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xmechanic
December 24th, 2012, 01:39 PM
Heya folks,

I have a working '84 model Xerox 820-II and although I have a basic install of CP/M (thanks to Bill D.), I have no communications capabilities other than through a host terminal transfer, which works ok for text transfers when saved to disc, but binaries end up corrupted to hell and back, so no .HEX files or otherwise. I have the complete boxed CP/M Plus software package with both manuals and all 5 original disks (5 1/4") for a Tandy TRS-80 Model 4. I would be willing to trade this for Kermit and whatever other handy utilities you can cram onto 2 or 3 - 8" floppies already compiled for the 820-II. My machine has a working 10mb. rigid disc so once I get things loaded onto it, I'm good to go. It's just getting the stuff on there in the first place. I have a ton of CP/M software in archive, including the entire Walnut Creek CP/M CD archive, but can't get to any of it without some sort of comm program. Any help would be appreciated! Package shown below.;) You can contact me in this thread, or P.M. me, if interested. Thanks!

Dave Land

11416

tingo
December 26th, 2012, 02:43 AM
Kermit 80 is here: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/archive.html
in case anyone needs it. I don't have a Xerox 820-II, so I don't think I can compile something that works.

Roland Huisman
December 26th, 2012, 03:29 AM
Something like this? I found it on bitsavers
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/Xerox/820-II/
There is a large file 820ii_images.tgz (41MB). In box 6 disk 1 is the kermit file.

11422

But I hope someone in your neighbourhood can get the image
for you on a disk. I'd try the image and it works.

Regards, Roland

xmechanic
December 27th, 2012, 04:04 PM
YES!! That's it.:D Now if I could find somebody around here (in the U.S.) that could get it compiled and on an 8" disc for the 820-II, I would gladly pay or trade out the TRS-80 software I mentioned earlier. (that's to say I would mail the whole boxed set anywhere in the US). Thanks.

Dave Land

g4ugm
December 28th, 2012, 12:34 AM
Dave,
I am pretty sure when I did this sort of think in the past there was a way to bootstrap Kermit onto a CPM machine using some sort of character encoding and a simple decoder at the other end. You might also want to try on the CCTALK list,

http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html

or ask the folks at MARCH

http://www.midatlanticretro.org/

Dave

Roland Huisman
December 28th, 2012, 01:44 AM
YES!! That's it.:D Now if I could find somebody around here (in the U.S.) that could get it compiled and on an 8" disc for the 820-II, I would gladly pay or trade out the TRS-80 software I mentioned earlier. (that's to say I would mail the whole boxed set anywhere in the US). Thanks.

Dave Land

Hello Dave,

No need to compile, just put this image on a disk and it works.

Regards, Roland

xmechanic
January 8th, 2013, 11:40 PM
Dave,
I am pretty sure when I did this sort of think in the past there was a way to bootstrap Kermit onto a CPM machine using some sort of character encoding and a simple decoder at the other end. You might also want to try on the CCTALK list,

http://www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html

or ask the folks at MARCH

http://www.midatlanticretro.org/

Dave

Thank you for the links! I got subscribed to the classiccmp mailing list. When I get a little extra time I'll see if I can get somebody within the US to work up a disk for me. :)

Tor
January 9th, 2013, 01:02 AM
Dave,
I am pretty sure when I did this sort of think in the past there was a way to bootstrap Kermit onto a CPM machine using some sort of character encoding and a simple decoder at the other end.
Around 1990 or so I "bootstrapped" my serial transfer software to remote minicomputers over a serial connection by first hand-entering a small 'uudecode' implementation. At my end I had by then my first Unix computer with a GUI where I could do cut&paste. So I first prepared the software at the local end with 'uuencode', then I fired up an editor at the remote end and used simple cut&paste of a screenfull at the time of the uuencoded local file. Afterwards is was just a matter of saving the file at the remote end, run uudecode, and I could from then on use the file transfer program.

Actually I had before that came around also written a uuencode implementation at the remote end, and I transferred files back "home" by uuencoding them to the screen and then capturing the output with the logging feature of 'xterm'.. then I just uudecoded the log file. The logging feature of xterm was removed years ago though.

-Tor

xmechanic
January 12th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Around 1990 or so I "bootstrapped" my serial transfer software to remote minicomputers over a serial connection by first hand-entering a small 'uudecode' implementation. At my end I had by then my first Unix computer with a GUI where I could do cut&paste. So I first prepared the software at the local end with 'uuencode', then I fired up an editor at the remote end and used simple cut&paste of a screenfull at the time of the uuencoded local file. Afterwards is was just a matter of saving the file at the remote end, run uudecode, and I could from then on use the file transfer program.

Actually I had before that came around also written a uuencode implementation at the remote end, and I transferred files back "home" by uuencoding them to the screen and then capturing the output with the logging feature of 'xterm'.. then I just uudecoded the log file. The logging feature of xterm was removed years ago though.

-Tor

Hmmm, interesting! I may have to give that a try when I get some time to play with this thing again. I can most likely find the uuencode/decode utility on the Walnut Creek CP/M CD somewhere. :) Thanks for the info, Tor.

xmechanic
January 13th, 2013, 05:16 PM
I think I finally got my problems resolved. I took the plunge and made a modified drive cable for my 8" floppy to connect to an old Gateway PC running Win 98 (and DOS, of course). Checked Dave Dunfield's guide on connecting old 8" drives to PC floppy controllers and found that this machine had a floppy controller chip that was listed in his 'tested machines and controllers' list. Took a little while to get the connectors and cables sorted out, but once I did, I used Dave's disk image utility, and I got a perfectly usable disk copy on the first try! Many thanks to Roland and everyone else for their assistance. I suppose I can just use the disk image utility and image whatever I want to load on the 820-II now and just copy to floppy disks. ...oh and Roland, you can bet I'll be digging through that treasure trove of stuff that you uploaded too! Thanks!:D

Dave Land

Roland Huisman
January 16th, 2013, 01:42 AM
Hello Dave,

That's wonderful! :-) Glad I could help!

There is also a game disk which has even starwars and a lot of other games.
Really fun to play and even kids like the games in the old way.

Regards, Roland

tingo
January 16th, 2013, 03:07 PM
Well done Dave!

xmechanic
January 26th, 2013, 08:47 PM
Just a quick update... I now have a working copy of Kermit 4.11 on my machine. Getting it there was the tricky part. Thanks to some really good input from the folks on the CCtalk@classiccmp.org mailing list, I modified one of my DSDD disks to work as a SSDD (had to repunch the index hole and cover the existing one with a piece of tape), so the 820 would recognize it as a SSDD disc. Then, using 22disk, I formatted it as a SSDD, wrote some files to it, and miracle of miracles, the machine actually read them and copied them to the hard drive! As for Kermit, I found the hex files for it and the Xerox 820-II overlay file, and once I got them onto the machine, I combined the 2 with MLOAD.com, and generated the KERM411.COM file. Haven't actually transferred anything with it yet, since I just got it all setup yesterday, but I'll be trying it soon. Now I can save my poor drive cable from certain destruction from removing and re-hooking it everytime I hook the PC to it to transfer files. :P Thanks to everyone the answered the thread and got me pointed the right direction. ;)

Chuck(G)
January 26th, 2013, 11:11 PM
I always found the x80 Kermits to be pretty twitchy. One very popular terminal emulator that (IIRC) included XMODEM and YMODEM protocols (and so should work with x86 programs such as Procomm) was IMP. And there does seem to be a Xerox 820 overlay for it.

http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/cdrom/CPM/IMP/

I used IMP a lot back in the day.

xmechanic
January 30th, 2013, 10:52 PM
Thanks Chuck, I'm working on the assembly part now. I'll try to get it on there in the next few days, and see if it will play nice. I'm having issues even getting Kermit to transfer stuff between machines. Text works fine at whatever speed I happen to have it set to (300 to 19200) but if I try to initiate a Kermit transfer between it and TeraTerm on Win98, it just sits there. Not sure what's up with that. I tried with and without flow control, etc., but no difference. The only way I got it to transfer anything was a direct 'send' of a small hex file from Teraterm and it filled up the screen on the 820-II, but wouldn't let me save it anywhere. Don't know if I'm just missing something, or if there's a bug in Kermit. Anyway, I'll give IMP a try as soon as I get it set up. According to the overlay file, it has the ability to set the port speed from the program and everything, so I don't have to send the baud command before I jump into CP/M. :)

tingo
January 31st, 2013, 02:05 PM
Perhaps your kermit is so old that it doesn't have autoreceive? (Happened to me with a ND machine).
If so, you need to start the receive first, use the escape character to get you back to the local machine, then start the transfer there.
(I can't remember ever using Kermit on a CP/M machine, so I might be way off here - you're warned)

xmechanic
February 7th, 2013, 11:16 AM
Well, got IMP transferred, compiled and running. Seems to work much better than Kermit. I got it to connect successfully and hand over control to the terminal, and actually scroll up the command box for LYNC from the other machine. Max seems to be about 2400 baud though. Anything faster, and the Xerox can't seem to digest the info fast enough and starts generating errors. I may have to try 1K Xmodem on both ends and see if that makes a difference. As for now, I can initiate transfers between the 2 machines, although I haven't really copied anything useful over to the Xerox yet. It does seem to play well with the old Hayes Accura 336 modem though, as far as command strings, etc. Onward and upward! ;)

Chuck(G)
February 7th, 2013, 12:13 PM
You will get better results with 1K Xmodem. YModem is another option--I think (it's been a long time). One thing that eats time on a slow machine is the computation of the block checksum. Zmodem (http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/funet/cpm/comm/zmodem/index.html) is another option, but I don't think it will give you any significant advantage on a hardwired connection--it was great for modem connections, however.

arunbaheti
March 19th, 2013, 01:21 PM
Do you have MBASIC running on the rigid drive? Do you have another XMODEM capable machine to send the file from? If so, the code below will let you bootstrap into downloading Kermit or MEX (my favorite). I still my my 820-II and 16/8.

80 REM It will work with the Xerox as well as the Kaypro
90 REM FOR THE KAYPRO
100 GOTO 280
110 X=(INP(STATUS)AND RMASK):RETURN
120 Y=INP(MODEM):RETURN
130 X=(INP(STATUS)AND SMASK):RETURN
140 OUT MODEM,Y:RETURN
150 GOSUB 130:IF X THEN 140 ELSE 150
160 GOSUB 110:IF X THEN 120 ELSE 160
170 GOSUB 110:IF X THEN GOSUB 120:PRINT CHR$(Y);:GOTO 170
180 Y$="":Y$=INKEY$:IF Y$=""THEN 170
190 IF Y$=T$ THEN Y$=DC3$ ELSE IF Y$=ESC$ THEN Y$=ETX$
200 IF Y$<>E$ THEN Y=ASC(Y$):GOSUB 140:GOTO 170
210 INPUT "ENTER FILE NAME TO RECEIVE? ",F$:OPEN "R",1,F$
220 FIELD 1,128 AS A$:Y=NAK:GOSUB 150:FOR I=1 TO 1E+06:PRINT I;CHR$(13);
230 C=0:GOSUB 160:IF Y=EOT THEN Y=ACK:GOSUB 150:CLOSE 1:PRINT CHR$(7):GOTO 170
240 GOSUB 160:J=Y:GOSUB 160:IF J+Y<>255 THEN C=13
250 FOR J=1 TO 128:GOSUB 160:MID$(B$,J,1)=CHR$(Y):C=C+Y:NEXT
260 GOSUB 160:C=(C AND 255):IF C<>Y THEN Y=NAK:GOSUB 150:GOTO 230
270 LSET A$=B$:PUT 1,I:Y=ACK:GOSUB 150:NEXT
280 MODEM=&H04:STATUS=&H06:RMASK=1:SMASK=4
290 B$=STRING$(128,0):ACK=6:NAK=21:E$=CHR$(5):WIDTH 255:EOT=4
300 ESC$=CHR$(27):ETX$=CHR$(3):DC3$=CHR$(19):T$="~":GOTO 170
--------------------

BMODEM.DOC
THIS IS A VERY BASIC MODEM PROGRAM FOR THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE
THE PATIENCE FOR DEALING WITH MBOOT3.
THE ONLY LINE THAT NEEDS ALTERING IS 280 IN WHICH YOU PUT
MODEM PORTS IN (HEX OR DEC) AND THE RECIEVE & SEND BIT MASKS.
When you run the program it will act like a very dumb terminal
Use it to log on and setup XMODEM to send you a
better modem program or USQ.
CTRL E asks you for the filename to be received.
An ESC will transmit CTRL C to the remote machine.
A tilde will transmit a CTRL S.
To dial the Hayes modem enter ATDT <phone number>

Altered for the Xerox 820,820-II, and 16/8 on 12/07/84


-Arun Baheti

arunbaheti
March 19th, 2013, 01:25 PM
You will get better results with 1K Xmodem. YModem is another option--I think (it's been a long time). One thing that eats time on a slow machine is the computation of the block checksum. Zmodem (http://www.commodore.ca/manuals/funet/cpm/comm/zmodem/index.html) is another option, but I don't think it will give you any significant advantage on a hardwired connection--it was great for modem connections, however.

MEX7 was able to handle the 1K Xmodem and batch send/receive and was very robust, if you can find it.