PDA

View Full Version : IBM 1501492 HDD controller and dual ST-412s



SteveMarg
July 10th, 2012, 08:19 AM
Hi there.

I have an IBM 5161 Expansion Unit. I am trying to use an IBM 1501492 HDD controller with 2 ST-412s and I am unable to low level format either drive. Sometimes, the controller only sees one HD.

There are no switches or settings on the card, but is there something I should be setting on the HDs? Is there something I could be doing wrong with the cabling?

I have tried both the SpeedStor and Advanced Diagnostics methods to low level format, and have been unsuccessful.

I would appreciate any help. I'm still new to vintage computers (up until a few months ago, vintage for me was 2001) :D

Thanks,
Steve

Stone
July 10th, 2012, 09:49 AM
Steve, it depends on two things mainly.

1) What you are using for a HD cable. Does it have a twist between the two Hard Drive connectors. If so, the twist must between the correct wires and they are *not* the same wires as the twist in the Floppy Drive ribbon.

2) What the Drive Select jumper is set on each of the two Hard Drives and this differs depending on whether or not you are using a control cable as described in 1, above, or it's a control cable that has no twist int it.

IOW, it ain't simple. :-)

SteveMarg
July 10th, 2012, 11:05 AM
Stone,

I checked the cable. It appears to be a legitimate HD cable.

As for the drives, I guess they use a shunt block. Can you tell me how I should set these?

Also, if there is any documentation for this, I will certainly read it.

Thanks,
Steve

Stone
July 10th, 2012, 11:15 AM
I assume you mean 'with a twist' by legitimate because a no-twist cable is also 'legitimate'. :-)

Set the first drive to DS1 and the second to DS2.

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-drives-hdd/seagate/ST412-10MB-5-25-FH-MFM-ST412.html

MikeS
July 10th, 2012, 11:16 AM
I checked the cable. It appears to be a legitimate HD cable.What is a "legitimate" HD cable?


As for the drives, I guess they use a shunt block. Can you tell me how I should set these?As Stone pointed out in #2, it depends on what that "legitimate" cable looks like.

Also, the data cables have to be connected to the appropriate connectors to match the cable/location/Drive select settings.

MikeS
July 10th, 2012, 11:19 AM
I assume you mean 'with a twist' by legitimate because a no-twist cable is also 'legitimate'. :-)

Set the first drive to DS1 and the second to DS2.HUH? With a twisted cable????

Stone
July 10th, 2012, 11:22 AM
My bad, set both to DS2.

Thanks again, Mike.

SteveMarg
July 10th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Thank you everyone. Everything is set correctly. I am beginning to think the problem is a bad controller card.
I'll have to see if i have another one to try.

Stone
July 10th, 2012, 12:15 PM
SpeedStor perform controller diagnostics. Run it again.

Another thought... try one drive at a time. Use the staight thru section of the cable -- ignore the twisted section -- set drive to DS1.

mcsew2k
July 10th, 2012, 09:46 PM
Also, only the hard drive at the end of the cable should have the terminator installed.

pearce_jj
July 10th, 2012, 11:24 PM
Just wanted to check whether DMA channel 3 is being used by anything else (especially, anything in the main system unit).

modem7
July 11th, 2012, 02:20 AM
Cabling diagram for two ST-412s on a IBM/Xebec controller at:
http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5160/misc/5160_hard_drive_cabling_double.jpg

SteveMarg
July 11th, 2012, 06:31 AM
Modem7 - Hmmmm. It appears that I may have a terminator on both drives. I will remove the terminator from Drive 0 and see if that helps.

I think the chip marked T-RES in the picture is the terminator:

9652

modem7
July 11th, 2012, 11:58 PM
I think the chip marked T-RES in the picture is the terminator:
Yes. T-RES will be short for Terminating Resistor'.

SteveMarg
July 12th, 2012, 05:33 AM
This is just bizarre.
I removed the terminator from the first disk, and I get a 1701 error. I put it back and the error goes away.
I'm back to thinking there is something wrong with the controller card.

Stone
July 12th, 2012, 05:38 AM
At the risk of sounding like an echo, I'll repeat what I said in a previous post in this thread.

1) Run the controller diagnostics on SpeedStor.

2) Try ONE drive at a time.

It's far easier to diagnose a problem with fewer variables.

Stone
July 12th, 2012, 05:43 AM
This is just bizarre.
I removed the terminator from the first disk, and I get a 1701 error. I put it back and the error goes away.
I'm back to thinking there is something wrong with the controller card.FWIW, the first disk is the one nearest to the controller, not the one on the end, after the twist, unlike the A:, B: configuration on the floppy ribbon cable.

MikeS
July 12th, 2012, 06:45 AM
FWIW, the first disk is the one nearest to the controller, not the one on the end, after the twist, unlike the A:, B: configuration on the floppy ribbon cable.Also unlike the floppy configuration (and contrary to what someone ;-) said in post #7), both drives are set to DS1 (or DS0 if they're labelled 0 to 3).

Stone
July 12th, 2012, 07:39 AM
Jeez, it took you long enough to catch that one! I might have to look for another proofreader if this continues. :-) :-)

SteveMarg
July 12th, 2012, 08:14 AM
I repeat - BIZARRE.
Speedstor shows the controller as fine.
I have tried it as single drive and dual drive.
Cable is correct
Drive select is correct.
First drive has no terminator

I plugged in an ST11 controller and two ST-251 drives and it formatted them just fine. :(

Stone
July 12th, 2012, 08:30 AM
Try one of the ST-251 drives on the other controller. If it goes OK then you probably have two bad ST-412s. Where did you get the 412s? Were they ever working that you know of? I have a pile of FH drives, AKA doorstops, that don't work for one reason or another. So, don't feel too bad. :-) Even tanks don't last forever.

MikeS
July 12th, 2012, 08:55 AM
I repeat - BIZARRE.
Speedstor shows the controller as fine.
I have tried it as single drive and dual drive.
Cable is correct
Drive select is correct.
First drive has no terminator

I plugged in an ST11 controller and two ST-251 drives and it formatted them just fine. :(Not really that bizarre; old drives like this are pretty likely to fail.

No offence, but terms like "legitimate" or "correct" are not really very useful.

With each drive connected by itself to the control cable connector closest to the controller:

Terminator must be installed on whichever drive you're testing.
What are the labels on the controller's data connectors and which one are you connecting the data cable to?
What are the labels on the drive's select jumpers and which one is jumpered?
Does the drive spin up, and does the stepper initialize?

Where are you located, in case someone local can help you out?

That controller does work with ST-412 drives I assume?

Stone
July 12th, 2012, 09:20 AM
Mike, I think this controller only works with this drive or something very similar to it. And, I think instead of jumpers this drive has a shunt block for the drive select.

modem7
July 12th, 2012, 06:03 PM
I have tried it as single drive and dual drive.
When you attempted single-drive configuration, was it done exactly per the diagram at: http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/5160/misc/5160_hard_drive_cabling_single.jpg ?
And I mean exactly. For example, that diagram is not the same as: "The second drive was also connected but because I didn't connect power to it, it's the same thing as the drive not being there."

If single-drive configuration doesn't work, I see no point in attemping dual-drive configuration.


Speedstor shows the controller as fine.
In the context of a 'controller' test, to keep in mind is the fact that it is not possible for SpeedStor, or the controller's built-in self test functionality, to test all components on the controller.

SteveMarg
July 12th, 2012, 06:15 PM
I did use the exact configuration per the diagram.

I'll try the other Xebec controller tomorrow and see what happens.

Thank you to everyone for the help and suggestions.