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ziloo
August 18th, 2006, 02:28 PM
Now that we are done with the global warming issue, I like to ask
our VC comrades to present their own theory about something we have
all seen in every other Hollywood movie that has a computer and a
computer nerd in it.

The good guy is sitting behind the computer (notebook, laptop,
desktop doesn't matter) and the bad guy has either put a virus on
the computer or sends some kind of a nasty command through the net,
and all of a sudden something zapppps inside the computer and then
you see huge bluish electric sparks jumping out of the computer and
electrocuting everybody and everything in the vicinity. How many
thousands of volts do you need to make a spark that long that even
makes Tesla's hair stand on his skull? And then the computer just
blows up into pieces!!!

There are just so many dumb cliche scenes about computers (and
pseudo-science in general) on the silver screen.....

dongfeng
August 18th, 2006, 04:15 PM
It's always so amusing to watch Hollywood's computer destruction as it is always so visual! I guess a blue screen isn't so exciting :)

atari2600a
August 18th, 2006, 04:47 PM
Lets not forget, today's powerful mainframes can also understand casual Enlish, & the really powerful mainframes simulate the sound of a dot-matrix printer! :p

Plus, an LCD screen is so bright that it can project the image right onto your face!

DimensionDude
August 18th, 2006, 07:54 PM
My favorite is the "noisy" monitors. You know the kind, every time a character appears on the screen it makes a sound like a teletype.

Hmm...the only example I can think of offhand is "Max Headroom." Showing my age, eh?

Kent

bbcmicro
August 19th, 2006, 04:28 AM
I always wondered what was up with that, typing would drive you potty.

Another thing, when a computer starts up, it goes bweeEEE, and when it shuts down, it goes BWOoooo.

And there are always completely useless lights all over everything. And pretty graphs on the display that illustrate nothing, NOTHING!

ziloo
August 19th, 2006, 08:24 AM
My favorite is the "noisy" monitors
One early notable example was the movie "Alien" where the monitor
makes a very loud teletype sound :lol:.


And there are always completely useless lights all over everything

In the same Alien movie you see the Mother computer as a white
room with blinking lights all over the walls :idea: :idea: :idea:!


And pretty graphs on the display that illustrate nothing,...

I like this scene in the movie where one of the crew (Ripley) is
looking at the monitor and there is row after row of 1's and 0's
scrolling down at fast pace, and she is analyzing the output :wow:.

By the way "Alien" is one of my all time favorites. If you haven't
seen it for a while, check it out.

Does anybody remember those sci-fi movies of the sixties with
gigantic mainframes in the background and their magnetic storage
reels that were continuously rotating forward and backward and sometimes out of sync :biggrin:!

dongfeng
August 19th, 2006, 08:39 AM
How about the movie "Hackers"? Everyone knows that your data is kept in a hugely visual 3D "city" :D

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9821/data20bt.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9316/fichiercorbeille2ia.jpg

bbcmicro
August 19th, 2006, 09:28 AM
Oh, and we always have a spinning wireframe animation of the main article of the film!

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 10:30 AM
I think audiences just enjoy seeing things blow up, mit spitzensparken, etc. Has anyone ever seen a car crash in a movie where the car doesn't explode inna huge fireball? How often does that happen in real life (not counting '76 Pintos & vintage Chevy pick-ups)?

--T

bbcmicro
August 19th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Films also bend logic when it comes to violence.
not meaning to be macabre here, but a well aimed puch could kill someone. However, if hollywood were to be believed, we could get hit multiple times in the face, stomach, legs, arms, and assaulted with pipes, bars, etc. etc. for the length of an entire fight scene, only to walk away after defeating a myriad of foes.You wouldn't even crawl away. I don't really agree with this, because in this instance it is dangerous. It gives people the idea that humans are pretty hard to kill, when they're not. Just as well this is in the rants forum!

USSEnterprise
August 19th, 2006, 11:31 AM
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~mbanda/hal/hal.jpg

ziloo
August 19th, 2006, 11:43 AM
Alright Enterprise, so you are saying that you don't believe in AI ever
getting there. I followed AI for a while, but I realized that Artificial
Intelligence is just too Artificial !

USSEnterprise
August 19th, 2006, 12:41 PM
Alright Enterprise, so you are saying that you don't believe in AI ever
getting there. I followed AI for a while, but I realized that Artificial
Intelligence is just too Artificial !

No, I believe it will eventually happen, provided all AI devices are bound by the three laws. I don't think AI will ever maliciously kill someone, unless something goes very wrong.

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Oh yeah, and how 'bout when somebody gets shot, and they go flying thru the air for 10 or 12 feet? I mean, I've never shot a man, or even seen someone shot, but I have dropped large game with both shotgun and HP rifle, and they never fly thru the air...

--T

atari2600a
August 19th, 2006, 01:21 PM
No, I believe it will eventually happen, provided all AI devices are bound by the three laws. I don't think AI will ever maliciously kill someone, unless something goes very wrong.

...Until they evolve & destroy all humans!

USSEnterprise
August 19th, 2006, 01:43 PM
...Until they evolve & destroy all humans!

I'm serious. If there ever are intelligent robots/computers, they should be bound by Asimov's three laws.

bbcmicro
August 19th, 2006, 01:57 PM
What if they become intelligent enough to develop Asimov's zeroth law? Long term, I suppose its a plus, however, if you were an evil genius your robot may pop you clogs!

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 05:02 PM
The zero law haz it's problems too. An AI system could conclude that sacrificing 600.000,000 humanz (200,000,000 Americanz, and an equal number of Chineze & Russianz) to nuclear warfare could save the other 5-billion people on the planet...

--T

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Alright Enterprise, so you are saying that you don't believe in AI ever
getting there. I followed AI for a while, but I realized that Artificial
Intelligence is just too Artificial !

...and not very intelligent either,


If I hadda write daLawz the first would be sum'n like: 'Artificial Intelligence shall never excede the intelligence of it's creator'.'

--T

Mad-Mike
August 19th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Only i a movie/tv show/music video/yougetthepoint....yes, I know some of these have not happened, but you get the point.

- can an IBM PC 5150 display Alf in high resolution true color with smooth scrolling and digitized sound on a 12" MONOCHROME screen with low Dot-Pitch.
(see this youtube link for this) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqiiYA7tYAk.

- can the mainframe talk to people, and has a need for 32 pointless LED lights.

- popular fast food restaraunts have computers in them to look up internet sites

- a computer can take on the form of a 12-16 year old girl and bake cookies and rip the door handle off an 80's Ford Taurus with ease.

- does an Atari 2600 look like a Super Nintendo, sound like a Colecovision, and has a Jak's Pacific Arcade joystick and a Sega Genesis gamepad for controllers, and has the capability of having Mario make a cameo appearance in the game via the soundtrack.

- a rich preppy kid owns a basic model IBM PC Jr., yet we never seem him actually USE it for something.

- someone's home computer gets a personality from having wine spilled on the keyboard, just to fall in love with the cello player downstairs.

- does a governement owned computer not have 3 gazillion security interlocks and protection features, sounds like it was named by Burger King, and is being hacked by a teenager with an 8-bit hobbyist computer that probably cost more than his parents could afford to build anyway.

- does an E-mail program use size 48pt font, an arrow as big as the mouse moving it, and has the ability to take your picture from the monitor.

- a computer dances and sings a song about becoming obsolete to a toaster, a microwave oven, a vaccum cleaner, a dishwasher, a lamp, a radio, and a television that displays in brown and white.

- one person can make an entire neighborhood go black just by plugging in their parallel cable backward.

- does this mean anything? "I recentrilized the neutral-wave software port to the desktop redirector, and then it crashed, so I hit CTRL+SPACEBAR+DEL, CTRL+F, and then it rebooted the network distiller to allow me access to the internet and the corporate intranet via the ultra neuberwave generator"

The misconceptions hollywood has about computers, and apparently still has, shocks me to no end.

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 09:29 PM
Ultra nuberwave generator? ROFL! Soundz kinda like the ol' 'Nth Complexity Infinite Binary Loop'...(Just what is the Nth degree of infinity anywayz?).

--T

Terry Yager
August 19th, 2006, 09:40 PM
And, of course, a 12-year-old can re-task a gov't killer satelite using only a standard, unexpanded GameBoy!

--T

Mad-Mike
August 19th, 2006, 09:59 PM
And then of course there's Ghostbusters II, with a bunch of "Paranormal Specialists" manning the Statue of Liberty with a huge coat of Pepto Bismol and a NES Advantage joyrstick.

USSEnterprise
August 20th, 2006, 09:31 AM
Lets not forget Terminator II, where a kid is able to hack an ATM machine with an Atari Portfolio.

bbcmicro
August 31st, 2006, 03:10 PM
The topic of artificial intelligence used to worry me. However, I need only remember one thing to help ease my worries about future robot domination.

Eliza.

Don't you feel so much better? ;)

ziloo
September 1st, 2006, 04:53 AM
Thank you BBC. I did n't know about Eliza, the cybershrink. After
five minutes of exchanging prose..., my goodness...I am cured :biggrin:!

bbcmicro
September 1st, 2006, 05:08 AM
I discovered something about eliza. If you copy exactly her last reply, she becomes very confused!

sbrown
September 1st, 2006, 05:19 PM
This, as i have had the bad luck to find out, applies to some humans as well.

Reminds me of the Barnum (?) quote about fooling people.

ziloo
September 3rd, 2006, 05:40 AM
Very recently, I watched the movie "Red Planet". If anybody has not
seen the movie, it is the story of visitors from earth that their
expedition ship crashes on Mars, and ... . I just couldn't figure out
what happened to AMEE the dog/robot of the spaceship that, upon setting
foot on mars, simply freeked out and started developing a taste for human's
internal organs. Maybe the crash landing had seriously damaged its
hard drive, or solar flares had corrupted its eproms, or it was simply
looking for alternative food supply to recharge its batteries. Can you
imagine spending millions of dollars developing AI programs for a dog robot,
and the first thing that it does is to bite you in your assets!? I was
amazed at those martial-art moves AMEE was doing (NASA has established
that all robotic automatons must have Kung-Fu proficiency in defence and
offence).

But it is scary that we are all sitting here thinking that the two Mars rovers,
Spirit and Opportunity, are just obeying orders and continue on their
marathon search of the silent planet, while by now, they might have both
been turned into merciless murderers developing sophisticated algorithms
on how to deal with future visitors from earth! Aren't you a bit
suspicious that two robots, that were expected to last only 3 months,
have been fooling around the planet for more than two years.....oh my!!

:biggrin:

TandyMan100
January 16th, 2009, 08:44 AM
I always wondered what was up with that, typing would drive you potty.

Another thing, when a computer starts up, it goes bweeEEE, and when it shuts down, it goes BWOoooo.

And there are always completely useless lights all over everything. And pretty graphs on the display that illustrate nothing, NOTHING!

HEY! My computer does that! (jacked up disk drive and power supply fan)

I LIKE LITES!!

TandyMan100
January 16th, 2009, 08:48 AM
- does a governement owned computer not have 3 gazillion security interlocks and protection features, sounds like it was named by Burger King, and is being hacked by a teenager with an 8-bit hobbyist computer that probably cost more than his parents could afford to build anyway.



HEY! I LIKE that movie!

Go WarGames!

CP/M User
January 16th, 2009, 12:50 PM
TandyMan100 wrote:

HEY! I LIKE that movie!

Go WarGames!

I like it because some kid with CP/M can hack into some Unix like system! ;-) CP/M Rulz! :-D

barythrin
January 16th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Hey any computer with a modem has lots of potential if they're ignorant enough to hook a $500,000 computer with a diagnostic card or terminal to a phone line for easy access. The best was when they didn't auto logout and you dial in and instantly have a root prompt staring you in the face. I have no idea what kids to these days for fun, but that used to be it.

Actually I know a contractor that was hired for a penetration test over seas. It was a nuclear power plant. They had one of their core temperature control computers hooked into a phone line with running pc anywhere with no password. I won't mention which country, but needless to say that was a mark in the "bad" column, but any moron with a modem could have likely typed "shutdown" and been on the news.

CP/M User
January 16th, 2009, 02:39 PM
barythrin wrote:

Hey any computer with a modem has lots of potential if they're ignorant enough to hook a $500,000 computer with a diagnostic card or terminal to a phone line for easy access. The best was when they didn't auto logout and you dial in and instantly have a root prompt staring you in the face. I have no idea what kids to these days for fun, but that used to be it.

I guess the only fiction in Wargames is the Military's computer system (Joshua) ringing out - however a Military simulation program maybe able to do that if it was written in it's coding I guess!

Perhaps a film about what kids do nowadays which has risk element to it be good. I'm guessing their more into the Virus thingy - a smart kid wouldn't do a deadbeat thing and be merely a hoon - though there's many different kinds of yahoos which do silly things.

I was watching a very interesting documentary the other day which comes from the UK about a whole group of kids brought together - to which their deemed problem kids in an ordinary school. Called The Unteachables - I've only seen the first bit of it - it continues next week, though it could show that people who have trouble learing in a regular school could be taught in other ways. Interesting.

Terry Yager
January 16th, 2009, 09:25 PM
I've never believed in learning disabilities...only teaching disability. Everyone is able to learn.

--T

CP/M User
January 16th, 2009, 10:26 PM
Terry Yager wrote:

I've never believed in learning disabilities...only teaching disability. Everyone is able to learn.

Perhaps I could have a case to argue there - since I was subjected to workers working on the college buildings and upgrading them while I was trying to learn - I was ripped off and failed as a coincidence. The programming teacher I failed from consecutively though was a bore, the programming examples they had were also a bore and I just didn't have the knack to program anyway - unless it was at the fundamental levels of translating programs! Maths has never been my strong point unfortunately - to remember times tables off the chart is a bit different than trying to workout the distance covered of two locomotives going in opposite directions at different speeds!

patscc
January 16th, 2009, 10:34 PM
CP/M User said...Maths has never been my strong point unfortunately
That's probably because your early teachers sucked.
Math tends to go in two *very* broad directions, applied and theoretical.
It's a very different ability, being able to add 2 + 2, versus being able to understand how & why addition works, and is necessary, but yet can't add 2 + 2.

I've crossed swords with several non-college teachers with regards to the nonsense they were trying to teach the kids. I mean, just because you have math Angst is no reason to instill it into the kids you teach.

Who the h**l cares about memorization, anyway ? You can look that up, or plug it in. It's the analytical skills that count.

patscc
P.S. In case any one can't tell, I have english angst.

CP/M User
January 17th, 2009, 12:28 AM
patscc wrote:

That's probably because your early teachers sucked.

Well I wouldn't go to those extremes because I was very slow at picking up maths. At some maths I was very good at from a early age though, so perhaps I needed more of that to get me into the addition, subtraction, multiplication & division. Of those 4 general mathamathical conditions division was the hardest for me to understand mostly because different teachers had different ways of showing the problems on the board (every year I did of primary school I had a different teacher - so that's what makes it difficult) - others had an answer with a remainder on the board. I must have been almost at the end of primary school before I knew what division was all about. Multiplication was also tricky for me at first - unfortunately I cannot remember which grade I was in - though I remember taking the times tables everyday at school (I have a feeling it was in the 3rd grade) & for a long time I was trying to perfect my 2 times tables, once I knew it inside out I went upto 3,4,5 & 6 times table in a short period of time. 7 & 8 have always being the hardest for me though. 9,10,11 & 12 are bees knees though! :-D

Being a slow learner though, I had a special teacher very early in my Primary School days either the 1st or 2nd grade, so I eventually got some knack out of maths - though unlike some people who do maths in their heads and write down the answer, I merely write it in. Long multiplication was all written in for me - so I probably had less problems answered compared someone who can see the numbers in their head and write the answers in their book - to make it seem farer schools would always ask everyone to show you working out the answer as you go (I guess that way if someone was wrong you could at least see it!) :-D

Math tends to go in two *very* broad directions, applied and theoretical.
It's a very different ability, being able to add 2 + 2, versus being able to understand how & why addition works, and is necessary, but yet can't add 2 + 2.

I've crossed swords with several non-college teachers with regards to the nonsense they were trying to teach the kids. I mean, just because you have math Angst is no reason to instill it into the kids you teach.

Who the h**l cares about memorization, anyway ? You can look that up, or plug it in. It's the analytical skills that count.

patscc
P.S. In case any one can't tell, I have english angst.

Well I dare say I use memorization a lot!! Not particularly with maths, though in places I work generally particularly as a volunteer when seperating native species from exotic species. It's a recognisition thing by connecting yourself with the characteristics of what's foreign and with me after a while if I've seen a lot of it, I can see more of it and remove it. And because I'm good at it makes for a very effective approach to weed management - there's times though when the bush looks too good and at first seems very daunting to find an exotic. So yes, I do care about Memorization a lot in that respect!

patscc
January 17th, 2009, 12:50 AM
CP/M User said...seperating native species from exotic species

I admire that. I've long since decided that my safest approach to nature is to keep my hands in my pockets. Recently I went on a nature hike (dragged...kicking and screaming...) and the guy leading it would look, point, 'Oh, that's a ....' or '...and that's like the last thing we saw, except...'
I think it's cool, right, nature, but unfortunately I just don't 'grok' it. The only plant I've managed to keep a live for a while is a fern. Apperantly they thrive on periods of forgetting to water, followed by frenzied dunkings.
I've a terrible memory. Hence my appreciation for analytical... :)
In school, I had a terrible time with languages. Grammer was okay, but the vocabulary killed me.
By the time I finally had an idea of what country was where in the world, it all changed :(

patscc

Terry Yager
January 17th, 2009, 01:31 PM
I've never been able to grok much math either...at least not beyond counting my money, or what proportions of booze go into a good dry martini. You know, useful stuff. I was told that it was a learning disability, but I still believe that the the 'teachers' were just unable to address my p'ticular learning style. It's much easier to reverse it and blame their own shortcomings on the child.

--T

CP/M User
January 17th, 2009, 02:07 PM
patscc wrote:

I admire that. I've long since decided that my safest approach to nature is to keep my hands in my pockets. Recently I went on a nature hike (dragged...kicking and screaming...) and the guy leading it would look, point, 'Oh, that's a ....' or '...and that's like the last thing we saw, except...'

I reckon it helps a lot to have grown up in the bush. I always remember days like that too, though because I grew up in the bush it's like "OMG, I remember this plant from when I was a kid!" - perhaps even more impressive that since I'd moved 250km from where I was and to see a plant growing here which existed up in the bush where I grow up was perhaps more impressive!

I think it's cool, right, nature, but unfortunately I just don't 'grok' it. The only plant I've managed to keep a live for a while is a fern. Apperantly they thrive on periods of forgetting to water, followed by frenzied dunkings.

Our area of Australia tends to have the beauty of when a plant is established it'll survive on the rain it receives. Obviously though different plants in different areas which have higher rainfall, swamplands, creek or river beds or riparian areas (areas which become inundated with water and then dry up), need more water. I guess because I was questioning everything I saw when I was young and travel around a bit, I used to see all different kinds of bushland and compare it to the one at home. So perhaps it was inevitable I had some sort of path to follow from when I was growing up! :-D

I've a terrible memory. Hence my appreciation for analytical... :)

My memory isn't terrible great on the short term things - but for some reason things come back to me over time - I like to hope it's useful things to remember and not some piece of garbadge which I wanted to forget.

In school, I had a terrible time with languages. Grammer was okay, but the vocabulary killed me.
By the time I finally had an idea of what country was where in the world, it all changed :(

I've always been a culprit for repeating myself on paper, using too many words, I guess I should have pickup a microphone and talked instead, though I'm not a great talker and try to be funny or silly - guess that's my way of getting along with people. I've met a few stiff upper lips in my time though, which are the hardest group to like me - if people have a slight sense of humor I can usually win them over! :-D

CP/M User
January 17th, 2009, 02:20 PM
Terry Yager wrote:

I've never been able to grok much math either...at least not beyond counting my money, or what proportions of booze go into a good dry martini. You know, useful stuff. I was told that it was a learning disability, but I still believe that the the 'teachers' were just unable to address my p'ticular learning style. It's much easier to reverse it and blame their own shortcomings on the child.

One good thing I was good at maths was decimal numbers! A few people had problems with it though - maybe because I was good on a Calculator and Decimal Numbers were easier than Fractions to do on a Calculator - I could work them out in my head once I could see the point in it! I was terrible at Fractions - particularly when the teacher was writing stuff like 5 & 3/4 on the board + 10 & 1/2. With Fractions it tends to be more about how it's taught - what it's useful in - the more you can show the purpose to practical fractions - the better it becomes. I remember when I was doing my Computer studies after Year 12, lots of people in the class were asking what this is good for? It's a good question because they were trying to see the purpose of teaching it - if it's isn't useful then there's no point to use it in future! :-D

I guess I was terrible as a kid though cause the teacher would come in with a carrot - cut it in half and say I've got two halves a carrot & I'd probably say you've got two carrots! :-D