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falter
January 12th, 2014, 10:24 PM
http://m.ebay.com/itm/161195771909?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

I'm confused on this one. Its a plus, but it has a late A2 serial number? Upgraded Ii maybe?

Corey986
January 13th, 2014, 02:45 AM
Well easy enough...

It's started life as a late Apple II rev 7. The only model of Apple II (not plus) without jumper blocks of any kind. The motherboard date is consistent with it being original to the base plate serial number.

At some point it was upgraded to a II plus with a rom swap and the badge was changed.

The power supply failed at some point and was replaced with a newer supply with a much higher serial number and the keyboard failed at some point and it was replaced since from the pics I don't see the datanetics stiffener. Thigh it's unclear if some rev-7 Apple II shipped with a non-datanetics, pre-rfi keyboard.

So what's the machine worth???

Well it is an Apple II rev 7, just not all original and it would need a correct nameplate on the cover they can be had for about 50-100 bucks and a set of roms with a rom card could be had for $100-300. The keyboard as I said is a question. But the power supply, a common replacement item, is certainly not original. So his buy it now while it seems high may not be with a machine in that condition. If you could get the badge and Rom card with integer ROMs on the low side, then for about 30 minutes work you have a machine in good condition and about as original as an Apple II for under 1k tends to get and in good condition cosmetically. Apple II can range in price not only how early they are, but how clean and original. This one has the normal stuff that would have happened to a machine that was used. A II plus upgrade to the system was not unheard of and the same for the parts that aren't original. Just expect to pay a heck of a lot more for an all original system that is clean.

To put it in car terms. The chassis is right, it's been badged wrong, the engine is original but the carburetor has been upgraded. The transmission numbers don't match. And we aren't sure if the interior might be in a color that wasn't offered till the next year, but we don't know for sure. But it looks clean.

Cheers,
Corey

falter
January 13th, 2014, 08:05 AM
Thanks Corey.

What I'm confused about is -- there's this actual II+ here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-II-Plus-with-1978-revision1-motherboard-original-box-/231132032528

So if I understand right -- there was a period where II and II+ were produced concurrently? So the II+ in my link here might have been built before the II in the previous link, thus explaining why the II+ above has a Rev 4 (I think) board and the one I posted last night has a Rev 7?

Corey986
January 13th, 2014, 08:50 AM
Yes, that's an early II plus over a year plus older than that II. Not early enough to have a "raised" power indicator, but it is very early. It's really not Rev1, it's a rev3 or 4 Apple II board, which the first or second Rev for the II plus... I can't tell from the pics on my iPhone, I'd have to look at the pics on a bigger screen to see if the memory blocks are soldered in or socketed.

falter
January 13th, 2014, 09:00 AM
Yes, that's an early II plus over a year plus older than that II. Not early enough to have a "raised" power indicator, but it is very early. It's really not Rev1, it's a rev3 or 4 Apple II board, which the first or second Rev for the II plus... I can't tell from the pics on my iPhone, I'd have to look at the pics on a bigger screen to see if the memory blocks are soldered in or socketed.

Great, thanks. I can't make it out from my desktop... but maybe I'm not doing something right or the pictures aren't clear.

I wonder why they elected to sell both concurrently like that?

david__schmidt
January 13th, 2014, 01:18 PM
I wonder why they elected to sell both concurrently like that?
Small company. Wanted to deplete older stock. Demand for both models. Could be any or all...

SomeGuy
January 13th, 2014, 01:51 PM
I had always figured it was for software compatiblity. Users needing compatiblity with integer basic may have preferred to get a plain ][ without having to spend more for the 16k ram card or or a ROM language card.

But also keep in mind who made AppleSoft basic - Microsoft. Or more importantly, from Apple's perspective: "Not Invented Here".

So to them it probably made sense to keep both lines going, to give them flexibility, until customers finally only wanted the ][+ with AppleSoft basic.

falter
January 13th, 2014, 03:38 PM
I'm very tempted to grab that early II+. But I'm afraid I'd be too tempted to steal the Rev 04 out of it, swap the 0044-D board in my existing II+ out, and let that be that. And then my old II+ would become the home of that 'DIY' Apple II board I got.

I'm just getting really impatient to get a board into the II case I have. :) It would mean taking apart and original II+, but all the parts would be living in the same home of course. :)

HoJoPo
January 13th, 2014, 09:25 PM
][ pluses are fairly common, the early ones show up more regularly than A2S1 systems. So go for it, and don't worry about the ][ plus.

mwillegal
January 14th, 2014, 10:04 AM
Some usefull monitor functions were lost with the advent of Applesoft such as the mini-assembler, trace capability and Applesoft is much slower than Integer BASIC. In some circles, the Apple IIplus, was refered to as the Apple IIminus. For hardware hacking purposes, unless I need floating point BASIC, I vastly prefer the original monitor with miniassembler, Integer basic and the programmers AID prom. The Autostart monitor can be a hinderance when you are doing hardware development and resetting the system a lot.

regards,
Mike W.