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Springbok
September 10th, 2013, 06:37 AM
Hey guys,

So I bought a MCA SCSI adapter for my IBM PS/2 Model 70. I have seem mods for the Amiga that allow CF drives to be used instead of the HD's. I was wondering if there is any way to do this for the PS/2 through the SCSI port. I know I could just buy a SCSI HD, but I am would like to explore this option.

I have found a SCSI->CF adapter on eBay (link below). It's not cheap at $130. Would this work? Are there any other options?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CF-PowerMonster-II-CF-2-5-SCSI-Converter-Card-New-condition-/300961815359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4612b8db3f

Maverick1978
September 10th, 2013, 07:37 AM
In theory it would work, as it's SCSI->IDE and a CF on an IDE certainly works. I don't have $130 to spend on it to try for sure that the electronics doesn't introduce a problem with the CF, however.

Personally, I would absolutely LOVE to see a microchannel version of our XT-IDE board. That said, I don't know how much demand that there would be for such a product - I could certainly use a handful of them.

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 07:42 AM
Computers with built in IDE (like Amiga 1200, Amiga 4000) are easy to adapt to Compact Flash because the CF interface is basically IDE.
The adapter you mention could be used and also SCSI-IDE bridges with a CF adapter. They all start out at around $129 or so.
There used to be a guy selling Acard brand SCSI-IDE bridges for around $70 but I haven't seen him on ebay in a while.

A cheap option would be to use SCA Scsi drives which are cheap and plentiful on ebay (usually server pulls) and buy a $2 SCA to 50 pin adapter on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-SCA-80-Pin-F-to-50-Pin-M-Internal-Adapter-/220854796238?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item336bf8bfce

Good luck and perhaps someone has a better option than what I have presented.
Alex

Maverick1978
September 10th, 2013, 07:52 AM
A cheap option would be to use SCA Scsi drives which are cheap and plentiful on ebay (usually server pulls) and buy a $2 SCA to 50 pin adapter on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-SCA-80-Pin-F-to-50-Pin-M-Internal-Adapter-/220854796238?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item336bf8bfce
This is what I do for my SCSI-based systems, however this doesn't give us the quiet/cool option that many of us are seeking with our vintage PCs. And it doesn't help you if you're looking to use a 2.5" SCSI in the MAC SE or with an Apple IIGS with an intenalized HD. Thankfully, the OP is using an IBM with a 3.5" bay, so using a low-profile SCSI pin adapter along with a newer drive should work fine.

Springbok
September 10th, 2013, 08:19 AM
The SCSI to IDE adapters are expensive.

Would this work?

SCSI to SATA adapter ($12)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-UF070-SAS-SCSI-to-SATA-Serial-ATA-Hard-Drive-Converter-Adapter-Connector-/390642771340?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item5af41fa58c

SATA to CF ($4.53)

http://www.amazon.com/Bootable-Compact-Flash-Converter-Adapter/dp/B0030D3T16/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 12:03 PM
The SCSI to IDE adapters are expensive.

Would this work?

SCSI to SATA adapter ($12)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-UF070-SAS-SCSI-to-SATA-Serial-ATA-Hard-Drive-Converter-Adapter-Connector-/390642771340?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item5af41fa58c

SATA to CF ($4.53)

http://www.amazon.com/Bootable-Compact-Flash-Converter-Adapter/dp/B0030D3T16/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_0

No, that won't work. The adapter you mention is not SCSI to SATA but SAS to SATA:
Dell (Original) UF070 Interposer Board for SAS drives. This adapter plugs onto a SAS drive with an SFF-8482 Female connector and presents a SATA2 drive connector. It can be used to hook a SAS drive onto a SATA controller.

pearce_jj
September 10th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Anyone got any experience with MCA designs? Provided we can get the bus arbitration logic sorted I don't see anything massively frightening in the prospect of building an MCA 16-bit CompactFlash adapter.

Springbok
September 10th, 2013, 12:38 PM
OK, how about this....

I bought this Apaptec MCA SCSI card ($22.55 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380703290687

Then I bought this Adaptec 50-pin to PCMCIA cable ($22 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151116920023

Then I bought this PCMCIA CF adapter ($4.14 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290942150372

Then I bought this 8GB CF card ($12.49 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320891109275

So now the question is....

Will they work together? The card is a 16-bit card. The cable "looks" like it will work with that card. I am hoping the other end of the cable is a male PCMCIA slot in which I can fit the PCMCI CF adapter.

Total investment is about $63. No matter what, I will keep the SCSI card, so really the total investment for this experiment is $41.

What you guys think?

Chuck(G)
September 10th, 2013, 12:39 PM
AFAIK, the MCA IP is still under license by IBM. Perhaps there's more information on its official status somewhere. Implementing a reverse-engineered solution might run afoul of the suits at Big Blue.

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 12:46 PM
OK, how about this....

I bought this Apaptec MCA SCSI card ($22.55 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380703290687

Then I bought this Adaptec 50-pin to PCMCIA cable ($22 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151116920023

Then I bought this PCMCIA CF adapter ($4.14 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290942150372

Then I bought this 8GB CF card ($12.49 shipped)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320891109275

So now the question is....

Will they work together? The card is a 16-bit card. The cable "looks" like it will work with that card. I am hoping the other end of the cable is a male PCMCIA slot in which I can fit the PCMCI CF adapter.

Total investment is about $63. No matter what, I will keep the SCSI card, so really the total investment for this experiment is $41.

What you guys think?

Hate to break it to you but that Adaptec cable you bought is for the Adaptec 1460 PCMCIA SCSI card. You could have bought the card with the cable together for about $22 shipped:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adaptec-Slim-SCSI-PC-Card-W-Cable-997400-APA-1460A-STSI-/171107385056?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item27d6cb7ee0

Either way, the combination you have won't work...
I really don't think there is a work around for this without an actual SCSI -> IDE Bridge device...

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 12:47 PM
AFAIK, the MCA IP is still under license by IBM. Perhaps there's more information on its official status somewhere. Implementing a reverse-engineered solution might run afoul of the suits at Big Blue.

I doubt IBM will be going against a few hobbyists for this. Who knows, IBM may be willing to help out if you get to the right people.
Maybe Mike B knows someone at IBM who might be friendly to this idea?

Old Thrashbarg
September 10th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Then I bought this Adaptec 50-pin to PCMCIA cable ($22 shipped)

That is not what you think it is. It's not a SCSI->PCMCIA converter. That's just a breakout cable that goes with an Adaptec PCMCIA SlimSCSI card... in other words, it's for connecting SCSI devices up to a SCSI card in a laptop.

So, no, your plan won't work. If you want to use PCMCIA, you need something like this (http://www.mpl.ch/t2331.html). And it won't be cheap... figure $70-100.

Alternately, you could look for an MCA IDE card. They do exist... and I think there were even a few EIDE ones that would support up to 8.4GB drives, which would be fine for an 8GB CF card. I dunno how hard they are to find, but I wouldn't expect them to be appreciably more expensive than an active SCSI->IDE/PCMCIA/CF/whatever converter.

Springbok
September 10th, 2013, 01:22 PM
That is not what you think it is. It's not a SCSI->PCMCIA converter. That's just a breakout cable that goes with an Adaptec PCMCIA SlimSCSI card... in other words, it's for connecting SCSI devices up to a SCSI card in a laptop.

So, no, your plan won't work. If you want to use PCMCIA, you need something like this (http://www.mpl.ch/t2331.html). And it won't be cheap... figure $70-100.

Alternately, you could look for an MCA IDE card. They do exist... and I think there were even a few EIDE ones that would support up to 8.4GB drives, which would be fine for an 8GB CF card. I dunno how hard they are to find, but I wouldn't expect them to be appreciably more expensive than an active SCSI->IDE/PCMCIA/CF/whatever converter.

Bullocks! Any idea where I can find a "SCSI->IDE/PCMCIA/CF/whatever converter". That link you gave does not sell them.

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 01:48 PM
MCA IDE cards like the Arco AC-1070, AC-1075, etc.. are as hard to find as MCA sound cards!
Any way you look at it you are going to spend around $150 for the SCSI-> IDE bridge, IDE to CF adapter and a small CF card.
I recommend searching for other items but in the meantime get a cheap SCA to 50 PIN SCSI converter:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-SCA-80-Pin-F-to-50-Pin-M-Internal-Adapter-/220854796238?pt=US_Internal_Network_Cards&hash=item336bf8bfce

and a cheap 4.3GB or 9.1GB SCA SCSI drive like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-BD009122BA-9-1GB-Internal-10K-10000-RPM-ULTRA-WIDE-SCSI-127962-001-HD-TRAY-/350566667550?pt=US_Internal_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item519f66d51e

Your total cost (since you already have the SCSI card and cable), $12.50.

njroadfan
September 10th, 2013, 06:51 PM
AFAIK, the MCA IP is still under license by IBM. Perhaps there's more information on its official status somewhere. Implementing a reverse-engineered solution might run afoul of the suits at Big Blue.

Patents should be expiring on all this stuff by now. It depends when it was filed, but the earliest stuff (MCA appeared on the market in 1987) likely has already expired. Can one create a "dumb" MCA card with jumpers? I know Creative got away with it on the Soundblaster MCV (at least with IRQs). IDE is a simple enough bus that one doesn't have to worry about DMA, even though it negates one of the advantages of the Microchannel standard. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to implement a card ID function, the thing is likely going to need a ROM on it anyway!

njroadfan
September 10th, 2013, 06:58 PM
Interesting MCA patents.
https://www.google.com/patents/US5544334
https://www.google.com/patents/US5379386
https://www.google.com/patents/US5038320
https://www.google.com/patents/US5379403

amadama
September 10th, 2013, 07:19 PM
Interesting MCA patents.
https://www.google.com/patents/US5544334
https://www.google.com/patents/US5379386
https://www.google.com/patents/US5038320
https://www.google.com/patents/US5379403

I like that last one:
Method and interface adapter for interfacing an ISA board to an MCA system by the issuance of an ILLINI-CDCHRDY signal from the interface adapter

I wonder if there are any MCA -> ISA adapters out there?

krebizfan
September 10th, 2013, 07:50 PM
I think some of the very obscure PS/2 Industrial models had both MCA and ISA slots so the MCA-ISA bridge was on the planar board.

Chuck(G)
September 10th, 2013, 08:25 PM
Well, there was the Tandy 5000...

Springbok
September 11th, 2013, 04:38 AM
Dream......shattered :(

Don't know if I want to spend $130 on a SCSI to IDE bridge. Will go the cheaper HD route.

Thanks all for the input.

Springbok
September 11th, 2013, 04:46 AM
Well I do have 1 follow-up.

Is there a limit to the drive capacity. I.e, the PS2 Model 70 will only recognize/operate a SCSI drive of no more than X capacity?

I will be running Windows for Work groups 3.11 and Dos 6.1


Thanks

Springbok
September 11th, 2013, 06:16 AM
Out of curiosity... would this work?

It is from eBay australia, but if it works, I will contact the seller and see if he ships to the US.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCSI-ULTRA3-ULTRA320-U320-to-IDE-Converter-adaptor-/111144396373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19e0b8e655

pearce_jj
September 11th, 2013, 09:06 AM
Personally I'd have no concern over copyrights and patents in designing an MCA board. Does anyone have a tech ref for a PS/2?

george
September 13th, 2013, 11:23 AM
Out of curiosity... would this work?

It is from eBay australia, but if it works, I will contact the seller and see if he ships to the US.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCSI-ULTRA3-ULTRA320-U320-to-IDE-Converter-adaptor-/111144396373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item19e0b8e655
It won't work. Every SCSI to IDE converter requires a controller, e.g. some sort of MCU (IC).

dorkbert
September 13th, 2013, 11:37 AM
that actually isn't what the seller claims to be; there are no active components (visible) at all. my guess is that it's just an adapter to some proprietary drive back plane of an IDE drive enclosure. The only thing SCSI about it is the SCA connector that has been repurposed. try plugging this into a SCSI back plane will probably fry something.

njroadfan
September 17th, 2013, 11:36 AM
Personally I'd have no concern over copyrights and patents in designing an MCA board. Does anyone have a tech ref for a PS/2?

http://www.mcamafia.de/pdf/pdfref.htm has some documents.

evildragon
September 17th, 2013, 01:46 PM
My model PS/2 25 has flash installed on it. XT-IDE, I love it. Not an MCA system though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/model25planar2.jpg~original

RWallmow
September 18th, 2013, 04:55 AM
I have a Microtech SCSI card reader (CF/PCMCIA/SmartMedia), I have had it for YEARS, but I know they come up on ebay now and then for under $100, probably the cheapest way to connect a CF card up to SCSI bus. (I must note the only ones I see on ebay right now are VERY spendy, but they do come along reasonably priced now and then).

I got mine back about 2000ish when I got my first digi-cam, there were no other internal card readers back then other than the SCSI ones, and my camera had RS232 serial, not USB, so it was terribly slow to transfer images, got that SCSI card reader and never looked back ;-)

Since I no longer use it for my digi-cam (I have faster and more capable USB2 based internal card readers now) I have experimented with using it for SSD storage, it seems to work well for that, so long as you use QUALITY CF cards, and you terminate the SCSI chain with a proper "external" terminator if its the only device (my card reader HAS a term setting, however it doesn't seem to work if its alone on the bus).

Springbok
September 22nd, 2013, 12:30 PM
Hey guys... would this SCSI to IDE card work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-RoHs-SCSI-IDE-Converter-Card-Assembly-NEW-03N4811-/331007045528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d118eaf98&autorefresh=true

amadama
September 22nd, 2013, 01:13 PM
Hey guys... would this SCSI to IDE card work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-RoHs-SCSI-IDE-Converter-Card-Assembly-NEW-03N4811-/331007045528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d118eaf98&autorefresh=true

No, that's for an IBM P-series server:
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/powersys/v3r1m5/index.jsp?topic=%2Fiphau_p5%2Fpa570.htm