PDA

View Full Version : Western Digital Caviar 21200 going bad?



Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 01:48 PM
Well, I have a WD IDE hard drive, a caviar 21200. its 1.2GB and I have MSDOS 6.22 on it.

It's my favorite drive, just because of how it looks and sounds, its just cool... but lately when it does its start up seek test it makes a clink noise and the seek test goes longer. The first time that happened I thought it died, but it still booted and I ran scandisk. the surface scan didn't find any bad sectors or anything wrong wrong with it. I can still use it and nothing unusual happens.

do any of you know if this a sign of failure?

Also, I have this IBM model M keyboard, and the lights on it doesn't work, and when I use the keyboard test in a computer diagnostic/benchmark program thing called PCPRO, it fails. my other keyboard is just fine, so it isn't the computer... but the keyboard works just fine when I type with it. Sometimes the Caps Lock light will work, but just for a few seconds, then shut off again. IDK whats up with that. I was gonna take it apart and take a look, but I don't have the right screwdriver for it, and none of the sockets for my dad's ratchet will fit inside the small holes for the screws.

EDIT: I made a video of it and the keyboard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIcrcmNqfgw the third time the drive starts up in the video, it works normally.

Stone
May 9th, 2012, 01:57 PM
the surface scan didn't find any bad sectors or anything wrong wrong with it. I can still use it and nothing unusual happens.
FWIW, this drive does not show bad sectors. It automatically replaces known bad sectors with sectors that are reserved at the end of the drive for just such a purpose. Not until all these 'reserve' sectors are used up will it actually show a bad sector. So, if you do see bad sectors, it's only one of very many and you may consider the drive ... shot!

Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 02:42 PM
I have a Maxtor hard drive that has bad sectors, that one used to be my dos hard drive, then I switched to this one. But I don't think that bad sectors would mess with the seek test. But that click/ting sound just makes me cringe every time it starts up.

Fredbug
May 9th, 2012, 02:54 PM
I used to see that trouble with the western digitals. Backup your data and hope for the best.
I doubt it has long to live.

Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 03:32 PM
that sucks, I really liked this one... might have to copy everything back to the other maxtor 1 gb drive that has bad sectors.

I guess I'll be looking for another western digital caviar drive of around that size :P :(

Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 03:38 PM
Also, why does Maxtor have a bad reputation, I see tons of people on the internet/youtube dissing on maxtor, I've had quite a few maxtor drives, and none of them failed on me.

Chuck(G)
May 9th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Some Maxtors had issues with the power control circuitry, leading to interesting "singing" noises, eventually leading to failure. Google "singing Maxtor" for details.

Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Huh, that's odd. That sort of reminds me of that alarm sounding noise that IBM HDDs, that are in laptops (like my Dell Latitude), make when the heads get stuck to the platter (I think).

Do you know how far back this issue goes? does it affect IDE drives like around 2-3 GB? I've had this 3gb maxtor thats been in my computer since it was made, and it still works.

Failing hard drive are kinda creepy, you never know when they will strike...

Chuck(G)
May 9th, 2012, 06:14 PM
How far back? I've got an 1140XT MFM 5" Maxtor that acts like that.

Tr3vor
May 9th, 2012, 07:40 PM
the 3gb one is probably around '97. I also have one thats like 2gb from 2000, but that one has bad sectors so I tend to not use that one...

but if there are MFM drives that do that, I'll bet that mine would be in the singing-prone area, hopefully that never happens...

what would the most reliable HDD maker be for hard drives around 1-3gb? I want reliable stuff :P

marcoguy
May 9th, 2012, 07:52 PM
I've got an old Maxtor 1924 SCSi that sometimes just maked no attempt to spin up and sometimes spins up fine. Any advice?

krebizfan
May 9th, 2012, 08:10 PM
I've got an old Maxtor 1924 SCSi that sometimes just maked no attempt to spin up and sometimes spins up fine. Any advice?

What else is in the system? My first thought is a heavily loaded system would not be supplying sufficient power at the time the drive checks. If so, many older SCSI models had jumpers to delay drive startup until the other components stopped their initial startup surges. Check that the power connector isn't pulling loose; resolder it if it is. Other causes are more complex to fix and I will defer to people who have succeded at it. Also, double check termination.

Are you sure that the drive is from Maxtor? Is it 2GB full height 5.25"? Maxtor doesn't seem to have any drives numbered that way in my records but Micropolis does. Micropolis drives were not well made when a 2GB drive would have been released so having your drive work sometimes at close to 20 years old is impressive.

Chuck(G)
May 9th, 2012, 08:39 PM
Well, the Micropolis 1924 (http://www.mfarris.com/hard_drives/micropolis/micropolis_1924-15.html) is a 2.1G SCSI FH drive.

The hard drive business vanished into oblivion--whatever there is left of it probably resides in a cardboard box in the archives of the Singapore Ministry of Finance.

marcoguy
May 10th, 2012, 01:47 AM
Oh, my mistake! It is Micropolis. It is in my 5160 with an IBM HH floppy drive and a HD floppy drive. I just looked at it a second ago. It is very similar to the drive Chuck linked to. He linked to the 1924-15. This is just 1924. It is 2.4GB and sounds like a jet plane with sort of a whine when it starts up. The only two older hard drives I have are this and an ST-225. This thing is in an ST02 SCSI controller with BIOS 3.2 that does support non-Seagate drives.

DOS lives on!!
May 10th, 2012, 03:26 AM
leading to interesting "singing" noises, eventually leading to failure. Google "singing Maxtor" for details.
Yep, that's the infamous "Maxtor Music" you'll see in some videos. I've got three Maxtors that do that. They sound really neat when they're all plugged in and turned on at the same time.

I may have a WD drive that is around the 1-1.2gb mark. I'll check later, and I really do think at one point I did have a Caviar 2100.

Stone
May 10th, 2012, 03:50 AM
I'll check later, and I really do think at one point I did have a Caviar 2100.Is that what you really mean or do you mean a 21000?

DOS lives on!!
May 10th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I probably meant the 21000, but I do have that too. I have WD drives in very close sizes to what you need.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 12:33 PM
What's the general price range for those sizes of WDC drives?

Chuck(G)
May 10th, 2012, 12:52 PM
What's the general price range for those sizes of WDC drives?

Then or now? I don't recall them as being expensive back then--your typical consumer-grade IDE drive, along with the Seagates and Maxtors. I've got a shelf full of various sub-4GB IDE drives--they just sort of accumulated like lint. I suppose that I ought to get rid of some of them, seeing as how they're not used.

SpidersWeb
May 10th, 2012, 01:04 PM
I'm foreign, but I got 2 boxes of sub-20Gb drives (from 100Mb to 20Gb, lots of 1-4Gb drives) for $10.
If I was closer I'd just send you one.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 01:11 PM
I mean what should I pay nowdays, I'd want a western digital caviar drive around the 1-2gb range. they just rock, and I love the sounds they make.

SpidersWeb
May 10th, 2012, 01:25 PM
They should not be expensive at all and should be very easy to find.

Here is one for $5 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Digital-Cavier-31000-1083-8-Mb-IDE-3-5-desktop-hard-drive-HDD-1-Gb-WD-/170836661871?pt=US_Internal_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item27c6a8966f

Another impressive sounding drive (but without the performance to back it up :P ) are the Quantum Bigfoot drives. I hated them when new (was like a hard drive for the unemployed :P) but now days I actually really love how loud the head movements are.

Chuck(G)
May 10th, 2012, 01:34 PM
I still have a bunch of the Bigfoots--4, 8 and 8GB capacities. They aren't fast, but for me they worked really well and very reliably.

I'd always considered them (and the Caviars) to be pretty much silent in comparison to the 5" FH hard drives--some of which are loud enough to interfere with your concentration.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 02:02 PM
Aren't the bigfoot drives like 5.25", but its more like quarter height or something like that? I wouldn't have a clue as to where to put a drive like that in my computer, since the 2 drive bays are filled with cd-roms :P

SpidersWeb
May 10th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Yeah they're 5.25", maybe 1/3 height but really take up a half height bay.
Just grab another 3.5" drive for $5-10, will be sweet as.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Wait, how is that? isn't the voice coil the cause of the singing? don't MFM hard drives use stepper motors for the heads? or is it the spindle that does that? hmm...

yeah I think I'll save up for a similar WDC drive.
Yeah, this kinda sucks, cuz I'm sort of attatched to this drive, this computer doesn't sound right without that certain HDD in there... oh well, better get used to it.

Chuck(G)
May 10th, 2012, 03:04 PM
My understating is that it's the spindle motor control that causes the music, but that's just an educated guess.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Well, I got home and decided to start playing around with the hard drive.

So I stuck it in another computer, where the drive would have a vertical orientation (with the plugs facing up), and it started up with a regular seek test, no clicking, so I restarted it like 3 or 4 times and it had no klink sound. so then I went ahead and hooked up the ide cable and stuff up to that computer (a P3 emachines eMonster). I tried running some tests in a program called PCPRO, and the failed on this computer, and some even resulting in the click of death... scared the shit out of me. so I restarted the computer and it works again. then the pcpro made it do the click of death again.

So then I went back to my Pentium computer, where the drive would have a horizontal orientation and plugged it in, and it hasn't done the clink since, and I've rebooted this thing like 5 times. I ran PCPRO again and it passed all of the tests that it failed while in the vertical orientation, and now its just sitting here running as it should. but the seek test takes a tiny bit longer than usual to complete, not as in slower, but longer.

This is making me curious... and still no bad sectors...

krebizfan
May 10th, 2012, 05:46 PM
This is making me curious... and still no bad sectors...

Depending on how WD implemented bad sector replacement/relocation, you might not see any bad sectors until the disk runs out of spare sectors.

Ole Juul
May 10th, 2012, 06:09 PM
I was gonna take it apart and take a look, but I don't have the right screwdriver for it, and none of the sockets for my dad's ratchet will fit inside the small holes for the screws.

You can buy thin walled socket drivers. I just took a regular one and ground it down a bit so it would go in the hole of a model M. A cheap one from the dollar store is probably easier to grind and nothing lost.

SpidersWeb
May 10th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Looking inside wont tell you anything btw, any faults will be invisible to the human eye and then it likely wont work when you put the cover back on (depends on how dusty the room is and on how dependant the drive is to the torque on the cover/headstack screws). Opening a hard drive is something you do when it's 100% buggered or you really don't care about it.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 06:26 PM
He's talking about my IBM Model M problem ;)

the only hdd I'd take apart is a 100% click of death victim with no hope of survival. I wouldn't take this WDC apart even if it did have the click of death.

SpidersWeb
May 10th, 2012, 06:40 PM
oh whoops, nevermind me then, I wasn't here :P

I have a keyboard drama also - been putting it off - my plan is to replace the cable and if that fails, try and replace the chip, if that fails I'll just go cry.
Hopefully yours is just the cable or a dodgy connection.

Tr3vor
May 10th, 2012, 07:25 PM
could it just be caps, are there caps in Model M keyboards? it works 100% besides the lights...