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View Full Version : USB 2.0 bracket on USB 1.0 header?



RaptorZX3
May 19th, 2013, 09:53 PM
Well i ordered 2x USB 2.0 brackets on Ebay, they were like 2.22$ each, so no big deal. But i want to know, can i use those on a USB 1.0 header on the board? Also, if i plug in a USB mouse on this connector, will it get detected when installing Windows 98SE? (i'm asking because maybe USB 1.0 is too old to detect those things right away, though my Pentium 3 + Windows 98SE didn't had problem detecting it).

I'm mostly asking this because you know how much of a hassle it is to find PS/2 and Serial brackets and making your mouse work with those, plus the header on the board (AOpen AP53) seem to have 8 pins, but the lower middle 2 are missing, kinda like the USB header where there's a pin missing. And also because i have 3 boards of the same model, the BIOS version is slightly older on other boards though, but still AMI BIOS, with a Windows-like GUI

I did enabled USB 1.0 and PS/2 in the BIOS, and hardware-enabled PS/2 on the board (jumper) as well.

FishFinger
May 20th, 2013, 01:38 AM
There's no real different between USB 1.0 and 2.0 brackets. They'll work fine.

Whether the mouse works depends on the motherboard and BIOS. Does the BIOS have an option for "Legacy USB" or something similar?

RaptorZX3
May 20th, 2013, 02:40 AM
legacy? it's written "USB 1.0" in the BIOS, i don't think it can be more "legacy" than this, it's a Pentium 1 board, and i was surprised to discover this P1 board have a USB header on it.

krebizfan
May 20th, 2013, 03:16 AM
A lot of Pentium motherboards had USB headers. With systems from 1996, the USB support did not work. Which motherboard are you using? Have you checked for a BIOS update?

Note that USB headers hadn't quite standardised at first. Check the motherboard manual or see http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1713

If your planned OS handles USB devices, track down a cheap PCI USB card. Much simpler and correctly handles USB hubs.

RaptorZX3
May 20th, 2013, 05:33 AM
the cheapest USB PCI cards only support PCI 2.2, while the board have PCI 2.1, and i was told this card doesn't support Windows 98. So i might have to check for old PCI USB cards that work with PCI 2.1

FishFinger
May 20th, 2013, 08:58 AM
legacy? it's written "USB 1.0" in the BIOS, i don't think it can be more "legacy" than this, it's a Pentium 1 board, and i was surprised to discover this P1 board have a USB header on it.

"Legacy USB" is shorthand for "let me use a USB keyboard/mouse as if they were PS/2". If your board supports it then you'll be be able to use USB keyboards/mice without the OS having to support USB. You can even use them in DOS, or use a USB keyboard to enter the BIOS menu.

USB on older boards is always a bit hit and miss though. Some of them were designed before the USB spec was finalised, and they tend to have a few odd quirks. Sometimes certain mouse/keyboard/motherboard combinations just don't work together, even though the individual devices all work fine separately. This was still a problem with some P2/P3/P4 boards too, so it's not limited only to older ones. The only real way to know for sure is to plug the mouse in and try it.

njroadfan
May 20th, 2013, 01:40 PM
Chances are those USB brackets will not work. Why? Because they were not standardized in the Pentium era. It took quite a few years until the modern agreed upon pin-out appeared on boards. What chipset does the machine have? I have run into the "non-working" USB bit with a few 430VX chipset boards back in my service days of the late 90s. The BIOS support was barely there and installing a USB port bracket (the ones with the individual pins separated) according to the pin out in the manual resulted in a bright light in the case.... of a growing fuse!

430TX boards were generally the first to have properly working USB 1.1 support. Regarding USB 2.0 PCI cards, I never had a problem using them in old systems with circa 1995 PCI implementations. They should work, but you will not get any sort of legacy emulation of keyboard and mouse.

Chuck(G)
May 20th, 2013, 02:38 PM
Worst case, you have to rearrange some pins on the connector. Up until a few years ago, USB brackets sometimes came with a bunch of single-conductor headers hanging off the end of the ribbon cable. You simply plugged them onto the motherboard header in whatever order your manual called them out.

Bottom line: USB 1.x and 2.x still have 2 signal leads and 2 power supply leads. The motherboard connector may be different, but the signals are the same. Brackets haven't changed much in 30 years either.

njroadfan
May 20th, 2013, 04:37 PM
Worst case, you have to rearrange some pins on the connector. Up until a few years ago, USB brackets sometimes came with a bunch of single-conductor headers hanging off the end of the ribbon cable. You simply plugged them onto the motherboard header in whatever order your manual called them out.

Bottom line: USB 1.x and 2.x still have 2 signal leads and 2 power supply leads. The motherboard connector may be different, but the signals are the same. Brackets haven't changed much in 30 years either.

See above, even with the single conductor headers and a documented pin-out, somehow smoke was let out of the machine. All I could think of is somehow the USB "ground" pin was connected to the backplate metal or the port shield, thus grounding it to the case. Not a problem when properly wired, but causes a nasty short if its on sort of line producing voltage! Also, there appears to be two different revisions of this board, one with USB and one without. I can't find any pinouts for the header on that board. The ATX version of the board has a USB header, but no pinouts listed. I would not be surprised if it used the "Early Intel Type" pinout on that website linked to above.

Chuck(G)
May 20th, 2013, 08:42 PM
Dunno how far back yours go, but my Amptron AT-style boards have functioning USB headers. My Tyan Tomcat did too--and Tyan even issued a late documentation change documenting the fact that the USB ports were there! Were there any 486 boards with onboard UHCIs?

As for magic smoke, well, I guess that's what DMMs are for. ;)

RaptorZX3
May 21st, 2013, 12:47 AM
my AOpen AP53 board have PS/2, COM1, COM2, USB header, pretty much all in 1 area, near the big keyboard connector. And like i said, i got 3 of those boards, the other one being an AOpen AP5VM.

The one with the Pentium 200 MMX had the R3.60 BIOS originally, upgraded to R3.C0 (latest one released for it). The full model number being "AP53 95140-3" if it can help anybody. And in the BIOS it clearly say "USB 1.0", not 0.x