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falter
January 2nd, 2014, 08:21 PM
Hey guys,

Got my Challenger 1P today. Pretty nifty. I've made a video of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBshkT__5bA

Mind my lousy commentary.. still getting used to the YouTube thing.

interestingly, my Challenger doesn't do the screen garbage thing at startup. it comes instantly to the usual prompt.. and I mean instantly. There's no gradual fade in of the screen like my Commodores. I don't see any evidence there was ever a Challenger badge on it.. no glue residue, difference in paint. Wondering if it could be a 600 kit built up to Challenger specs?

Frank S
January 2nd, 2014, 11:06 PM
Hello Falter,
it looks good. The board seems to be original, without modifications.
The board is the newer revision with the color option.
Which type is the floppy drive? Do you get OS disks with it?
Frank

tezza
January 3rd, 2014, 12:36 AM
Great!

Yes, I would say that was from OS because the case is exactly the same colours as my 1P (which does have a badge). I think I have some of those mystery screws in mine too.

Strange that you don't have to press break? I wonder if the later ones had a slightly different ROM where that action is not required.

My 1P is just the single board and cassette based. Interesting to see the disk controller and extra memory board snuggled in there under the main one.

I like these Challengers for the same reason you do...they represent that bare metal, hobbyist stage of computing before custom chips and attractive aesthetics.

Tez

Frank S
January 3rd, 2014, 07:56 AM
Strange that you don't have to press break? I wonder if the later ones had a slightly different ROM where that action is not required.
In Rev.C and Rev.D there is a complete new reset circuit, consists out of two OP-AMPs (LM393 (U80)).
After powering on these newer versions C and D boards, this circuit resets the 6502.
Frank

tezza
January 3rd, 2014, 08:36 AM
In Rev.C and Rev.D there is a complete new reset circuit, consists out of two OP-AMPs (LM393 (U80)).
After powering on these newer versions C and D boards, this circuit resets the 6502.
Frank

That explains it. Thanks Frank.

Tez

falter
January 3rd, 2014, 09:27 AM
Hello Falter,
it looks good. The board seems to be original, without modifications.
The board is the newer revision with the color option.
Which type is the floppy drive? Do you get OS disks with it?
Frank

I pulled off the lid on the drive, there is a sticker:

MPIO
Micro Peripherals Inc.
Model 51
Mfg: 22 Sep 1982

Didn't come with any disks, unfortunately.

Frank S
January 3rd, 2014, 09:38 AM
Important is that the MPI-51 drive had the data separator modul.
This little PCB is plugged in near the front of the drive.
Do you get the flat cable with it?
Frank

falter
January 3rd, 2014, 09:56 AM
Important is that the MPI-51 drive had the data separator modul.
This little PCB is plugged in near the front of the drive.
Do you get the flat cable with it?
Frank

Yes.. a long blue cable. I'm not sure though which way to connect it to the drive. The drive's connector has a little notch, but the cable doesn't. And pin 1 is not very clearly indicated, unless it is the last blue colored wire on the right if colored side up (back side of cable is all same color).

Frank S
January 3rd, 2014, 10:02 AM
Please make some detailed pictures from the interface board, that is plugged on the 610 board.
Frank

falter
January 3rd, 2014, 12:27 PM
Please make some detailed pictures from the interface board, that is plugged on the 610 board.
Frank

Here's some pics -- I discovered an arrow on the connector head that I assume is Pin 1. On the component side of the floppy board, there is a pin to the extreme left that appears to be marked 2. Thanks to the manual Tezza provided some time ago, I was able to determine that the odd sided pins are on the solder side, so I'm assuming 1 is directly underneath 2.

I just wish I had a way to do some disk formatting and basic commands to see if it works.

1667716678

tezza
January 3rd, 2014, 01:10 PM
Be careful that you've got the cable around the right way. I recall reading somewhere that plugging it in upside down in these Challengers does cause damage, either on the drive or disk controller.

Tez

falter
January 4th, 2014, 08:26 AM
I did my best to read the docs and check the pins where the cable connects at both ends. Near as i can tell, I've got it. You can't do disk operations from BASIC can you like Commodore? Does that require the OS65 ?

Also.. dumb question.. what is the delete key? I did some programming yesterday for fun, but when I made a mistake I couldn't find a key to go back. Rub out doesn't work. Looking thru the manuals online but haven't found it yet.

tezza
January 4th, 2014, 11:09 AM
I did my best to read the docs and check the pins where the cable connects at both ends. Near as i can tell, I've got it. You can't do disk operations from BASIC can you like Commodore? Does that require the OS65 ?

Also.. dumb question.. what is the delete key? I did some programming yesterday for fun, but when I made a mistake I couldn't find a key to go back. Rub out doesn't work. Looking thru the manuals online but haven't found it yet.

I've got no experience with the DOS, but I think it does require the OS65 to be loaded off the disk before you can perform any disk functions.

Re: the delete key. That is not a dumb question at all. I spent a while trying to figure this out myself. My CP4 is upside down in pieces and my C1P is packed away so I can't test it but from memory you use Control/O. However, this doesn't look like it's worked. It puts a "_" on the screen. However when you press enter and relist the line, this has actually deleted the character to the left of the cursor at the time. I think Rubout might do the same thing?

Test it out and see if I am right.

IMO the lack of a proper backspace is a huge deficiency in these machines and must have caused grief if you were programming. I think you could get third party ROMS for the machine which gave you much better editing capabilities.

Tez

falter
January 4th, 2014, 02:27 PM
I've got no experience with the DOS, but I think it does require the OS65 to be loaded off the disk before you can perform any disk functions.

Re: the delete key. That is not a dumb question at all. I spent a while trying to figure this out myself. My CP4 is upside down in pieces and my C1P is packed away so I can't test it but from memory you use Control/O. However, this doesn't look like it's worked. It puts a "_" on the screen. However when you press enter and relist the line, this has actually deleted the character to the left of the cursor at the time. I think Rubout might do the same thing?

Test it out and see if I am right.

IMO the lack of a proper backspace is a huge deficiency in these machines and must have caused grief if you were programming. I think you could get third party ROMS for the machine which gave you much better editing capabilities.

Tez

Thanks Tez -- yeah, I figured as much re: the OS. I've seen disk images posted around for the emulators they have... I wonder if there's a straightforward way to reverse and send an image back to my machine.

I tried Rubout but it doesn't appear to do anything. Bizarre! CTRL-O doesn't seem to do it either.

falter
January 4th, 2014, 02:29 PM
Ah.. it's Shift-O. And yes, it produces an underscore... but when you re-list the line, it's corrected. Yikes! Well, I better not make any programming mistakes!

tezza
January 4th, 2014, 07:31 PM
Ah.. it's Shift-O. And yes, it produces an underscore... but when you re-list the line, it's corrected. Yikes! Well, I better not make any programming mistakes!

Ah, my memory was 1/2 right.

Tez