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SteveMarg
July 19th, 2012, 12:13 PM
Hi there.

Is IBM DOS 3.3 supported with the ST-412 drive? I mean, can you load it on the HD and boot from it?

It seems that as long as I stay at DOS 2.x, I can boot from the HD. As soon as I try to load the system files from 3.x on the HD, I get all kinds of errors.

I have tried formatting the HD with SpeedStor, ADV Diag disk, and FDISK (both 2.x and 3.x). It just doesn't seem to work.

I tried a newer 20MB HD, and it worked fine.

Has anyone run into this?

Thanks,
Steve

SpidersWeb
July 19th, 2012, 12:20 PM
I can't think of any reason off the top of my head.
I have a spare ST412 which is currently booting MS DOS 4.01, I'll try a PC DOS 3.3 install on it in the weekend if this goes unanswered - will give me something to do later on.

What are the errors you are getting and what type of machine is this?

Stone
July 19th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Could you be more specific on the 'all kinds of errors'? Please try to report them verbatim.

SteveMarg
July 19th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Once I have formatted the drive, either with the 3.x or the 2.x FORMAT command, when I try to transfer the 3.x system (SYS:C) to the newly formatted drive, it fails. I can then switch boot disks, try 2.x, and it works fine.

Errors I receive are TRANSFER FAILED, NOT ENOUGH SPACE ON DESTINATION DRIVE, and sometimes it will just hang.

Having tried two different types of drives, it must be something with the high-level formatting on the ST-412.

The floppy drives and disks are 360K.

ibmapc
July 19th, 2012, 04:02 PM
Once I have formatted the drive, either with the 3.x or the 2.x FORMAT command, when I try to transfer the 3.x system (SYS:C) to the newly formatted drive, it fails. I can then switch boot disks, try 2.x, and it works fine.

Errors I receive are TRANSFER FAILED, NOT ENOUGH SPACE ON DESTINATION DRIVE, and sometimes it will just hang.


Having tried two different types of drives, it must be something with the high-level formatting on the ST-412.

The floppy drives and disks are 360K.

Have you tried "Format c: /s" ? The /s switch should cause sytem files to be transfered after format completes.

mikey99
July 19th, 2012, 04:58 PM
Hmm, I have DOS 3.3 on two different ST-412 drives. I recall doing the low level
format through the IBM Diagnostics Diskette, then fdisk, then format C:, then SYS C:.

GottaLottaStuff
July 19th, 2012, 05:14 PM
What if you copy a random file to the ST-412, then check the directory to check file size and free space? It sounds as if only part of the drive is being partitioned or formatted, if you're getting a "not enough space" error.

Stone
July 19th, 2012, 05:52 PM
Are you trying to install 3.x after you have installed 2.x?

If so, is 2.x MS-DOS as opposed to PC-DOS?

If so, try to install 3.x after removing 2.x IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS manually. It's possible that PC-DOS cannot install over MS-DOS and the 2.x system files are causing this problem.

Agent Orange
July 19th, 2012, 08:23 PM
When you have tried all of the above, and if you don't succeed, you may want to FDISK the drive when you change OS's, then reformat.

modem7
July 19th, 2012, 11:18 PM
If I use IBM DOS 3.3 to format my hard drive, and do it the long way (no /S with FORMAT), and do things in the wrong order:

A:\>format c:
A:\>copy command.com c:
A:\>sys c:

No room for system on destination drive

The "No room for system on destination drive" error message is misleading.
Early DOS versions require that the two files copied over by SYS be the first two files on the drive.
SYS should only be used directly after FORMAT C:

WMH
July 20th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Don't know if this helps, but here is the exact hard drive format procedure as described in the MS-DOS 3.3 User Guide I bought today for $5. :)

I'm assuming these instructions will be largely the same for PC-DOS 3.3

1. Make sure that your MS-DOS system disk is in drive A:
2. Type format c: /v /s
3. Give your drive a name, and then type N to exit Format.
4. Type copy a:*.* c:
5. Make sure to store your system master in a safe place. (Very important! ;) )

SteveMarg
July 21st, 2012, 01:06 PM
Thank you to everyone for their replies. I did get everything loaded using comment #10, but the system will absolutely not boot from the HD.

I tried another ST-412, as well as a different set of disks...same result.

I tried an ST-4026 drive....worked like a charm.

Oh well. I'll write this off as another of life's mysteries.

Stone
July 21st, 2012, 01:23 PM
Try this on the 412s... 'fdisk/mbr'. It will freshen the boot record and that just might give the drive(s) a chance to boot.

modem7
July 21st, 2012, 01:55 PM
I tried another ST-412, as well as a different set of disks...same result.
I tried an ST-4026 drive....worked like a charm.
So, two ST-412s did not work but an ST-4026 did.

What is the computer (IBM XT, XT cone, IBM AT, ... ) ?
What is the make/model of hard drive controller?
If the computer is an IBM XT, or clone, when you tried the ST-412s, was the hard drive controller configured for [306 cylinders / 4 heads] ?

wdegroot
July 31st, 2012, 06:47 PM
a coupe of things to consider
a st-412 yoy did not say yjhr capacity
the st-413 is a 10m drive and the st-419 is a 15m drive
It must be a full height drive I have neverseen.
It could be the controller. the xebec has switches at the read ( usually) The wd 1003 2/3 length card with a short bios is often fixe=d at one drive size. any newer bios chip will work.
I saw the old ones today.
Dos 3.30 will work with up to 32 m3gs /partition.
I do not think it is true that dod 2.10 is limited to 16 megs. I tried it and the st-225 fdisked formatted ok.

if you have spinrite or norton dislk doctor try testing the disk for bad sectors. bad sectors IF THEY are INCREASING
mean a drive is on it's way out. but after 40 years keep using it.
the hidden files with pc and ms are different so the fdisk is a good suggestion. but after formatting the drive test it.
If you have a system that will boot from cd Hiren's boot cd is a good source of useful tools

lucasdaytona
July 31st, 2012, 07:10 PM
Try a low level format, I was having erroneous disk full messages here with a ST238R, and the low level format solved it.

MikeS
July 31st, 2012, 10:29 PM
1 - Check that controller is compatible with the drive and jumpers (if any) are set correctly.
2 - Low level format the drive.
3 - Fdisk to create partition(s); make sure to set Primary partition Active.
4 - Format with /S option.
5 - Copy DOS files to hard disk.

pearce_jj
July 31st, 2012, 11:04 PM
The MBR switch didn't arrive until much later I thought (v6, possibly), but it could well be a boot record incompatible with your CPU causing the hang. Low-level format will of course wipe everything out, also I have a simple utility to do the same by erasing the first few sectors of the drive here (http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/downloads/temp/WIPEDISK.rar) (note, needs a capital C to confirm the delete). Either way, reboot, fdisk and make new primary and active partition, reboot then format /s, then should be good :)

wdegroot
August 1st, 2012, 09:52 AM
sometimes we do not realize the very old systems require more to make them work. like the MBR switch
and the requirement to 1- sys c: 2- copy command.com c: afterwards,That went away with later OS ,
The xebec controller-very slow
and the wd 1003 wth the short bios chip
not the "super formatter bios"

and the jumper required to let the user to specify the heads and cyl.
( common 10 and 20m drives can be set by jumper on the wd1003)