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View Full Version : Xbox and iPods...bleah!



NathanAllan
June 13th, 2006, 06:51 AM
The kid wants an X-box or psp and an iPod. He has an mp3 enabled cd-player and a gamecube, and I want him to expand on those. Not to mention that it's *cheaper* to run those systems and expand on those compared to the xbox and ipod.

I was looking at gamecube accessories and saw that there are hundreds of things that can be done with it. Hooray for developers! There's even a linux for it with a hardware tweak along with the os. From all I'm reading, I think I want one! And the accessories for the gc have been around forever and now they're on clearance in some places online. Kid tells me that he wants either an xbox or psp. I'm trying to get him to develop on the gamecube. Not develop like program, but just to see what his system can do with different accessories that are out there for it. I think he's falling for the craze of it all. The xbox's are cool, but he is totally discounting that he has a fully capable gamecube and told me that since he doesn't have that many games for it (in reality, that many games that he is interested in) he wants a new console. I would rather get him a few games and some accessories rather tan plop the cash down for a new xbox.
He also doesn't realise that to get all the graphics and sound from the xbox, he'll need a new tv with all the features that'll take advantage of all the video and sound that the thing puts out. We haven't even done that for the gc yet! We've been able to look at the graphics it has, but the sound is going through the speakers in the C= monitor or the television speakers.

He also wants an mp3 player cause there are a bunch of kids at school that have 'em. He has a kickarse cd player that'll play mp3's from a cd. Specifically he wants an iPod. I told him that to use an ipod, he's gonna be completely computer dependant, and he'll have to get mp3's from somewhere. I found an mp3 player that has 512mb of memory for about 20-50 songs depending on the quality he wants, and he said "that sucks." WHAT!!?? I could only DREAM of having a walkman when I was a kid that held that many on a tape! Anyway. The cd player that he has can play any audio cd and is not locked to working with the computer only. And if he wants 50 songs, put 'em in lower quality and burn em to a cd. He didn't like that option, but doesn't realise that IF he had an ipod, he'd be totally dependant on this computer to put the songs on it IF he can get them. Since he can't get them, he can't burn em to cd's right now. Tenage logic baffles me sometimes. I just have to remember that it is all based on the commercials he's been force fed as he watches tv.

Any thoughts?

atari2600a
June 13th, 2006, 07:11 AM
An xBox or a 360? (BIG differance)

I'm probobly the only, or one of the only, active gamers in here, so if I where you, I'd trust me (wait...Is that correct syntax?) on what I'm about to say.

The GameCube had an early death this generation. The capacity of the discs (I think it was 1.2 or 1.6GB) simply wasn't enough for developers to work with. (xBox, xBox 360, & PS2 use standard DVD's; 4.7GB) Though a great system with extremely good games, It just died due to a lack of 3rd party support...

If your kid's asking for an original xBox, just say no to that. It'll be dead by the end of the year. If it's a 360, however, consider it, It's gonna be around for the next 5 years. If you're a big spender, get a PS3. It will be $600, $500 for a stripped down version. The Nintendo Wii, though, seems the best to me. Nintendo is putting a BIG 'no age limit' marketing strategy on it (meaning that anyone from 5yr to 50yr will be able to pick up the controller & play it), The controller design is absolutely ingenious (If you haven't seen it, think of a television remote w/ a three-dimentional pointing device, & an analog stick attachment with a gyroscopic sensor), Plus, it'll be less than $250! (Both PS3 & Wii come out in November)

carlsson
June 13th, 2006, 07:36 AM
How about your son is saving some money from a weekly allowance? Those new generation video games are quite expensive, not to mention the games. Maybe he thinks you're "made out of money", while it may not be the case.

A lot of people praise iPod. I only know that they're highly attractive to muggers. If he would get one of those and bring it to school, he better keep it very safe or someone would steal or rob it from him by the end of the week. A cheaper USB memory/MP3 player of 512-1024 MB maybe isn't as cool, but I would think it is more than enough. I have a 256 MB player loaded with ~60 songs (128 kbps, around 3 minutes each), and I would not be able to come up with another ~60 songs (legal or illegal) that I'd want to listen to.

atari2600a
June 13th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Indeed, new hardware is prone to be stolen. In the 8th grade, I got my DS stolen, 2 freaking days after it's release! I payed for it w/ my own money too!!!!

carlsson
June 13th, 2006, 08:04 AM
Probably you should never bring any item worth more than $30-50 to common places (at least if you are small and/or rather defenseless). Same about flashy mobile phones.

I don't have any children, but can understand the desire to keep up with the other kids. The latest gadgets are as much status symbols as truly wanted for their function, and I'd suppose your coolness factor and ability to be "in" may depend on those. In the mid-80'ties, there weren't so many mobile gadgets popular to bring along; some G&W games, perhaps a Walkman. Other stuff (like a C64) was too big to carry around so you'd invite your friends to have a look and be amazed. It also was a time when few people ever had heard of mobile phones, and they were trunk-sized anyway. Maybe it was easier to be a kid the less temptations there were.

NathanAllan
June 13th, 2006, 06:13 PM
He wants a 360, and after what you say I might do something about it. I still think there's more life left in the gamecube though. What can I say, I'm an experimenter and I think everyone oughtta be, heh. Obsolete? Take it apart and see what you can upgrade. I was actually thinking of getting him one of the cheaper mp3 players with 512mb for about $50. A whole lot less money than an ipod but ouch, still. I had a walkman lookalike when I was a kid and never took it to school (for some reason having a radio nowadays in school is *not* against the rules like it was for me (???)). Now that the gc has been made into a linux box it could be developed further. Just looked up xbox at target.com, $699? <gulp>

I'm not getting no PSP, that's for sure. I'd rather get him a GP32 whatsitcalled from GamePark. At the rate sony is churning out systems (anyone for that matter) the psp will be obsolete soon anyways. The GP at least is linux and open source.

Saving an allowance is a good idea, but it got suspended when we caught him with p0rn. He had a videotape (took out the tape and put it in another case, cool points for that) and had a bunch of downloaded movies from the net. That's not the only thing he lost, but that's neither here nor there. I could save it for him kind of en absentia I suppose. $700 is a lot of allowance, though.

NathanAllan
June 13th, 2006, 06:21 PM
just found it at walmart for $399, what a relief. What the heck kind of accwssories are worth an extra $400??? I guess it comes with a bunch of games. Still considering a gamepark machine, though. Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe his dad and I can go in half each (he's my stepson). $200 is much more manageable.

Terry Yager
June 13th, 2006, 06:23 PM
Sounds like your kid is as spoiled as mine were at that age (not my fault, blame the mother). I always tried to make them *work* for whatever they wanted, same as the rest of us.

--T

Terry Yager
June 13th, 2006, 06:34 PM
I used to give my son, Jeff, around $10.00/hr for helping me wrench on carz, cut firewood, etc, but it was also a learning experience for him. Nowadayz, he's *almost* as good a mechanic as I was at his age, he knows how to stick-weld, (a dying art these dayz), and he handles a chainsaw like a pro. I think I done good with him. BTW, My daughter ain't far behind either...

--T

carlsson
June 14th, 2006, 02:23 AM
Nathan, I think the Xbox 360, just like the upcoming PS3 and Wii, comes in different configurations depending on how much you need in terms of online play, hard disk size and other features. However, an upgrade later may cost more than if you had bought it full featured to start with. $400 for a 360 sounds quite reasonable, but I don't know the US prices.

Of course, from a homebrew/hackers perspective, the GameCube still has a lot of life - remember we're on a vintage computing forum, and several of us still hack, program or otherwise make use of 10-15-20-25 year old systems. From a commercial gaming perspective, it will fade soon if it already haven't. I can't recall if Wii will be GC compatible, but even if it is, it won't make people develop more games for the GC platform.

On the handheld market, don't forget Nintendo DS. It is a bit cheaper than PSP, not quite as powerful but maybe more innovative and has 15 years of legacy support from the GameBoy series, an area that Nintendo has dominated despite all competition.

Terry: there is something special about women with chainsaws. ;-P

atari2600a
June 14th, 2006, 10:31 AM
Yes, what he said about the DS, except the DS ONLY is backwards compatible with GameBoy Advance games, not Original & Color games, so it's 6 years, not 15.

The $400 360 has no HD (Which is needed ALOT), no wireless controllers, & no HD cables. The $500 360 has a HD (though I forget the size), wireless controllers, & HD cables.

Bill_Loguidice
June 14th, 2006, 11:32 AM
The "high end" Xbox 360 with the hard drive is $400, not $500. The "low end" Xbox 360 without - not recommended - is $300, not $400.

I must say, even though I own just about every computer, game system and portable ever, I do get a very high ratio joy out of the Xbox 360, even with the so-called limited game selection. Frankly, one needs only a handful of really great games to make a system worthwhile and the much improved Live functionality is a dream...

atari2600a
June 14th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Crap, I hate it when I srew things up by 1 digit like that! :p

Bill_Loguidice
June 14th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Nathan, I think the Xbox 360, just like the upcoming PS3 and Wii, comes in different configurations depending on how much you need in terms of online play, hard disk size and other features. However, an upgrade later may cost more than if you had bought it full featured to start with. $400 for a 360 sounds quite reasonable, but I don't know the US prices.

I don't believe the Wii will come in different configurations. You're probably looking at a price of (all US prices here) $199 - $249 for a Wii with a remote and some flash memory. PS3 is going to run $499 - $599 depending upon configuration. Xbox 360 - right now (prices may lower once there's some competition) - runs $299 - $399 depending upon configuration. It's hard to compare the three directly though, as each does different things for the various price levels.



Of course, from a homebrew/hackers perspective, the GameCube still has a lot of life - remember we're on a vintage computing forum, and several of us still hack, program or otherwise make use of 10-15-20-25 year old systems. From a commercial gaming perspective, it will fade soon if it already haven't. I can't recall if Wii will be GC compatible, but even if it is, it won't make people develop more games for the GC platform.

Retail-wise, the Gamecube is fairly dead, especially in comparison to Xbox and PS2. It will see a trickle of new releases. However, that's not as big of a factor as the Wii will have strong backwards compatibility, so in any case you don't lose your software or controller investement.



On the handheld market, don't forget Nintendo DS. It is a bit cheaper than PSP, not quite as powerful but maybe more innovative and has 15 years of legacy support from the GameBoy series, an area that Nintendo has dominated despite all competition.

If you do get a DS, hold out for the DS Lite (smaller, much improved screens, etc.), despite some clear out deals on the original DS. And yes, it's only backwards compatible with GBA games, so you'd need a GBA SP if you wanted to play GBC and GB games on a "newer" handheld. Most don't need that ability, however. As for PSP versus DS, I enjoy both. The PSP fills a very real need for me by essentially being a portable console, while the DS has quirky games that take advantage of the touch screen.

atari2600a
June 14th, 2006, 11:45 AM
I just play them on my GameBoy Player on my GC! :D ...& sometimes, usually for animation development, I use an emulator, like on the Super Mario Shooter game I did in Macromedia Director on my website (...though It's an NES game & emulator)

By the way, please note that the Wii will have 128MB of built-in flash memory & a CF port & 2 USB ports (Nintendo has been messing with the idea of external HD & thumbdrive support, but nothing has been officially announced)

carlsson
June 14th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Ok. I know you can't compare prices on different markets due to VAT, wages, living standards and a lot more, but the typical prices for an Xbox 360 console in Sweden:

Xbox 360 Core (no HDD etc): $340 ($272 + VAT)
Xbox 360 Premium: $530 ($424 + VAT)

Mhm.. no wonder I thought $300 including sales taxes sound like a great deal.

Chris2005
June 14th, 2006, 04:41 PM
the Xbox came out in what, 2002? So a little more then 3 years later, it was replaced. I CANNOT believe the 360 will be around for 5.
Kids are spoiled rotten. I was in a way too, but never had an Atari or any of that stuph. Never even asked. It didn't seem economical.
I want an original Xbox by the way. Just to play around and put Linux on it. And am I the only one who thinks the current crop of games are terribly morbid? Everything is so dark and bleck. Hardly cheerful at all. That has to have an adverse affect on the psyche if you ask me.

Bill_Loguidice
June 14th, 2006, 05:15 PM
the Xbox came out in what, 2002? So a little more then 3 years later, it was replaced. I CANNOT believe the 360 will be around for 5.
Kids are spoiled rotten. I was in a way too, but never had an Atari or any of that stuph. Never even asked. It didn't seem economical.

The Xbox came out in November 2001 in the US. Technology moves on. It happens. Get over it. You don't have to upgrade, update or replace if you don't want to. It's not like on a certain date this stuff just stops working. It's why we're all on this board in the first place.



I want an original Xbox by the way. Just to play around and put Linux on it. And am I the only one who thinks the current crop of games are terribly morbid? Everything is so dark and bleck. Hardly cheerful at all. That has to have an adverse affect on the psyche if you ask me.

I never understood the need to mod consoles, myself. I was always quite content with the commerical games available for them or in other words, using them for what they were designed for.

As for the psyche business, that has been levied against every form of media. Luckily, most people are not quite so fragile. If you want "cute" stuff, it's out there, regardless of platform, no matter the ratio. Genres come and go in the mainstream, game styles ebb and flow, nothing really goes away.

atari2600a
June 14th, 2006, 05:51 PM
I play Point-&-click adventure games mostly myself. If you want some for the PC, I'd recommend Syberia & Syberia II. There's rarely any blood & gore in P&C games, & if there is, it's very unrealisitc.

Most people mod systems to pirate software. Others just to develop on the platform. The only system that I would want to mod is my Nintendo DS, to play games on the SCUMMvM emulator on it. (SCUMMvM=P&C emulator; more info at http://www.scummvm.org/)

carlsson
June 15th, 2006, 01:18 AM
I think the Xbox mostly contained tweaked PC hardware, put together in an attempt to get market shares. For what we know, Microsoft may have a R&D department that has been working ever since then to design the next generation video game, hopefully longer lasting. Historically speaking, three years is average on computers and video games. If you want to keep up with the retail, it doesn't matter how long a console is supposed to be on top, because one day you are forced to update if you want to take part of the new software offerings. Like it or not, but I suppose it is one reason why we hang here, in a place about vintage (older) stuff that is commercially dead but we don't care about it.

atari2600a
June 15th, 2006, 01:34 AM
Actually, the average lifespan for a game console is 5-6 years.

...& Microsoft DID have an R&D team working on the 360 ever since the original xBox's launch! :D

THB
June 15th, 2006, 05:05 AM
Get him a GP2X! :)

It's an open source linux, mp3, divx and gaming handheld. Devkit can be downloaded for it and it already has many great emulators ported to it. It also has TV out.

Bill_Loguidice
June 15th, 2006, 06:45 AM
Get him a GP2X! :)

It's an open source linux, mp3, divx and gaming handheld. Devkit can be downloaded for it and it already has many great emulators ported to it. It also has TV out.

With all due respect, I would never recommend a GP2X to anyone unless they were entirely self sufficient and wanted the relative hassle of setting up the various emulation environments and getting ROMs. We have to sometimes take our needs and/or desires out of the equation and look at what the individual in question would really be most happy with. For most people, that's a commercially available system with games you can buy in the store.

NathanAllan
June 15th, 2006, 12:14 PM
I have to agree with Bill. Even though to me the GP is superior, I don't think that Roberto would appreciate having to reprogram it ever time he wanted to play a different game from a sega and then again something different. I'd love it, but that's me. Roberto is a plug'n'play type person that doesn't have that much patience with technical stuff. I call that kind of thing 'falling for the hype,' but he calls it 'being with the in-crowd.' I guess I'll be getting a 360 one of these days. I guess I'll end up inheriting the gamecube for developing.

Read more, reply more later, I'm in class.

Terry Yager
June 15th, 2006, 12:22 PM
That's one of the kewl things about having kids...we get to inherit thier toyz when they outgrow 'em.

--T