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dongfeng
May 20th, 2006, 05:49 AM
I've (hopefully) come up with a nice IBM XT that might be making it's way into my collection soon, the only problem is that there are no disks with it. I do have the diagnosis disk for an AT (version 2.03), will this do the job on the XT?

Also, what floppy disks will work on the XT? I think it still has the original 360KB drive, I have some (new, sealed) DS/DD 5.25" floppies from my BBC, will I be able to use them in the XT after formatting?

The only problem with this XT is that it is missing it's keyboard, so if anyone over here in the UK (or will ship to the UK) wants to sell one....... :)

Thanks in advance...

mbbrutman
May 20th, 2006, 08:04 AM
You need the diagnostics disk for a PC or XT, not an AT. Running the AT diagnostics on it is pretty much pointless.

The good news is that the disks are easy to transfer electronically - there is no copy protection. (And given that you have the machine, which had a diagnostics disk with it, copyright should not be an issue.)

As for the keyboard, you can use a PC keyboard, a PC XT keyboard, or an older (mid to late 80s) Model M. Older Model Ms will figure out they are on an XT class machine and dumb down accordingly. Newer Model Ms (1994 ?) don't seem to do that. Or find an older clone keyboard that has the XT/AT switch on it.

Micom 2000
May 20th, 2006, 10:14 AM
I've never run across that model M tip before. I tended to assume using a non-XT keyboard would do dire things. Fortunately I've always had a surplus of IBM XT keyboards. I always loved the things and would pick any up I ran across in thrift shops. Many of them are now in need of repair.

I just checked the model M I'm typing this on and it's dated 1989. This opens up the possibility of using a PC or XT in my workstation array with my Data Switch box. I'm only using 3 with a common KB and monitor at present.

Any gotcha's involved other than a PS/2 and monitor adaptor?

Lawrence

mbbrutman
May 20th, 2006, 10:19 AM
The older ones work fine .. you just need the right sized plug. My older Model Ms have removable cords so that I can substitute the correct size of cord/plug. The cheap adapters work too.

I've used several older Model Ms on a PCjr (with a specific PCjr to PC keyboard adapter) and I'm using a Model M now on a PC XT.

I haven't checked the pinout, lately, but I don't think that you will smoke anything if you use the wrong keyboard on a machine. The main difference is in the 'command set' that the keyboard and machines understand. PCs and XTs understand 'command set 1', while the AT introduced 'command set 2'. Extended keyboards came later and speak 'command set 3'.

Command set 3 is a superset of command set 2, so you can take any extended keyboard and use it on the oldest AT, including those whose BIOS doesn't support F11 and F12. (And of course, if you press those keys don't expect much .. the BIOS will see them but not do anything.) Command set 2 is very different from command set 1, and hence the problem in putting most newer keyboards on PCs and XTs. The older Model Ms handle this, but newer ones don't.

dongfeng
May 20th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the tips, especially about the kayboards! The machine hasn't arrived yet, but it should do within the next week. Seeing if I can get the keyboard and diagnosis disk sorted before it arrives :D

Shame about the AT diagnosis disk as I have one to hand, but I have managed to find an image of the XT disk on the Internet. Now I have to figure how to attach a 5.25" disk to my Win98 machine to make a copy of it. There where two XT "Guide to Operations" and Diagnosis disk folders on eBay last week too :(

Luke
May 20th, 2006, 12:21 PM
http://www.uncreativelabs.net/downloads/ - here you 'll find diag disks. Any PC would work with 360kB 5.25" FDD. Except my one ;), I connected 1.2Meg FDD (it was, and it is still working good on 386) to my comp and when I was trying to open disk it displays blue screen or resets. But my computer is running under Win XP...

dongfeng
May 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Thanks!

I heard that you can't put the 5.25" disk on an XP machine. I've just tried my drive on my 333MHz formatted with DOS 6.22, but I think the drive is dead, it doesn't seem to be able to read disks...

Jorg
May 21st, 2006, 05:18 AM
Thanks!

I heard that you can't put the 5.25" disk on an XP machine. I've just tried my drive on my 333MHz formatted with DOS 6.22, but I think the drive is dead, it doesn't seem to be able to read disks...

My 5.25" drive works fine under XP. It might depend on the bios of your machine though, not on the OS.

Luke
May 21st, 2006, 11:26 AM
Hmm... of course you can put 5.25" drive in XP machine and XP 'll support it, but you could have compatibility issue. My BIOS support 360kB/1.2mB drivers. What's wrong with your 5.25" FDD? It power up?

dongfeng
May 21st, 2006, 12:06 PM
My drive does power up, but it doesn't seem able to read anything when a disk is inserted. Is there anything recommended to clean the heads with?

the xt guy
May 22nd, 2006, 05:24 AM
I know a 360K 5.25 disk drive is not supported in Windwos 2K, so I assume it will not work in XP either.

When I was using a previous motherboard, I dual booted into either W98SE or Win 2k. (I had the 98SE on the computer because 2K would not work with the 360K 5.25 drive I had installed.) I would attempt to access the drive and give some kind of message about I/O error.

When I rebooted into 98SE, it worked well. I searched on the 'net and discovered Win2K did not support 360K drives.

Win 2K does support 1.2 meg. 5.25 drives, but not the 360K ones.

If you try to format and write to, a 360K disk in a 1.2 meg. drive, you can have problems with that as well.

dongfeng
May 22nd, 2006, 08:01 AM
Thank you for the information. I have a spare '98 machine doing nothing, so it seems like the perfect candidate for a 5.25" drive :D

How can I tell if the drive is 360k or 1.2MB? You can't format and write files to a 360k disk in a 1.2MB drive?

mbbrutman
May 22nd, 2006, 08:28 AM
By the model number on the driver perhaps?

Google ... Google ... Google ...

dongfeng
May 22nd, 2006, 10:02 AM
The drive I have found, nothing turns up on the serial number! But I think I've found another one, that is certainly 360k. We'll see...

mbbrutman
May 22nd, 2006, 11:33 AM
I wouldn't look at the serial number ... the model number is what you need. If the drive doesn't have a model number somewhere I'd be really suprised.

carlsson
May 22nd, 2006, 01:28 PM
It is however possible that someone has made 3rd party floppy drivers for 2K/XP that would support 360K drives as well, if you can live with using unsupported/unsigned drivers. I don't know of any, but I'd google to see if they exist.

dongfeng
May 23rd, 2006, 11:07 AM
After all that, I've just won a pack set of the XT Guide to Operations, BASIC and XT Technical Reference on eBay for 0.01! The quoted 5 shipping, so it's not bad. Let's hope that Diagnosis disk is okay.

The 5.25" floppy on the PC will still come in very handy though :D

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/28/28/59_1_b.JPG

Jorg
May 23rd, 2006, 11:35 AM
After all that, I've just won a pack set of the XT Guide to Operations, BASIC and XT Technical Reference on eBay for 0.01! The quoted 5 shipping, so it's not bad. Let's hope that Diagnosis disk is okay.

The 5.25" floppy on the PC will still come in very handy though :D

http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/28/28/59_1_b.JPG

DROOL... !