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marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 05:19 AM
I have a laptop. It has an Intel Core i5 CPU clocked at 2.3GHz, a 500Gb HD, and a blu-ray/DVD/CD drive. I was thinking about what wold be the best operating system for this fine machine, and I decided on DOS 6.22 and WFW 3.11! I just have one problem. I have no way to boot off a floppy disk. I was wondering if any of you know of a bootable cdrom version somebody has made or a way to make my own out of the setup disks and some sort of way to put those files on a CD and make it bootable.

Old Thrashbarg
June 13th, 2012, 05:31 AM
Dunno about a CD, but it's pretty easy to make a bootable USB flash drive. Just use the HP USB format utility (http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197), tell it to create a DOS startup disk, and point it to the DOS 6.22 system files. Once it's finished doing its thing, you can copy the rest of the DOS files over.

Also, you probably can boot off a USB floppy drive... it might take a little bit of fiddling with boot settings in the BIOS, but most systems still support such a thing.

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 05:50 AM
I have booted off the USB drive before. Can I do the same with my SCHC memory card?

VileR
June 13th, 2012, 06:43 AM
How would DOS 6.22 / WFW 3.11 deal with such hardware? Maximum partition size would be 2GB... and video/sound drivers for Windows are probably out of the question.
Would be interesting to see nonetheless :)

Agent Orange
June 13th, 2012, 07:05 AM
I have a laptop. It has an Intel Core i5 CPU clocked at 2.3GHz, a 500Gb HD, and a blu-ray/DVD/CD drive. I was thinking about what wold be the best operating system for this fine machine, and I decided on DOS 6.22 and WFW 3.11! I just have one problem. I have no way to boot off a floppy disk. I was wondering if any of you know of a bootable cdrom version somebody has made or a way to make my own out of the setup disks and some sort of way to put those files on a CD and make it bootable.

That's an impressive laptop. One problem that I see by having DOS/WIN 3.11 as your main OS is that you forfeit most of your laptop's functionality. You will not have the benifit of your native high resolution screen for one thing. Also, you will be hard pressed to find drivers for the video, sound, and USB, CDROM if at all. Why not opt for Vista or W7 and setup a dual boot machine which would give you the best of both worlds. You have a fairly large HD and all you would need to do is make a 2 GB partition for DOS/WIN 3.11 and the rest for your Vista/W7 OS. Unless you use a boot manager, like System Commander, or something similar, you will need to install DOS/WIN 3.11 on the 1st or "C" partition.

PgrAm
June 13th, 2012, 07:40 AM
How would DOS 6.22 / WFW 3.11 deal with such hardware? Maximum partition size would be 2GB... and video/sound drivers for Windows are probably out of the question.
Would be interesting to see nonetheless :)

at 2.3 GHz a sound blaster could probably be emulated

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Okay, Let me tell you what I did. I used that USb format thing and a DOS 6.22 boot disk to make a bootable DOS 6.22 diskette. My 500Gb HD has Windows 8 Release Preview on it. I can transfer files to the USB flash drive directly from WIndows 8, and I of course was able to transfer WFW 3.11 to it. I have to find a driver that will support my SATA CDROM drive properly because MSCDEX won't recognize it. (do they even make such a driver?) and maybe I can find a display, sound, and network driver somewhere out there or I can even make one myself (not that I know how to!) It's such a time paradox running Windows 3.1 on a 17 inch laptop that has a sticker that says "Designed for Windows 7". So far, I have booted Windows 3.1, messed with the display drivers (had no luck) and played a game of solitaire. Where should I go from here?

RWallmow
June 13th, 2012, 08:31 AM
at 2.3 GHz a sound blaster could probably be emulated

To that note, I believe there is a generic vesa video driver floating around that will do higher (though probably not wide screen) resolutions on newer PCs under Win3.1

you take a hit with no acceleration with a generic driver, however on a system that fast, anything meant for Win3.1 you will probably not notice it.

And many, modern NICs have DOS drivers, so network isn't out of the question either on this.

However I agree as the main OS, this is not very good use of this hardware, I vote you dual boot it too, lol.

RWallmow
June 13th, 2012, 08:36 AM
Okay, Let me tell you what I did. I used that USb format thing and a DOS 6.22 boot disk to make a bootable DOS 6.22 diskette. My 500Gb HD has Windows 8 Release Preview on it. I can transfer files to the USB flash drive directly from WIndows 8, and I of course was able to transfer WFW 3.11 to it. I have to find a driver that will support my SATA CDROM drive properly because MSCDEX won't recognize it. (do they even make such a driver?) and maybe I can find a display, sound, and network driver somewhere out there or I can even make one myself (not that I know how to!) It's such a time paradox running Windows 3.1 on a 17 inch laptop that has a sticker that says "Designed for Windows 7". So far, I have booted Windows 3.1, messed with the display drivers (had no luck) and played a game of solitaire. Where should I go from here?
I sincerely doubt you will find a sata driver, however you might be able to put the SATA into compatibility mode in the BIOS, and then a generic IDE CD-ROM driver might pick it up, you need more than JUST mscdex though, mscdex is just the part that assigns the drive letter to the CD-ROM and tells DOS what to do with it, its not the CD-ROM driver itself.

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 08:40 AM
I do! I've been running Windows 8 on this since the betas came out! I just want to be able to run WIndows 3.1 on it when I feel like it. Is there anybody out there who could write up a 16 bit video driver for the Intel HD Graphics controller? I know nothing about writing drivers, so please excuse my ignorance if this is a lot to ask.

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 08:42 AM
I sincerely doubt you will find a sata driver, however you might be able to put the SATA into compatibility mode in the BIOS, and then a generic IDE CD-ROM driver might pick it up, you need more than JUST mscdex though, mscdex is just the part that assigns the drive letter to the CD-ROM and tells DOS what to do with it, its not the CD-ROM driver itself.

I have a utility called Microsoft MS-DOS CD-ROM Extensions 1.25. It is basically a generic IDE driver, MSCDEX, and a few utilities like EJECT, LOCK, etc. I have tried on multiple occasions to change the SATA emulation mode on the CD drive through the BIOS. The setting is just not there.

RWallmow
June 13th, 2012, 08:44 AM
I do! I've been running Windows 8 on this since the betas came out! I just want to be able to run WIndows 3.1 on it when I feel like it. Is there anybody out there who could write up a 16 bit video driver for the Intel HD Graphics controller? I know nothing about writing drivers, so please excuse my ignorance if this is a lot to ask.

Try this driver (http://www.michaelv.org/computers/guides/svga.zip) first, it might just do the trick, its a generic VESA driver, will take performance hit, but that's so fast I doubt you will notice.

EDIT changed link...
Credit where credit is due: Driver link came from this page (http://www.michaelv.org/computers/guides/win31.php#svga)

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 08:54 AM
It didn't work. It asked for a file that wasn't there.

RWallmow
June 13th, 2012, 09:03 AM
Which file? It could be one that's part of windows install disks, keep in mind this driver is a hack, so its not perfect...

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 09:13 AM
It asks for a file on the Windows installation disk 2. When I select the directory with disk 2's files, it says that it's not there.

RWallmow
June 13th, 2012, 09:39 AM
Whats the file name? Also this seems to be from a hacked GERMAN driver, so it could possibly be on a different disk number, you could try pointing it at each of the "disks" to see if it finds it, or just google the file name and see if you can download a copy and put it where it can find it.

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 09:43 AM
I tried all of the disks. It's a .fon file. I forget the rest of the name

SpidersWeb
June 13th, 2012, 12:04 PM
You may have lots less trouble if you aquire VMWare Workstation and just run it as a virtual machine.

I often use VM's for installing old operating systems as tests. Seems a much better use of resources, and because it wasn't written 20 years ago, it allows you to map modern day devices to the virtual machine - including networking and USB drives etc. Can be run fullscreen at the press of a button, and you can hop out whenever you need to (e.g. download that abandonware) and hop back in where you left off.

Edit: like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY9at0cR-OE&feature=related

Ashtechsmith
June 13th, 2012, 12:06 PM
I have saved setup old files for MS DOS 6.22 on my hdd & now want to create MS DOS discs but when running the setup.exe it is asking for A: floopy disc & I don't have floppys anymore??? I tried to create CD ROM by copying the same files into NERO but it will still ask to create floppy disc. How can I use the old MS DOS 6.22 files to run from CD ROM ???

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 01:01 PM
I have done that multiple times. The whole point of what I'm doing it trying to get it running natively on modern hardware. Here's the support page for my laptop. It's only got Windows 7 drivers, but it at least tells you my hardware.

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-home.pl?mdl=VPCEJ1AFX&LOC=3#/howtoTab

Mad-Mike
June 13th, 2012, 03:38 PM
The big caveat here is being able to make the laptop useable enough.

One big hint I can give is that sometime, you can use drivers that are for an "ancestor" to the current device. I'm not sure how long this stretches as I have not done this in ages, but sometimes researching the chipsets and various other "bits" of the hardware in the computer can bring back results of what it evolved from. I recall reading somewhere years ago that one was able to use an NVIDIA MX440 PCI 128MB card with a driver from a VooDoo card in Windows 3.1x.

Also, the widescreen issue, there was some guy awhile back I found through google who had hacked the drivers for Windows 3.1x to allow widescreen resolution, and he had an explaination on how to do it. I'm not sure if it's still there but worth a look, it could at least get you the right aespect ratio if nothing else.

And there is a way for him to get the full capacity of his drive seeable to Windows 3.1x, actually, two....

1 - He could use a partition editor program to create FAT-16 partitions on the machine (up to 4 2.1GB partitions maximum), and have that be his workspace for Windows 3.1. This would be the easliest...

2 - The Other would be to use the DOS for Windows 95, 98, or otherwise DOS 7.xx with FAT-32 support, partition the drive as normal, install Windows 3.1x, disable 32-bit Disk Access in control panel, install a new custom driver for that that is availible somewhere on the interwebs, and then run it from there, giving him Windows 3.1x on his machine, minus all the headaches of FAT-16 limitations.

I've done both, the 2nd one is a tad trialsome though, it does not always work.

Stone
June 13th, 2012, 03:53 PM
And there is a way for him to get the full capacity of his drive seeable to Windows 3.1x, actually, two....

1 - He could use a partition editor program to create FAT-16 partitions on the machine (up to 4 2.1GB partitions maximum), and have that be his workspace for Windows 3.1. This would be the easliest....I dunno, seems somebody's math is faulty here, it's either yours or mine. :-)

4 2.1GB partitions = 8.4GB. With a 500GB. drive there's still 491.6 GB. unused. Full capacity seeable to WIN 3.1? That surely doesn't do it.

Ole Juul
June 13th, 2012, 04:17 PM
I guess that marcoguy was thinking to have a really snappy machine, however for DOS/WIN3.11 I think that a PI, or even a PIII, would be a better choice for that purpose. This is just not a suitable machine for that stuff.

The same kind of effect would be better achieved using FreeBSD for the command line and something like Fluxbox for the DE. It's a proven way to go for a snappy box and you won't be wasting your resources. Besides, if (like me) you like DOS, you'll absolutely love BSD. ;)

SpidersWeb
June 13th, 2012, 04:53 PM
Yeah, and they're not all big clunky things either, my Pentium III Toshiba's cost around $20 6 months ago and they're sleek, quick, and came with a brand new battery and docking station. 4:3 LCD makes resolutions in older versions easy too, although I just threw 98 on mine.

No harm in it if he's dual booting tho, that way he can use the other 95% of his computer in Windows 7/8.

marcoguy
June 13th, 2012, 05:40 PM
The whole point I am doing this is so I can say I did. You've seen plenty of p3s running wfw311. How many i5s have you seen doing it? And for the last time, I know it won't use all of my rescources. I have windows 8 for that. I have heard of, but not found, a patch that gives windows 3.1 the capability to run xp programs. Any info on this?

SpidersWeb
June 13th, 2012, 06:17 PM
Haven't seen that unfortunately, but it is quite popular to throw the 3.1 GUI on top of XP and pretend. I did that when Windows 95 first came out, was a little too attached to the old UI. They kept the ability right until XP SP1.
I'd love to be able to run XP programs even on Win98 :/

Edit: but there was the WIN32S patch which allowed for some 32 bit Windows apps to run, just got reminded of that off-site. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win32s should let you run a few Win95 compat apps.

Mad-Mike
June 13th, 2012, 06:29 PM
I dunno, seems somebody's math is faulty here, it's either yours or mine. :-)

4 2.1GB partitions = 8.4GB. With a 500GB. drive there's still 491.6 GB. unused. Full capacity seeable to WIN 3.1? That surely doesn't do it.

Pardon that first line, I meant to say make AS MUCH seeable as possible. Not everything. The second method makes all of it visible, but the first gives as much space as he can aquire using FAT16

Caluser2000
June 13th, 2012, 10:14 PM
It's such a time paradox running Windows 3.1 on a 17 inch laptop that has a sticker that says "Designed for Windows 7". So far, I have booted Windows 3.1, messed with the display drivers (had no luck) and played a game of solitaire. Where should I go from here?You Sir have reach the ultimate aim of Windows- to play solitaire.

SpidersWeb
June 13th, 2012, 10:40 PM
Don't forget SkiFree!

Ole Juul
June 13th, 2012, 11:11 PM
I'd be looking at the first browsers. Netscape 1.x or perhaps even Cello. Apart from those novelties, I'd try to configure the DOS better - you also have a lot of batch files to write now. :)

marcoguy
June 14th, 2012, 06:11 AM
I have been configuring autoexec.bat all along, if that's what you mean. I have never had the need to write any other batch files. I played Solitaire because that was the first Windows game I ever played that wasn't Pinball in Windows 98 so it has some sentimental value. Of course, I have done more since. I've been installing things like Win32s so it's getting pretty beefed up. If I can find a network driver for the Atheros AR9285 wifi adapter or the Realtek PCIe GBE network adapter, I can install all sorts of internet things like TCP/IP 32b and MS Internet Tools 5.01. I'm limited to 256Mb of flash drive space, so things might get a little tight in there with all the extra drivers and programs and about a million games when I'm donne with it.

Ole Juul
June 14th, 2012, 12:17 PM
I have never had the need to write any other batch files.

Amazing. Well if you only access files from Windows you probably only need the autoexec and the win.bat ones. However if you want to do much in DOS they are essential. You did title the thread "Ms-dos 6.22 cd", so I'm still assuming that you were serious about the DOS part. :)

For example I get tired of "dir /o-g" over and over so I just type "d". In fact I do the same on my *nix boxes. It's not just a matter of laziness and also a matter of time and (my poor) memory. To FTP to other computers one shouldn't have to type the whole string, with IP, login and password, followed by a bunch of directory changes. That's pretty geeky but embarrassingly inefficient when it's for a computer you access often. This approach also works well for a dim-wit like me. Starting games in DOS is another place where you might want, or need, to have certain parameters set in the environment and a batch file is called for. And what about spell check, and on and on. Anyway, do as you please, I'm just giving subtle hints about how to use MS-DOS if you want to play around with it. :)

SpidersWeb
June 14th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Don't bother with the Wifi, even if you get the card working, you still need to be able to connect and you'd likely have to remove security from your router to do it (things like WPA2-PSK etc).

But the wired networking should be quite doable because RealTek is quite good with drivers because their chips are used in lots of weird situations. A quick google and I found lots of DOS drivers for their chips on their own webpage - including NDIS2 (Win31/LanMan etc). Even if you can't find your specific model, you could get lucky and find an older model that your chip is still compatible with.

http://www.realtek.com/Downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=13&PFid=5&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

marcoguy
June 14th, 2012, 04:24 PM
Amazing. Well if you only access files from Windows you probably only need the autoexec and the win.bat ones. However if you want to do much in DOS they are essential. You did title the thread "Ms-dos 6.22 cd", so I'm still assuming that you were serious about the DOS part. :)

For example I get tired of "dir /o-g" over and over so I just type "d". In fact I do the same on my *nix boxes. It's not just a matter of laziness and also a matter of time and (my poor) memory. To FTP to other computers one shouldn't have to type the whole string, with IP, login and password, followed by a bunch of directory changes. That's pretty geeky but embarrassingly inefficient when it's for a computer you access often. This approach also works well for a dim-wit like me. Starting games in DOS is another place where you might want, or need, to have certain parameters set in the environment and a batch file is called for. And what about spell check, and on and on. Anyway, do as you please, I'm just giving subtle hints about how to use MS-DOS if you want to play around with it. :)

I play with MS-DOS plenty, trust me. :D I just haven't used batch files. Thanks for the tip!

marcoguy
June 14th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Sorry to double post, but I just got Windows 3.1 online! Yay! I am currently posting from Opera 3.62. Internet connection speeds things up a lot because I don't have to reboot into Windows 8 just to download a driver then reboot again with the USB stick in so I can install it.

RWallmow
June 14th, 2012, 07:11 PM
Sorry to double post, but I just got Windows 3.1 online! Yay! I am currently posting from Opera 3.62. Internet connection speeds things up a lot because I don't have to reboot into Windows 8 just to download a driver then reboot again with the USB stick in so I can install it.
Nice, well done! Are you using the built in NIC, or did you have to go with a more supported PCMCIA NIC?

I have a small hand full of even WIFI PCMCIA cards that have DOS/WIN31 support, however like SpidersWeb said, they don't run with WPA or even WEP, I actually run a separate "unsecured" GUESTNET 802.11b/g that is user authenticated via web page (so I don't have to worry about people leeching or using my connection for illicit things).

marcoguy
June 14th, 2012, 07:39 PM
It turned out I could use the onboard rj45 adapter in my laptop. I had the PCI version and the drivers and I didn't know it! I don't have any other wifi adapters other than the one in my laptop and another one of the same model from my old laptop. So much for wifi. I'm trying to use uide as my cdrom driver, and it does recognize the cdrom, but it says there's an XMS error. I really want to install PC-DOS 2000, as it's my favorite version, but I can't find a bootable install CD anywhere.

Caluser2000
June 14th, 2012, 11:10 PM
Do a search for DOS 7.1 iso created by Wengier of China Dos Union.

marcoguy
June 15th, 2012, 07:02 AM
Yes. I know all about that and would definitely use it, but I have never gotten Windows 3.x to load in it. I even tried the patch here (http://www.gaby.de/ftp/pub/win3x/osr2fix.exe), but I couldn't get it to work. How is Freedos as an option?

Caluser2000
June 15th, 2012, 01:24 PM
That's interesting because there's still a lot of old post confirming that win/wfw 3.1 worked perfectly well with it. The original page when it was released even showed win 3.1 running on it iirc. Even a cut down variant of win 3.x with lfn support called mini windows could be run http://www.computing.net/answers/windows-31/remember-this/11331.html

marcoguy
June 15th, 2012, 01:28 PM
Where can I get that?

Caluser2000
June 15th, 2012, 02:04 PM
One of the VCF members may have a copy. FreeDos should be a viable opion as it's designed for more modern hardware.

There's other discontinued commercial Dos variants out there such as IMSs Real/32 (a multi-user variant of dos) for 386s and higher. It installs directly off the CD and mentions in the manual is supports a single session of Windows in standard and enhanced mode(how well I don't know) and has a Dos session switcher. An interesting thing about it is it supports Fat32 off the bat and has built in support for ide LS-120 and Zip 100 drives