the least expensive 3C503 I can find on eBay is $29.95 plus shipping. Perhaps if you feel you have a surplus, you can offer some to other people looking for an XT compatible network card? Oh well, now that we got the hacked 3C509B driver it might not be as pressing matter and lucrative business anymore.

Is the issue whether a number of PC XT's and clones will be fitted with hardware not intended for those? In that case, is the XT-IDE project also out of scope, and people should really stick to using various MFM/RLL drives as long as they last?

Unfortunately, I only bought enough for my needs. The key thing is that I did not buy from eBay. I did a Google search and found an online store that had a stock of them. I'll tell you though: I was worried about ordering from them. You never know when you are going to hit a "Code Micro" scam - where everything is in stock and they charge your CC and suddenly its back ordered w/ no refund in sight.

Again for me historic accuracy, while important, is secondary. It is more about getting it to work w/ minimal fuss. The XT-IDE is designed to work on an XT. So it is the right tool for getting an IDE HDD to work on an XT. The 3c509B issue to me is like saying there are tons of cheap generic 16 bit IDE controllers lets see how we can force one to work in an XT. As an exercise in programming/HW modding it maybe cool, but as a guy who just wants to turn on his XT and have it work it is way too much headache. I rather pay more get the right tool (in this case the XT-IDE) and know it will work every time I flip that big red switch.

Just my $0.02 others may disagree specially those with far more technical SW/HW knowledge then myself.

nestor
August 14th, 2012, 11:54 AM
Again for me historic accuracy, while important, is secondary. It is more about getting it to work w/ minimal fuss. [...] As an exercise in programming/HW modding it maybe cool, but as a guy who just wants to turn on his XT and have it work it is way too much headache.

Now that the programming part has been done, there is no more headache. Why complain then? This can't be called modding: the hardware is kept intact and the software modification is compatible with all x86 computers (in fact the modified packet driver is more compatible than it was originally)

SpidersWeb
August 14th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Well I think it's an awesome option for those that have a 3C509B lying around and want to give it a whirl. For me an 8bit network card could cost near on $100 after postage is taken in to consideration (unless I found old stock in China or something). Not a drama for me, because I don't like networking on anything less than a 386 anywho.

I'm not sure on availability in the US but the most common ISA card I find here is the D-Link DE220 series. I must have around ten of them. They're 16 bit Plug'n Play, configuration tool is easy to find, there is drivers for everything from OS/2 LanMan to Windows 2000, and the manual states IBM PC and PC XT compatibility. I haven't tried them in an XT, but I do use them in the 8bit slot on my Toshiba portables (386).

sergey
August 14th, 2012, 01:59 PM
If I remember correctly Realtek RTL8019AS based cards will work just fine in 8-bit slots using NE2000 drivers.
These cards were very popular in 90's (at least in my area), and it looks like there are still some for sale at eBay for $20 or so.

carlsson
August 14th, 2012, 11:29 PM
For that matter, 3Com 3C509B has worked in a 8-bit slot already from day 1, just that you needed a 286 processor in order to use the packet driver. Indeed only a few PC compatibles have that kind of configuration. So what was done was to rewrite the packet driver using 8088 compatible instructions, using the network card in the 8-bit mode that 3Com partially designed it to be used for.

SpidersWeb
August 15th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Yeah maybe think of it less like a 'hack' and more like an 'unofficial patch', fixing those nasty 8088 bugs they had in there ;)

Mike Chambers
August 23rd, 2012, 06:05 PM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

Holy crap, this actually works for me. Good stuff. I am a bit excited, I've got a box full of these 3C509B cards and I've been low on 8-bit ethernet cards for a while. I have a few 8088 machines that need a NIC. I figured the chipset on these 3C509 cards required a 16-bit bus. Thanks for the upload.

EDIT: Just a heads up, it doesn't seem to work with the 3C509B-TP cards. It only works with my 3C509B-TPO cards. The -TP cards try to use IRQ 10, which obviously doesn't exist in an 8-bit system. This is verified in two different machines. The -TP cards are the ones that have a built-in AUI port in addition to the RJ45 port. They might be able to be made to work if the packet driver is modified to be able to tell the card to use a different interrupt. I think the original configuration utility will only work on a 286 or better. I'm going to do some research and look into writing a custom config utility for use on an 8088.

Shadow Lord
August 23rd, 2012, 07:06 PM
Ahhh the problems with "hacks" (not an unofficial patch). Exactly the point I was making, illustrated.... Getting off soap box now...

Mike Chambers
August 23rd, 2012, 10:11 PM
Ahhh the problems with "hacks" (not an unofficial patch). Exactly the point I was making, illustrated.... Getting off soap box now...

Well, the packet driver works exactly like it does on a 286+. This isn't really unexpected behavior. We'll just need a config utility to go with it for some cases.

Another (substantially more ghetto) option would be to solder a wire to bridge the IRQ 10 line on the card to another IRQ line that will work in an 8-bit slot and patch the packet driver to always use that interrupt instead of what the card tells it. :)

Mike Chambers
August 23rd, 2012, 11:28 PM
I have 3c509.c driver from the linux kernel, it has code to do the configuration along with some fairly detailed info in the comments. I should be able to base a config utility for 8088s on this. I'll tinker with this bit tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

basman74
August 24th, 2012, 06:12 AM
Good news! I managed to replace all the 286 specific asm instructions with generic 8086 asm instructions and now the packet driver seems to work in a 8088 based XT machine.
Please test it, you will find the files attached to this post.

Great work nestor! XD Thought this was worth a shot and it has worked for me too! In my case, it's on a homebrew computer system (Flea86) with a some basic 8-bit ISA support bolted on.. (http://youtu.be/UUgE5SxgVqI)

For members who are keen to make this work for them in their XT-class machine, here's what I did:
1.) Install the card into an EISA slot on an (un-powered) 286+ machine first and then power on
2.) Run the 3C5X9CFG.EXE utility (available online) and configure it in the following manner..
- Turn off plug-n-play
- Set the desired IRQ channel & Base address
- DOS client network driver optimisation
- No Modem installed
- Port Transciever = RJ45 (or whatever you prefer here.. :-)
3.) Save settings to the card's on-board EEPROM. exit the utility and power down the 286+ machine
4.) Install newly configured 3C509B card into XT-class machine
5.) Power on PC/XT (or clone) and install nestor's modified 3C509 driver along your TCP/IP apps of your preference (I prefer mTCP :-)

Cheers Valentin
PS: Nestor's modified driver should work with any 3C509B series card (TP/TPO, etc) using the above guide imho, since those last 2/3 letters (ie. 3C509B-xxx) relate to the physical ethernet port options installed on the card (and nothing more?)

Mike Chambers
August 24th, 2012, 10:51 AM
I haven't verified this on real hardware yet, but when I recompile Fake86 without support for 80186/V20 instructions 3C5X9CFG.EXE still runs just fine in it. It should work an a real 8088 as-is.

basman74
August 24th, 2012, 01:36 PM
I haven't verified this on real hardware yet, but when I recompile Fake86 without support for 80186/V20 instructions 3C5X9CFG.EXE still runs just fine in it. It should work an a real 8088 as-is.

Mike,

It still might not work because the card can be configured expecting to see a true 16-bit ISA (ie AT) Bus. I'd be willing to bet that a 3C509B configured in this manner will fail in an 8-bit ISA slot (and no amount of modification of the 3C5X9CFG.EXE utility would help this..)

In the (unlikely?) scenario where one doesnt have an EISA equipped PC, the only other real alternative would be to:
Step 1.) De-solder/remove the little 8-pin EEPROM chip from the 3C509B
Step 2.) Stick the EEPROM into a dedicated programmer
Step 3.) modify the necessary bytes within that EEPROM to tell the 3C509B it is going to live in an 8-bit slot..
Step 4.) Resolder the EEPROM back on to the card.

waltermixxx
August 22nd, 2015, 05:39 AM
Just curious, does anyone have a "pre-programmed" hex file to program a eeprom with these settings?

Or does anyone happen to know if a Tandy 1000 SL/2 with a V30 (I have one on its way) will run the 5C5X9CFG.EXE will run to disable plug and play? :0). In my excitement to get a nic card with an RJ45 connector I purchased a couple on eBay before reading to the end of the thread. (that will teach me).

I also noticed some of the 509b-TPO cards on eBay also have what looks like a memory chip on them, would this be a plug and play rom? Some of the 509b-tpo do not have this extra chip.

One other quic question, I have another nic with the AUI connector on it, if I create a custom cable and pul the R-, R+, T-, and T+ signals can I use it as a regular network hub or switch? Or would there be more to it?

H-A-L-9000
August 22nd, 2015, 09:09 AM
There's more to it (notice the collision detect wires). You'll need a converter cirquit (or in the first place an AUI/BNC or whatever converter).

waltermixxx
August 22nd, 2015, 09:26 AM
Okie doke thanks. I knew there were additional signals on the aui but I was hoping it was "downward lay compatible. So to speak. Thanks for letting me know. I'm hoping some one might shed light on the other inquires in my post. :0). Thanks in advance of any assistance.

Cheers!

waltermixxx
August 22nd, 2015, 05:44 PM
Well I just acquired a Tandy 1000 LT which is a 80286 computer so I should be able to install the two ebay 3C509B-TP cards, boot up dos, and then run the config program to disable plug and play and then pick a suitable IRQ for both the TL and the SL/2 computers. :) so I should be ok. :) Now I have to purchase another XT ISA Compact Flash card from Lo-Tech...

:) cheers. :)

waltermixxx
September 4th, 2015, 04:29 AM
I found the config program that works... :) runs fine on the Tandy 1000 TL :)

griffk
September 4th, 2015, 09:10 AM
And more power to you. I prefer to buy the right tool for the right job. Not everything can be fixed with a hammer ;) Sometime the right tool is historically correct and sometime it is not. But it doesn't have to be forced to made to work for your needs.

This kind of modification of a driver is absolutely valid and in keeping with the history and mechanism of both hardware & software usage, customization, and distribution.

The driver was not "hacked", anymore so than any piece of software that needs to be modified in some sense, to work with a variant on the norm.
I have written and rewritten drivers for all shades of Windows, Linux, Unix 5, VMS, and OS/2 for longer than I care to remember, but NEVER did I consider what needed to be done, a "hack"!

Kudos to the programmer that made this happen!!!

gwk

Caluser2000
September 4th, 2015, 10:26 AM
I found the config program that works... :) runs fine on the Tandy 1000 TL :)Sharing is caring ya know.

waltermixxx
September 5th, 2015, 02:50 AM
Absolutely, I will post the zip file when I get home later today, sorry I should have thought of that...

http://www.siconic.com/download/network/3C5X9CFG.EXE

this is a link to it, i could not attach as it would not let me attach a zip larger than 97k here for some reason :)

please make sure you scan this before running it. :) i scanned it on my pc and it seemed ok :)

CHAD2430
January 18th, 2018, 03:31 AM
Hello. I have just recently tried this out. The packet driver detects my card perfectly, but then DHCP fails to work.

My configuration settings are as follows:

IPADDR 192.168.1.100
NETMASK 255.255.255.0
GATEWAY 192.168.1.1
NAMESERVER 192.168.1.1
LEASE_TIME 86400

43109

Any assistance would be appreciated. Though I know I'm posting on a 3-year old thread that's bound to be dead at this point.

thierry
February 16th, 2018, 08:21 PM
Pic of the card ? , wire problem ?

Trixter
February 20th, 2018, 09:56 AM
Packet driver appears to be working, so two things come to mind: 1. IRQ 3 is already used by something else in the system (do you have a COM2/COM4?) or... 2. You're trying to connect over a wireless bridge that isn't forwarding DHCP, use a direct cable to your router/switch instead.

CHAD2430
April 3rd, 2018, 10:54 AM
Packet driver appears to be working, so two things come to mind: 1. IRQ 3 is already used by something else in the system (do you have a COM2/COM4?) or... 2. You're trying to connect over a wireless bridge that isn't forwarding DHCP, use a direct cable to your router/switch instead.

Sorry for the late reply, I was waiting for my NEC V20 till I came back and tried again.
As it currently is I do not have a COM2, or any COM ports allocated at the time. As for the second solution, it's on a wire going directly to the router.
I appreciate the assistance though. My friend has an IBM XT with a similar card and he claims to have gotten it to work on his machine. I wonder what's preventing me from going further.

Trixter
April 3rd, 2018, 06:55 PM
Sometimes I get DHCP timeouts, but I connected mine to a wireless bridge so that's why I mentioned it.

There is a troubleshooting document included with the mTCP distribution; maybe it has some hints?

David_M
April 3rd, 2018, 07:17 PM
For those having trouble tracking down a card to work in an 8 bit slot... I use an ne2000 clone based on the realtek 8019 chipset with the ne1000 NDIS driver.

Krille
April 10th, 2018, 01:17 PM
My friend has an IBM XT with a similar card and he claims to have gotten it to work on his machine. I wonder what's preventing me from going further.

Make sure you are using a 3Com 3C509B card. The non-B variant doesn't work in 8-bit machines. I don't recall the details but it's in the datasheet for these cards.

Hope this helps!