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View Full Version : CP/M Version 2.2 on TRS-80 Model 4D



Knuckledragger
August 24th, 2012, 07:54 AM
Would anyone be kind enough to tell me if CP/M Version 2.2 could be ran on a Tandy TRS-80 Model 4D? If so would it be a fairly straight -up process or would it involve some major tweaking or whatever?

The reason I ask is that I found where a place calling themselves California Digital is offering NOS copies of this software with a huge documentation package on eBay for $15.00 USD and $6.00 USD standard shipping. The listing states that the copies they have are labeled for the Xerox 1810 Sunrise laptop. Would that perhaps be a problem? The sellers FB is not exactly stellar however from what I could tell it seems O.K. For that price it is less than a case of Heineken here in SOCAL. I basically have no experience with CP/M what so ever. I saw it running on a friends computer many years ago but that is about all it amounted to. I have read a lot of stuff regarding Gary Kildall and his legacy, especially his invention of the BIOS. He was definitely a very gifted individual and one we all owe much to I feel. It is very sad that he passed away so young; I can only dream of what the man had left to contribute had he not been taken away so early!

I have always wanted to try it and this appears to be an affordable chance for me.


I realize that is a lot of question with maybe a little too much comment but for anyone willing to help me out I thank you very much in advance.

P.S. I forgot the link to the software on eBay; I thought it might help if anyone could help me out on this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Research-CPM-2-2-operating-system-/160374687456?pt=US_Operating_Systems_Software&hash=item25571386e0

Gary:cool:

kyeakel
August 24th, 2012, 09:50 AM
Two answers:
1) the 4D will run cp/m, I have one and got disks from Ira Goldklang's website.
2) cp/m is customized for each computer so the diskettes from the 1810 won't boot on the 4D.

If you don't have other cp/m documentation it's probably worth the $15 just to get an original copy. All the commands etc will be the same, just the diskette format, and cbios and other low level files are different for each computer.
Kipp

Knuckledragger
August 24th, 2012, 07:12 PM
Two answers:
1) the 4D will run cp/m, I have one and got disks from Ira Goldklang's website.
2) cp/m is customized for each computer so the diskettes from the 1810 won't boot on the 4D.

If you don't have other cp/m documentation it's probably worth the $15 just to get an original copy. All the commands etc will be the same, just the diskette format, and cbios and other low level files are different for each computer.
Kipp

Thank you very much for giving me the straight and skinny on my questions regarding the CP/M; it is greatly appreciated. I thought perhaps I would receive the answer you shared regarding the discs for that Xerox laptop and that they would not work on the Tandy. The truth about that is though, that I am so dumb regarding that subject in that I did not even know that Xerox made computers! I am pleased to learn that CP/M can be run from the Model IV. I am however familiar with TRS-80 .com. He is a really nice guy. I do not know him personally nor have I met him face to face but I have had two or three email correspondences with him concerning some software titles I purchased from him in the past.

I also thought the same about the documentation package included with that CP/M package I enquired about. Though there is a definite use for the PDF, MS Word type, or DjVu documents, personally for me there is still something to be said for kicking back with the hard copy with a good cup of JOE or cold brewskie depending on the season.

As far as the items on your standing wish list, about the only thing I know about S100 Bus systems is that David Lightman, AKA-Mathew Broderick used an IMSAI in the motion picture WarGames in the early 1980ís to almost blow up the world! For what it is worth though, I do not forget those that are gracious enough to take their valuable time to assist me in my endeavors; and with your permission, should I come across any components or systems of that architecture you will be the first to know; then you can make your own assessment of their value or desirability. Again, thank you.
Gary :cool:

leeb
August 25th, 2012, 03:00 PM
THEY ARE STILL selling those??? Might have to get one just to have it!

In fact, if your 4D has the 128k expansion, Monezuma Micro 2.2 for the Model 4 can use that extra RAM as a 'RAMdrive''... (drive M: )!

I am running it on my 4p (with 3.5 drive modification) and an internal BOOTABLE HD (which you unfortuantely cannot do as your 4D does not have a 'bootable' ROM... :( )
... tho you CAN use external HDs with it! :D

It the 2nd best CP/M Ive ever used... (1st is Pickles & Trout on a Model 12/16 that could use the 2-sided 8-inchers! Lifeboat could not... at that time)

:D

Knuckledragger
August 30th, 2012, 10:05 PM
THEY ARE STILL selling those??? Might have to get one just to have it!

In fact, if your 4D has the 128k expansion, Monezuma Micro 2.2 for the Model 4 can use that extra RAM as a 'RAMdrive''... (drive M: )!

I am running it on my 4p (with 3.5 drive modification) and an internal BOOTABLE HD (which you unfortuantely cannot do as your 4D does not have a 'bootable' ROM... :( )
... tho you CAN use external HDs with it! :D

It the 2nd best CP/M Ive ever used... (1st is Pickles & Trout on a Model 12/16 that could use the 2-sided 8-inchers! Lifeboat could not... at that time)

:D

Thanks for the input. I find that interesting. I have not been able to get back here since posting my last thank you; it has been a hectic week. Concerning the Model 4D that I have, it only has the stock 64k of memory in it but I do have the original Tandy shipping box with inserts and shipping label on it; how rare is that? I have been thinking of attempting to upgrade it to 128k and I think it may be possible. I have another Model 4 main board with all of the chips intact on it. It is the one I bought off eBay before I found VCF and received it all busted up in the box. According to my research some of the earlier Model 4 computers require a special PAL Chip to be inserted into a socket after the removal of a shunt that is present on the board and from what I have read those are as rare as hens teeth now. I believe the last reliable source of them dried up with the death of Stan Slater, the man who used to run a TRS-80 website and sold the kits through his site and on eBay as well; however, the Model 4D does not suffer from this from what I can ascertain, though it is so hard to find information regarding any of this.
On the subject of them still offering that package, I think that seller has a standing auction of that item and they simply list it again when it expires. I actually found the CP/M by accident while searching for a Tano Dragon Color Computer, the cousin of the Tandy COCO. It seems the seller also has a small boat load of those for sale as and keeps them on eBay as well. I plan on buying the CP/M package this week after I do some crunching on my funds and then hopefully I can find the copy of it that was mentioned above on Ira’s site. Someone bought two Model 4's last week on eBay for $129.00 plus shipping. One was a 64k and the other one was a128k model; they both worked. I would have bought them both but I could not afford it and the shipping out here to SOCAL. Again, thank you to all for the help.:cool:

jharre
August 31st, 2012, 08:07 PM
You might want to check http://www.manmrk.net/. They used to have a ton of archived CP/M stuff for the Mod 4.

leeb
September 1st, 2012, 03:57 PM
Thanks for the input. I find that interesting. I have not been able to get back here since posting my last thank you; it has been a hectic week. Concerning the Model 4D that I have, it only has the stock 64k of memory in it but I do have the original Tandy shipping box with inserts and shipping label on it; how rare is that? I have been thinking of attempting to upgrade it to 128k and I think it may be possible. I have another Model 4 main board with all of the chips intact on it. It is the one I bought off eBay before I found VCF and received it all busted up in the box. According to my research some of the earlier Model 4 computers require a special PAL Chip to be inserted into a socket after the removal of a shunt that is present on the board and from what I have read those are as rare as hens teeth now. I believe the last reliable source of them dried up with the death of Stan Slater, the man who used to run a TRS-80 website and sold the kits through his site and on eBay as well; however, the Model 4D does not suffer from this from what I can ascertain, though it is so hard to find information regarding any of this.
On the subject of them still offering that package, I think that seller has a standing auction of that item and they simply list it again when it expires. I actually found the CP/M by accident while searching for a Tano Dragon Color Computer, the cousin of the Tandy COCO. It seems the seller also has a small boat load of those for sale as and keeps them on eBay as well. I plan on buying the CP/M package this week after I do some crunching on my funds and then hopefully I can find the copy of it that was mentioned above on Ira’s site. Someone bought two Model 4's last week on eBay for $129.00 plus shipping. One was a 64k and the other one was a128k model; they both worked. I would have bought them both but I could not afford it and the shipping out here to SOCAL. Again, thank you to all for the help.:cool:

You have a 4D... the newest version they made before stopping... you should have NOTHING to do but put in the 2nd bank of chips... just make sure they are the same speed... 150 to 100 are the likely markings... just try to get the same speeds as you have in there.

:D

Knuckledragger
September 1st, 2012, 05:00 PM
You have a 4D... the newest version they made before stopping... you should have NOTHING to do but put in the 2nd bank of chips... just make sure they are the same speed... 150 to 100 are the likely markings... just try to get the same speeds as you have in there.

:D

Thanks for the lead on the other web source; I will check it out later.

On the subect of the possible 128k upgrade I thought the same thing about the chips. One thing that is different though and major, is that Tandy condensed most of it down to one board on the 4D. So I am not certain they are the same speed and such as the earlier Model 4's. My big problem is I am simply out of room at present with all of my collection sitting around on shelves and such. I have several 1000's sitting on shelves with monitors. At present I still have my old CM-5 hooked to a TX which I swap over to the SX or 1000. Then I have my CM-11 on my TL. Then there is one of my COCO 3 models stitting on a shelf with my CM-11 for it. Over in another corner is my 4D under the plastic cover. And that does not even include my 486 boxes and such or the busted Model 4 sitting under a shelf not to mention my sort of up to date Dual Core systems. My bedroom looks like a hoarders hermit cave at present with tons of stuff in boxes I have no room to sit out. I have a soon to be three year old grandson with me here and anything I leave unattented for more than three seconds is, in his opinion, free game for his facination and exploration. (HA!) I love him to death though; he is my pride and joy in my old age now. I let him play on one of my Toughbook CF-29 laptops and he lugs it around watching Sponge Bob on Netflix via the wireless in the apartment. He is a strong little guy concidering the weight of a CF-29, they are not for the weak to lug around to say the least. Its not like it is a 4P or Osborne but he is only three. Its cute to watch him go get the charger for me to plug in for him when the battery starts to get low; he knows when that little blue battery in the tool bar gets low it is time to go and grab grandpa by the fingers. He can fire it up if it is not on and he waits for the XP Pro to finish starting up; then he double clicks on the Netflix shortcut on the desktop I placed there for him and fires up his Sponge Bob cartoon; he hasn't quite figured out how to skip to another episode yet unless the one he is watching ends first but he does know how to click on the arrow to start another episode from there once an episode has ended. That is all off topic I know; but my point is that I am afraid to take the 4D into the front room and break into it and not be able to finish in one swoop. Little Nathan would definitley take a screw driver to it if I were not watching. If you know anything about toddlers then you know that turning your back on them for anything longer than three seconds is probably "TOO LONG."

When that CP/M package gets here I thought if anyone was interested I would scan the manual to PDF or DjVu format and if anyone wants it I would send it too them. I'm not excatly worried about getting busted for infringement. I don't think the original owners of the material actually care at this point from all of the files that are all ready out there being swapped back and forth regarding CP/M.

But anyway, thanks again for all of the help and advice.

Gary