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falter
December 23rd, 2013, 09:27 PM
Tons of chips came in today from that ebay auction I bought from. 7 or 8 6540s , tons of other PET BASIC version ROMs. Haven't found any 2114 rams for my 4016 yet (there is no other part number for those, right?)

Naturally I've tried a few of the 6540s with my 2001 PET to see if it changes anything. Nothing at all. I am wondering though -- *can* I use a different version of BASIC with this PET? ie. Could I put version 2.0 ROMs in there (I have a complete set). Wondering if I can use that to test and see if other parts of the board are alive. I do have a bunch more 6540s coming so hopefully I'll have a complete set to swap in. But in the meantime, I'd love to try anything else that I can to get this thing to budge a little, or get a sense of what's wrong.

I'll of course be offering these for sale at a reasonably cheap price once I'm sure I have what I need here.. let me know if you have any requests.. I've multiples of some.

164601646116462

MikeS
December 23rd, 2013, 09:43 PM
As long as they're the right type (6540) you can put BASIC 1 (note that there are two versions of one ROM) or BASIC 2 in there (as long as you replace the entire set of course). AFAIK with the right adapters or something like a PETvet you can even put in BASIC 4, although I think there's a slight anomaly with the video.

Yes, there are alternate versions of the 2114 but other than 9114 none of them come to mind without looking it up. But they are a fairly unusal so just pick out all the 18 pin .3" chips and look up any numbers you don't recognize.

Where are you at with the 2001-8? Did you get a PETvet or some 6540<>27xx adapters?

Just how many projects have you going right now? Did you win the lottery?

falter
December 23rd, 2013, 10:50 PM
As long as they're the right type (6540) you can put BASIC 1 (note that there are two versions of one ROM) or BASIC 2 in there (as long as you replace the entire set of course). AFAIK with the right adapters or something like a PETvet you can even put in BASIC 4, although I think there's a slight anomaly with the video.

Yes, there are alternate versions of the 2114 but other than 9114 none of them come to mind without looking it up. But they are a fairly unusal so just pick out all the 18 pin .3" chips and look up any numbers you don't recognize.

Where are you at with the 2001-8? Did you get a PETvet or some 6540<>27xx adapters?

Just how many projects have you going right now? Did you win the lottery?

I have lots of chips that have the same physical look of the 2114.. I'll look the numbers up.

The 2001-8 has two main problems.. The monitor or monitor board appear to be bad (it doesn't work regardless of which PET I connect it to). When I connect the PET 2001-8's mainboard to a working monitor, it's just static random characters. I've swapped four of the 6540s but no change. Once in a while it changes characters or appears to be trying to change select characters on the screen. I don't have the means to actually test the ROMs I have though, and don't yet have all the 6540s I need to do a complete swap. Could be other problems.. still kind of a novice at all this.

I have about 70 machines.. Collected over the years but went on a bit of a rampage the last few months. But just a few have issues. The 2001 has never worked. I assume for a chip to be a type 6540.. It must be labeled 6540, right? I mostly have chips labeled 901xxx.

crock
December 24th, 2013, 12:21 AM
There's several alternatives for the 2114. I have bought these on ebay but be quick: http://www.ebay.com/itm/220933703741

Here's a few documents on zimmers which summerize the 2001 ROM's and which part numbers comprise a complete set.

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/PET-parts.txt
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/pet/README

I have sympathy for your confusion between the 6540-xx and 901xxx-nn labelling. The 6540 is the model number, with the xx being the mask identifier that was used to create it. The ubiquitous xxxxxx-yy numbering scheme is Commodore's internal part number and doesn't only apply to chips - even cases, power supply's, connectors and passive components all have commodore part numbers. Usually chips that are not mask programmed had the model number printed on them eg 6502, 6520 and those that were mask programmed such as ROM's and PLA's got the part number like the 901227-03 (c64 kernal), 906114-01 (64 PLA). Earlier on though, some got either or both, like some 6540's and 6530's (RRIOT chips found in the IEEE drives.)

If you have any chips labelled 901439-xx, they are also 6540's and you can use the documents linked to above to cross reference them.

cheers, Rob

MikeS
December 24th, 2013, 08:22 AM
A comprehensive list of Commodore ROMs:
http://mhv.bplaced.de/cbmroms/cbmroms.php


PET ROMs:



Loc Part # Alt Part # Type No. 48 Func Mem Range Notes
BASIC 1
A2 901439-08 901447-08 6540 010 6540-010 CharGen See 901447-10
H1 901439-01 901447-01 6540 011 6540-011 Basic 1 C000-C7FF
H1 901439-09 901447-09 6540 019 6540-019 Basic 1rC000-C7FF
H5 901439-05 901447-02 6540 012 6540-012 Basic 1 C800-CFFF
H2 901439-02 901447-03 6540 013 6540-013 Basic 1 D000-D7FF
H6 901439-06 901447-04 6540 014 6540-014 Basic 1 D800-DFFF
H3 901439-03 901447-05 6540 015 6540-015 Basic 1 E000-E7FF
H4 901439-04 901447-06 6540 016 6540-016 Basic 1 F000-F7FF
H7 901439-07 901447-07 6540 018 6540-018 Basic 1 F800-FFFF
A2 901447-08 901439-08 2316 008 2316-008 CharGen
H1 901447-01 901439-01 2316 001 2316-001 Basic 1 C000-C7FF
H1 901447-09 901439-09 2316 009 2316-009 Basic 1rC000-C7FF
H5 901447-02 901439-05 2316 002 2316-002 Basic 1 C800-CFFF
H2 901447-03 901439-02 2316 003 2316-003 Basic 1 D000-D7FF
H6 901447-04 901439-06 2316 004 2316-004 Basic 1 D800-DFFF
H3 901447-05 901439-03 2316 005 2316-005 Basic 1 E000-E7FF
H4 901447-06 901439-04 2316 006 2316-006 Basic 1 F000-F7FF
H7 901447-07 901439-07 2316 007 2316-007 Basic 1 F800-FFFF
BASIC 2:
H1 901439-13 901447-20 6540 020 6540-020 Basic 2 C000-C7FF .bix (from 2532)
H5 901439-14 901447-21 6540 021 6540-021 Basic 2 C800-CFFF .bix (from 2532)
H2 901439-15 901447-22 6540 022 6540-022 Basic 2 D000-D7FF .bix (from 2532)
H6 901439-16 901447-23 6540 023 6540-023 Basic 2 D800-DFFF .bix (from 2532)
H3 901439-17 901447-24 6540 024 6540-024 Basic 2 E000-E7FF
H4 901439-18 901447-25 6540 025 6540-025 Basic 2 F000-F7FF .bix (from 2532)
H7 901439-19 901447-26 6540 026 6540-026 Basic 2 F800-FFFF .bix (from 2532)
901447-10 2316 004 2316-004 CharGen
901447-20 901439-13 2316 Basic 2 C000-C7FF
901447-21 901439-14 2316 Basic 2 C800-CFFF
901447-22 901439-15 2316 Basic 2 D000-D7FF
901447-23 901439-16 2316 Basic 2 D800-DFFF
901447-24 901439-17 2316 Basic 2 E000-E7FF
901447-25 901439-18 2316 Basic 2 F000-F7FF
901447-26 901439-19 2316 Basic 2 F800-FFFF
901465-01 901439-13/14 2332 007 2332-007 Basic 2 C000-CFFF
901447-24 901439-17 2316 011 2316-011 Basic 2 E000-E7FF (PET) 901465?
901474-01 2316 024 2316-024 Basic 2 E000-E7FF (CBM)
901465-02 901439-15/16 2332 008 2332-008 Basic 2 D000-DFFF
901465-03 901439-18/19 2332 009 2332-009 Basic 2 F000-FFFF
BASIC 4.0:
901465-19 2332 ??? 2332-??? Basic 4.B000-BFFF See 901465-23
UD10 901465-23 2332 120 2332-120 XXBasic 4.B000-BFFF
UD9 901465-20 2332 059 2332-059 XXBasic 4.C000-CFFF
UD8 901465-21 2332 096 2332-096 XXBasic 4.D000-DFFF
901447-29 2316 034 2316-034 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET)
901474-02 2316 035 2316-035 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM)
UD7 901474-03 2316 041 2316-041 XBasic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM 60Hz)
901474-04 2316 059 2316-059 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM 50Hz)
UD7 901498-01 2316 ??? 2316-??? Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 50Hz)
901499-01 2316 ??? 2316-??? X Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 60Hz)
970150-07 2516 ??? 2516-??? Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 9" 60Hz)
UD6 901465-22 2332 075 2332-075 XXBasic 4.F000-FFFF
UB3 901640-01 2332 221 2332-221 CharGen (SuperPET)

falter
December 24th, 2013, 11:18 AM
A comprehensive list of Commodore ROMs:
http://mhv.bplaced.de/cbmroms/cbmroms.php


PET ROMs:



Wow thanks MikeS! I went googling for that but had no luck. Hmm -- maybe I do have few more 6540s in there than I thought. I think what I am going to do is sort and put them into an Excel spreadsheet, and then I'll be able to know for myself (and others) what I have available).

dave_m
December 24th, 2013, 12:03 PM
A comprehensive list of Commodore ROMs:
http://mhv.bplaced.de/cbmroms/cbmroms.php




UD7 970150-07 2516 ??? 2516-??? Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 9" 60Hz)




Mike,
The device part number for the BASIC 4 Edit ROM to handle a non CRTC 9" screen is listed as a 2516 EPROM rather than a ROM. Zimmer does not have the binary file. I wonder if anyone out there has this configuration of a small screen PET with BASIC 4?
-Dave

falter
December 24th, 2013, 12:07 PM
Mike,
The device part number for the BASIC 4 Edit ROM to handle a non CRTC 9" screen is listed as a 2516 EPROM rather than a ROM. Zimmer does not have the binary file. I wonder if anyone out there has this configuration of a small screen PET with BASIC 4?
-Dave

There is a website I was on (sorry, I can't find the link) where the guy referenced what I believe was a non-CRTC 2001 PET that had been 'upgraded' to BASIC 4. That's what got me wondering some time ago if I could attempt a similar thing on my PET, or if he was mistaken and that 'upgrade' meant simply a newer PET with revised ROMs (as opposed to swapping ROMs in an older one)

MikeS
December 24th, 2013, 07:27 PM
Mike,
The device part number for the BASIC 4 Edit ROM to handle a non CRTC 9" screen is listed as a 2516 EPROM rather than a ROM. Zimmer does not have the binary file. I wonder if anyone out there has this configuration of a small screen PET with BASIC 4?
-DaveI don't have a dynamic RAM 2001N/30xx/40xx so I'm guessing, but I thought BASIC 4 was standard or a 'standard' upgrade for all models except the original 2001-4/8 (it wasn't available in 2K ROMs or 6540s and also had some video issues with the original display system).

AFAIK it consisted of:


All models:

UD10 901465-23 2332 120 2332-120 XXBasic 4.B000-BFFF
UD9 901465-20 2332 059 2332-059 XXBasic 4.C000-CFFF
UD8 901465-21 2332 096 2332-096 XXBasic 4.D000-DFFF
UD6 901465-22 2332 075 2332-075 XXBasic 4.F000-FFFF


UD7:
901447-29 2316 034 2316-034 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET) Non-CRTC Graphic kbd
901474-02 2316 035 2316-035 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM) Non-CRTC Business kbd
901474-03 2316 041 2316-041 XBasic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM 60Hz) 8032 60Hz
901474-04 2316 059 2316-059 Basic 4.E000-E7FF (CBM 50Hz) 8032 50Hz
901498-01 2316 ??? 2316-??? Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 50Hz) Fat40 50Hz
901499-01 2316 ??? 2316-??? X Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 60Hz) Fat40 60Hz

970150-07 2516 ??? 2516-??? Basic 4.E000-E7FF (PET 9" 60Hz) No idea.

Apparently there was a patch to use BASIC4 on the original 2001 but I didn't think it was official with a CBM part number.

Maybe someone else knows for sure?

Also, although I compared some of those numbers with 'real' ROMs there could of course be errors; corrections welcome!

falter
December 24th, 2013, 08:46 PM
I discovered the proper description for what my 2001-8 screen is doing.. it's a raster pattern. On other sites I've visited for other machines.. this appears to happen when the contrast and brightness are stuck at max? I know mine has a brightness control, but I don't think PETs have a contrast control do they?

MikeS
December 25th, 2013, 07:04 AM
I discovered the proper description for what my 2001-8 screen is doing.. it's a raster pattern. On other sites I've visited for other machines.. this appears to happen when the contrast and brightness are stuck at max? I know mine has a brightness control, but I don't think PETs have a contrast control do they?If you mean a light green screen with sloping lines across it, yes, that's a sign of the brightness control being defective, set too high, or a problem in the video or associated circuitry. No, no contrast control per se.

falter
December 25th, 2013, 02:22 PM
If you mean a light green screen with sloping lines across it, yes, that's a sign of the brightness control being defective, set too high, or a problem in the video or associated circuitry. No, no contrast control per se.

There's definitely an issue with the brightness control. If I pull back on it a little and adjust from max to halfway, it dims. The 'raster' doesn't go away or change though -- just gets brighter or dimmer. However, past halfway to the lowest setting, it goes to full on bright no matter what I do. If I push the control over a bit to the left, the screen goes completely dark.

So I'm guessing that's one problem... just not sure what other pieces of circuitry could be involved.

MikeS
December 30th, 2013, 07:50 PM
There's definitely an issue with the brightness control. If I pull back on it a little and adjust from max to halfway, it dims. The 'raster' doesn't go away or change though -- just gets brighter or dimmer. However, past halfway to the lowest setting, it goes to full on bright no matter what I do. If I push the control over a bit to the left, the screen goes completely dark.

So I'm guessing that's one problem... just not sure what other pieces of circuitry could be involved.
Definitely worth repairing; may not be the problem but just might be and it's a good idea to get it out of the way anyway. You should be able to carefully pry open the metal tabs and remove the cover; pull out the shaft, carefully clean the resistive track, put a little extra tension on the wiper and put it back together. Hopefully it'll go smoothly from totally dark to bright with diagonal lines and if you're really lucky you'll see some text in between.

On another topic: after a lively but much too long 'discussion' elsewhere on the forum one of the moderators suggested that I'm a troll who should have been banned long ago, effectively banned me from participating in certain threads and suggested that perhaps I should move elsewhere; made me think about the time I spend on here and I think I'm going to take his hint and make a New Year's resolution to take a break from this forum for a while, maybe checking in once in a while to catch up if I don't indeed get banned completely. Should give me lots of new spare time to finally get some projects finished ;-)

Meanwhile, a very Happy New Year! to all you PETheads, some of the nicest, friendliest and smartest folks I've met on here; I wish you the very best of luck getting and keeping those PETs healthy and well-fed!

Speaking of PETs: when we were moving stuff into the hotel's conference room for the TPUG World of Commodore show a few weeks ago, the receptionist gave us a quizzical look every time we passed by; when someone finally asked her why, she admitted that she was wondering just exactly how the Toronto Pet User's Group "used" those pets of theirs...

Again, have a GREAT 2014!!!

mike

tezza
December 31st, 2013, 11:18 AM
On another topic: after a lively but much too long 'discussion' elsewhere on the forum one of the moderators suggested that I'm a troll who should have been banned long ago, effectively banned me from participating in certain threads and suggested that perhaps I should move elsewhere; made me think about the time I spend on here and I think I'm going to take his hint and make a New Year's resolution to take a break from this forum for a while, maybe checking in once in a while to catch up if I don't indeed get banned completely. Should give me lots of new spare time to finally get some projects finished ;-)

It's good to take a break from these things now and again. I've had lots of non-computer projects going on in my life this year hence haven't been that active myself.

Sorry to hear about the "troll" label. Must be because you are prickly and curmudgeonly sometimes :) . However, the evidence is there in this forum of someone who is helpful and very willing to assist people with problems. I've been the beneficiary of that many times.

The forum will be poorer without your presence Mike.

All the best for 2014

Tez

Chuck(G)
December 31st, 2013, 12:15 PM
Definitely worth repairing; may not be the problem but just might be and it's a good idea to get it out of the way anyway. You should be able to carefully pry open the metal tabs and remove the cover; pull out the shaft, carefully clean the resistive track, put a little extra tension on the wiper and put it back together. Hopefully it'll go smoothly from totally dark to bright with diagonal lines and if you're really lucky you'll see some text in between.

Easier is to get an aerosol can of contact cleaner (you can probably find it at a big-box store in the automotive supplies section) with the little red tube than can be attached to the nozzle. Just slip the tube into the area where the terminals meet the case, spray the dickens out of it to get some cleaner into the control and rotate the control fully to distribute it.

Usually does the trick and takes only minutes.

Caluser2000
December 31st, 2013, 01:36 PM
It's good to take a break from these things now and again. I've had lots of non-computer projects going on in my life this year hence haven't been that active myself.

Sorry to hear about the "troll" label. Must be because you are prickly and curmudgeonly sometimes :) . However, the evidence is there in this forum of someone who is helpful and very willing to assist people with problems. I've been the beneficiary of that many times.

The forum will be poorer without your presence Mike.

All the best for 2014

TezDitto with what he said. I Just saw the thread in question as two geeks being a bit precious ;)

Pet Rescue
December 31st, 2013, 01:37 PM
On another topic: after a lively but much too long 'discussion' elsewhere on the forum one of the moderators suggested that I'm a troll who should have been banned long ago, effectively banned me from participating in certain threads and suggested that perhaps I should move elsewhere; made me think about the time I spend on here and I think I'm going to take his hint and make a New Year's resolution to take a break from this forum for a while, maybe checking in once in a while to catch up if I don't indeed get banned completely. Should give me lots of new spare time to finally get some projects finished ;-)

Meanwhile, a very Happy New Year! to all you PETheads, some of the nicest, friendliest and smartest folks I've met on here; I wish you the very best of luck getting and keeping those PETs healthy and well-fed!

Speaking of PETs: when we were moving stuff into the hotel's conference room for the TPUG World of Commodore show a few weeks ago, the receptionist gave us a quizzical look every time we passed by; when someone finally asked her why, she admitted that she was wondering just exactly how the Toronto Pet User's Group "used" those pets of theirs...

Again, have a GREAT 2014!!!

mike

Wishing you a very Happy New Year!!

Don't stay away too long I may have to pick your brains!! (Panic setting in at the thought of my next project!!)

On a serious note I have found you nothing but helpful in my time on this forum and don't understand the "troll" label either.
You and dave are very knowledgeable to us pet heads and you would be a huge loss to the forum and it would not be the same
to not read your many posts with dave.

falter
December 31st, 2013, 02:32 PM
Thanks MikeS!

I don't know where the 'troll' thing comes from but you've been most helpful to me.

I gave my best run at the brightness knob.. took it apart, cleaned it (was a bunch of black stuff on the little black ring on the inside of the body). Put it back together. If I turn the dial all the way clockwise, no picture. If I progressively turn counterclockwise, the raster pattern appears and gets brighter and brighter. At halfway on the dial, it is at full brightness. If I go over that, the screen goes dark completely. No graphics or anything though.. just the raster. I'm a bit nervous about taking the video board out (I don't see any proper procedures posted anywhere and the voltage involved with the CRT kind of scares me).

When I first connected everything back up, the raster pattern was wavy and bouncing up and down.. but it appears to have stabilized now.

falter
December 31st, 2013, 02:57 PM
This is a video of it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Rkwu858zA

When it goes blank, that's when I've reached the halfway point on the dial.

EDIT: I solved the flickering issue -- one of the pins that connected to the monitor board for the brightness control was loose. I resoldered it (very awkwardly) and it is solid now. Brightness works nice and smooth. Still cuts out if you turn the dial too far.

Unfortunately that didn't solve the raster problem. I'm open to ideas. :)

MikeS
February 2nd, 2014, 07:57 AM
Brightness works nice and smooth. Still cuts out if you turn the dial too far.

Unfortunately that didn't solve the raster problem. I'm open to ideas. :)Hi gang. First of all, thanks for the kind words; much appreciated. Tried to stay away but couldn't resist several PM's luring me back; harder habit to kick than smoking ;-)

@Brad: how about a quick summary of what you're playing with and what the problems are. I think you've got at least 3 PETs, a 3016, an 8032 and a SuperPET, but only the SPET is working; have I got that right?

falter
February 2nd, 2014, 10:05 AM
I have 5 PETs now. 3 are fully functional. The 2001-8 I now have the mainboard working just fine, but the screen is still not working. I suspect caps.. I noticed some rust atop the biggest one and after accidentally bumping it was reduced from a full screen of trace lines to one horizontal line in the center of the screen. I know for sure there are no motherboard issues with that computer as it works fine when connected to another screen. I'm only held back on fixing it because I'm afraid of the voltages involved. And finding the proper caps, which I suspect should be replaced as a matter of course.

The other problem pet is a CBM 8032 I got for next to nothing. It chirps, but that's it. No screen, and there's no indication the system is actually doing anything -- if I hold the space bar down it should chirp but doesn't, and I've tried the print chr$(7) trick to no avail. I suspect probably the CRTC is right at the heart of it. I'm acquiring tools to try and figure that one out.

jess74
September 10th, 2015, 09:23 AM
Any 901447-29 left for sale?

falter
September 10th, 2015, 11:22 AM
Any 901447-29 left for sale?

I checked my inventory list (I'm not at home for a week or so), and it says I have 11 901447s. I'm sure a 29 is in there somewhere. PM me your info and when I get back I'll see what I have for sure.

jess74
September 16th, 2015, 09:28 AM
Any luck finding the 901447-29 ?

falter
September 26th, 2015, 05:16 PM
Any luck finding the 901447-29 ?

Regrettably no. I got back last week, but I did look through the pile and all I have are -10s, -23s and a bunch of -24s. No -29s unfortunately.

e5frog
December 28th, 2015, 06:08 PM
Hello there, got myself a 2001-8C and have cleaned it up nicely and started checking all socketed chips. Turns out, after making an adapter for my Willem eprom programmer, that the 6540-013 (901439-02) is flakey and comes up with random errors when reading it. All the others including the char rom works fine.

Problem was that I got a garbage screen for about a second then screen went blank, if removing the char rom I got random empty and filled chars and then a screen completely filled with filled chars. That's why I started checking the roms.

Any chance there's a working 6540-013 to be found anywhere?
I can make an adapter but it would be nice to keep it original if possible.