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Qbus
January 8th, 2014, 05:01 PM
I am driven by crazy ideas that have that poor justification at best but one of the ideas that have been big around the house the last year is to obtain and start using a primitive prom programmer. Last summer I saw a Pro Log Prom programmer at a Ham Fest but the person right in front of me ended up buying it, think it was the oldest version built around the 4004 CPU and only had one adapter with it that was for a sixteen pin chip, but something about the look of it appealed to me so there you go. I ended up bidding on a couple that were on EBay and after winning the last auction am now the proud owner of a M980 that also has the PM9080 personality module with a PA28-80 24/28 dual socket adapter along with an M 304 communications adapter and after downloading all the relevant manuals think I now have a mid eighties state of the art programmer. Have learned how to read, edit and write to 2716, 2732, 2764 and the ever popular 27128 but ran in to one problem being that the M9080 dose not appear to support the 2708, next to the 2716 that was the chip I was looking to stomping around in the most. So at this point imagine I will have to be looking for one of the earlier personality adapters to work with the 2708 or if anyone has any experience here maybe they can give me an idea of how to work with the 2708 with the M9080 personality adapter.

Qbus AKA Ray F

Crawford
January 9th, 2014, 04:52 PM
Ray,

I can't help you with your immediate need, but would you please please bring the pro log to the vintage get together in Baltimore on February 16?

-Crawford

Dwight Elvey
January 9th, 2014, 09:19 PM
There is a significant difference in how 2716 and later are programmed
compare to a 2708.
The 2716 and on have a static programming voltage and a ttl level to
control programming.
The 2708 must have a switch on the programming voltage as it
goes high for each bit then must be returned in order to change address
and data.
The 2708 also need -5V @ 45ma and +12V @ 65ma.
It would almost be better to build a programmer from scratch
than to try to make an adapter.
Dwight

Qbus
January 10th, 2014, 01:26 PM
I will drag it out for everyone to see in February. Right now its not on the top of my list of favorite things being while I was trying to kluge together a serial cable for that system I some how managed to destroy my Grid 1550 laptop that I was using for a terminal, know I should be using something like a stupid Dell or HP being have tons of the newer junk around but for some reason did not have anything newer around so had the Grid running the stupid communications program in Windows and something happened that killed the Grid. Don’t know yet but it’s not the power supplies or drives or anything simple in the Grid so going to assume that I toasted the uart in the serial port. Will have to go dig around the garage and see if I can find another mother board and also drag a Dell in with a flat panel and set that up as a system that if weird voltages are dumped in via the ports so what.

Al Kossow
January 11th, 2014, 07:16 AM
It would almost be better to build a programmer from scratch
than to try to make an adapter.
Dwight

Or find a DataIO with the right Unipak to handle 2708's

I added a bunch of Pro-Log catalogs and documentation for the Series 90 to bitsavers yesterday.
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/pro-log

Martin Eberhard made a new programmer for the 1702A called the ME1702A which I bought to handle
archiving them from computers in the CHM collection.

dave_m
January 11th, 2014, 08:39 AM
Or find a DataIO with the right Unipak to handle 2708's



Any Data I/O Model 29B with a Unipak2B of Rev 7 or better can handle any brand of 2708 and also the Intel 2704. Almost any Unipak you find will be at least Rev 7. The last Rev is 27. The Model 29B can NOT program the Intel 1702.

Dwight Elvey
January 11th, 2014, 05:23 PM
---snip---
Martin Eberhard made a new programmer for the 1702A called the ME1702A which I bought to handle
archiving them from computers in the CHM collection.

I used my SIM4-01 for the same at the DigiBarn for Bruce. It is mentioned on his
site with some pictures.
I also have a card, that I think is from a MOD4 or MOD40 machine.
It is a 1702A programmer card. I'd always thought it might be a good
idea to connect it to one of my SBCs to work as a backup, in case one
of the 1702As on the SIM4-01 should go blank and my backup EPROMs
fail as well.
I have a working DataIO as well but I often do 2708s on my ByteBlaster
card on my IMSAI. It always takes me a while to figure out the serial
communications for the DataIO. Most all the other EPROMs I do with
a EMP10.
I do wish I could find the schematic for the 8748 and the 8751.
I do have some projects that I could use these with.
Dwight

Qbus
January 27th, 2014, 06:00 AM
Think I have resolved all the issues with my Pro Log 980 and its communications port to the extent that I now have working cables and a terminal connected to it but still have a couple questions if anyone out there may have answers. First the baud rate selector appears to be a mystery allowing the UART a 6402 to operate between 110 and 9600 baud, going to assume that 0 the slowest clock speed is 110 baud but won’t swear to it. So far the manual is somehow lacking a chart that tells what setting is what baud rate, and being that the system won’t echo back commands there has been a lot of trial and error.
Using a logic analyzer connected to the UART can see the clock, incoming data and data being pushed out the parallel port to the system but not getting much or any love from the system. And this brings up the second question, just how do you use the serial port? Have read thru the user manual and it’s not very clear on just what and how you do things. Looks like the serial port directly addresses memory in the buffer and that some set of codes is used to preference operations. Somehow thought there would be a simple way to download the contents of the buffer and maybe upload a new image into the buffer but looks like talking to this thing is more along the lines of pushing and pulling data in machine language then working with the internal keypad and display on the system. Have a suspicion that the serial port directly addresses the MPU and buffer at a microcode level. If anyone has experience working one of these systems using the serial port please try to give me an idea of what’s going on here, the worst thing now is that I will have to go back and read the manual again.

Qbus

Qbus
January 27th, 2014, 06:01 AM
Think I have resolved all the issues with my Pro Log 980 and its communications port to the extent that I now have working cables and a terminal connected to it but still have a couple questions if anyone out there may have answers. First the baud rate selector appears to be a mystery allowing the UART a 6402 to operate between 110 and 9600 baud, going to assume that 0 the slowest clock speed is 110 baud but won’t swear to it. So far the manual is somehow lacking a chart that tells what setting is what baud rate, and being that the system won’t echo back commands there has been a lot of trial and error.
Using a logic analyzer connected to the UART can see the clock, incoming data and data being pushed out the parallel port to the system but not getting much or any love from the system. And this brings up the second question, just how do you use the serial port? Have read thru the user manual and it’s not very clear on just what and how you do things. Looks like the serial port directly addresses memory in the buffer and that some set of codes is used to preference operations. Somehow thought there would be a simple way to download the contents of the buffer and maybe upload a new image into the buffer but looks like talking to this thing is more along the lines of pushing and pulling data in machine language then working with the internal keypad and display on the system. Have a suspicion that the serial port directly addresses the MPU and buffer at a microcode level. If anyone has experience working one of these systems using the serial port please try to give me an idea of what’s going on here, the worst thing now is that I will have to go back and read the manual again.

Qbus
March 10th, 2014, 05:41 PM
Success! I have just copied my first batch of 2716. Now just looking around the shop for other things to copy. After several download and much reading I can now examine, copy and edit. Too bad that I can do almost every obsolete prom except the 2708 so figure will be on the lookout for that personality section for the programmer. In the what sometimes appeared to be a never ending battle with the prolog I required a UV eraser and the one I bought came with a International Microsystems EPROM-1 programmer including the manual, disks and power supply and I wanted to keep that in case I did not get all the issues with the Prolog resolved so now going to list that over in the equipment sale aria but if anyone who has been following this mess wants it they can contact me and have it for $25 plus shipping, its too new and small for me.