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bettablue
January 9th, 2013, 03:22 PM
I am the recent recipient of what looks to be an almost complete 386/486 Intel Socket 7 system. I believe it is a 386. Well, almost complete is kind of a misnomer. I had to purchase a case for the build. Luckilly for me, I found the perfect desktop computer case. But I have a couple of questions. I think these are more software related than just hardware, however, there are no mini din, or PS2 ports for connecting a keyboard and mouse. There is a larger DIN connector for the keyboard, and I know about serial mice, but that isn't the way I want to go.

I guess I need to learn how to add new hardware to this computer. I'll be adding at least one dual serial port card, a parallel/serial port card, modem, sound card, video adapter, and the above mentioned PS2 board for connecting more modern keyboard and mouse.

Since I'll be running Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.0 as a dual boot setup, is adding the hardware the same as in adding the same type of hardware to an IBM 5150/5160? Or is there another process I need to go through. The computer will have 2 internal hard disks installed.

I definitely want to have all of the hardware available for both operating systems. So any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Stone
January 9th, 2013, 03:41 PM
I am the recent recipient of what looks to be an almost complete 386/486 Intel Socket 7 system. I believe it is a 386. Well, almost complete is kind of a misnomer. I had to purchase a case for the build. Luckilly for me, I found the perfect desktop computer case. But I have a couple of questions. I think these are more software related than just hardware, however, there are no mini din, or PS2 ports for connecting a keyboard and mouse. There is a larger DIN connector for the keyboard, and I know about serial mice, but that isn't the way I want to go.

I guess I need to learn how to add new hardware to this computer. I'll be adding at least one dual serial port card, a parallel/serial port card, modem, sound card, video adapter, and the above mentioned PS2 board for connecting more modern keyboard and mouse.I've got two Socket 7 systems and they both have PS/2 keyboard and mice ports, USB ports, serial and parallel ports on the motherboard. And they also have AMD K6-2 processors. I've never seen one with either 386 or 486 processors.


Since I'll be running Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.0 as a dual boot setup, is adding the hardware the same as in adding the same type of hardware to an IBM 5150/5160? Or is there another process I need to go through. The computer will have 2 internal hard disks installed.

I definitely want to have all of the hardware available for both operating systems. So any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.FWIW, DOS 6.0 and WIN 3.1 is not a dual boot setup. WIN 3.1 requires a DOS boot in order to run. You cannot boot from WIN 3.1.

Compgeke
January 9th, 2013, 03:55 PM
This is probably either a 386 board, socket 2 or socket 3 motherboard. Socket 7 was used for Pentiums\AMD K5\AMD K6\compatible.

Agent Orange
January 9th, 2013, 04:07 PM
bettablue:

Chances are you have a Socket 3. Can you post the manufacturer and/or the model number? Socket 7 boards were mostly Pentium/AMD K5 & K6/Cyrix 6x86. The PS/2 keyboard & mouse port came in toward the end of the 486 run (not referring to actual IBM PS/2 PC's). If it is your intention to build a 486 system, you may want to opt for a mobo with the all of the on-board connectors (IDE/Floppy/Serial/parallel/etc). The reason being is less overhead. Also, if you go the 486 route, you would want a few PCI slots as it makes the video a snap. If you determine that it is, in fact, a 386, it looks like you are about ready to go hardware wise.

GottaLottaStuff
January 9th, 2013, 05:19 PM
They made a simple adapter to go from the large AT keyboard plug to the small PS/2 style keyboard plug.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN5M-MDIN6F-PS-2-to-AT-6-Inches-/390512707665?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aec5f0851

The PS/2 mouse might be a problem. If it's a 386 or early 486 with Win 3.1, a bus mouse would be a possibility.

bettablue
January 9th, 2013, 06:03 PM
The mobo processor combo I was given is an AOpen 48.84701.031. When Jimmy sent me the board, he assured me that it is a socket 7. It has a processor already installed, along with memory. The ONLY connector on this board is the 5 pin DIN connector for an AT style keyboard. I'm attaching some photos of the mobo I got from Jimmy. I hope these help. Also, there are two sticks of RAM added to the board labeled as follows:

I don't remember where I found the info on the board, because today, nothing I did to locate this board comes up empty. Bit it does appear that it will accept a max of 512Kb of RAM with each SIM of 128 Megs. In fact, the RAM that Jimmy included on the board is labeled as follows:

LG Semicon E71042
LGT (or LGI) 9296
Made in Korea

On the back side of each RAM stick, they are labeled:

RUGSEP-M01
94V-0

Based on this info, I still don't really know how much ram is installed.

Is there anything else I can get for you without pulling the processor?



There are other markings, but I think these will get you what you need to assist me in first, identifying the Mobo and what it was made for. As you can see, there are 3 ISA slots, and 4 PCI. The board also has room for two more additional sticks of RAM. If possible, I would like to completely fill the RAM as I procede with the build. I have seen both ISA and PCI PS2 expansion boards, so I'm not really worried about that. However, although I have learned an awful lot by working with my 5150, there is still a lot I don't know about working on these older systems.




bettablue:

Chances are you have a Socket 3. Can you post the manufacturer and/or the model number? Socket 7 boards were mostly Pentium/AMD K5 & K6/Cyrix 6x86. The PS/2 keyboard & mouse port came in toward the end of the 486 run (not referring to actual IBM PS/2 PC's). If it is you intention to build a 486 system, you may want to opt for a mobo with the all of the on-board connectors (IDE/Floppy/Serial/parallel/etc). The reason being is less overhead. Also, if you go the 486 route, you would want a few PCI slots and it make the video a snap. If you determine that it is, in fact, a 386, it looks like you are about ready to go hardware wise.

bettablue
January 9th, 2013, 06:04 PM
If I can use an adapter to use my other Model M with this computer, I will be very happy, Thanks stuff! I'll start looking for one. The sad thing is that I have several that go the other way around! LOL!!!

Unknown_K
January 9th, 2013, 06:26 PM
Looks like a socket 5/7 pentium board (socket type is molded in the plastic on socket but can't make it out using that picture).

mbbrutman
January 9th, 2013, 06:37 PM
I don't understand the source of the confusion here. Jimmy said he sent you a socket 7 motherboard. It says Pentium right on it. How did you think this was a 386 or 486?

Stone
January 9th, 2013, 06:38 PM
And, it's got serial and parallel ports on it.

bettablue
January 9th, 2013, 06:53 PM
Well, the heat sink/fan are pretty small. But it does at least say Intel on the top of the fan. I just ordered the adapter to connect my Model M to the larger 5 pin DIN. With the serial port cards I have, I'll probably just use a serial mouse. I guess there really isn't a lot we can tell until I start assembly. And that can't start until I get the case. I have pics of the case I purchase attached. The case has the opening for the keyboard DIN connector. But what I like the most is the front layout.

Although it may be a Pentium, I still think this will make a nice computer set up. Jimmy sent everything I need to build it, including two internal hard disk drives, a 3.5" floppy,, DVD ROM, and of course, the Mobo, processor and memory. Jimmy also included all of the cables for adding and installing everything. And of course, I have several 360Kb half height, or equivalent 5.25" floppy drives depending on how you look at it.

This computer will have all of the drives I could ever want. Plus if it is a Pentium, and I install Windows 95B, can I then add a dual USB card I have, or a card reader to fill the other 3.5" drive bay?

Is there anything else I'm not thinking about?

bettablue
January 9th, 2013, 06:57 PM
I don't know where I got that. It's probably that when I was asking about a 386 or 486 board, Jimmy offered this one to me. So, I guess I assumed that it was what I was asking for. Also, I didn't see the ports. I just found the pinouts for them. So I'll be adding them too as I go on.

thanks to the both of you for clearing my own confusion.




And, it's got serial and parallel ports on it.

RJBJR
January 9th, 2013, 07:13 PM
Aopen AP53 Motherboard

Heres a little info about jumpers/etc. http://oldman.ixbt.com/mb/Aopen%20ap53/

Caluser2000
January 9th, 2013, 07:22 PM
You can also get serial to ps/2 adapters but the mice have to support both serial and ps/2 configurations internally. All the onboard ports will have pin one screen printed on the mobo so connecting them up should'nt be too hard. Good luck.

RJBJR
January 9th, 2013, 07:28 PM
You can also get serial to ps/2 adapters but the mice have to support both serial and ps/2 configurations internally. All the onboard port will have pin one screen printed on the mobo so connecting them up should'nt be too hard. Good luck.

Actually, this board supports a PS2 mouse port if he can find the bracket/plug-in cable - though it would be a stroke of luck to find one. It also supports USB.

Caluser2000
January 9th, 2013, 07:33 PM
Actually, this board supports a PS2 mouse port if he can find the bracket/plug-in cable - though it would be a stroke of luck to find one.I see that looking at mobo pic. I've got a few systems with them on as well. Looks like they're around $5 plus postage:
http://www.computercablestore.com/PC_Insert_PS2_Port_2x4_pi_PID1018.aspx

Agent Orange
January 9th, 2013, 07:48 PM
bettablue:

That's a nice board. I think you'd really get a big kick out of WIN95 on that machine as opposed to WIN31. You can always independently dual boot your box with System Commander or something similar. WIN95 will support most (all) of your DOS stuff. See if you can get a little more info on you CPU and how much RAM you have installed. What about a monitor? Do you plan on a CRT or flat screen?

Jimmy
January 9th, 2013, 09:48 PM
It would really help is Jimmy could remember something about the board, but lately he had trouble remembering his name.

Stone
January 10th, 2013, 03:48 AM
This computer will have all of the drives I could ever want. Plus if it is a Pentium, and I install Windows 95B, can I then add a dual USB card I have, or a card reader to fill the other 3.5" drive bay?I've still got a coupla copies of WIN 95B (OSR2) in case you're interested. One has been opened and one is still shrinkwrapped.

Jimmy
January 10th, 2013, 06:16 AM
Thomas:

There is a Original license key Certificate of Authenticity included in the bundle I sent you for Win 95 B. I think there may be a couple other socket 7 boards in the Junk Room, I can look and send one of those to you, if you don't think the one you have will work.

I just don't remember which machines we pulled them from years ago.

Just let me know.

Jimmy

bettablue
January 10th, 2013, 09:10 AM
As far as I can tell Jimmy, this one will be fine. I just need to find the parallel and serial ports to connect to the headers. That shouldn't be too hard. However, if there is a problem, I'll let you know and we'll go from there.

As always, thanks much.

bettablue
January 10th, 2013, 09:25 AM
I have a single TV/monitor in my computer hobby room. It has a 32 inch Hi-Def LCD screen. Right now, I have my current tweener, a TRS-80 Coco, Commodore 64, and occasionally, my Compaq portable. They all work fine with the setup, although I dare anyone to go behind the table to untangle the mess of cables and wires I have to support all of the connections.

Indeed, it sounds like I will have fun with this build. Like I said in my reply to Jimmy; I'll have to locate the parallel and serial ports that connect to the boards headers. But, even if those can't be found, there are alternatives. And since the board will also accept USB, well that's even better, because I just happen to have a great 3.5" internal universal card reader, or I can add a dual USB port that fills the same space.

Any idea where to find the ports to connect to the boards headers?


bettablue:

That's a nice board. I think you'd really get a big kick out of WIN95 on that machine as opposed to WIN31. You can always independently dual boot your box with System Commander or something similar. WIN95 will support most (all) of your DOS stuff. See if you can get a little more info on you CPU and how much RAM you have installed. What about a monitor? Do you plan on a CRT or flat screen?

Stone
January 10th, 2013, 09:51 AM
Any idea where to find the ports to connect to the boards headers?I've got serial (9 pin & 25 pin), parallel, game and various combinations of all of these. I've got them with and without slot brackets. It's too bad you're 2500 miles from me. :-)

Stone
January 10th, 2013, 10:36 AM
Here's a large selection on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?clk_rvr_id=419141129867&_nkw=Parallel%20Port%20Cable&_sop=15

Jimmy
January 10th, 2013, 12:15 PM
Thomas:

This should be the specs on the board. I need to rummage around in the junk room and see what else I can find that may work with the board.

Model AP53
CPU: Socket 7
FSB 66MHz
Support Intel SKT 7 Pentium, AMD K5/K6, Cyrix M2
Chipset: Intel 430HX
Main Memory : 72-pin SIMM
Support ECC
4/8/16/32/64/128MB
FPM/EDO DRAM
Max Memory : 512MB
L2 cache: L2 cache : 512K
IDE: Integrated PIO mode 4 Controller
Max Disk : 8.4GB [24 bits BIOS INT13 Spec.]
Slot: PCI
ISA
Storage & Back Panel I/O: IDE Channel : PIO mode 4
Floppy Drive Connector : Floppy Drive Connector x 1
Printer Port : Printer Port x 1
COM Port : COM Port x 1
On Board Connector: CPU FAN
Front Panel Connector : Front Panel
BIOS: AMI PnP Flash ROM BIOS
Form Factor: Baby AT
Board Size: 220 mm x 330 mm
Accessory: Floppy Disk cable
40-wire IDE cable

bettablue
January 10th, 2013, 02:09 PM
Here's a large selection on eBay:

Thanks stone... I followed your link and already found several items I like. However, like I've said many times before... I really do know absolutely nothing about these boards, or really anything until I began actually troubleshooting, and then I've never had to piece together a setup like this. I'm including links to each of the items I intend to purchase, so hopefully you'll all be able to tell if I'm getting the right things. As with all things, it's good to learn. And I'm actually learning something.

Yes, this is really already turning into a fun build. By looking at the items I chose to link to below, I think you should be able to see what I'm doing.

Parallel Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parallel-LPT-Printer-COM-Serial-Port-Cord-Bracket-Cable-/221156661674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337df6d9aa

Dual Serial Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-in-1-2-port-DB9-RS232-9pin-Com-Port-Serial-Cable-Cord-host-case-rear-Bracket-/310560855523?pt=US_Parallel_Serial_PS_2_Cables_Ada pters&hash=item484ede95e3

USB PS2 on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-2-0-PS2-Mouse-IR-Port-Female-Jack-Bracket-Motherboard-2x9-18pin-/290783988950?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item43b4138cd6
However, I think I already have a 4 port USB bracket with the mobo connectors. Still, I think this will be a simple way for adding USB, AND dual PS2 ports for the keyboard and mouse.

Lastly: If the mobo accepts 3 floppy drives, or possibly an internal USB connection, I would also like to get a 3.5" multi-card reader to occupy the 2nd 3.5" expansion bay.


OK, there you have it; my shopping list. Did I miss anything?

bettablue
January 10th, 2013, 02:42 PM
I just read the specs that Jimmy posted. This will be a problem. Since the board only has support for one floppy, I won't be able to use it for what I really need it for. Everything else looks great, and the items I selected should all make this a fantastic computer otherwise, but I really do need dual floppy support. #.5" 1.44 Meg, and 5.25" floppy drives cant work together without it.

So, Jimmy, if you have another board that does support dual floppy drives, let me know and I'll send this board back to you. Since I bought the case, and can't return it, I'll need an AT style mobo. Unless there is an option that I'm not aware of.


Thanks stone... I followed your link and already found several items I like. However, like I've said many times before... I really do know absolutely nothing about these boards, or really anything until I began actually troubleshooting, and then I've never had to piece together a setup like this. I'm including links to each of the items I intend to purchase, so hopefully you'll all be able to tell if I'm getting the right things. As with all things, it's good to learn. And I'm actually learning something.

Yes, this is really already turning into a fun build. By looking at the items I chose to link to below, I think you should be able to see what I'm doing.

Parallel Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parallel-LPT-Printer-COM-Serial-Port-Cord-Bracket-Cable-/221156661674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337df6d9aa

Dual Serial Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-in-1-2-port-DB9-RS232-9pin-Com-Port-Serial-Cable-Cord-host-case-rear-Bracket-/310560855523?pt=US_Parallel_Serial_PS_2_Cables_Ada pters&hash=item484ede95e3

USB PS2 on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-2-0-PS2-Mouse-IR-Port-Female-Jack-Bracket-Motherboard-2x9-18pin-/290783988950?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item43b4138cd6
However, I think I already have a 4 port USB bracket with the mobo connectors. Still, I think this will be a simple way for adding USB, AND dual PS2 ports for the keyboard and mouse.

Lastly: If the mobo accepts 3 floppy drives, or possibly an internal USB connection, I would also like to get a 3.5" multi-card reader to occupy the 2nd 3.5" expansion bay.


OK, there you have it; my shopping list. Did I miss anything?

Caluser2000
January 10th, 2013, 02:55 PM
You'll be able to use both types of floppy disk drives on the same ribbon cable connectred to the single on board floppy header on the mobo.

Stone
January 10th, 2013, 03:06 PM
Thanks stone... I followed your link and already found several items I like. However, like I've said many times before... I really do know absolutely nothing about these boards, or really anything until I began actually troubleshooting, and then I've never had to piece together a setup like this. I'm including links to each of the items I intend to purchase, so hopefully you'll all be able to tell if I'm getting the right things. As with all things, it's good to learn. And I'm actually learning something.

Yes, this is really already turning into a fun build. By looking at the items I chose to link to below, I think you should be able to see what I'm doing.

Parallel Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parallel-LPT-Printer-COM-Serial-Port-Cord-Bracket-Cable-/221156661674?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337df6d9aa

Dual Serial Port on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-in-1-2-port-DB9-RS232-9pin-Com-Port-Serial-Cable-Cord-host-case-rear-Bracket-/310560855523?pt=US_Parallel_Serial_PS_2_Cables_Ada pters&hash=item484ede95e3

USB PS2 on bracket
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-2-0-PS2-Mouse-IR-Port-Female-Jack-Bracket-Motherboard-2x9-18pin-/290783988950?pt=US_USB_Cables_Hubs_Adapters&hash=item43b4138cd6
However, I think I already have a 4 port USB bracket with the mobo connectors. Still, I think this will be a simple way for adding USB, AND dual PS2 ports for the keyboard and mouse.

Lastly: If the mobo accepts 3 floppy drives, or possibly an internal USB connection, I would also like to get a 3.5" multi-card reader to occupy the 2nd 3.5" expansion bay.


OK, there you have it; my shopping list. Did I miss anything?The parallel bracket has a serial port on it as well. IIRC, Jimmy said the board only had one serial port on it so do you really need three ports?

Regarding the PS/2 & USB bracket... You said you had a USB card. Doesn't that have the ports on it?



I just read the specs that Jimmy posted. This will be a problem. Since the board only has support for one floppy, I won't be able to use it for what I really need it for. Everything else looks great, and the items I selected should all make this a fantastic computer otherwise, but I really do need dual floppy support. #.5" 1.44 Meg, and 5.25" floppy drives cant work together without it. It has dual floppy support -- every floppy controller supports two floppy drives.

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2013, 03:32 PM
It has dual floppy support -- every floppy controller supports two floppy drives.

In theory, yes, but some P1, P2, P3, P4 and AMD boards support only a single floppy. The issue arises from the "Super I/O" chip not having enough pins to support an entire range of I/O devices and still have pins left over for an extra drive select and motor control. A few laptop systems will allow you to reconfigure the Super I/O to support a second floppy in lieu of a parallel port, for example.

I have a couple of such motherboards. Apparently, a second floppy drive was considered outdated even then.

RJBJR
January 10th, 2013, 03:45 PM
In theory, yes, but some P1, P2, P3, P4 and AMD boards support only a single floppy. The issue arises from the "Super I/O" chip not having enough pins to support an entire range of I/O devices and still have pins left over for an extra drive select and motor control. A few laptop systems will allow you to reconfigure the Super I/O to support a second floppy in lieu of a parallel port, for example.

I have a couple of such motherboards. Apparently, a second floppy drive was considered outdated even then.

The Aopen AP53 supports two floppy drives. Here is a link to the BIOS doc. http://oldman.ixbt.com/mb/Aopen%20ap53/AP53-AMI.PDF

All docs for the board here (http://oldman.ixbt.com/mb/Aopen%20ap53/)

It seems the confusion stems from Jimmy's description which mentions one floppy connection. "Floppy Drive Connector x 1"

Cager
January 10th, 2013, 03:54 PM
As per the consensus, it's definitely a Pentium board & I reckon will take up to a Pentium MMX - although an AOpen board, it is very similar to a board that I have.
My board will take up to a 233MHz CPU, using a 66MHz Bus clock and a 3.5 multiplier.
For keyboard, you can use adaptors to go from AT to PS/2 & to USB if you want to. For a mouse you can put in a serial port connected to the onboard connector(s) or you might find that the board has a PS/2 mouse connector that you can take out to a PS/2 mouse connector (my board has one of these).
There are also USB connectors on board, so you could use USB keyboard & mouse directly if you prefer.

bettablue
January 10th, 2013, 04:07 PM
OK Great! Really! So what do I need to purchase to make the double connection? Is there a connector, or cable that I need to get for the dual floppy?

USB support... It looks like I have a pretty good list of parts going. What I would like to do is use the extra 3.5" bay for a multi-card reader connected to an internal USB. Can I use one of the newer USB 2.0, or even 3.0 expansion cards with an internal connection to run the card reader.

As you can see by the list of items in one of my previous replies in this thread, this computer will be used quite extensively for input and output to various drives, and connection types. I hope it will handle them all.

I do believe Windows 95B is going to be a great OS for this system too. I just hope everything works after it's all assembled. Do I need a professional to come down to help me build this beast?

Thanks again RJBJR and everybody.



The Aopen AP53 supports two floppy drives. Here is a link to the BIOS doc. http://oldman.ixbt.com/mb/Aopen%20ap53/AP53-AMI.PDF

All docs for the board here (http://oldman.ixbt.com/mb/Aopen%20ap53/)

It seems the confusion stems from Jimmy's description which mentions one floppy connection. "Floppy Drive Connector x 1"

Chuck(G)
January 10th, 2013, 04:08 PM
Early USB motherboards can be a little dodgy in their support; some work and others installed the controller "just in case" and never really fully tested it. So again, be careful.

All in all, my vote for a board of this era would a SS7--can run a P1 if desired, but can also run AMD K6 and generally support more memory as was have better PCI and USB support.

But that's just my opinion.

Cager
January 10th, 2013, 04:24 PM
Standard floppy cables usually provide connectors for dual floppy drives - the ability to use dual floppies is pretty common. If you want you could use a 5.25" & a 3.5" as long as you get the appropriate cable.
Regarding USB, the BIOS will probably only support USB 1, so anything connected to onboard USB connectors would be limited by that.

Get a professional to help you !?! - building it yourself is half the fun, provides education, a knowledge of what you have got & a great sense of achievement.

RJBJR
January 10th, 2013, 04:25 PM
OK Great! Really! So what do I need to purchase to make the double connection? Is there a connector, or cable that I need to get for the dual floppy?



Just a regular floppy cable with two connectors - for the A: & B: drives. The one cable will support two drives just like on the IBM 5150.

Usually a 3.5" drive has a pin connection and a 5.25" drive has a card edge connection.

mbbrutman
January 10th, 2013, 04:57 PM
Thomas,

I would suggest searching for an out-of-date version of "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" by Scott Mueller. Even the older versions (10th/12th) cover most of these topics. Some background reading would do you well and cut down on a lot of repetitive questions.

Stone
January 10th, 2013, 07:10 PM
Here's the 12th...

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/vintage_computer_books9934/Upgrading%20and%20Repairing%20PCs/URP_12th_edition.pdf (http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/vintage_computer_books9934/Upgrading%20and%20Repairing%20PCs/URP_12th_edition.pdf)

Caluser2000
January 10th, 2013, 07:14 PM
Id've thought the thread would've been moved to the pentium area by now.

bettablue
January 11th, 2013, 08:12 AM
I have already started reading one of the copies on modem7s site. So I'm in complete agreement with you. I have already picked up a few things. I'm sure that after I read this one, which is 8th edition, I'll have a better understanding of what I'm doing. The next one I'll be reading is the 12th edition. I intend to use that one as more of a reference as I go through the build.


Thomas,

I would suggest searching for an out-of-date version of "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" by Scott Mueller. Even the older versions (10th/12th) cover most of these topics. Some background reading would do you well and cut down on a lot of repetitive questions.

Agent Orange
January 11th, 2013, 10:46 AM
In theory, yes, but some P1, P2, P3, P4 and AMD boards support only a single floppy. The issue arises from the "Super I/O" chip not having enough pins to support an entire range of I/O devices and still have pins left over for an extra drive select and motor control. A few laptop systems will allow you to reconfigure the Super I/O to support a second floppy in lieu of a parallel port, for example.

I have a couple of such motherboards. Apparently, a second floppy drive was considered outdated even then.

This is true, especially with the AMI BIOS married to Intel 430 chipsets. I have several of those boards that will only configure to 1 floppy. However, if your board has PCI, you can buy a cheap USB card and use an external 3.5 USB floppy and default your on-board floppy to 360/1.2. Works for me

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2013, 11:35 AM
This is true, especially with the AMI BIOS married to Intel 430 chipsets. I have several of those boards that will only configure to 1 floppy. However, if your board has PCI, you can buy a cheap USB card and use an external 3.5 USB floppy and default your on-board floppy to 360/1.2. Works for me

Getting DOS drivers for a 3.5" USB drive, while possible, does suck up the memory however. :)

Agent Orange
January 11th, 2013, 11:55 AM
Getting DOS drivers for a 3.5" USB drive, while possible, does suck up the memory however. :)

In my recent experience, some of the PCI USB boards don't require drivers, everything thing seems to be included in the on-board BIOS - not unlike some of the older/better ISA HD controllers. It won't work in all instances, but I've had fairly good luck so far. It always a crap shoot when you try to blend the old with the new.

Chuck(G)
January 11th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Uh, yeah--USB in the early 430 days was pretty um, interesting? I've got a whole carton of peripherals with USB plugs on them that no modern gear will even recognized as being plugged in, much less have drivers for. Even better, the motherboards thate these belong to don't work with many of the USB 1.0 peripherals that I still have.

A huge problem is that many devices only have drivers for Win95B-WinME (if you're lucky, NT 4). So, unless you have the right OS, you're out of luck.

bettablue
January 12th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Which for me on this build, won't be an issue since I'll be installing Windows 95B. I was actually thinking of adding a PCI usb card so that I could get an internal multi-card reader that plugs into an internally mounted USB connection. The card reader will actually be installed in the extra 3.5" bay.

I have also contacted Jimmy directly to see if he has the ports and such to plug into the mother boards headers. What he doesn't have, I'll buy through E-Bay. In particular, I'll be adding a serial port, Parallel port, USB and PS2. Plus I'll be installing the aforementioned PCI USB. So that should allow for at least a bit more USB functionality. The cost for the remaining bits and pieces is fairly minimal, and I can get most, if not all of them if I need to for under $25.00.

Do you suppose the PCI USB will present any real issues with 95B

I also know that USB functionality is all but non-existent for DOS. The same goes for the card reader. Is that correct?




Uh, yeah--USB in the early 430 days was pretty um, interesting? I've got a whole carton of peripherals with USB plugs on them that no modern gear will even recognized as being plugged in, much less have drivers for. Even better, the motherboards thate these belong to don't work with many of the USB 1.0 peripherals that I still have.

A huge problem is that many devices only have drivers for Win95B-WinME (if you're lucky, NT 4). So, unless you have the right OS, you're out of luck.

Chuck(G)
January 12th, 2013, 06:27 PM
Well, the PCI USB card depends on the availability of drivers for the card. There is a difference between USB drivers for Win95B and Win98, so don't assume that one will work with the other.

The furnny thing is that DOS drivers for the mass storage class do exist. See here, for example (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046069/yes-usb-drivers-dos). The files may be hard to find now, but they're still wandering around. Of course, it's all going to be USB 1.0, but that's better than nothing.

Caluser2000
January 12th, 2013, 09:35 PM
I'd imagine there'd probably be better luck with Windows 98 which can be thinned down with the likes of Win98 lite, IE off etc. For example the WiFi wireless card I've got that is only a few years old has Win98 drivers but nothing for Win9B/C. Thomas have you done driver search to see if the card reader is supported by Win95B at all? I know my Transcend 6-in-1 reader doesn't.

As Chuck alludes to the driver model changed between Win95 and Win98.

The dos usb driver is listed at along with a custom boot disk http://hddguru.com/software/

bettablue
January 13th, 2013, 08:53 AM
I'd imagine there'd probably be better luck with Windows 98 which can be thinned down with the likes of Win98 lite, IE off etc. For example the WiFi wireless card I've got that is only a few years old has Win98 drivers but nothing for Win9B/C. Thomas have you done driver search to see if the card reader is supported by Win95B at all? I know my Transcend 6-in-1 reader doesn't.

As Chuck alludes to the driver model changed between Win95 and Win98.

The dos usb driver is listed at along with a custom boot disk http://hddguru.com/software/

Sweet... I'll copy the USB drivers for DOS, and have them ready... As far as the card reader is concerned, yes it does support Windows 95, or I should say the card is supported by Win 95. Either way, there won't be a problem. There is a driver disk that comes with the reader that includes drivers for Windows 95 through Win 2000. The driver disk doesn't appear to have any drivers for Windows 7 and 8.

On a side note: I have been reading the manual for my mobo that RJBJR pointed me to. That was the biggest help, but at the same time, I'm almost done with Upgrading and repairing PCs, 8th edition. I picked up a lot more than I thought. So right now, I'm just waiting for the reply from Jimmy regarding the connectors that are wired to the mobo headers. Honestly, I can't wait to get started, but I can't do anything at all until the case arrives. That won't be till towards the end of the week.

Agent Orange
January 13th, 2013, 12:42 PM
Sweet... I'll copy the USB drivers for DOS, and have them ready... As far as the card reader is concerned, yes it does support Windows 95, or I should say the card is supported by Win 95. Either way, there won't be a problem. There is a driver disk that comes with the reader that includes drivers for Windows 95 through Win 2000. The driver disk doesn't appear to have any drivers for Windows 7 and 8.

On a side note: I have been reading the manual for my mobo that RJBJR pointed me to. That was the biggest help, but at the same time, I'm almost done with Upgrading and repairing PCs, 8th edition. I picked up a lot more than I thought. So right now, I'm just waiting for the reply from Jimmy regarding the connectors that are wired to the mobo headers. Honestly, I can't wait to get started, but I can't do anything at all until the case arrives. That won't be till towards the end of the week.

There's a few more ways to go for USB. Check out this adapter from Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002 . Also, TrendNet made a USB 2.0 adapter card that I used once upon a time in my old IBM A22's PCMCIA slot. So, that might be a long shot to adapt for PCMCIA support, but it could be done.

Chuck(G)
January 13th, 2013, 02:22 PM
If you don't have a middleman issue, you can buy the same adapter for under $5 shipped on eBay. For most modern stuff, it's okay, but the ATAPI support for older gear is a bit spotty in my experience.

mbbrutman
January 13th, 2013, 02:28 PM
There's a few more ways to go for USB. Check out this adapter from Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002 . Also, TrendNet made a USB 2.0 adapter card that I used once upon a time in my old IBM A22's PCMCIA slot. So, that might be a long shot to adapt for PCMCIA support, but it could be done.

Just to be clear, you are aware that the Vantec product that you linked to is for attaching IDE and SATA drives to a USB port, and not for adding USB to a system. There is a big difference between the two.

(I have the Vantec adapter - it's great for hard drive type devices. But it clearly does not add USB to a machine.)

Agent Orange
January 13th, 2013, 08:00 PM
Just to be clear, you are aware that the Vantec product that you linked to is for attaching IDE and SATA drives to a USB port, and not for adding USB to a system. There is a big difference between the two.

(I have the Vantec adapter - it's great for hard drive type devices. But it clearly does not add USB to a machine.)

You are correct, I missed on that one. This will work tried and true - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166014

Chuck(G)
January 13th, 2013, 09:03 PM
You are correct, I missed on that one. This will work tried and true - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166014

Eh, maybe. It really depends on the mobo--note that the specs say PCI 2.2. I don't know if that means that it will work on systems that limit support to earlier PCI versions.

Agent Orange
January 14th, 2013, 01:33 PM
I've have two 486's with PCI running the cheapo Roswell adapter with no problems - both are WIN98. When I get some time, I'll throw in a WIN95 HD and see what happens. I think WIN95 (B&C) can be made to support USB 1.1. With respect to USB 2.0, its all about the OS. WIN98 runs pretty good on most high end 486's (100/133). So, if you're determined to implement USB 2.0 w/WIN98 on a lesser build, be prepared to take a performance hit.

bettablue
January 17th, 2013, 06:58 AM
I was looking at this one... It's also cheaper by a couple of bucks and offers free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High-Speed-USB-2-0-PCI-Card-Expansion-Kit-4-External-1-Internal-for-PC-/170902725881?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item27ca98a4f9



You are correct, I missed on that one. This will work tried and true - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166014

Agent Orange
January 17th, 2013, 07:23 AM
I was looking at this one... It's also cheaper by a couple of bucks and offers free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High-Speed-USB-2-0-PCI-Card-Expansion-Kit-4-External-1-Internal-for-PC-/170902725881?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item27ca98a4f9

Can't go wrong on the price, probably cover it with change from the sofa - free shipping and all.

bettablue
January 17th, 2013, 07:43 AM
The case arrived yesterday. I'm still awaiting the delivery of the video card from Jimmy, but I do believe I'm ready to outfit the mobo. Here's what I plan.

PCI USB http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High...item27ca98a4f9 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High-Speed-USB-2-0-PCI-Card-Expansion-Kit-4-External-1-Internal-for-PC-/170902725881?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item27ca98a4f9) or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815166014 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166014)

3pc I/O KIT 2 MALE DB9 1 PARALLEL DB25 to MOTHERBOARD CONNECTOR HEADER CABLE NEW

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-I-O-KIT-2-MALE-DB9-1-PARALLEL-DB25-to-MOTHERBOARD-CONNECTOR-HEADER-CABLE-NEW-/261125501878?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item3ccc4af3b6

That covers the parallel and serial ports, and a PCI USB card. :p I still want/need to locate a dual PS2 card for the keyboard and mouse, and USB1 with "L" bracket to connect to the Mobo headers though. Ive searched through E-Bay, Amazon, New Egg, Tiger Direct and a few other sites to no avail. Sure I ran across a bunch of the PS2 cards being sold in lots on E-Bay. There are plenty with USB 2.0 combined too. But the Mobo won't accept USB 2.0, so that by itself will be useless. Plus plain dual PS2 cards seem to be a lot more expensive than they should be. I considered buying a small lot and reselling the remainders... But I don't know if that would be feasible. I certainly don't want to end up stuck with something I can't use, or can't sell.

Since I need a few items yet before I can really begin assembly, I have a few questions before I start ordering everything I have in the list above:

1. Does anyone in reading this thread have the remaining pieces I need to outfit the mobo? PS2 card, USB1 with bracket for the mobo headers?
or---
2. is there another link to where I can buy these pieces at comparable prices?
and finally---
3. Am I missing anything? (Before anyone asks; the case did come with a 380 watt AT power supply:cool:)

I will be ordering the other items in my shopping list either later tonight, or tomorrow, so if anyone here has any better suggestions for what I've included, by all means, please reply. If all goes well, these bits and pieces will be here by the end of next week. That's when I want to start the build. Of course, if I don't have all of the pieces, I can and will hold off until I have everything I need.

One more thing. The multi-card reader I WAS looking at won't work the way I want... It requires it's own connection to the mobo floppy headers. That won't work because I'll be using dual floppy disks already. Can someone suggest an internal USB powered multi-card reader? One of those would be perfect since the PCI-USB card I'm going to purchase has an internal USB port to power the card reader. If possible, I would like to get it in beige to match the rest of the computer, but I'll accept anything if I can get one to fill the extra 3.5" floppy bay. I've seen some in the not too distant past that also take power from the main power supply. I don't remember if it connected to the system via USB though, but I like the idea of the power supply connection for those times when USB needs the extra oomph.

I'll be awaiting your responses. Thanks again.

Caluser2000
January 17th, 2013, 09:26 AM
Personally I don't see the point of a dual PS/2 card when you can use a din-mini din adapter for the keyboard.

bettablue
January 17th, 2013, 09:35 AM
That's just me being anal I guess... I can eliminate that any way. I just found out that my wife also bought me a REAL Microsoft Green Eyed Mouse for my 5150, so I'll have a serial mouse for the build!

But what about the rest? Am I barking up the right tree so to speak?


Personally I don't see the point of a dual PS/2 card when you can use a din-mini din adapter for the keyboard.

RJBJR
January 17th, 2013, 10:47 AM
PCI USB http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High...item27ca98a4f9 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Ports-High-Speed-USB-2-0-PCI-Card-Expansion-Kit-4-External-1-Internal-for-PC-/170902725881?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item27ca98a4f9) or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815166014 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166014)


If you are going to install Win98 that Rosewill RC-103 card will work (the 2nd URL from NewEgg), but no Win95 support.
Can't find info about the ebay card so make sure it supports what you are using for an operating system. Don't just assume it works in Win95.

bettablue
January 17th, 2013, 12:36 PM
If you are going to install Win98 that Rosewill RC-103 card will work (the 2nd URL from NewEgg), but no Win95 support.
Can't find info about the ebay card so make sure it supports what you are using for an operating system. Don't just assume it works in Win95.

As always, thanks.... I had already changed my mind about which OS to install too. I'll be installing Win 98 SE as the primary OS, but I'll be dual booting it with DOS 3.1 on a 2nd hard drive to test the operation of some of my programs. Either way though, since nobody is saying anything, I guess the other items are all good to go, so I'll place the order for them later tonight. I'll be ordering the USB 2.0 hub from the 1st link. I was assured that it will work with Win-98.

The only thing I need now is a link to an internally USB powered multi-card reader to complete the computer. Any ideas?

Stone
January 17th, 2013, 01:12 PM
Since you're gonna have USB why not consider one of those little multi-card readers on a wire? I've got several of them and I think they're just great. Plus, you can plug them into any modern computer you might have whenever you have the need/desire.

bettablue
January 18th, 2013, 06:18 AM
I did consider one of those, and I have several here to choose from. But... I'm being picky. I know I have seen one of those card readers with an internal USB 2.0 connection. And it had the driver CD to covered everything from Win95 to Win2000 and XP. It would NOT work with anything higher though. It was black and had a beige faceplate that the user could switch. No matter though. I'll be installing all black drives in the beige case any way. I even have a few blanking plates in black to swap out the extra 3.5" and 5/25" bays.

I know it's not going to be completely retro, but as long as I'm consistant, it will look great! The internal card reader is just one of those things I like to have. So, I'm definitely going to keep looking.

Thanks though.




Since you're gonna have USB why not consider one of those little multi-card readers on a wire? I've got several of them and I think they're just great. Plus, you can plug them into any modern computer you might have whenever you have the need/desire.

bettablue
January 18th, 2013, 07:36 AM
For those of you who might be interested...

Check this out! An internal PCI multi-card reader...
New Litronic Argus 2500 PC Card Reader Writer Black PCI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Litronic-Argus-2500-PC-Card-Reader-Writer-Black-PCI-/280932334321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4168df3af1
I just spent my last money on the other parts to finish outfitting the mother board... Oh, well, there are enough of them so when my E-Bay sales money clears in a couple days, I'll order one.

Woo hoo!

RWallmow
January 18th, 2013, 07:54 AM
Not to throw a wrench into your works, but I have used several of these 3.5" Floppy & card reader combo units (http://www.ebay.com/itm/works-with-old-system-Floppy-Drive-Memory-Card-Reader-combo-internal-mount-/181064538343?pt=US_Memory_Card_Readers_Adapters&hash=item2a284998e7), they are pretty slick, kills two birds with one stone, memory card reader and floppy drive in one bay. NOTE: The floppy is still run from the FDC (Floppy Disk Controller) on the board, only card reader and front USB port are USB powered, also note these use a USB header type connector, so it would have to go on mobo USB header, or a USB PCI card that has header connector (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815201008&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Add-On+Cards-_-N82E16815201008&gclid=CPj24dyu8rQCFQpgMgodjWIAsw), or you could buy or make some type of header to USB-A adapter (http://www.dalco.com/p-722-usb-20-header-to-4-pin-plug-adapter-cable.aspx?gclid=CKSbmJKv8rQCFYw-MgodbgcAmw). I didn't get mine from that seller, got mine clearance at a local store, but they are the exact same device.

EDIT: I should also note these "officially" need Win98 or newer for the Card Reader portion, but since that's your plan anyways, shouldn't be a problem. "Unofficially" these register as generic storage devices so there is a possibility it could work in Win95/NT4/DOS with some of the available 3rd party "USB Mass storage" drivers.

RWallmow
January 18th, 2013, 08:16 AM
For those of you who might be interested...

Check this out! An internal PCI multi-card reader...
New Litronic Argus 2500 PC Card Reader Writer Black PCI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Litronic-Argus-2500-PC-Card-Reader-Writer-Black-PCI-/280932334321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4168df3af1
I just spent my last money on the other parts to finish outfitting the mother board... Oh, well, there are enough of them so when my E-Bay sales money clears in a couple days, I'll order one.

Woo hoo!

Looks like a cool device, but you are probably locked into proprietary drivers with something like that, there's a chance with "generic USB devices" to get them working under unsupported OS's with 3rd party USB drivers, like many that are available for DOS (http://www.freedos.org/technotes/technote/203.html)and NT4. (http://nt4ref.zcm.com.au/usb.htm) This thing you would probably be locked into what that manufacturer supports (win95 is oldest listed, its unlikely it would ever work in DOS).

bettablue
January 18th, 2013, 08:53 AM
Based on what I've seen here, I'll hold off on one of those. I have the item I want, so when my money clears in a few days, I'll be able to purchase it and be in good shape. Besides, with the card reader I found, it will finish the build off nicely. I'm still worried that I somehow don't have the right parts. I'll find out soon enough.

Chuck(G)
January 18th, 2013, 09:17 AM
Not to throw a wrench into your works, but I have used several of these 3.5" Floppy & card reader combo units (http://www.ebay.com/itm/works-with-old-system-Floppy-Drive-Memory-Card-Reader-combo-internal-mount-/181064538343?pt=US_Memory_Card_Readers_Adapters&hash=item2a284998e7), they are pretty slick, kills two birds with one stone, memory card reader and floppy drive in one bay.

They're still quite useful (I believe that Geeks has them for $10.) I got one and replaced the floppy drive with a USB one (Teac FD05U) and put it in a modern system without a legacy floppy drive controller. So I've got floppy support as well as a card reader. The thing takes up 2 USB ports--one for the card reader and one for the USB socket.

Stone
January 21st, 2013, 08:47 AM
Here's one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compaq-Presario-15-in-1-media-card-reader-5070-2565-4-pin-connector-TESTED-/271139511806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f212c9dfe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5070-2565-HP-Compaq-15-In-1-Media-Card-Reader-working-/130838223715?pt=US_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item1e7690db63

RWallmow
January 21st, 2013, 09:03 AM
Here's one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compaq-Presario-15-in-1-media-card-reader-5070-2565-4-pin-connector-TESTED-/271139511806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f212c9dfe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5070-2565-HP-Compaq-15-In-1-Media-Card-Reader-working-/130838223715?pt=US_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item1e7690db63

Those are both proprietary HP/Compaq bezel ones, doesn't have brackets to mount in a standard PC case.

bettablue
January 21st, 2013, 08:32 PM
Now that looks like a great option for my setup. Do you happen to know if they come with a beige bezel? I just checked all of my parts, and all of the items Jimmy had sent, and everything else is beige, including the case. It would be nice to keep the color consistent.


They're still quite useful (I believe that Geeks has them for $10.) I got one and replaced the floppy drive with a USB one (Teac FD05U) and put it in a modern system without a legacy floppy drive controller. So I've got floppy support as well as a card reader. The thing takes up 2 USB ports--one for the card reader and one for the USB socket.

Chuck(G)
January 21st, 2013, 08:39 PM
The only ones I've seen have been black. Beige might be an option if you can find it, but it seems like everything's black nowadays. A decade from now, the color du jour will probably be puce.

Jimmy
January 22nd, 2013, 07:58 AM
Thomas:

I have a combination 3.5 disk drive and card reader in Beige. Let me know if it will work for your system. I am sending the USB PCI card I can include the drive with it.

Jimmy

bettablue
January 22nd, 2013, 04:23 PM
That will be perfect Jimmy. And, I hope the final piece to the puzzle. The computer is starting to take shape, with the system board mounted in the case. It is a perfect fit. Now when the rest of the small parts arrive, I'll be adding them in. Hopefully, it will only be a matter of a couple of days before the system is up and running. There are so many options available for this mobo it's truly unbelievable. The manual is making things much easier too. My wife printed that off just a couple of days ago, so it's been a fantastic resource. I was also informed that everything I ordered is correct for the mobo, so it should boot up with no issues when completed.

Again Jimmy, Thanks for everything.

What I find even more unbelievable is that you keep sending me things. I don't know what I did to deserve such kindness, so instead of looking at everything in one way, or another, I'll say thank you once more.




Thomas:

I have a combination 3.5 disk drive and card reader in Beige. Let me know if it will work for your system. I am sending the USB PCI card I can include the drive with it.

Jimmy

bettablue
January 26th, 2013, 07:12 PM
Today was very productive with my new tweener build. Not only did I get the mother board mounted into the case, but almost everything is completely wired up with the exception of the power supply connections and a couple of possible power/reset/hard disc switch and LED cluster issues.

I can't believe the idiot seller. He included a power supply with the case, but it's an ATX power supply with a cooling fan on top which protrudes into the hard drive mounting area. In order to install even one hard disc, the power supply has to be removed and replaced with the correct one. When I contacted the seller, he basically told me I was full of crap, and that there is no way that it would have shipped with the incorrect power supply. He even went so far as to tell me not to buy from his company in the future. Needless to say, I forwarded his responses to E-Bay along with a complaint. I'm still keeping the case though. Just because the guy is an idiot... well.

Luckily, with all of my other spare parts machines, I have a few power supplies which will fit this case properly. As of right now, the power supply issue, and the fact that I'm awaiting the arrival of the final two pieces; a beige 3.5 floppy drive with built-in card reader, and the USB connections for the mobo header, are all that's really holding me back.

Jimmy assured me that he already shipped them out on Thursday, so they should be here by the end of the week.

As I have mentioned; everything else has been pretty much configured in the computer, so when the parts do show up, all I have to do is plug them in and and fire this baby up! I'll be holding off on installing the power supply until the remaining parts arrive too. But that will be an easy install.

I am a bit worried about booting it up. Since this was my first build where all of the ports had to be added manually, I double and triple checked everything from jumpers to switches and everything in between. There are a couple of things in the front panel cluster that have me curious. On the motherboard, there are two places to connect the case speaker. One is labeled Speaker Ground which is slot 3, and the other is labeled Speaker Main slot 5 or 7. Since all of the connections on the board are paired, and the connectors match perfectly, I.E. 2 pins, and one connector with 2 connectors for each pin, there is no way to connect or bridge the two speaker connections. One set of 2 for the Speaker ground, and one set of 2 for Speaker main. (Did I explain that sufficiently?) So which one should I use? I could just wait till I wire up the new power supply to figure it out. Whichever paired pins work will be the right one... I was just hoping to get it cleared up beforehand.

I was right about something else too. So far, this has been a fun build. There were a few little quirks the case seemed to throw out there as I assembled it and added the drives. For one, the rails seem to be set back on the drive too far by about 1/2" This is not on just one drive either. The rails are positioned as far as they will go to the front, and yet the drives won't set flush to the case. I'll have to drill new holes on each of the guide rails so that when they're mounted, there won't be any movement by the drives themselves.

Lastly; there are absolutely no markings on this case whatsoever: no serial number, no manufacturer sticker, no manufacturer stamp, nothing. Is there some way to find out anything about this case; when it was made, and by whom? I would like to know SOMETHING about this case, when it was first built, what company produced it, and if it was some kind of special run for a specific company. I've seen a few of those previously, although those were typically manufactured in the 2000's. From what I can tell, it appears that this particular case was manufactured so later than about 1998 or 1999. I mean when was the last AT socket 7 sold as a new machine?

Thanks everyone, your insight, and direction were especially valuable for this build.

I'll post some photos soon.

GottaLottaStuff
January 26th, 2013, 07:43 PM
Before you drill holes in the drive rails, post some pictures. Just to be on the safe side. :)

bettablue
January 29th, 2013, 02:39 PM
Gothcha covered, but there is no need. I see where the rails were reversible. After switching them around, the two 5.25" drives fit perfectly flush with the rest of the case front.

This has been a lot of fun. Today, I went through and made all of the mother board's header connections. (with the exception of the USB which could not be located, I presume) Still Jimmy got me hooked up very nicely. The last package included the beige 3.5" floppy drive with build in internal card reader, and a 4 port USB PCE card. all of the drives were installed, I pulled the fan from the top of the power supply, and relocated it so that air flow is not impeded through the PSU, and both hard disks drives now fit where they're supposed to, without the fan getting in the way.

I won't be able to do much more till this weekend because of medical testing and such, but if all goes well, I should have the computer up and running by the beginning of next week.




Before you drill holes in the drive rails, post some pictures. Just to be on the safe side. :)

bettablue
February 9th, 2013, 09:31 PM
Because of the interior layout in the desktop case I'm building this computer into, a standard IDE floppy ribbon cable just won't work, so I bought a much longer one from stone. The replacement cable should be here by the middle of the week. Until then, I'm actually holding off on doing anything more, because I want to make sure that all of the drives, and internal components are working properly. Then I'll be going for the final power up sequence. I'm still kinda going back and forth in my mind as to which OS I'm going to ultimately install. The components I have in the system all seem to be useable with Windows 95 B/C and/or Windows 98/98 SE.

This really has turned our to be a great learning experience. So hardware wise, the computer is almost complete. This really will be a great tweener, and vintage gaming computer.

Of course, I'll post a full set of photos after I get her up and running. The next thing is to give the machine a name. In keeping with the naming conventions I have, with my primary computer called "Enterprise", my wife's laptop "Voyager", the NetBook is "Defiant" and of course, "Alice" the name of my IBM 5150 PC. So now I need to find a good name for this PC. I want to keep things in the Star Trek themes, but because this is an older computer, I want something from the Star Trek past. Any ideas?

RWallmow
February 9th, 2013, 10:49 PM
Because of the interior layout in the desktop case I'm building this computer into, a standard IDE floppy ribbon cable just won't work, so I bought a much longer one from stone. The replacement cable should be here by the middle of the week. Until then, I'm actually holding off on doing anything more, because I want to make sure that all of the drives, and internal components are working properly. Then I'll be going for the final power up sequence. I'm still kinda going back and forth in my mind as to which OS I'm going to ultimately install. The components I have in the system all seem to be useable with Windows 95 B/C and/or Windows 98/98 SE.

This really has turned our to be a great learning experience. So hardware wise, the computer is almost complete. This really will be a great tweener, and vintage gaming computer.

Of course, I'll post a full set of photos after I get her up and running. The next thing is to give the machine a name. In keeping with the naming conventions I have, with my primary computer called "Enterprise", my wife's laptop "Voyager", the NetBook is "Defiant" and of course, "Alice" the name of my IBM 5150 PC. So now I need to find a good name for this PC. I want to keep things in the Star Trek themes, but because this is an older computer, I want something from the Star Trek past. Any ideas?

Excelsior or Reliant if you want to keep it old school from the first few movies and not too obscure ;-)

Stone
February 10th, 2013, 04:08 AM
I would name her... Troi. :-)

Jimmy
February 10th, 2013, 09:37 AM
Might better name her "Lucky", I am just praying that the old motherboard, which has not been tested in probably longer than I have comes to life.

bettablue
February 10th, 2013, 02:13 PM
I'm sire I'll find out soon enough. When the replacement cable I bought from stone arrives, I should have everything needed to complete the computer. That's when I'll know for sure if the mother board still works. Honestly though, you did a great job of packing everything, so if you stored the mother board in the static bag, I don't think there will be too much of an issue.

In the event that is works, then I've decided to go with the name Reliant. It seems fitting.

Jimmy
February 10th, 2013, 02:33 PM
If it does not, I have a few more. Do you need anything else for it?

Hope you are feeling better.

Jimmy

bettablue
February 10th, 2013, 02:41 PM
As far as I can tell, I'm just waiting for the longer ribbon cable to connect both floppy drives. stone shipped it on Wednesday, or Thursday, so it will get here around the middle of the week. That's all I need for now.

After the cable arrives, I'll connect it to monitor and keyboard and go for boot up. That's when I'll know if it's truly OK or not.

Stone
February 10th, 2013, 02:48 PM
You know you can check everything without the longer cable. The floppies don't need to be in their respective housings to run them successfully with a standard cable. In fact the floppies don't even need to be connected to check the motherboard. I actually prefer to check systems by adding one or two modules at a time. That way you can tell exactly where a problem lies. It's usually harder to isolate a problem when you have to look at everything as a possible cause. :-)

bettablue
February 10th, 2013, 05:55 PM
That much I know. It'j really just a matter of moving things around. Remember, I'm the one armed man here.. It's not that easy for me to move things around with only one arm. So waiting for the cable to arrive isn't the only reason for waiting. I have a friend who ic coming over after the ribbon arrives, so he can not only see what I was able to put together, but so he can move the desktop around to where it needs to be. Same goes for the monitor. I have a pretty heave 19" CRT that I'll be using with this build too. And you know how awkward those can be.

I appreciate your input though. And don't worry, I'll let everyone know hot it all goes when we do finally get the system set up.

Thanks again stone.


You know you can check everything without the longer cable. The floppies don't need to be in their respective housings to run them successfully with a standard cable. In fact the floppies don't even need to be connected to check the motherboard. I actually prefer to check systems by adding one or two modules at a time. That way you can tell exactly where a problem lies. It's usually harder to isolate a problem when you have to look at everything as a possible cause. :-)

MikeS
February 11th, 2013, 09:00 AM
don't worry, I'll let everyone know hot it all goes when we do finally get the system set upI can't wait... ;-)

bettablue
February 18th, 2013, 02:57 PM
I can't wait... ;-)

Hooray! Today was a good day with the new tweener build. I had a sneaky suspicion that when I removed the fan on the power supply that came pre-installed in the new case I bought, that the PSU wouldn't work. Well, I was proven correct. After replacing the power supply for another known good PSU, the computer booted successfully to an error prompt asking for an OS. So as far as I can tell, I did everything else right. I have to let is sit for a while, because now of course, the wife wants me to spend even more time with her.

I'll be installing either Win 95 B/C or Win 98 as an OS over the next few days. I already have valid versions, with the associated serial numbers, so there won't be any problem with that. The only thing I'm worried about is if I have the multi card reader connected to the internal USB hub correctly. I guess I'll find out after Windows is installed.

Question: Is there a reliable source for locating drivers for some of the hardware used in this build; in particular, the multi-card reader that is part of the 3.5" floppy drive? Or is there a driver disk available that contains multiple generic drivers for various hardware?

Also, I have a copy of OSR2. I've never used it, but I hear that it is pretty stable. What are your thoughts about possibly dual booting the system with either Windows on one drive and OSR2 on the other?

Thanks stone for selling me that extended floppy cable. It came in very handy when it came time to connect the floppy drives together. A standard length cable would have fallen about 3 inches short.

I also want to thank all of you for helping me through this build. I've leaned a lot more than I had thought I would, and I have a good looking tweener because of it. Give me a couple of days and I'll have it up and running. And of course, I'll post some photos on my FB page, and on my home page at www.allthingsdos.

DOS lives on!!
February 18th, 2013, 03:20 PM
Well done so far. I'd put Windows 95 OSR2 on it. That version had support for a broader spectrum of hardware devices. Finding drivers for the components will require identification of them (Ofc...). The card reader should have some ID on it. You'll probably find the driver for it over on Driverguide.

Stone
February 18th, 2013, 03:35 PM
My tweener has a pair of mobile hard drive racks in it so I can boot whatever OS I want on any drive I like. I just slide the drive caddy into the slot and turn the machine on. DOS 6.22, WIN 98, WIN ME, WIN XP... I have each on them on a different HD and they're all available for immediate boot. Nothing could be simpler. This is true... ‘plug'n play’ convenience. :-)

bettablue
March 4th, 2013, 08:45 AM
My tweener has a pair of mobile hard drive racks in it so I can boot whatever OS I want on any drive I like. I just slide the drive caddy into the slot and turn the machine on. DOS 6.22, WIN 98, WIN ME, WIN XP... I have each on them on a different HD and they're all available for immediate boot. Nothing could be simpler. This is true... ‘plug'n play’ convenience. :-)

I got the new tweener finishes yesterday. Yeah, it took some time, but now because there were any problems with the mobo. It's just trying to do a lot of things with only one good arm from a wheelchair. The system boots up just fine, and Windows 98 SE was installed on one of the 20Gig hard drives. I have to admit, whan Jimmy sent it down to me, I was pretty nervous about assembling the system from that level. I have it currently running with a Model M keyboard from IBM along with a Microsoft Green Mouse. (Sorry, not the green eyed mouse) And so far, all of the peripherals seem to be working OK.

There was one thing I absolutely had to do, and that was change out the power supply. For some reason, the case manufacturer decided to put a fan on the top of the power supply where it interferes with mounting dual hard discs.

Not only does the system have 2 20 Gig hard discs, but dual floppy drives, one is a 3.5" 1.44 Meg and the other a 5.25" 360Kb unit. Plus there is a DVD reader/writer, USB, parallel, dual 9 pin serial, and dual game port adapters and all of them work perfectly.

Now it's time to say Thanks Jimmy, and to the rest of you who provided answeres to questions I had along the way. I have a feeling that I'll have this computer for some time.