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evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 02:06 AM
I have my M-Audio MIDI controller plugged into my model 25's MIDI port, and currently am using FM Organ to play live and hear the OPL2 chip sing what I want.. Only problem, it's built in sounds kinda suck even for an OPL2, but it's monophonic, I can't do any chords at all.

Is there any kind of FM Organ replacement that is 8086 compatible that will let me control the OPL2 my way?

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 09:30 AM
This is a good question, I'd like to know of one myself. (Love that OPL2/3 sound...) There's a thread for MIDI players over at VOGONS here, (http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18412&p=134013) but I don't know if any of them support acting as an instrument for external input...the utilities disk for the Gravis Ultrasound has a program like that, but I think it's only for GUS.

High_Treason
September 21st, 2013, 10:06 AM
I know of no way to do it in realtime. I used IMF Creator and ADPlay. If I want stereo or other fancy effects, I just use a multi-track recording. Though I've got enough synths that I rarely want to do this anymore.

It may be possible to get an old Yamaha module cheap, like a TX7 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niFGy1ecwig - and use that instead though it is a little different to the YMF262/3812. Similarly, I bought a DX-100 to make Mega Drive music as it was easier than programming for the MD and flashing ROM cartridges as well as a few failed experiments.

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 10:49 AM
He doesn't mean "mono" as in mono-vs.-stereo, he means monophonic as in only-plays-one-note.

Anyway, the TX7 is nifty (I'm actually selling mine, but only because I got a full DX7,) but the OPL series chips have a distinctive sound to them that's not the same as any other Yamaha FM chip, on account of being only two-operator and making up for the lost complexity with multiple waveforms for the operators. (The TX81Z/DX11/V50 do this as well, and would be your best bet for mimicking OPL2/3 sounds on a pro synth, but they have a different, only partially overlapping set of operator waveforms.) There really should be a way to do this live, it just needs the right software...

High_Treason
September 21st, 2013, 11:21 AM
Funny thing is I meant to mention the TX-81Z but having just woken up somehow forgot to do that as well as misinterpreting the "monophonic" in the post.

Also, I notice you have a CZ-1000, my favorite synth :)

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 11:36 AM
Yeah, I spotted it in Music-Go-Round for cheap (with a flight case, even!) Never had any experience with the CZ series before that, but it's quite interesting - very much an alternate-universe equivalent to Yamaha FM, with a bit of a different sound to it...

Anyway, I asked about this (http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36876&p=322468) over on VOGONS...let's see if they know anything...

Plasma
September 21st, 2013, 12:29 PM
Windows 3.1 will do realtime MIDI using OPL2. 3.1 requires at least a 286 though. 3.0 will run on an 8086 but I've never used it.

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 12:34 PM
True, but the instrument set used by the Windows drivers is underwhelming compared to what the OPL2/3 are actually capable of, and you can't change it...

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 01:17 PM
Okay, according to Cloudschatze, Adlib's Instrument Maker (part of the Visual Composer package (http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=AdLib_Visual_Composer)) can take MIDI input over an MPU-401 interface, so if you can get a suitable MPU-401 emulator running, this should maybe fit the bill...

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 02:24 PM
Okay, according to Cloudschatze, Adlib's Instrument Maker (part of the Visual Composer package (http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=AdLib_Visual_Composer)) can take MIDI input over an MPU-401 interface, so if you can get a suitable MPU-401 emulator running, this should maybe fit the bill...

I will give this a shot. Not fully MPU-401 since it's just a SoundBlaster 2.0, but my MIDI keyboard is able to talk over it, in and out.

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 02:43 PM
Yeah... I'm afraid I haven't done enough with DOS MIDI to know, but I think there's MPU-401 emulation software (like the MPU401.COM packaged with Visual Composer) that should do the job...

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 05:20 PM
I tried the Adlib Visual Composer. It plays the music, I can manually paint in my music and do all that cool stuff I like. Problem though, is that as soon as I tried to enable mini input, and clicked ok, it froze.. :(

So close!! I like this editor though, it's perfect! There's gotta be a way to make this work.

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 05:32 PM
I tried the Adlib Visual Composer. It plays the music, I can manually paint in my music and do all that cool stuff I like. Problem though, is that as soon as I tried to enable mini input, and clicked ok, it froze.. :(

So close!! I like this editor though, it's perfect! There's gotta be a way to make this work.

Oh man I hope I can use this. Adlib Instrument Maker is AWESOME! I have a nice grungy sound coming from the YM3812 with loads of bass. It sounds so awesome, I just can't control it except with the computer keyboard which is limited to one octave.

Cloudschatze
September 21st, 2013, 05:39 PM
There's gotta be a way to make this work.

There is. Install an MPU-401 compatible card. :)

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 06:00 PM
There is. Install an MPU-401 compatible card. :)

And where am I to put it? I have two ISA slots. Both 8-bit.

One slot has XT-IDE, the other SoundBlaster 2.0. Where exactly am I going to put this MPU-401 card? ;) All the SoundBlaster's that support MPU-401 (in their broken way though), are 16-bit.

High_Treason
September 21st, 2013, 06:45 PM
I seem to think some models of SB16 work in an 8-Bit slot if you have a NEC V20, but don't take my word for it.
There was talk about such a thing on this forum; http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/archive/index.php/t-35099.html

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 07:40 PM
Have you tried an MPU-401 emulator like that MPU401.COM?

And yeah, FM is great for grungy techno-industrial sounds... :D

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 07:44 PM
Tried my SB16, same thing, freezes..

I had to load the MPU401.COM, otherwise the midi input option in composer is greyed out..

commodorejohn
September 21st, 2013, 08:29 PM
Hmm. What was the original sound card you were using? Maybe there's a specific emulation driver that works with it.

(On the other hand, it might just be that you're out of luck with an 8086 - being as there's no way to trap and emulate access to virtual ports - but I don't know enough about MPU-401 interfaces on the PC to know whether that would be an issue...)

evildragon
September 21st, 2013, 08:31 PM
Hmm. What was the original sound card you were using? Maybe there's a specific emulation driver that works with it.

(On the other hand, it might just be that you're out of luck with an 8086 - being as there's no way to trap and emulate access to virtual ports - but I don't know enough about MPU-401 interfaces on the PC to know whether that would be an issue...)
The original card I was using was the soundblaster 2.0 ct1350b. I'm going to put the v30 back in and see if Ivan somehow coax the sb16 ct2770 to work again.

njroadfan
September 22nd, 2013, 11:55 AM
Voyetra produced DOS drivers for their MIDI composition software (Voyetra Sequencer Plus Gold (http://www.turtlebeach.com/support/files/315/) free download!) using the SAPI/VAPI interface, but it was designed with OPL3s in mind. It also includes a DOS MID file player. I always felt it has a superior GM patch set to Microsoft's OPL driver.

http://soundshock.se/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=454

commodorejohn
September 22nd, 2013, 12:13 PM
Okay, there's some instrument editors here (http://www.astercity.net/~malf/editors.html) that might be worth looking into. SBTimbre in particular seems like a good bet, as it supports Sound Blaster gameport MIDI directly. It doesn't say whether it will run on an 8086, though, but it doesn't mention 286/386 as a requirement.

evildragon
September 22nd, 2013, 01:19 PM
Okay, there's some instrument editors here (http://www.astercity.net/~malf/editors.html) that might be worth looking into. SBTimbre in particular seems like a good bet, as it supports Sound Blaster gameport MIDI directly. It doesn't say whether it will run on an 8086, though, but it doesn't mention 286/386 as a requirement.

That one worked perfectly! Thanks!!

commodorejohn
September 22nd, 2013, 01:31 PM
Awesome! If you get something good, post some recordings :D

evildragon
September 22nd, 2013, 02:24 PM
I will. :)

I installed an SB16 btw, so I have OPL3 now. This one supports OPL3 too which is cool. Sadly it won't control 4-op mode but that's ok. I don't think any 8086 editor will support 4-op mode. Most apps don't in general.

commodorejohn
September 22nd, 2013, 03:26 PM
Yeah, it is pretty surprisingly underused...but then, very few programs made anything close to the most of even the OPL2's capabilities.

evildragon
September 22nd, 2013, 05:25 PM
Just thought I'd share this nice pic.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1278055_10200701610246720_602715017_o.jpg

This is my setup. I'm legit serious for this, haha.